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God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.


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2012 Jun 1, 9:39am   7,126 views  17 comments

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God to Jesus. I just condemned the human race. Now go die to save them.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/YoHP-f-_F9U

http://www.youtube.com/embed/4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/embed/rqP_fjBkwxc&feature=related

I think that the notion that punishing the innocent instead of the guilty perpetrator is immoral. Be it a willing sacrifice as some believe with Jesus or unwilling victim.

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

I agree with scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own righteousness as well as our own iniquity and that God cannot be bribed by sacrifice.

Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Psalm 49:7
None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

I believe as I do because I believe that the first rule of morality is harm/care of children.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

Do you agree that the notion of substitutionary atonement is immoral and that God’s first principle of morality is hare/harm and that this would prevent him from demanding the death of his son?

Regards
DL

Comments 1 - 17 of 17        Search these comments

1   freak80   2012 Jun 2, 1:40pm  

Well thankfully God doesn't really care what you think. ;-)

2   freak80   2012 Jun 2, 1:41pm  

Greatest I am says

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

Sure, the other moral option was to give every human what he/she justly deserves: eternal punishment.

3   Greatest I am   2012 Jun 2, 9:53pm  

wthrfrk80 says

Well thankfully God doesn't really care what you think. ;-)

Opinion and not knowledge.

How do you know this to be true?

Or is that just your own hate showing?

Regards
DL

4   Greatest I am   2012 Jun 2, 9:56pm  

wthrfrk80 says

Greatest I am says

I also think that God, who has a plethora of other options, would have come up with a moral way instead of an immoral and barbaric human sacrifice.

Sure, the other moral option was to give every human what he/she justly deserves: eternal punishment.

If we justly deserve it, then why would God punish another innocent party?

That is not justice and completely immoral.

You go ahead though and try to profit from God's murder of his son. That is the moral thing to do. Not.

Regards
DL

5   MisdemeanorRebel   2012 Jun 3, 3:02am  

If the Jewish Carpenter Zombie takes the punishment for our sins on himself, aren't we avoiding personal responsibility?

Also, how does hanging on a cross for a while encapsulate every possible nasty thing (really nasty, not just eating Meat on Lent) any human has ever done?

6   lostand confused   2012 Jun 3, 5:16am  

LOL! It was just a motivational story for the times. Back then the Romans were crucifying people in large numbers and they were extremely strong and ruthless.

One victim rising from the dead and being the saviour helped the "resistance" to organize around. Two thousand years ago, such tales were believeable. The funny thing is the Romans took over Chrisitanity when they couldn't beat it and made it their own-the old adage, If you can't beat it, join it. Rome is the seat of the Catholic church and the Pope.

So now you have billion+ people totally unrelated to the original area still beliveing it and adding their own versions. They are still trying to use it to explain modern scientific discoveries .

7   freak80   2012 Jun 3, 2:00pm  

Greatest I am says

Opinion and not knowledge.

What have all of your posts been? Opinion or knowledge? So far I haven't seen any of the latter from you...

8   Greatest I am   2012 Jun 4, 12:53am  

wthrfrk80 says

Greatest I am says

Opinion and not knowledge.

What have all of your posts been? Opinion or knowledge? So far I haven't seen any of the latter from you...

I see you ignored my question.

You did not like your own answer, that would have been knowledge to you, and try to deflect.

Honesty is not your strongest pursuit I guess and yes, this last is opinion.

Regards
DL

9   HEY YOU   2012 Jun 5, 5:13pm  

If the definition of GOD is ALL KNOWING, ALL LOVING & ALL POWERFUL & this is not someone's belief then I wonder if they are worshiping a lesser god.

10   Greatest I am   2012 Jun 6, 12:39am  

thunderlips11 says

If the Jewish Carpenter Zombie takes the punishment for our sins on himself, aren't we avoiding personal responsibility?

Also, how does hanging on a cross for a while encapsulate every possible nasty thing (really nasty, not just eating Meat on Lent) any human has ever done?

Homo Economicus. A Legendary Creature, like Bigfoot, claimed to exist by Pseudoscientists.

Thomas Paine, in Age of Reason, wrote:
If I owe a person money, and cannot pay him, and he threatens to put me in prison, another person can take the debt upon himself, and pay it for me. But if I have committed a crime, every circumstance of the case is changed. Moral justice cannot take the innocent for the guilty even if the innocent would offer itself. To suppose justice to do this, is to destroy the principle of its existence, which is the thing itself. It is then no longer justice. It is indiscriminate revenge.

This single reflection will show that the doctrine of redemption is founded on a mere pecuniary idea corresponding to that of a debt which another person might pay; and as this pecuniary idea corresponds again with the system of second redemptions, obtained through the means of money given to the church for pardons, the probability is that the same persons fabricated both the one and the other of those theories; and that, in truth, there is no such thing as redemption; that it is fabulous; and that man stands in the same relative condition with his Maker he ever did stand, since man existed; and that it is his greatest consolation to think so.
Emphasis mine.

So not only is the killing of an innocent man immoral, but it shows that the redemption allegory being used is that of a financial debt. Which is an interesting parallel to the practice of purchasing 'pardons'.

[It is] not good that the man should be alone ; I will make him an help meet for him. (Gen. 2:18) KJV Story book

Free will to me is the ability to make a choice without coercion.
A choice made while under coercion, (especially under threat of pain and suffering), is not a freely made choice, ergo it is not free will. In fact there is a name for it; it's called extortion and it is a criminal offense precisely for the reason that it is not a free choice but a forced one.

"Extortion (also called shakedown, outwresting, and exaction) is a criminal offence which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person(s), entity, or institution, through coercion. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence is sufficient to commit the offense." Wikipedia

"Test all things"
1 Thessalonians. 5:21

No noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

Regards
DL

11   MisdemeanorRebel   2012 Jun 6, 1:16am  

Greatest I am says

No noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a so called son just to prove it's benevolence.

http://www.outreachjudaism.org/FAQ

The third question is audio that explains that blood is not atonement. Blood Sacrifice is for minor or unintentional "sins". For example, if you kill somebody, no number of burned goats will purge you sin in Judaism.

12   Greatest I am   2012 Jun 6, 1:35am  

Jews and Gnostics have always outthought Christians.

That is why both are hated by them.

Regards
DL

13   Tenpoundbass   2012 Jun 6, 4:27am  

Greatest I am says

I see you ignored my question.

What is it with Patnet libs, you cats are the only folks I know that demands an answer, to every general comment you make.

14   Greatest I am   2012 Jun 7, 4:44am  

As compared to those who cannot or will not answer simple questions as in normal conversations.

Regards
DL

15   ArtimusMaxtor   2012 Jun 18, 9:58pm  

The bible makes no sense. If you ever read original Hebrew writtings you would be shocked at how real they are. That is it makes sense to Hebrews. It fairly logical stuff. Don't eat port 7 nights a week your teeth will fall out is the conclusion. Or no incest your kid will walk funny and bark.

Abraham was blessed so was the world. They didn't need Jesus for anything. So what curse did he lift. The Adam story dosen't make a bit of sense. So how could the place be blessed and cursed at the same time. The NT even poses that question. Deal is they wrote this stuff in Rome. See they wanted to walk off with the Abrahams blessing story. Thats what they "tried" to do anyway. It carried to Germany created division. The history of this entire deal is on paper. No one can really go back prove or say. Untill you get to place like I did that has religous writtings dating back to the 1300's

16   StoutFiles   2012 Jun 18, 11:02pm  

Support of Bible:

Jesus and God are basically the same person. God made rules and we broke them, so Jesus (God) comes to Earth and says "I forgive you" even though you're going to kill me. It's the perfect way to give everyone a bunch of guilt and make them follow your teachings.

Against Bible:

God is all-knowing and all-powerful, yet is constantly changing his mind. He put Adam & Eve in the garden knowing that they would eat the apple, and is angry that we would want knowledge. It's all very twisted.

Conclusion:

The Bible has a lot of good stories in it that remind us what it is to be a good human being. The problem is that people have constantly used the Bible to gain power and collect money, which is wrong. Take the good morals from the Bible and ignore the crap that comes with it.

17   ArtimusMaxtor   2012 Jun 18, 11:54pm  

Exactly Stout. The bible makes no sense at all as it is written. Primarly the writtings were intended for historical information and rules and regs for the Hebrew people. Everything else is addtion. All religions are funded, Church buildings even donations by the "well healed" with loans and cash. That includes the Muslim religion. (Who one might not think they do however its of great benefit to put bad guys up there. Pursue them into countries whole nations that don't know what the hell is going on when they are invaded for their raw material) Catholics who always need cash. Mormons etc. All these guys do need cash. The building and real estate they have to fund is massive. So Religion suits their purpose. They won't make these people stop. Because they are the inception of these religions to begin with. Usury is old. Its been around as long or really longer than any of these religions. Realize its not the politicians screwing around with you. Its the people that finance their campaigns. That make a decsion to lend to those people based on their ability to fool people.

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