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What to look for during an open house?


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2012 May 20, 2:46pm   12,321 views  22 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (55)   💰tip   ignore  

From a comment posted by "New renter" in San Jose:

I'd like to see a section with concise advice on potential problems with houses that one may be able to discover during an open house and how to do so. Things like:

Old plumbing
Copper pipes attached directly to iron (usually found at water heater)
Aluminum wiring
Out of plumb walls
Foundation problems
Insufficient water runoff around house
Historical floodplain and liquefaction zone
Crime
Insect problems (I hear the Argentine ants in Foster City are particularly bad)
Termite damage
Mold
Dryrot
Uneven floors
Rotted gutters
Sticking doors
Sound transmission (e.g. one can't listen to TV at a reasonable volume in separate room without disturbing the rest of the household)
HVAC issues

etc.

Many of these are issues that should come up in a proper home inspection but it'd be nice to be able to screen for these and other items well ahead of that point. Bonus points for advice on potential severity and costs to fix.

#crime

Comments 1 - 22 of 22        Search these comments

1   Patrick   2012 May 20, 3:04pm  

The first thing you should ask is "How much would this house rent for?"

Once you know that, you know the upper limit of what the price should be. Use my calculator to get an estimate of the rent-equivalent price.

If the price is so high that you could not rent out the house and cover all expenses of owning it, just walk away and don't even waste time inspecting it.

If you could cover all expenses by renting it out, good, then here are a few more things to look at:

roof damage
see if you can open all the windows
taste the water from the tap
see if the shower drains well, even when the sink is also draining and the toilet was just flushed
turn the heat and AC on and off

Ask if there are any liens on the property.
Ask about community or association rules about pets, trucks, etc.
Google the address and the owner's name. Check Facebook for them.
And if you're really serious, go personally meet the neighbors and ask them about the house.

Do not believe anything any realtor says. To them, you are a piece of stupid meat already tantalizingly close to springing the trap just by being in the house. Any truthful word they say might alert you to the trap.

2   bubblesitter   2012 May 20, 3:30pm  


The first thing you should ask is "How much would this house rent for?"

@patrick,

I have no trust in these people. They will have no idea what the thing will rent for - They are simply interested in their commission cuz rent goes to owner and they get nothing.

3   FortWayne   2012 May 21, 1:02am  

Past due maintenance.
Code violations - when we bought we had to move the water heater outside.
Popcorn ceiling - it's good amount of work to get rid of it.

Chinese Dry Wall

http://news.consumerreports.org/safety/2009/03/chinese-drywall-corrosion-health-problems-sulfur-odor.html

4   HEY YOU   2012 May 21, 2:53am  

I can't believe how ignorant people can be about such a large investment.
(If one can call it that).
We can TEXT,TWEET,FACEBOOK IT & know every STAT. of every sport on the planet & yet know very little about our shelter.

I JUST LOVE THE "APPEARANCE" OF OUR NEW HOME!!!

5   Leopold B Scotch   2012 May 21, 3:28am  

Press the HVAC and Hot Water systems during inspection as best you can if the house has been sitting for a long time. Ideally, get a short term guarantee on those systems as part of the negotiations.

Just saw a situation where a buyer inspected and bought in cooler weather in March, found the AC to be broken in May with the hot weather. Same house found the hot water heater to plunk out a week into regular use. Was good for the short bursts during inspection, but the constant use exposed it quickly.

Fortunately they bought before the ping up in prices this spring, and were still feeling good for what they paid despite having to sink $2k into the HVAC / H2O heater.

6   MsAnnaNOLA   2012 May 21, 3:33am  

FWIW Be very suspicious of any extremely recent renovations or additions to the property. Or anything that seems out of place.

What am I talking about:

Big new rug covering the hardwood floors may hide damage.

When I bought my house they had put insulation not on the deck of the attic, but on the roof rafters. They hid the fact that the house needed a new roof from me with this tactic and the fact that I stupidly used the real estate agent's inspector. Never use the real estate agent's people for anything. Walk the property with the inspector and ask him what he is writing down for everything. He can't change his opinion later if he has already told you something.

They also had put new paint on many things in that house. It hid the age of the house. I knew the age but rusting pipes were hidden with bright new white paint.

If a house is vacant look for signs of Meth in the house. I never knew about this in the 90's when I bought but have heard of this since and it is very scary. You can google what to look for.

Look for dimpled paint on walls, ceilings near window. Water is your enemy.

Touch everything yourself. I was in a condo I almost bought doing an inspection. I touched the window sill. It looked fine, but it was rotten. Literally when i touched it it felt like a sponge. Not a good situation. The inspector did not catch this either. He gave it an all clear.

If it is a condo get the condo documents ahead of time if you can. These can be a deal breaker. The condo I almost bought was under insured by thousands and thousands. If my neighbor there had burned their house down I would have to come up with thousands to rebuild their house. They also had a clause that you would have to pay 10% interest on any assessment you did not pay within 30 day. 30 days is very short when there is no cap on what the assessment might be.

Keep in mind that with a condo or any shared ownership, it is as though you are going into business with people you don't know. Be wary of a condo with no cash on hand. Be wary of cheap condo associations that will let your investment literally fall down around you.

Sticking doors or doors that don't close is a sign of foundation trouble or moisture trouble. Having said that an older home with uneven floors can be just fine. My house had a variation of 4 inches front to back, but it had settled around 50 years before closer to when it was built. Look for new cracks or cracks that have been covered recently.

Good luck. Don't trust anyone.

Get a separate foundation and roof inspection if you can particularly in a place where foundation problems are many. Foundations and roofs are very expensive.

7   FunTime   2012 May 21, 3:54am  

Do people ask to see a house "unstaged" before buying? I think that would be a funny thing to do. People spend a bunch of bucks to stage houses because it's shown to increase the selling price.

8   Leopold B Scotch   2012 May 21, 4:00am  

FunTime says

Do people ask to see a house "unstaged" before buying? I think that would be a funny thing to do. People spend a bunch of bucks to stage houses because it's shown to increase the selling price.

[UPDATE -- wait -- i just re read your comment and see I responded to a different question, that you understood everything I said... I don't know who would LET there house be seen unstaged! CRAZY!]

9   FortWayne   2012 May 21, 4:04am  

HEY YOU says

I can't believe how ignorant people can be about such a large investment.

I've known people who somehow bought during the high bubble years and were not aware of property taxes at all... at least until they had to pay them.

10   Zakrajshek   2012 May 21, 5:48am  

If the house was built before about 1980 it may have asbestos in some of its materials: popcorn ceiling, drywall, drywall mud, insulation, HVAC system, etc. I was told by asbestos inspectors in my area that almost all houses built around here built before 1976 have it in the popcorn ceiling, and about 50% have it if built between 1977 and 1979. The only way to tell for sure is to send a sample of the various materials to a certified lab for analysis. Remediation can be tens of thousands of dollars.

I can't believe they used asbestos that recently. The practice was outlawed in 1978, but builders were allowed to use up stocks even after that. Watch out for those crumbly old popcorn ceilings. Nobody needs mesothelioma.

11   Passerby   2012 May 21, 10:39am  

As if there wasn't enough to keep in mind --

http://styledstagedsold.blogs.realtor.org/2009/07/16/5-signs-your-listing-may-have-once-been-a-meth-lab/

The comments are worth a look as well.

Check out the garage too. Look for chemical staining on the floor, odd electrical wiring.

Meth contamination is just as big a problem, even if a lab wasn't present.

Agreed, Patrick. As inconvenient or awkward as it might be, talk to the neighbors if you're serious! My grandmother lived next door to a house that was being rented to a bunch of users. Even at 90+ years old, she could tell you what was going on. It happens in good neighborhoods too.

12   investor90   2012 May 21, 11:39pm  

Here are more to add to your list:

I check the history of building permits---situs address/APN number

I try to find out the name of the owner using real estate records

Once I get the name of the owner, I run it through the county Grantor Grantee index.

I run the names of the Realtor-listing agent AND owner through the Megans law data base--- It is known that many agents mat be on probation for criminal offenses like child rape and murder.

I run every property through Redfin and Zillow.

I Google the address and APN number and look at ALL RESULTS..

I Google the keywords "situs address of property" AND arrested and police and DRUGS and suspect and the name of the listing agent .

I use the city directory or other database to get names of nearest neighbors. I Google each of their names to see if they are rapists or thieves. Once I get some tidbits on any of them...I look for their telephone numbers and other addresses and relatives. I call them up, asking if THEY also want to list their house. I use the same telemarketing scams that I read here. Once they take a breath from screaming profanities at me because they think I am a Real - Tard I try to find out WHO lived at the house for sale---WHY they are selling it----and tell the neighbor that their house is worth ten times what it is. I try to get them to look around and see all the millions of dollars their house is worth. Once they sound interested--greedy, I get rude to them and tell them to f$ck off ! we don't want your dump listed it will only bring down house values- This will guaranty they will; visit any open house and start screaming about the dirtbag Real A Tors or reveal the REAL reasons that the house is for sale. The key is THEY WILL BE NEGATIVE AND PISSED OFF at everybody!

Repeat wash and rinse with each neighbor....this will assure that house prices will remain stable.

I have heard of some buyers who call up County and city Building and Safety and Code enforcement and report the seller for NOT having appropriate building permits. When you see the house listed as 5 bed 3 bath AND the County records show it is REALLY TWO bed one bath on 800 sq ft---VERY common. The Real-tards know this but don't report it and try to sell it anyway. Having a few building inspectors and fire inspectors along with code enforcement and animal regulation ( pet licenses in order?).

If they have an OPEN house, make sure you arrive and talk loudly and "stoopid" and say YOU are a neighbor----and say STOOPOID stuff about the area and the house.. The Realtors will kiss you rear since they want listings more than they want to sell a house---they really want to talk and network and look for new victims---NOT sell.

13   zzyzzx   2012 May 22, 12:26am  

FortWayne says

when we bought we had to move the water heater outside.

Water heater outside???

14   FortWayne   2012 May 22, 12:39am  

zzyzzx says

FortWayne says

when we bought we had to move the water heater outside.

Water heater outside???

If the homeowner isn't insulted by your offer...you didn't bid low enough!!!

It's a code violation out here to have your water heater indoor.

15   chemechie   2012 May 22, 1:43am  

FortWayne says

It's a code violation out here to have your water heater indoor.

What area are you in? Everywhere I've ever lived it would freeze in the winter if it was outside!

16   djp   2012 May 22, 2:56am  

When people like a house they forget all the issues with the house and just want to get the keys to the place and dream of all the happy memories and pride its going to bring them. Just think of how many times this has happened to you

its important to stay calm. :-) you are not buying a car its a really big investment.

17   Philistine   2012 May 22, 4:00am  

djp says

you are not buying a car its a really big investment

A house is not an investment unless you are buying it to rent out for cash flow/rate of return on capital. If you are living in it, it is a living expense.

18   chemechie   2012 May 22, 4:34am  

MsAnnaNOLA says

Get a separate foundation and roof inspection if you can particularly in a place where foundation problems are many. Foundations and roofs are very expensive.

Any structural problems can be expensive, not just foundation problems.
The following are 2 structural problems I saw in houses I looked at:
1. Look at wide doorways, passthroughs, and archways between rooms - if the top is bowed at the middle, even a little, watch out! You may have a damaged load bearing wall. If the room above sags in the same place, you definitely have a problem.
Another house I looked at had a double garage door that had replaced 2 single doors - the inside of the garage did not have any visible beams or reinforcement; the brick exterior above the garage door was cracked in the center.
This house also had foundation problems - with 2 major problems, it was off my list no matter what price they asked!
2. Look at basement walls for cracks and bowing - if the wall bows in or out partway up, or if it has been reinforced with straps, bars, or beams you are looking at serious money and excavation. Repaired cracks between cinder blocks are a small scale sign of the same problem - if the ground outside slopes toward that wall there will be problems someday.

19   MsAnnaNOLA   2012 May 23, 1:55am  

chemechie says

Any structural problems can be expensive, not just foundation problems.
The following are 2 structural problems I saw in houses I looked at:

True that!

My fiancee did something like this to a house he once owned. He removed a column in the living room so he could fit his pool table in there. of course there was sagging. Of course he did not consult a professional. Somehow he was able to unload this house on someone else. He was lucky.

Don't change or remove walls or columns without consulting a professional.

20   bubblesitter   2012 May 23, 2:39am  

Francisco Luiza says

And a lie detector.

To catch 100% lies? That piece of equipment will be severely overloaded and will fail.

21   Dreaming   2012 May 24, 3:54am  

What to look for during an open house??

Foundation problems: dress up nicely for access to crawl space? I've never seen crawl space access to potential buyers during an open house. Not likely.

Historical floodplain and liquefaction zone. Are we supposed to believe that the information is available during an open house? Silly.

Insect problems (I hear the Argentine ants in Foster City are particularly bad). So we are expected to grub around in the dirt looking for Argentine ants or their harmful equivalent? If insects were a problem, the realtor/owner would in all likelihood fumigate some time before open house. Stagnant water ponds are possible but mosquito and vector in all likelihood would have acted previously.

Sound transmission (e.g. one can't listen to TV at a reasonable volume in separate room without disturbing the rest of the household). Right, we are going to turn on a tv in a room and listen to it in another room. Just bring your own tv with you to the open house. Silly

Rotted gutters. They are not always visible from the ground floor. Get on the roof at the open house? Never, unless owners want to void their insurance coverage. Not many seller/realtors would be that reckless. Not likely.

Great article!!??

22   New Renter   2012 May 27, 7:42am  

Silly? I don't think so.

Foundation problems:
Take a walk around the house, look carefully at the foundation. Look for cracks. Look for signs of inadequate drainage away from the house like flat patches, especially any ground sloping TOWARDS the house. Any large trees near the house? Look for roots that may be lifting the foundation or do so at a future date.

Ideally there should be concrete all the way around the perimeter, if not the ground should be sloped away from the house. The gutter downspouts ideally should be extended at least a few feet away from the foundation.

Also, look for recently patched and/or painted areas on the walls, especially if they are stucco. Of you've thought ahead and brought a good level check if the outer walls are plumb. Walk around the inside of the house, do you hear any creaking? Do the floors feel level or do you feel high and low areas? If the floors are smooth put down a ball and see which way and how fast it rolls away.

Liquifaction and floods: USGS has recent maps of the entire Bay Area here: http://quake.abag.ca.gov/liquefaction/

USGS maps for floods here: http://quake.abag.ca.gov/floods/

Special note - if you are interested in a house with a pool in an area with a historically high water table be sure to have the pool thoroughly checked out. Draining such a pool can cause it to pop up a bit out of the ground. This may damage or break the plumbing which is a VERY expensive fix.

Insect problems: Talk to friends and coworkers who live in the area you are interested in. Lots of local people come to open houses too, if you find yourself talking with some ask if they have problems with insects. Look for poorly maintained houses, any insect problems they have (roaches, fleas, ants, termites, etc) are likely to become YOUR problems should you buy within a few houses of that one. Check the house carefully for signs of termites or other boring insects. Fumigation does nothing for existing damage and not all realtors will bother trying to hide damage if it is not easy to do so.

Sound transmission: Smooth floors and walls are great reflectors of sound. A straight or nearly so line of sight from high noise areas (furnace area, kitchen, family room) to the bedrooms is going to channel all that noise straight to the bedrooms. Have a family member chat up the realtor in the closest high noise area while you go check out the master bedroom. If you can hear them even a little you are sure to hear much more late at night while you are trying to sleep.

(This need not be a dealkiller as adding rugs and/or carpet can help kill sound as can adding solid core doors. Its just another expense to account for in your math.)

Rotted gutters. On your walk around the outside check the gutters from underneath. If you can see light through them then they're no good. Rust streaks near the downspout are also signs they are in dire need of replacement.

This is likely to the the most expensive thing you will ever purchase so yes it is in your best interest to do your homework. DON'T take it on faith that this house was built or maintained properly. If you are too lazy to do even the minimum of research then you will certainly reap what you've sown.

Great article? Yes it is and you're welcome!

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