patrick.net

jvolstad, i like to personally thank you for your service to our nation and people.. Thank You!

No.

All of those rights exist by default.

The solider (or rather, the soldier's commanders, since the soldier is just following orders) is the one who takes them away.

Plenty of countries have soldiers that are ostensibly "defending", and have few to none of those rights.

There's no threat to our freedoms at present that a soldier can do anything to prevent.

Cloud says

Thomas, on this site for many it will fall on deaf ears.

Yet they LOVE the government that start the wars.

Which wars did Obama start?

http://nsaneys.blogspot.ca/2012/05/memorial-day-homeless-american-veterans.html

Memorial Day: Tonight, approximately 67,000 veterans will sleep in alleys, abandoned buildings and under bridges because they have no home.

Yeah, try to remember them - with more than lip service and facile platitudes to militarism. Your words show zero support for or appreciation for the people who become soldiers and total support for the lies and mistruths that keep them there far beyond what's necessary. You wont understand that thomas, but you can start by asking yourself "What have I done lately to actually help out a veteran?"

And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech.

I don't understand why there is not a HUGE protest against things like this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR2008113002217.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/026732_military_pandemic_outbreak.html

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

http://www.salon.com/2009/07/25/military_4/

Cloud says

Thomas, on this site for many it will fall on deaf ears

Well that's the world we live in, full of contempt and cynicism. If the attitude that is ascendant today existed 1942-1945, we'd be living under Nazi-ism or Communism.

Bigsby says

Which wars did Obama start?

Libya
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/01/13/obama-sending-us-forces-to-libya/

Uganda
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/obama-sends-100-us-troops-to-uganda-to-combat-lords-resistance-army/

Yemen
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0511/US-sends-troops-to-Yemen-as-Al-Qaeda-gains-ground

If you include drones then Pakistan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/23/us-drone-militants-pakistan-afghanistan

Troop movements might include Israel
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=250249

And Australia
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/world/asia/obama-and-gillard-expand-us-australia-military-ties.html?pagewanted=all

Yeah he might not be starting "wars" like bush did but drones kill.

I have done multiple tours in The War on Drug users, and they even awarded me with a Purple Kush

Stay strong my brothers, the current admin continues to double down on both stupid and evil. Keep up the good fight

"I don't understand why there is not a HUGE protest against things like this"

Because the VAST majority of Americas are too busy watching American Idol or some other equally brain-dead TV show to realize those things are even going on, the mainstream media isn't making a point of emphasizing that those things are going on or their significance, and a large percentage of Americans wouldn't realize the significance of those things even if they knew of them.

As far as what Chris Hayes said about the use of the term "heroes," I agree completely with what he was brave enough to say: "I feel uncomfortable about the word because it seems to me that it is so rhetorically proximate to justifications for more war. Um, and, I don't want to obviously desecrate or disrespect memory of anyone that's fallen, and obviously there are individual circumstances in which there is genuine, tremendous heroism: hail of gunfire, rescuing fellow soldiers and things like that. But it seems to me that we marshal this word in a way that is problematic."

And, BTW, I'm retired military and had I ever been put very seriously in harm's way, I would have been fighting for my own life and the lives of my friends fighting by my side, not for "God and Country." That would have been the very last thing on my mind unless I was actually on US soil defending US soil from foreign invaders. But that hasn't happened in a major way since, what, 1812?

kentm says

"What have I done lately to actually help out a veteran?"

I give every year to the wounded warrior foundation..
step up and YOU can give !

And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech.

You are again assuming that our military are some mindless drones-killing machine without a conscience .. thats pretty disrespectful of you.

What can they do? Military people are not allowed to protest or to disobey orders. They can be shot on the spot for refusal to obey.

When the 1% orders them to kill or imprison us for using our freedom of speech, they must obey those orders.

"Which wars did Obama start?"

Yemen, Pakistan, unknown others.

Kevin says

No.

All of those rights exist by default.

The solider (or rather, the soldier's commanders, since the soldier is just following orders) is the one who takes them away.

Plenty of countries have soldiers that are ostensibly "defending", and have few to none of those rights.

There's no threat to our freedoms at present that a soldier can do anything to prevent.

Patrick,
I nominate this post from Kevin as one of the stupidest posts on Patrick.

I appreciate and am grateful for the service of those in our military.

Bap33 says

I nominate this post from Kevin as one of the stupidest posts on Patrick.

My guess is that you don't understand what he's saying.

The last part might have been the hardest to understand, but I think he means that the only CURRENT real threat to our freedom comes from within, that is our politics, and our current somewhat corrupt system.

If we were ever to become a fully fascist dictatorship, rather than the plutocracy/corporatocracy we have now, the military would still be in the service of that government. I think that's what Kevin meant.

Hence the term "at present." And remember, "soldier" is a generic term that refers to soldiers of any country's military, and yes they are almost always all about following orders.

This in no way invalidates righteous fights for freedom in the past or the future by American soldiers.

Even the founding fathers spoke of risks from within (expect a comment from Abe about the federal reserve and sound money etc). Hence our well thought out 3 branches of government.

The so called Citizens United ruling was an abomination, and is in my view one of the biggest current risks to our freedom. Others would cite the war on terror and some of the liberties we have lost as a result of that.

What can they do? Military people are not allowed to protest or to disobey orders. They can be shot on the spot for refusal to obey.

LOL ! Your completely lost and pretty much paranoid !

And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech.

No, the soldiers will be obeying lawful orders from the commander in chief, the president of the united states. A civilian who will be the one taking away our rights.

Remembering some of my former ASA (Army Security Agency) comrades.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/JdgqgsQhui4

thomas.wong1986 says

It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.

It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.

It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.

It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.

If I were a woman, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to vote in the US, not a soldier
If I were a black man in the south, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to vote in the US, not a soldier
If I were Gay or Lesbian, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to marry in the US, not a soldier
If I were not a land owner, it was demonstrations that gave me the right to vote in the US, not a soldier

If I were a southerner, it was a soldier that burnt my town to ground
If I were a Native American, it was a soldier that burnt my village to the ground
If I were a Kent state student, it was a soldier that killed me
If I were a Japanese American, it was a soldier that interned me

Happy Memorial Day

Kevin says

All of those rights exist by default.

Ha! Get real.

It's only the second ammendment that gives any of the other rights.

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.

And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech.

Patrick, do you think our men and women in the uniform would follow or refuse such orders? I guess that would be a good question for jvolstad.

marcus,
I do not claim to be a good reader. But, that dudes position is based on fairy dust, in my opinion, and my nomination stands.

folks .. the "RIGHT" was granted by God - not man or a paper written by man, or a weapon. Your ability to enjoy the RIGHT in safety and freedom is granted by laws that are enforced by American Warriors. "Protestors" are only able to do so in safety and feedom due to American Warriors. In areas were there is no American Warrior - like China or Africa - the RIGHTS granted by God are still there. The trouble is there is no safety or freedom for those who try to enjoy their God given rights. They can speak out freely, just as we do, only they will be killed. You take your enjoyment of your God given RIGHTS for granted, and even worse, you think some man or some document or some protesting hippy made them secure. On that hogwash is the entire liberal/progeressive anti-American, anti-Christian agenda built.

The political monster (all sides) is what is wrong in America.
The twisted minds that come from laziness, largess, perversion, drugs, and the other indicators of an easy life are what is wrong in America. Things have been so good for so long that people invent crap to have a bitch about, or do things to themselves to make the life harder.

We wasted the greatest American True Grit DNA in WW2. We lost most of what was left in Korea and Nam. Right now the meat grinder in the land of sand is removing a large portion of what little True Grit DNA this country has left. We will soon be left with a large pile of limpwristed liberal/leftist/communist/progressive/elitist minded perverts, dim-witted hyper-breeders that do not have a hint of patriotism toward anything beyond their selfish wants, and the over-educated drugged up pukes that buy-off the pink-o's in black robes that make the laws to keep the three anti-American, anti-Christian, groups powerful. In my opinion.

We need to rebuild the family inorder to rebuild America - so we need to end the educational system as it stands and offer education that is free of the liberal bias found in class rooms populated by over-educated zelots.

bob2356 says

No, the soldiers will be obeying lawful orders from the commander in chief, the president of the united states.

The commander-in-chief being controlled by the top 0.1% who own him...

thomas.wong1986 says

It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.

Ever see "The Hidden Valley"?

thomas.wong1986 says

It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.

See "Alien and Sedition Acts"
And maybe not the US, but see "Iraq"

thomas.wong1986 says

It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.

Kent State.

It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

Homestead, Pullman, Ludlow Massacre. Striking workers got shot at by US soldiers. Strikes were routinely ended by the US Military.

Also think of the Bonus Army - when soldiers killed veterans.

Egypt, North Korea and Chad have soldiers - how free are they?

The soldier works for the top 0.1% in any society. It's always been that way throughout history.

The "People's Liberation Army" crushed the folks in Tiananmen Square.

Thomas Jefferson:

"There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army."

thunderlips11 says

Thomas Jefferson:
"There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army."

And slavery too. But of course Jefferson had no problem with slavery since he benefited so much from it.

Jefferson was a total hypocrite.

Barbequing at the beach in memory for fallen and live soldiers is laughable. If we really cared about veterans, we'd abolish these unproductive holidays, make everyone work these days, and donate either the profits and or at least all the taxes earned on these days off(memorial/veterans/columbus/presidents'/etc...) to fund underfunded vet services.

Cloud, it must be nice to live in a black/white world.

US Soldiers are all Good.
Liberals are all Bad.

In your world, one can't have a nuanced opinion about anything. Thou art either with us or against us.

The guys who stormed the beach at Normandy are Heroes. The National Guardsmen who fired on unarmed veterans in DC in the 30s weren't. Capt. Calley was a butcher. WO Thompson was a hero.

If you want to thank the guys most responsible for stopping Hitler, thank a Russian. 80% of Wehrmacht casualties happened on the East Front. If you want to celebrate the guys who gave the most in WW2, thank the USAAF. The 8th USAAF took more casualties than any other US force in WW2. The Merchant Marine too, but oops! Not armed forces, so I guess going to Davey Jones locker to deliver Beans, Bullets, and Black Oil to fight the war after being torpedoed by a Jap Sub doesn't count, since they weren't soldiers.

That's the real world. In Black/White world, the 101st paratroopers in Market-Garden were just as heroes as Capt. Calley. Sorry, I don't see it that way.

thunderlips11 says

If you want to thank the guys most responsible for stopping Hitler, thank a Russian. 80% of Wehrmacht casualties happened on the East Front. If you want to celebrate the guys who gave the most in WW2, thank the USAAF. The 8th USAAF took more casualties than any other US force in WW2. The Merchant Marine too, but oops! Not armed forces, so I guess going to Davey Jones locker to deliver Beans, Bullets, and Black Oil to fight the war after being torpedoed by a Jap Sub doesn't count, since they weren't soldiers.

Don't forget the Japanese american regiment 415. The most highly decorated regiment in the history of the USA, despite their loved ones being in the American equivalent of a concentration camp.

thomas.wong1986 says

It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.

The entire list is IMO built on logical fallacy.

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Attempting to claim entire credit for "freedom to protest", by setting up a false dilemma that it's either soldiers or "hippies" well we know which is the "right" answer there. The "freedom to protest" in the U.S. at least was written into the Constitution by politicians during peacetime with not much significant standing military present. In other countries such things came into being as recognized rights without necessarily involving soldiers presumable killing anyone who disagreed.

bob2356 says

And now that US troops can be deployed on US soil against US citizens, it looks like soldiers will be the ones that take away all our rights as well, to protect the 1% from anyone using freedom of speech.

No, the soldiers will be obeying lawful orders from the commander in chief, the president of the united states. A civilian who will be the one taking away our rights.

I thought they were sworn to defend the constitution, not the president.

burritos says

Barbequing at the beach in memory for fallen and live soldiers is laughable. If we really cared about veterans, we'd abolish these unproductive holidays, make everyone work these days, and donate either the profits and or at least all the taxes earned on these days off(memorial/veterans/columbus/presidents'/etc...) to fund underfunded vet services.

Don't be silly. As long as we keep shopping we can't be defeated!

Cloud says

I would rather be a prisoner of war in ANY American camp than any camp we have ever faced.

*cue Vince Dicola's "Final Fight" from Rocky IV

Cloud says

Yeah, the Japanese were raped and tortured and thrown into ovens.

Stupid F'ing Libs.

I would rather be a prisoner of war in ANY American camp than any camp we have ever faced.

Liberals suck.

You should really watch the HBO series The Weight of the Nation.

I'm still wondering who JESUS would kill & for what reason & what caliber handgun would he'd carry today?

Yeah dude its something magical about American soldiers that causes the us to have "freedom". That's why no other country has freedom.

jvolstad says

Remembering some of my former ASA (Army Security Agency) comrades.

Yes, we also had some very good people here in Santa Clara back in the day .. Navy P3 Pilots/crew/ ground maintance ... flying out of Moffet Field.. They were doing 24/7 365 days a year.. always there watching your back! God Bless 'em

http://www.youtube.com/embed/3CaAgODDiRI

Off topic, I know, but... re:

HEY YOU says

I'm still wondering who JESUS would kill & for what reason & what caliber handgun would he'd carry today?

I'm reminded of this...