patrick.net

I heard if you do it, you'll get a whooping.

The worst part of all this is, that even vaccinated kids can be killed by this plague of anti-vaxxers.

No vaccine is 100% effective. You depend on herd immunity to achieve good results. If herd immunity is no longer in play, then suddenly you're little Suzie who DID get the vaccine but it did NOT give her enough reaction to protect her, comes into contact with anti-vaxxer Patient Zero and dies from it. Ooops so sorry!

We should sterilize these people so the stupidity is erased from the gene pool.

Gentle Readers,
I read that a pertussis epidemic has been declared in Washington state.

Whooping cough has a highly effective vaccine. Has the United States become so much an anti-science-New-Age-superstitious-no-sex-ed-Intelligent-Design-faith-healing-I-don't-mind-killing-my-children-because-I-am-a-stupid-moron that we no longer understand the PROVEN danger of diseases?

Whooping cough? Really? Maybe instead of making and promoting drugs like Viagra for anyone that wants it, we should require a world-view-coherence-exam to purchase Viagra. The exam score would be expressed as a Rationality Quotient. Any individual who fails this test three times will receive an IF designation on their drivers license.

IF = Idiot Fucktard.

They will then be treated accoringly by the rest of us.

Regards,
Roidy

P.S. I have just one more thing to add: Europe. Goddamn Europe is going to ruin us all with their extend-and-pretend horseshit. At least the Good Citizens of the Euro-zone no longer believe the European Politicos anymore. They refuse to face facts and write down unsustainable sovereign debt obligations. Instead, I keep hearing about Austerity. Oh, yes. That will fix everything. Austerity and the Gold Standard will reduce the velocity of money, peoples standard of living, de-stabilize governments, PROMOTE TERRORISM, and generally fuck it all up. What we are being told is that a diarrhea-filled baby diaper is a wonderful, tasty, nutritious burrito. Do not ask what that yellow stuff that looks like Velveeta is. No, just don't.

Oh, you want Austerity? You think it will solve all the worlds problems and halt the spread of toe nail fungus? Get a clue. It's too late for that. Greece Austerity didn't work anymore than mark-to-any-smelly-armpit-standard-I-want-accounting-now leave-me-alone-to-blow-myself-up does.

I present Jamie Dimon's JPM. Doubling down on a bad derivatives bet. You watch. The risk assessment/accounting activities will be deemed blameless - after a while. Nothing wrong here. Move along.

This is SO godamn tiresome.

Roidy says

I don't get it. The vaccine is free.

People don't trust a government that lied about WMD in Iraq, lied about torturing in Gitmo, and lies every single day. Part of the consequence of the utter dishonesty of our government is that people don't believe it when it tells the truth.

According to official CDC data the likelihood of death after contracting whooping cough is 0.108% (sources below)

That is a very, very, very small risk, even if you are unfortunate enough to become infected with pertussis (remember, most people will NOT become infected with pertussis so the likelihood of actually dying from pertussis is much, much, much smaller than 0.108%).

And let us not forget that there are known risks associated with all vaccines. CDC lists the following side effects for the Dtap vaccine (which is the preferred mode of vaccination today).

Fussiness (up to about 1 child in 3)
Tiredness or poor appetite (up to about 1 child in 10)
Vomiting (up to about 1 child in 50)
Seizure (jerking or staring) (about 1 child out of 14,000)
Non-stop crying, for 3 hours or more (up to about 1 child out of 1,000)
High fever, 105 degrees Fahrenheit or higher (about 1 child out of 16,000)
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm#dtap
Summary of Notifiable Diseases, United States, 1997 November 20, 1998 46(54);1-87
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056071.htm#00001910.gif
Summary of Notifiable Diseases, United States, 2002 April 30, 2004/51(53);1-84
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5153a1.htm
Summary of Notifiable Diseases, United States, 2006 March 21, 2008 55(53);1-94
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5553a1.htm
Summary of Notifiable Diseases, United States, 2008 June 25, 2010/57(54);1-94
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5754a1.htm

Compare that with the likelihood of death due to the effects of smoking (which is at least 1.2% or roughly ten times greater that that of a person who is currently infected with pertussis) and it seems that your outrage is perhaps better directed at the disease of smoking which is arguable much more preventable. And your campaign to end smoking is much more righteous than forcible vaccination with a substance that is known to cause long term seizures, coma and permanent brain damage.

Even second hand smoke is known to cause significant morbidity and mortality.

http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCauses/TobaccoCancer/secondhand-smoke

"Secondhand smoke can cause harm in many ways. Each year in the United States alone, it is responsible for:

An estimated 46,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are current non-smokers
About 3,400 nonsmoking adults die of lung cancer as a result of breathing SHS
Worse asthma and asthma -related problems in up to 1 million asthmatic children
Between 150,000 and 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections in children under 18 months of age, and lung infections resulting in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations each year"

Where is your outrage? Are smokers assuming more risk and posing a greater risk to others than people who avoid vaccination? The data speaks for itself. Perhaps this data is new information to you?

Will you now talk about the stupidity of smoking, rather than wasting your time on pertussis?

Your outrage is misdirected at best.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/health_effects/effects_cig_smoking/#definition

By the way Roidy I agree with your original premise. America is in fact going nuts. The only question is, who is immune to the insanity?

If you get most of your information from mainstream media, social media and so called experts...

In other words if you are like most Americans...

are you at risk of being brainwashed?

Vaticanus says

That is a very, very, very small risk, even if you are unfortunate enough to become infected with pertussis (remember, most people will NOT become infected with pertussis so the likelihood of actually dying from pertussis is much, much, much smaller than 0.108%).

And let us not forget that there are known risks associated with all vaccines. CDC lists the following side effects for the Dtap vaccine (which is the preferred mode of vaccination today).

Gentle Reader,
You don't get it. Pertussis is dangerous. There may be no deaths in Washington state. Still, try Portland, Or. Two children dead. Note that 50% of the kids with this must be hospitalized. Whooping cough is nothing to fool with, by the way.

As far as vaccine risks go, the real risks are from the disease.

Regards,
Roidy

How many people die and/or become sick of because of cigarette smoking annually? And how many from pertussis? Your outrage is misdirected at best. When is your campaign against smoking going to begin? Or are you more interested in denigrating people who have a different world view than actually saving lives?

Prevent 100 people from smoking and you probably saved at least one life. Vaccinate one hundred with dtap and you might feel good about yourself but you also may have given someone a serious and/or debilitating disease. And chances are dtap'ing 100 people didn't save a single soul.

Like I said your outrage is misdirected.

is there any chance ... maybe ... just a slight chance ... that the open border invasion brings about this kind of thing?? I ask because here in central cal we have a scare per year about some long-ago beaten disease making a comeback in the schools, and the source is La Raza de la Sur.

Anti-vaxxers (and anti GM idiots) are just as bad as global warming denialists.

Kevin says

and anti GM idiots

What's wrong with GM? They make fine automobiles. ;-)

Someone that "feels" it is possible for man to change the global climate, but not man's fault for allowing the spread of disease into his area by reduced border vigilance, has a very odd view on man's power and ability. Some people may even call them stupidassed anti-American pink-o greenies. I would never call them that, only some people would.

Bap33 says

Someone that "feels" it is possible for man to change the global climate

Global warming is not based on feelings, Bap. It's based on facts.

Yes, there's a lot of debate over how much warming will happen and the eventual consequences, but the basic premise is settled fact at this point.

Bap33 says

Someone that "feels" it is possible for man to change the global climate, but not man's fault for allowing the spread of disease into his area by reduced border vigilance, has a very odd view on man's power and ability. Some people may even call them stupidassed anti-American pink-o greenies. I would never call them that, only some people would.

Please never speak about science again.

wthrfrk80 says

Global warming is not based on feelings, Bap. It's based on facts.

sure the climate changes (up and down) on Earth, as well as all other planets, but MAN does not / did not cause any change to Earth's climate. Period.

Bap33 says

sure the climate changes (up and down) on Earth, as well as all other planets, but MAN does not / did not cause any change to Earth's climate. Period.

Do you "feel" your above assertion is true? Or do you have objective (outside of yourself) evidence that your assertion is true?

Bap33 says

sure the climate changes (up and down) on Earth, as well as all other planets, but MAN does not / did not cause any change to Earth's climate. Period.

So you ignore science except when it fits with your world view or supplies the toys you rely on. OK.

Cherry picking the evidence is a great tactic. It works for the Young Earth Creationists.

It's moronic to refuse vaccinations for life-threatening illness. Mumps, Measels, Rubella, Polio - get the damn vaccine.

However, for the common non-life threatening illnesses, like influenza and chicken pox, my kids will be taking a pass, unless there's some special reason for them to get it.

Anybody seen the Merck commercial for the Varicella shot? It actually twists the clinical evidence with weasel words to make it seem like having the shot reduces the chances of getting Shingles. All Clinical evidence points in the other direction.

Also, some studies have shown the vaccine is only about 50% effective - granted those are outliers (NH daycare study), but other studies have it in the 70-80% effectiveness range. So 1 in 5 vaccinated kids will get chicken pox even with the vaccination. Plus, you need boosters, and that's always been a stickling point, especially for boosters in late teen/adult years. People forget. Adult booster campaigns aren't very effective. And as everybody knows, adult chicken pox is much more deadly (and painful, and potentially dehabilitating). Getting it naturally as a child confers lifetime immunity in just about everybody.

Regarding Shingles
Shingles is more deadly than chicken pox, often more painful, and often chronic.

the higher number of shingles cases could continue in the U.S. for up to 50 years; and that while death rates from chickenpox are already very low, any deaths prevented by vaccination will be offset by deaths from increasing shingles disease. Another recent peer-reviewed article authored by Dr. Goldman and published in Vaccine presents a cost-benefit analysis of the universal chicken pox (varicella) vaccination program. Goldman points out that during a 50-year time span, there would be an estimated additional 14.6 million (42%) shingles cases among adults aged less than 50 years, presenting society with a substantial additional medical cost burden of $4.1 billion. This translates into $80 million annually, utilizing an estimated mean healthcare provider cost of $280 per shingles case.

Goldman's study goes on to say that the "Booster Effect" from contact with those carrying chicken pox declines as more people are immunized. In other words, the more people that are vaccinated against chicken pox, more adults will get shingles.

Life's a bitch. Everything is a tradeoff. Based on the odds, I'll get out the Calamine Lotion in order to give my kid better odds against Shingles later.

Vicente says

No vaccine is 100% effective. You depend on herd immunity to achieve good results. If herd immunity is no longer in play, then suddenly you're little Suzie who DID get the vaccine but it did NOT give her enough reaction to protect her, comes into contact with anti-vaxxer Patient Zero and dies from it. Ooops so sorry!

That and children who are too young to have had the opportunity to get the vaccine are not only unprotected but also higher risk when they do get sick.

Bap33 says

is there any chance ... maybe ... just a slight chance ... that the open border invasion brings about this kind of thing?? I ask because here in central cal we have a scare per year about some long-ago beaten disease making a comeback in the schools, and the source is La Raza de la Sur.

Travel helps transport disease and there is a significantly larger amount of "legal" travel that is bringing diseases back to the US.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/health/story/2011-10-21/Unvaccinated-behind-largest-US-measles-outbreak-in-years/50852098/1

Regardless of how diseases are traveling to the US outbreaks are caused by people not vaccinating their children.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Tony Manero says

America is possessed by neomedievalist jesufascists. These freaks believe that Obama stepped off of a space craft powered by the koran and is in league with satan to transform the USA into an extraterrestrial caliph controlled by Osama Bin Laden and Jane Fonda, Obama's parents.

Most of the country can't read beyond the ability of a fourth grader and think Bill O'Reilly is the smartest guy in America.

I'd give a fuck if I haven't already planned on eating these fucking people.

LOL

Fucking EPIC!

Dan8267 says

People don't trust a government that lied about WMD in Iraq, lied about torturing in Gitmo, and lies every single day. Part of the consequence of the utter dishonesty of our government is that people don't believe it when it tells the truth.

I agree the duplicity of the government is a major factor. The government has been corrupted by corporate interests, so it will always lie to the little people if one of the campaign contributors tell it to. Congress, the courts, the president can all be bought and effectively ignore the law. People feel betrayed, so when the government tells them the truth about vacines, they think drug companies told them to sell another lie so that they could make a buck. So long as government is the mouth piece for corporations and banks, American civil society will pay the price of that collusion, including innocent babies.

futuresmc says

I agree the duplicity of the government is a major factor.

Government is REPRESENTATIVE of "The People".

Who are "The People"

Mitt Romney says "corporations are people too, my friend". And REALLY big people at that, blocking out the sun big.

And you mammals scurrying around in the grass, what are you doing? Pushing your way into politicians offices? No, mostly you write a letter once in a while and tune back into Dancing With The Stars.

We get exactly the representation we deserve.

Vicente says

We should sterilize these people so the stupidity is erased from the gene pool.

Wow, I hope you are kidding. This site is about the freedom of thought... don't believe what the FED, NAR, government tells you about housing. But, on the topic of vaccines, you do want people to believe what the government, CDC, WHO, scientists tell you?

So, it's subjective.... And on a subjective topic, you want to sterilize people that don't agree with you? Wow.... Are you so sure that 40 years down the line, we are not gonna discover something dangerous with Vaccines? After all, during the middle ages, "officials" were so sure of leeches' medicinal powers that they used it on themselves. We call it ignorance... they call it all they understand at the time. Vaccine is all we understand today.

And you want to sterilize people for this? You would've burned Galileo at the stake for proposing earth is round.

rockyroad says

And you want to sterilize people for this? You would've burned Galileo at the stake for proposing earth is round.

No I would have sterilized the backwards priests plainly denying the science laid out for them.

Just as anti-vaxxers go beyond "mistrust" of government, and well into anti-science paranoia. The case for vaccination could not be clearer scientificially speaking.

I am engaging in hyperbole however and not planning on forcibly sterilizing anyone..... at present.

Vicente says

The case for vaccination could not be clearer scientificially speaking.

Really? Aristotle believed in Spontaneous Generation as a form of reproduction. This is Aristotle, the guy that invented the Scientific Method! Thomas Aquinas & John Locke believed in the theory of "blank slate", which later turned out to be an incorrect theory of childhood development. Einstein believed so much in the Static Universe, he calculated it into his theory of relatively. Now, it's accepted that the universe is expanding.

These are giants of science! And they were wrong. And you are so sure Vicente says

The case for vaccination could not be clearer scientificially speaking.

Now, now... it's the Marin hot tubbers that you have to worry about. See Personal Belief Exemption data here. Also, avoid Waldorf Schools...

EBGuy says

Now, now... it's the Marin hot tubbers that you have to worry about.

Yeah this lady is clearly a Marin hot-tubber:

Vicente says

And REALLY big people at that, blocking out the sun big.

Or building a sun blocker.

That was a great episode.

Hurry get your vaccinations but don't look at real statistics.

From the FDA's own website:
Why Learn about Adverse Drug Reactions (ADR)?
Institute of Medicine, National Academy Press, 2000
Lazarou J et al. JAMA 1998;279(15):1200–1205
Gurwitz JH et al. Am J Med 2000;109(2):87–94

Over 2 MILLION serious ADRs yearly
100,000 DEATHS yearly
ADRs 4th leading cause of death ahead of pulmonary disease, diabetes, AIDS, pneumonia, accidents and automobile deaths
Ambulatory patients ADR rate—unknown
Nursing home patients ADR rate— 350,000 yearly

2k12 says

Hurry get your vaccinations but don't look at real statistics.

Those statistics would mean a lot more if they were compared to statistics covering serious injury and death prevented by drugs. That after all would be putting the "real statistics" in perspective.

To me 100k dead a year from Adverse Reaction to drugs is completely unacceptable and validates that people should educate themselves to what they are being told to take. Furthermore people should be worried about the thousands of lives lost to this problem(Adverse Reaction to Drugs) and not whether someone didn't get a vaccine.

2k12 says

To me 100k dead a year from Adverse Reaction to drugs is completely unacceptable and validates that people should educate themselves to what they are being told to take.

Yes, I agree that people should educate themselves. Yes 100k dead seems like a lot and what if that was compared to 2 million dead if the drugs were never taken?

Where are the statistics for the 2 million dead if they never took the drugs?

2k12 says

Why Learn about Adverse Drug Reactions (ADR)?

Apples & Oranges

Vaccines & Drugs

Oh wait, you are looking to inflate your statistics right? At least science does it's best to accurately document it's weakness. If I take an aspirin and die of brain cancer next year, is it because of the aspirin? HPV vaccine for example 71 deaths reported of people who had taken Gardasil. In none of those cases however could the death be positively linked to Gardasil. Case closed.

This whole anti-vaxxer nonsense stems from one guy in England who wanted to side-swipe existing vaccines to push his own cures. His work was eventually found to be full of holes and his bias should be obvious, except to paranoid delusionals who based a semi-religion around a fraudulent kernel.

2k12 says

Where are the statistics for the 2 million dead if they never took the drugs?

I made it up to illustrate how 100k can seem like a lot, but it might not be when viewing the alternative. I don't know how many lives are save by drugs, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Oh, and....

http://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

Vaticanus says

About 3,400 nonsmoking adults die of lung cancer as a result of breathing SHS

THAT's rubbish. Most SHS studies fail to control for the most important factor: Non-Smoking Spouses may have been multiyear smokers themselves, but gave it up (most commonly: Wives of Male Smokers who quit during pregnancy, but might have smoked for a decade or more prior). Smokers are more likely to marry other smokers.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/wAfKYWianso

There are plenty of good reasons not to smoke without SHS.