patrick.net

From the story:
All around us now is a prevailing anti-intellectualism and hostility to science. Politicized religion is the sheet anchor of the dreary forty-year-old culture wars.

Me:
It is dreary (and infuriating) to hear the Republicans rehash the same tired arguments with ever increasing levels of religious zealotry. The remaining sane members of the GOP must be horrified to see what's become of their political party.

I watched several Gore Vidal videos on Youtube recently and marveled at the intelligence of political commentators Vidal and Buckley, and they hated each other! The days of intelligent political debate are long gone. It seems that the Repubs have been taken over by a bunch of truly mindless drones.

Thanks to Mike Logren for writing this fine piece. Let's hope he can do some good for his party.

This is a gem from the story that rings true in these forums:

I have never ceased to be amazed at how facts manage to bounce off people’s consciousness like pebbles off armor plate.

AlexS says

Now, go call your congressman and ask him the bank account, or location, or premises for that SS "Trust Fund". Just call and ask, and post that number here.
It simply DOESN'T EXIST.
It's the same as Bernie Maddoff's "Trust Fund" - the money has long been spent, and all you have is Bernie's word, that he'll pay up...

You do know that Treasury has the authority to issue bonds, which the Federal Reserve then uses to create dollars, right? Why would you put money in a bank account when you have a printing press?

Bernie Madoff did not have a printing press...if he did he would still be in business..

Ruki says

And besides, the average Joe Swingvoter doesn't even know what the hell 'theocracy' means.

Yeah the Will McAvoy speech would just fly right over 90% of the voters out there, Democrat, Republican or otherwise.
And hell if half of them knew Will was talking about them, the other half would laugh out loud and say "Now Do me! Do me!"

david1 says

ou do know that Treasury has the authority to issue bonds, which the Federal Reserve then uses to create dollars, right? Why would you put money in a bank account when you have a printing press?

Bernie Madoff did not have a printing press...if he did he would still be in business..

Yes, I do realize that, but plz consider two points:
1. The discussion is whether Bubba "balanced the budget". GM could also "balance" its budget by moving pension and healthcare obligations off the books. It's called fraud.
2. Even though the Treasury has the printing press and distribution mechanism through the Fedster-Banksters, it doesn't solve the problem of the default.

Supply of money is inflation. Printing money to pay all retiring baby boomers will cause inflation - more like hyper inflation. That $1,500 SS check won't even buy you a loaf of bread.

Default is not only when you don't pay up, it is also when you pay up in the currency that lost value. It's just another way to default.

By the way, these Social Security Ponzi schemes to fleece the current wage earners with promises to pay them later are even older than FDR, or Ponzi.

I think German Chancellor Bismark pioneered this scheme. Of course the intent was never to help the elderly or poor - it was just to fleece the people more.

As I said in the above post - anyone and everyone who ever believes in government promises deserve what's happening to them - them being currently fleeced - and what's coming to them - the old age with SS checks that won't buy even loaf of bread.

Just ask Russian or Argentinian pensioniers how those government promises worked out for them, and how today with their 100 ruble pensions they must decide whether to buy a quart of milk or a loaf of bread.

AlexS says

Supply of money is inflation.

This is where your premise fails. If this were true, we would be experiencing massive inflation right now in the face of the massive expansion of the money supply in the past 3-4 years. We haven't - inflation is at an all time low.

Inflation is what Austrians hang their hat on, yet in the face a reality, their theory falls flat.

By the way, I should premise this by saying I agreed with you in 2009, bet on inflation, shorted Treasuries, and lost my ass. When that happens a guy starts looking at the reasons why it happened.

Inflation has absolutely nothing to do with the supply of money. Inflation is caused by demand or artificial price controls.

Here is some light reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_curve

david1 says

This is where your premise fails. If this were true, we would be experiencing massive inflation right now in the face of the massive expansion of the money supply in the past 3-4 years. We haven't - inflation is at an all time low.

First of all my "premise" absolutely doesn't fall here. I, nor Austrians ever said that increase in supply of money will immediately reflect in all prices. No. What austrians say is - Inflation is supply of money and prices will eventually go up. Not right away, and not uniletarely. Sooner here, later there, at a faster rate in this sector, at a slower rate in that sector.

So, before writing rebukes, please learn how to read. And to argue with Austrians, read Austrians, not the lame-stream idiots who can't even tie their shoes, who slept through financial crises, and who can't even comprehend what's happening around them.

My last suggestion to you - I won't waste more time on you - is to read Murray Rothbard "What Government has done to Money". In this 3 hour (tops) book read you will learn more about money and inflation than you did in all previous decades of your life.

david1 says

Inflation is caused by demand or artificial price controls.

How come no matter what the artificial prices controls and "demand", I could buy a decent suit with a gold coin 2 thousand years ago, and I can still buy a decent suit with a gold coin today?

But if I tried the same with a lira, or a 1913 dollar, I wouldn't be able to do that today?

Why is it that gold to oil ratio seems to be equilibrium, more or less, depending on the year and technology improvements in mining, but now it takes $100 to buy a barrel of oil, $4 a gallon of gas, or $3 a gallon of milk?

Why has the dollar lost 95% of its value since 1913, was it the "artificial price controls" or the "demand"?

Or was it because Fedster-Banksters increased supply of dollars, and now there are so many dollars chasing few goods?

FortWayne says

Left thinks that big government is the answer to every problem, when in reality most of the problems we have today arise from big government.

Left thinks Obamacare is good for the nation, that is going to be a very rude awakening one day knowing how big government is always beholden to big interests and lobbyists.

Who thinks this? I don't know any left/liberal who does. The Government should be the right size and given the right resources to address problems that individuals will not or should not.

We liberals think that ACA is a nice first step, but Republican in nature. We aren't as partisan as we are logical. I'll take a half a loaf, if it starts to address a looming fiscal crisis.

Well, technically you didn't teach me how to use "jack shit", hence, no "thank you" was necessary. It just never occurred to me that I would have to go outside the forum environment to perform "post searches". Most modern forums have advanced search capabilities built in. I guess I'm just not up to speed surfing ancient backwater venues.

But Hey! Thanks for the heads up!!

rooemoore says

Glad I could teach you how to use Google. No thank you is necessary.

xrpb11a says

Well, technically you didn't teach me how to use "jack shit", hence, no "thank you" was necessary. It just never occurred to me that I would have to go outside the forum environment to perform "post searches". Most modern forums have advanced search capabilities built in. I guess I'm just not up to speed surfing ancient backwater venues.

But Hey! Thanks for the heads up!!

rooemoore says

Glad I could teach you how to use Google. No thank you is necessary.

"It just never occurred to me" is a nice way of saying "I'm a doofus". Anyway, since you are from Roseville, you should be well acquainted on how to navigate backwater venues.

You're welcome.

AlexS says

Why is it that gold to oil ratio seems to be equilibrium, more or less,

http://pricedingold.com/crude-oil/

LOL.

What I see here is Oil being priced anywhere from less than one gram per barrel to over 4.5 grams per barrel, depending on various supply shocks in oil, or speculative bubbles in either commodity. By the way, a when gold decreases from 1 gram per barrel to 4.5 grams per barrel, it has lost 78% of its value. Relative to oil, that is.

AlexS says

Why has the dollar lost 95% of its value since 1913, was it the "artificial price controls" or the "demand"?

Ok Ron Paul. The dollar has lost 95% of its value relative to what, exactly? Itself?

http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/dollhist.htm

It seems to have gained quite of bit of value relative to the pound.

http://illusionofprosperity.blogspot.com/2007/12/historical-real-hourly-wages.html

The dollar is a medium of exchange in its purest form. As long as you are a productive member of society, its value does not matter. As its value (relative to itself) decreases, as long as real wages are increased in lock step with the decrease in dollar value, a productive member of society is not affected. It is only those who wish to use the dollar as a store of value that are affected.

There are ways to store the value of ones wealth without being affected by the decrease in the relative value of the dollar. They are called TIPS, you may have heard of them. They even pay a premium to inflation for the time value of money - all of this simply provides a vehicle to not only store the value of one's wealth (in a risk free medium) but also provide return for the use of this wealth.

Now you are going to lecture me on how the CPI is manipulated and false - save it.

Its the place all Austrians go - all of the empirical data showing their premises are false is either made up or manipulated.

By the way, the dollar has lost 95% of its value since 1913 (again relative to itself) due to the huge increase in demand. Not demand for dollars, mind you, but demand for everything else that can be purchased with dollars. US GDP in 1913 was 36.7 billion. It is ~15 trillion this year. That is over a 400 fold increase. Given that the demand for everything purchased with dollars has increased thusly, a 20 fold decrease in the dollars value has done pretty well...it could be worth 20 times less...

I see.....
So by your definition:

Oliver Knussen is a doofus.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/jun/06/oliver-knussen-fiona-maddocks-interview

Kazuo Ishiguro is a doofus.
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/320772-it-had-never-occurred-to-me-that-our-lives-which

Justin Webb is a doofus.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1366514/Justin-Webb-It-occurred-to-contact-real-dad-physical-impossibility.html

Rihanna is a doofus. ( I may have to grant you that one )
http://dailyfill.com/rihanna-it-never-occurred-to-me-people-would-slam-chris-brown-collaboration-123136

Poor rooemoore!! Such a DoucheBag!!

Wanna give it another shot?

rooemoore says

"It just never occurred to me" is a nice way of saying "I'm a doofus".

You're welcome.

Yeah...since you are from San Francisco, you should be well acquainted on how to navigate backdoor venues....

rooemoore says

Anyway, since you are from Roseville, you should be well acquainted on how to navigate backwater venues.

xrpb11a says

I see.....
So by your definition:

Oliver Knussen is a doofus.

You got me with your cleverness.

"I know! I'll use the google to search for really smart people who have said 'It never occurred to me...'. That'll show rooemoore, the big meanie!!!"

I'm not trying to "get" anybody.
I'm simply learning from your posts, using definitions that you provided.
If you're going to freak out over it, maybe you should not be providing definitions.

rooemoore says

xrpb11a says

I see.....
So by your definition:

Oliver Knussen is a doofus.

You got me with your cleverness.

david1 says

What I see here is Oil being priced anywhere from less than one gram per barrel to over 4.5 grams per barrel, depending on various supply shocks in oil, or speculative bubbles in either commodity

As I mentioned before - the value of commodity fluctuates based on various factors, like extraction technology improvements, demands, etc. With the amazing technological progress called fracking, the price of oil and natural gas fell compared to gold.
Btw, throughout thousands of years gold proved to be the most reliable, stable, and durable commodity for being used as money.

However, no matter how the technology is improved, it won't compete with the ease Fedster-Banksters print money.

david1 says

It seems to have gained quite of bit of value relative to the pound.

You are comparing Fedster-Banksters to their counterparts in Britain. It's like comparing one thief to another. Why not compare dollar's purchasing power to that of Gold? Silver?

david1 says

As long as you are a productive member of society, its value does not matter. As its value (relative to itself) decreases, as long as real wages are increased in lock step with the decrease in dollar value, a productive member of society is not affected.

That's like saying - if I steal or rob you, for as long you are working, you'll be ok, you'll earn back what I took from you. This is the simple message from Fedster-Bankster criminals and their well funded apologists in academia that you copy-pasted here.

Here are two questions to Fedster-Banksters, and their stenographer david1:
1. Even if I am healthy and make good money - is it right to steal from me? For money-counterfeting is precisely that - theft.
2. What if one day I become old, or sick, and can't work? If my money kept their purchasing power, I would be ok. But because you devalued the purchasing power of my money through your printing press, I am forced to scramble, eat Alpo, depend on social INsecurity.

And, while working, just to have a chance at running parallel with your printing press, I have to risk in your Wall Street Casinos. I have to speculate. Just so that I can retire with some dignity.

And that is why, david1, you support an organization that is CRIMINAL.
Also, save time from copying and pasting their worthless excuses - I've read them all, and I laughed at them all.

LOL...

AlexS says

How does graph look, say in late 90s, when Bubba was bombing Sudanese aspirin factory to take Monica off front pages?

AlexS says

2. What if one day I become old, or sick, and can't work? If my money kept their purchasing power, I would be ok. But because you devalued the purchasing power of my money through your printing press, I am forced to scramble, eat Alpo, depend on social INsecurity

For a risk free store of the purchasing power of earned dollars, again, see TIPS.

AlexS says

Here are two questions to Fedster-Banksters, and their stenographer david1:
1. Even if I am healthy and make good money - is it right to steal from me? For money-counterfeting is precisely that - theft.

Using the dollar as a store of value is foolish. If you use your earned dollars and buy TIPS, no value is lost through inflation. That you fail to realize with a growing population and growing economy, currency devaluation MUST occur is not theft. Is it theft when you lose value in a car as it depreciates, though you knew this would happen?

Put down the Ron Paul crack pipe and put your money where your mouth is. Short treasuries if you think inflation is impending. Increase your already overweighted portfolio even more into gold (that your portfolio is overweighted in gold is nearly certain).

You have no response to the parts of my argument that contain empirical data. What say you on the fact that the economy has growth at over 20 times the rate of the devaluation of the dollar? You have no response to the TIPS argument. You have no empirical evidence of your own.

Its all a secret illuminati banking cartel working in the shadows stealing everyone's money. Yeah, that's it.

One other interesting thought: In the face of 95% devaluation of the dollar since 1913, I challenge you to find ONE actual specific example of this (and this only) causing someone hardship. ONE. In order for it to have caused hardship, someone would have had to both purchase only depreciating assets AND store their dollars in a competely interest free instrument. Like holding 1914 dollars(reserve notes) themselves in their mattress, in their rented place of residence, while purchasing nothing else with their earned 1914 dollars that would have any value today.

Except if they did have a mattress full of 1914 reserve notes, they would have collectable value. Like these below:

http://www.oldcurrencyvalues.com/largesize.html

Hmm..$1 notes worth at least $25 today....95% devaluation is 20 times...you made out BETTER if you held the paper notes given collectable value. HA.

So if order to see hardship from the devaluation of dollars since 1913, someone would have needed to exchange their 1914 notes for 1915 notes, and 1915 for 1916, and so on, in every year. While living in a rented space. And not working. And not buying any income producing assets. Or any other assets that maintain real value.

Yeah. Find ONE example of inflation causing someone hardship.

I want to add a general comment about people like david1, and other government-socialist propagandists. They hate savers, and they hate old people and retiries. They want for work slaves to work until they can't, and then they want people to die.

Some of this is shown in Fedster-Banksters policy of constantly inflating. Some of this is shown in British health care system - where people over 60 don't get the same level of service as 50 year olds, and 50 year olds don't get the same level as 30 year old.

Another words, if you are young, they'll give you health care, but as you grow older and have less working years ahead of you, level of healthcare diminishes.

Obamacare's death panels is the same concept. Socialism is two things, Slavery while you can work, and Death once you can't.

Arbeit macht frei !

xrpb11a says

Most modern forums have advanced search capabilities built in.

Really? Why? Everyone prefers google. Could you please show me an example.

Not trying to be cute here, I really want to see what one of these modern forums looks like.

AlexS says

You are either a lowly paid Fedster propagandist, or lowly paid college graduate who paid tens of thousands to study Fedster baloney, or Fedster's "useful idiot" - in the immortal words of comrade Lenin

Ah, the ad hominem attack. Helping inferior intelligence feel better about his arguments since 1913.

AlexS says

but visit elderly in this country, pensionieres in Russia, Argentina, Zimbabwe.

The elderly in this country who are struggling fall into one of two camps:
1. They never had the income to save anything, so they have nothing.
2. Their company pension was robbed by a Mitt Romney type Wall street "Financing."

Neither of which have anything to do with inflation. By the way, they take out quite a bit more in nominal SS payments than they put in due to inflation. What I am saying is, infaltion or no inflation, they are in the same boat - relying on SS and struggling.

Hardships in the other countries you mention are not due to inflation, they are due to REGIME or GOVERNMENT COLLAPSE.

AlexS says

Now let's compare his investments to david1 and TIPS... Ok ok, I'll stop laughing now

TIPS is nothing more than a store of value, what you so desparately want gold to be. It is a risk free investment and the return is similarly minimal. Go ahead and use gold as a sotre of value if you want...when it is below $1000 an ounce you won't feel so good about it anymore.

AlexS says

Government does hedonic tricks with "consumer basket" by switching and changing, and announcing the "inflation rate" they made up. Fedsters doubled the supply of money yet the "inflation rate" is only 2%.

There it is, right on queue. Austrians, so predictable.

this forum has a bare bones search feature....

Google is definitely preferable....( THANKS ROOEMOORE THANKS THANKS THANKS)

but most of the civilized world resides in places with searchs like this:
https://www.vbulletin.com/search.php

I guess if everyone makes a mass contribution to Patrick.net, Patrick will upgrade!

marcus says

xrpb11a says

Most modern forums have advanced search capabilities built in.

Really? Why? Everyone prefers google. Could you please show me an example.

Not trying to be cute here, I really want to see what one of these modern forums looks like.

david1 says

There it is, right on queue. Austrians, so predictable.

You can't deny that consumer basket is manipulated. Hamburger, anyone?

AlexS says

Obamacare's death panels is the same concept. Socialism is two things, Slavery while you can work, and Death once you can't.

Arbeit macht frei !

Someone's been to a Sarah Palin rally!

xrpb11a says

but most of the civilized world resides in places with searchs like this:
https://www.vbulletin.com/search.php

Oh, you meant for searching the forum. There really isn't a justification for that at present (in my opinion). I don't know much about it, but I assume that if PAtrick went that route, he would not write the code from scratch, but would be changing to a bigger bulkier behemoth of a canned forum program, and would have to redo a lot of the programming he's done here.

I don't think it's a needed feature. There have been a few times when I was looking for something when such a search would have been helpful, but I can see why it wouldn't be high on Patricks list of things to add, at least not now.

lenar says

You can't deny that consumer basket is manipulated. Hamburger, anyone?

Are you implying the oft-incorrect criticism that the CPI will substitute hamburger for steak if the price of steak rises? This is untrue. Substitutions do not occur across product classes - that is, the CPI will substitute flank steak for filet mignon if filet mignon rises in price to fast but wont go to hamburger. It will switch between grades of ground beef, if neccesary, however.

It should also be noted that if the price of flank steak rises faster than prices of filet mignon, the CPI will substitute filet mignon even though it is higher in price. Substitutions go both ways, you know.

All you need to know about shadow stats and the falseness of those calculations can be seen around 2008/9. Shadow stats reports inflation to be around 2% that year. Meanwhile, oil fell from $140 to $40, housing crashed 10%+, automobiles had the cash for clunkers program, the stock market lost half its value, corn/soybean/wheat/ prices collapsed, etc. All of that and we STILL had positive change in prices? Yeah right.

david1 says

Ah, the ad hominem attack

1. then explain your unquestionable support for the fedster-bankster counterfiters.

2. It's hard to save being between rock and a hard place -
from one end you are squizzed by income, payroll, state, local, sales, property, and other gazillions of taxes and "user fees",
and on the other hand you are squizzed by the Fedster-Bankster inflation tax - which robs you thereafter.

To "Wall street financing" add their Fedster-Bankster buddies.
I already touched on the subject how people, just to stay affloat, are forced to Wall Street casinos. And don't limit it to Mittens, don't forget your goldman sachs buddies - the corzines, blankfields, geitners, paulsons, rubins, etc. It's one team. It's one group. And guess what - we are not IN IT.

Also, not everyone is a CEO of the company - deal with it. But after Fedster-Banksters took complete reign, especially in early 70s when Nixon broke the dollar Gold link - the living standards of Americans became stagnant.
Today's family with two workers has less to show for then family in 70s with only husband working.
Thanks Fedster Banksters!

Hardship in other countries are due to inflation, followed by hyper-inflation. And hyper inflation leads to Government collapse.
So, the only mission of Fedsters right now is to inflate, but not to hyper-inflate.
You see, hyper-inflation causes the complete loss of control, which will result in Fedster-Bankster suicide. I am looking forward to it!

But the root cause is always the same - Government, Socialism, and Socialist money printers.

3. For the last time, and last time only, plz sell your TIPS horsesh1t elsewhere - noone is buying.
I'll take my chances with gold over anything with a government promise.

4. Fedsters are on the record to substitute inferior quality products, or remove products that went up in price from their
consumer "basket". Say... why is gasoline excluded? Why is food excluded?

Where is the Beef?

Go to Costco - steak that used to cost $20 for 3 cuts, is now $45. All in a matter of 2 years.
For examples I can go on and on. In early 2000s You could leave a grocery store with a full basket for $100. Today bring $300.

But hey, we are lucky, because we are still "working"...

AlexS says

1. then explain your unquestionable support for the fedster-bankster counterfiters.

I don't support them. I am merely pointing out to you that your premise that inflation is caused by increasing the money supply is false. Increasing the money supply by the central bank is not the only known cause of nightmares in children, either.
AlexS says

2. It's hard to save being between rock and a hard place -
from one end you are squizzed by income, payroll, state, local, sales, property, and other gazillions of taxes and "user fees",
and on the other hand you are squizzed by the Fedster-Bankster inflation tax - which robs you thereafter.

No its hard to save when you don't make any Money. Rich guys have no problem saving and they pay all of those things you list too...plus are affected by inflation too. They save because they make MONEY. Nothing to do with inflation.
AlexS says

Hardship in other countries are due to inflation, followed by hyper-inflation. And hyper inflation leads to Government collapse.

Read up on that and get back to me. In Zimbabwe, the Mugabe government redistributed land to its associates, the export economy collapsed, then there was hyperinflation. In that order. Effective government-caused market collapse, then hyperinflation.

AlexS says

4. Fedsters are on the record to substitute inferior quality products, or remove products that went up in price from their
consumer "basket". Say... why is gasoline excluded? Why is food excluded

It isn't excluded from CPI. There are other CPI indexes which do exclude food and energy, but not the CPI that SS payments are indexed to.

david1 says

This is untrue.

You must be kidding. Either that, or you grossly misunderstand nature of CPI.
In layman's terms: CPI reflects buying habits. More popular items carry more weight; less popular - less weight.

Hamburgers are getting more popular. It also gets popular to move in with parents (or children, depending on your age), drive low–cost cars and drive them less, possibly due to loss of employment. Cheaper appliances become fashionable. People just spontaneously change their habits, consumer basket is doing great.

By the way, did you know that electronic devices - the once that traditionally go down in price due to technology advancements - are also included these days?

AlexS says

For examples I can go on and on. In early 2000s You could leave a grocery store with a full basket for $100. Today bring $300.

So obvious you are pulling this out of your ass, even SGS doesn't claim this.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

It looks like SGS inflation is between 4-8% from 2002 forward. Lets use an average of 6%, then your $100 is more like $180 today. Nowhere close to $300. How much has your salary increased since 2002?

Come on bro, link something. Do some data analysis, something. Stop speaking in generalities and hyperbole.

Read something besides what "Campaign for Liberty" sends to your email everyday.

lenar says

You must be kidding. Either that, or you grossly misunderstand nature of CPI.

No I understand the CPI. I thought the hamburgers comment was the oft-incorrect crticism of substituting hamburgers for steak.

The rest of what you said is true - though it is not a contradiction from what I said.

The CPI is not a constant utility measure.

Get back to explaining how a measure of consumer spending is manipulated again...

david1 says

Get back to explaining how a measure of consumer spending is manipulated again...

I did. I'll repeat.
More popular items carry more weight; less popular - less weight. Lower-cost items become more popular. CPI misinterprets tanking quality of life for low inflation.

In fact, the hamburger comment was very appropriate.

I don't know how to explain it any simpler.

P.S. I should rephrase that. CPI interpreters mislabel tanking quality of life and call it low inflation

lenar says

CPI misinterprets tanking quality of life for low inflation.

Tanking quality of life? Ok.

1. Houses larger, with better more efficient appliances. (housing, energy)
2. Cars more feature laden, with better economy and reliability. (transportation, energy)
3. Technology? Iphone vs. IBM AT. (Other)
4. Life Expectancy constantly consistently increasing. (Health Care)
5. I recently flew cross country for $180. This is what, like $90 in 1995 dollars? I don't think I flew for that then...in fact I remember paying the same of more for most of my flights then.(transportation)
6. Clothing cheaper, and higher quality.

My '70 mustang 302 conv. gets about 8 mpg. If I drove that thing to work everyday I would certainly be spending more on gas than I do now...

And by the way, driving cars less or moving in with parents or children would not affect prices.

lenar says

P.S. I should rephrase that. CPI interpreters mislabel tanking quality of life and call it low inflation

Agreed.

Basically the CPI interpreters are handed down a task - to produce a certain precent of inflation, and off to work they go....

All this is a typical socialist exercise of fudging numbers.

Substitution, reassign weights and ranks, adding, subtracting and so forth.

Let's say housing goes down - due to market supply/demand. So, they would re-add housing, or rank it heavier. But the fact that the replacement costs of housing actually went up - they wouldn't reflect in CPI index.

They wouldn't reflect the cost of lumber, brick, granite, stone, copper wiring, plumbing, etc. These costs always go up. Cost of insurance also constantly go up, because the replacement costs are up.

OF course the cost of government user fees - passport costs, licensing, tolls - that constantly go up, and doubled or tripled in last few years (especially the toll roads) - are also never included.

> david1

I could dissect most of your examples and explain why it's either not true, or balanced out by double incomes, or marginal. It's irrelevant for the case in point.

As far as the case in point, I repeat: the nature of CPI - to use shopping habits as a single variable in calculation of inflation - provides bonanza of opportunities for misinterpretations and manipulations.

I can afford to not look at my grocery bill. My wife says that it grew a lot in last few years. I trust her.

david1 says

1. Houses larger, with better more efficient appliances. (housing, energy)...

Here you are confusing the productivity and efficiency gains with inflation. Basically there are two forces - the market forces to drive down prices, and government force/ inflation - to drive the prices up.

Yes, computers get cheaper, thanks to apples and dells, they would be even cheaper if not for government money printing.

Now, the car industry is not quiet able to fully negate the government force - cars are getting more expensive. The technology "improvements" nowadays are mostly to comply with government mandates, specific ways government wants you to crash test the car, where to put airbags, etc. Whether this is what customers want is questionable at best. Example - by 2014 every car will require a backup camera - does your Fiat 500 or Smart really, really need a backup camera?

All other examples you provided (iphones, flights, life expectancy) are again, due to market forces.

Southwest found an efficient way to spend more time in Air (now every airline is copying them), and BOeing's Dreamliner eats less fuel than 737. But we are not seeing the savings (price deflation) - again, due to inflation. So, the consumers are not seeing the productivity gains through lower prices, while banksters are enriched.

Imagine if it wasn't for market, wasn't for Apple, Southwest, WalMart, Boeing, Hyundai, where would the prices be today?

david1 - this is exactly why the inflation is the measurement of money supply. Prices are the symptoms of inflation and market productivity gains - two forces working in the opposite direction.

The market force works to help the consumer, to lower prices, to enrich lives. The Fedster-Bankster forces works to harm the consumer, increase prices, and steal and improvish the consumer.

But because Fedster-Banksters are in control of money supply, they have all the wealth to pay people to spread misinformation and Bankster propaganda (people like david1), they have all the power to guide school and university courses to teach how Fedsters are good people who have people's interests in heart (ha-ha-ha).

That's why majority of people coming out of universities are brainwashed and zombified to spit out Fedster-Bankster propaganda about how printing money is supposetly good.

Fortunately many college students nowadays have discovered Ron Paul. Fedster days are NUMBERED.

david1 says

So obvious you are pulling this out of your ass, even SGS doesn't claim this.

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

It looks like SGS inflation is between 4-8% from 2002 forward. Lets use an average of 6%, then your $100 is more like $180 today. Nowhere close to $300. How much has your salary increased since 2002?

Come on bro, link something. Do some data analysis, something. Stop speaking in generalities and hyperbole.

SGS is showing the symptoms (prices going up), while I am looking at the desease (Fedster Banksters counterfiting).
The truth is, in the recession-depression economy, prices should be going down.

The fact that they go up nevertheless tells me that inflation is much much higher than 4-6%.

Also, dollar has been given a little break - by European crisis. People are dumping euros in favor of many things, some of them are dollar and treasury. Once this temporary effects subdues, the dollar will be toast.

But david1, continue looking at symptoms, and you will always be few steps behind...

Help, I'm surrounded by strawmen!

I'm not arguing that inflation doesn't exist. I have argued that money supply does not affect inflation due to liquidity traps.

Then I argue that the CPI is not manipulated. The argument was made for the CPI Interpreters mistaking tanking quality of life for low inflation.

I mock tanking quality of life. Period. Lenar, your dissection of my examples will continue to be based on your false premise, so go for it, or not. Whatever. That you say you could but do not shows laziness. Why would it be manipulated globally? The CPI follows global model for tracking prices...wouldn't there be some government doing it differently?

Bottom line, in order for the models in which I believe the world macroeconomy to function do not require a massive global bankster lead conspiracy of money supply manipulation coupled with manipulation of the inflation measures. These models have decades of empirical data backing them with few empirical contradictions.

In order for the models that Austrians believe to hold, all of this global data must be manipulated.

Which is more likely?