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Californians: Why do you stay?


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2013 Aug 7, 4:06am   46,237 views  174 comments

by Goran_K   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  

Seems like there is a lot of discussion/discourse on here about living cost, and a lot of it comes from people who list California as their home state.

My question is: With housing prices, taxes, business cost, etc so high, why do you personally choose to stay in California?

The average rent in places like North Beach, San Francisco would buy you a 7,000 sqft McMansion in places like Texas, and you may have left over to get a lease on a nice BMW.

So why do you stay?

- Weather?
- Family?
- Job?
- Unsure?

#housing

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1   Strategic Renter   2013 Aug 7, 4:12am  

The weather is not that good. I lived in Huntington Beach it was cold in the summer and we had to have the heating on in the winter. Las vegas is a much better climate with proper summers and mild winters with low humidity.

2   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:14am  

I live in Laguna Beach, and I agree, this Summer has been sort of mild. 68-70 degrees a lot of days. Not to mention a monster marine layer every morning practically.

That being said, I absolutely hated Vegas Summer weather.

3   B.A.C.A.H.   2013 Aug 7, 4:16am  

Goran, are you a "local" kid or did you move to here from somewhere else?

4   nw888   2013 Aug 7, 4:17am  

The weather is nice, and I like the diversity of LA. The mountains are green and there are nice museums etc. Family is a primary reason right now, as we like to be close and it's built in childcare when you need it. I seriously keep talking to my wife about moving to Paradise Valley in Phoenix. Arizona is hot, but has great sunsets, beautiful vistas, and awesome hiking.

5   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:21am  

B.A.C.A.H. says

Goran, are you a "local" kid or did you move to here from somewhere else?

East coaster (New Jersey/New York). Spent most of my adult life in California though.

6   joshuatrio   2013 Aug 7, 4:22am  

1) Weather. It's 65-70 every day. No need for heat or a/c. Little foggy, but worth it.

2) Family - yep, they're here.

3) Bike friendly/Outdoors - trails everywhere, and can get almost anywhere on a bike without having to jump onto the street. Surfing is great as well if that's what you're into.

4) Job - pays much better out here. Cost of living is higher though. But, if you get your salary up where you want it, then move to a cheaper state, you've done well.

5) It's beautiful. Mountains, desert, lakes, oceans (Big Sur), farms, it's a very diverse state with a lot of natural beauty. Every time we consider moving back East - I cringe at the congestion, road systems and number of people packed in on Atlantic side.

7   New Renter   2013 Aug 7, 4:23am  

Family and my wife's job. Without those I'd be in Oregon by now.

8   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:24am  

nw888 says

I seriously keep talking to my wife about moving to Paradise Valley in Phoenix. Arizona is hot, but has great sunsets, beautiful vistas, and awesome hiking.

I hear that a lot from friends (mostly wanting to move to Texas). The sheer amount of home you can buy in Texas compared to SoCal for comparable money is jaw dropping. We're talking multiple acres for sub-$500,000.

In South OC, there are less than 20 properties where you can get a 1 acre plot of land in the $5,000,000 range.

Yet, still, everyone wants to come to CA.

9   zzyzzx   2013 Aug 7, 4:25am  

Goran_K says

this Summer has been sort of mild.

It's been sort of mild in Baltimore, and I think much of the Northeast and Midwest as well. Al Gore was wrong!

10   zzyzzx   2013 Aug 7, 4:26am  

New Renter says

Family and my wife's job. Without those I'd be in Oregon by now.

As bad as it's getting to be in Oregon, would you really want to go there?

11   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:26am  

New Renter says

Without those I'd be in Oregon by now.

Why Oregon if you don't mind me asking?

12   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:27am  

zzyzzx says

Al Gore was wrong!

Yeah, take that guy's nobel prize back. I was freezing putting the garbage cans out last night in August.

13   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:33am  

Check out what you can get in San Antonio:

http://www.redfin.com/TX/San-Antonio/539-Oak-Knoll-Dr-78228/home/48638135

An actual mansion on nearly 2 acres for $650k. It's obscene.

14   RWSGFY   2013 Aug 7, 4:40am  

Goran_K says

zzyzzx says

Al Gore was wrong!

Yeah, take that guy's nobel prize back. I was freezing putting the garbage cans out last night in August.

+1

When kids refuse to go into pool in August because it's too cold an I'm forced to fire up that heater, we have a problem, Al.

15   bmwman91   2013 Aug 7, 4:42am  

Family is reason #1 for sure. I grew up here and have a LOT of family within a 30 minute drive. That's super important to me. I'd also like to remain nearby when my parents are older so that I can make sure that they are well taken care of.

Weather (the total lack of it, actually) is a huge plus. Running, biking, hiking, climbing...you can do it year-round here. World-class climbing is easily within a 4-10 hour drive (Yosemite-Joshua Tree), and there are a number of fun little local crags to boulder at. Being able to bike to work year-round is also a major plus since sitting in traffic sucks. Biking may be slower, but it doesn't FEEL like a commute.

As for jobs, that's a frequent point of contention here. You can move to a handful of other places where houses cost 75% less and you get paid 40% less. So debt to income can look better for sure. It really all comes down to what set of compromises one is willing to live with. Living in CA / SFBA is full of compromises too. As E-Man told me once, the expensive houses here are mostly a pass-through cost; you can use and leverage your higher income here to build equity in a house which usually serves as at least a hedge against inflation. Then someday when you want to retire, you at least have the option of dumping your expensive CA wooden shack and going somewhere cheaper to retire in peace.

16   RWSGFY   2013 Aug 7, 4:44am  

Goran_K says

Check out what you can get in San Antonio:

http://www.redfin.com/TX/San-Antonio/539-Oak-Knoll-Dr-78228/home/48638135

An actual mansion on nearly 2 acres for $650k. It's obscene.

Looks a bit out of scale for the neighborhood:


17   Strategic Renter   2013 Aug 7, 4:49am  

Texas is an awful place. Bad weather high humidity Tornado's and storms. high property taxes and they are all religious nuts who try to stop any kind of adult fun. I lived in Dallas for 5 years and could not wait to get out.

18   nw888   2013 Aug 7, 4:50am  

bmwman91 says

You can move to a handful of other places where houses cost 75% less and you get paid 40% less.

On the flipside, doctors get paid more to work in less desirable areas. So they get cheaper housing and better pay. Wow.

19   nw888   2013 Aug 7, 4:53am  

Goran_K says

nw888 says

I seriously keep talking to my wife about moving to Paradise Valley in Phoenix. Arizona is hot, but has great sunsets, beautiful vistas, and awesome hiking.

I hear that a lot from friends (mostly wanting to move to Texas). The sheer amount of home you can buy in Texas compared to SoCal for comparable money is jaw dropping. We're talking multiple acres for sub-$500,000.

In South OC, there are less than 20 properties where you can get a 1 acre plot of land in the $5,000,000 range.

Yet, still, everyone wants to come to CA.

Yeah it's ridiculous. I'm starting to look at Glendora. You can get large 1 acre + lots, and the commute to work might be 45 minutes if you leave a little early. And on weekends you're close to the mountains, and it's a quick drive to the zoo or museums. Good schools too. Living near the beach in SoCal is not the same as being near the beach in the caribbean. After hearing friends tell me how foggy and cold it is all the time I think I'll pass!

20   zzyzzx   2013 Aug 7, 4:54am  

bmwman91 says

Running, biking, hiking, climbing...you can do it year-round here.

With the proper clothing, this can be done anywhere. I bike year round except when there is snow.

21   MsBennet   2013 Aug 7, 4:54am  

I live here out of habit, since I was born here. I never wanted a house with two acres and 5,000 square feet. Sounds like a lot of upkeep and cleaning to me. I will stay here since my house is steps away from being paid off, and I have a good situation with my job.

I don't know how anyone can say Las Vegas has good weather. You must like it hot. I like everything to be 68 degrees and sunny.

Yeah, I never got my dream home living here.

I would like to check out a few places for retirement, like Nevada, where taxes are lower, but I doubt I will make the move. I have a friend who grew up in a small town in Oregon. From the way he tells it, there are a lot of white-trash type people there. Glad I raised my child where intelligent people live.

22   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 4:56am  

nw888 says

After hearing friends tell me how foggy and cold it is all the time I think I'll pass!

It is foggy and cold, even here in SoCal (worse in NorCal from my experience). Though during July there were a lot of outright sunny beach days, even in the early morning.

That being said, I actually like the marine layer, and the smell of salt water.

Glendora doesn't seem to be badly located. Still close enough to L.A to work.

My friend bought a huge house in Fontana. He's a pharmacist and commutes 5 min to work.

23   lakermania   2013 Aug 7, 4:57am  

The entire 18 member side of my mother's family began their slow exodus to Texas and Colorado starting in the mid90s and they couldn't be happier. But between work and family, I'm stuck here. If the stars ever lined up and gave me an opportunity to move, I'd take it. California still has a lot to offer but in 20-30 years, I don't see how we can keep up our higher quality of lifestyle compared to other more responsible states.

24   Strategic Renter   2013 Aug 7, 5:03am  

I don't know how anyone can say Las Vegas has good weather. You must like it hot. I like everything to be 68 degrees and sunny.

You need to talk to the locals. The strip is hot because it is all concrete. Go a few miles west into summerlin and you will find a green lush landscape that is 10 degrees cooler and an absolute paradise.

25   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 5:05am  

I have a friend living in Irvine right now, he's thinking of moving to Henderson. How is that city?

26   Strategic Renter   2013 Aug 7, 5:10am  

Henderson is nice and it is the second safest city in America. Hundreds of new jobs are coming to that area. The only downside is because it is in the low in the valley it is 5 degrees hotter than summerlin.

27   New Renter   2013 Aug 7, 5:24am  

Goran_K says

New Renter says

Without those I'd be in Oregon by now.

Why Oregon if you don't mind me asking?

Isn't it obvious?

28   New Renter   2013 Aug 7, 5:31am  

zzyzzx says

As bad as it's getting to be in Oregon, would you really want to go there?

I'm unemployed now and the market is full of un- and underemployed people in my field. How much worse can it be?

On the plus side my wife is employed and my family is a bike ride away, so we stay here for now.

29   B.A.C.A.H.   2013 Aug 7, 5:32am  

Family and in laws are number one, two, 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,...dozens... scores...

30   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 5:33am  

New Renter says

I'm unemployed now and the market is full of un- and underemployed people in my field. How much worse can it be?

On the plus side my wife is employed and my family is a bike ride away, so we stay here for now.

What industry do you work in?

31   B.A.C.A.H.   2013 Aug 7, 5:35am  

Goran_K says

(New Jersey/New York).

Goran, it's good you clarified. Almost all the East Coasters I know in the Bay Area are from the east coast of Asia.

32   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 5:37am  

B.A.C.A.H. says

Goran, it's good you clarified. Almost all the East Coasters I know in the Bay Area are from the east coast of Asia.

I actually have family and own property out there, so I'm still sort of tied to that area.

33   New Renter   2013 Aug 7, 5:39am  

Goran_K says

New Renter says

I'm unemployed now and the market is full of un- and underemployed people in my field. How much worse can it be?

On the plus side my wife is employed and my family is a bike ride away, so we stay here for now.

What industry do you work in?

Biotech. Lots of companies in my area too.

34   SiO2   2013 Aug 7, 5:40am  

Weather. I grew up in the midwest, so i've had enough snow and/or high humidity to last me for a lifetime. It's great that in the summer I can plan an outdoor activity, camping, etc, and know that it won't be rained out. And it's great to go biking, hiking, etc in the "winter". Lots are smaller here than TX, but we can use then 300+ days per year. So the net usability is better. I talked to a colleague in Austin who said it was 100+ for many days in a row last summer. To me that's not comfortable.

Yes, with proper clothes one can go bicycle riding in rain, sleet, etc. It's not very fun for me, but for those who like it, that is great.

Goran, for some reason this year and last year seem to be cooler than historic, at least in SJ. So if you recently moved to CA it might be atypical.

Jobs. For an MD or some other job where there's not a local concentration, the opportunities and salaries will be similar across the usa. For high-tech there's definitely more opportunities here. I'm sure we will see posted articles about how silicon valley is doomed, yet the posters are still here. And there are other frequent posters who looked elsewhere, and found that it's better here, even with the drawbacks.

I'm not that excited about having a 5k sq ft house, so that's not attractive. Perhaps sour grapes :)

I like the diversity of the neighborhoods. I can talk to my neighbors and co-workers and hear fascinating life stories from around the world.

35   Goran_K   2013 Aug 7, 5:43am  

New Renter says

Biotech. Lots of companies in my area too.

Yeah I was going to mention that. Did you punch out an executive at your last job? What gives?

36   Patrick   2013 Aug 7, 5:51am  

I'm here for the weather, the jobs, and because my wife and kids and I have all friends here now.

But even more than that, I just love the Bay Area. I was stunned when I first saw San Francisco and still haven't gotten over it.

37   zesta   2013 Aug 7, 5:53am  

1) Diversity. Food, culture, religion, occupations and the different people you meet.

2) Outdoor Recreation - Beaches, Oceans, Mountains, Deserts, Forests. The excellent weather lets you enjoy all of them nearly year-round.

3) Entertainment Options - Music, Sports, Museums, Bars, Arts

4) Weather - Rarely am I trapped at home due to extreme heat, humidity, rain, snow, cold etc.

5) Religion. I don't know if I could send my kids to a school that threatens to teach intelligent design every couple years.

If I could be happy sitting indoors in my McMansion with the A/C on full blast eating food from restaurant chains every night, I might be ok with Texas.

38   New Renter   2013 Aug 7, 6:00am  

Goran_K says

New Renter says

Biotech. Lots of companies in my area too.

Yeah I was going to mention that. Did you punch out an executive at your last job? What gives?

If only.

No its a matter of supply and demand. Too many people competing for the same few jobs. Its also a problem of logistics. We live in SJ but most biotech companies are either further up the peninsula in the unaffordable RBA or in the east bay which would double my wife's commute time.

I spoke with a recruiter a few weeks ago. He admitted the hiring is slow out to the foreseeable future. Most of my former coworkers are under-employed. One a former senior scientist is now a research associate. Another was laid off a few months ago - not sure if he's had any luck yet.

39   Ceffer   2013 Aug 7, 6:09am  

During cannibal anarchy, due to chintzy construction and the fact that Californians are often in the open, flushing, sighting and removing your target with extreme prejudice is a lot easier.

In the rest of the country, with its array of excellent construction, storm shelters, pill boxes and fallout shelters, it requires a much more sophisticated array of smoke bombs, tear gas, flash bangs, bunker busters and heavy, all weather gear to gain on your quarry.

40   New Renter   2013 Aug 7, 6:14am  

Ceffer says

During cannibal anarchy, due to chintzy construction and the fact that Californians are often in the open, flushing, sighting and removing your target with extreme prejudice is a lot easier.

In the rest of the country, with its array of excellent construction, storm shelters, pill boxes and fallout shelters, it requires a much more sophisticated array of smoke bombs, tear gas, flash bangs, bunker busters and heavy, all weather gear to gain on your quarry.

Yet you live in Pleasanton...

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