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One man's ObamaCare nightmare

By zzyzzx follow zzyzzx   2013 Sep 24, 4:39am 15,614 views   106 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/one-man-obamacare-nightmare/

Andy and Amy Mangione of Louisville, Ky. and their two boys are just the kind of people who should be helped by ObamaCare. But they recently got a nasty surprise in the mail.

"When I saw the letter when I came home from work," Andy said, describing the large red wording on the envelope from his insurance carrier, "(it said) 'your action required, benefit changes, act now.' Of course I opened it immediately."

It had stunning news. Insurance for the Mangiones and their two boys,which they bought on the individual market, was going to almost triple in 2014 --- from $333 a month to $965.

The insurance carrier made it clear the increase was in order to be compliant with the new health care law.

"This isn't a Cadillac plan, this isn't even a silver plan," Mangione said, referring to higher levels of coverage under ObamaCare.

"This is a high deductible plan where I'm assuming a lot of risk for my health insurance for my family. And nothing has changed, our boys are healthy-- they're young --my wife is healthy. I'm healthy, nothing in our medical history has changed to warrant a tripling of our premiums.

"Well I'm the one that does the budget,” said his wife. "Eventually I've got that coming down the pike that I gotta figure out what we're gonna cut what we're gonna do, to afford a $1,000 a month premium."

Their insurance company, Humana, declined to comment, but the notice to the Mangiones carried this paragraph:

" If your policy premium increased, you should know this isn't unique to Humana -- premium increases generally will occur industry-wide.

"Increases aren't based on your individual claims or changes in health status," it continued. "Many other factors go in to your premium including: ACA compliance, including the addition of new essential health benefits."

ACA, of course, is the abbreviation for the President's new law, the Affordable Care Act -- which for the Mangiones will be anything but affordable because the law adds a new tax on every insurance policy and requires a list of additional benefits the Mangiones didn’t want to pay for.

Robert Zirkelbach, spokesman for American Health Insurance Plans, which represents insurers,explained that "for people who currently choose to purchase a high deductible, low premium policy that's more affordable for them, they are now being required to add all these new benefits to their policy.

That," he says, "is also going to add to the cost of their health insurance premiums."

#politics

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67   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 27, 6:07am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx says

Homeboy says

Nobody is getting insurance for their whole family for $333 a month

Those people were.

O.K., well they can get insurance for $280 a month under Obamacare, and it's much better insurance. Since Fox Noise conveniently failed to mention their income in the article, I will assume they make $50,000 a year, which is well above the median income in Kentucky. So that's what their premium will be:

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/#state=&zip=&income-type=dollars&income=50000&employer-coverage=0&people=4&adult-count=2&adults[0][age]=21&adults[0][tobacco]=0&adults[1][age]=21&adults[1][tobacco]=0&child-count=2&child-tobacco=0

Obamacare win!

So I'm guessing this is more about rich people whining than it is about the middle class being unable to afford insurance.

68   EBGuy   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 27, 6:34am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx said: When someone goes from paying $333 a month to $965 a month, don't you think that's worse???
As I already pointed out, unless they make more than $94.2k per year they'll get a subsidy. Median household income in Kentucky is $42.2k. For a Silver plan, a median household would pay less than $252 per month. YMMV.

69   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 27, 6:41am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

EBGuy says

get a subsidy.

This comment surprised me. I've grown so accustomed to Homefool's enthusiasm for subsidies and dependence that I tune it out, but to hear it from EBGuy too, reminded me of - to my amazement - the 2012 Gingrich campaign. He kept calling Obama "the food stamp President." It seemed ridiculous at the time, but there you are, telling everyone to go on welfare. BTW, have you read the 60-page instructions and questionnaire to determine eligibility for subsidies? To go on welfare, you may need to answer a lot of questions. Is anyone in your house pregnant? Was anyone ever in foster care? How many hours do you work each week? The IRS would like to know. It wasn't enough for you that the NSA was vacuuming up your e-mails, now you want them to have all your medical and family information too? Why can't you leave people alone who weren't even bothering you?

70   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 28, 5:19am     ↓ dislike (4)   quote   flag        

Guess I'm gonna have to take the amazingly assholish curious2 off ignore for a minute to school him.

curious2 says

This comment surprised me. I've grown so accustomed to Homefool's enthusiasm for subsidies and dependence that I tune it out, but to hear it from EBGuy too, reminded me of - to my amazement - the 2012 Gingrich campaign. He kept calling Obama "the food stamp President." It seemed ridiculous at the time, but there you are, telling everyone to go on welfare.

I don't have enthusiasm for subsidies; I have enthusiasm for healthcare that is affordable and that everyone can have. I believe healthcare should be a basic human right, not a luxury that only the wealthy receive. I think a lot of people agree with me.

I only mention subsidies a lot because you mouth-breathing righttards keep lying and claiming that so-and-so member of the middle class won't be able to afford Obamacare. This is simply false. It is pure bullshit from the Republican/Fox News propaganda machine. If you want me to stop mentioning subsidies, stop lying and pretending they don't exist.

You believe Obama has done too much to help the middle class, while I believe he hasn't done ENOUGH. Wealth inequality continues to grow under his tenure, as do handouts to the super-rich elite on Wall Street. Yeah, it would be great if the playing field were level, and the elite didn't gobble up all the wealth by getting interest-free loans from the Fed and somehow making millions of dollars by computer-trading on info they got a few nanoseconds before everyone else did, in a way that the common man doesn't even UNDERSTAND, let alone have an opportunity to participate in. But sadly, that is how the economy is run. You may prefer a system where the middle class doesn't get health insurance and have to die in the street, but I do not. If you had a realistic alternative to this "dependence" of tax credits, that would be great. But you do not. Going back to the old system where only the wealthy can get decent healthcare is NOT an option, in my opinion. Doing nothing is not an option. And pretending that everything was o.k. before is DEFINITELY not an option.

71   freak80   ignore (4)   2013 Sep 28, 5:28am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't know why curious2 insults you so much, homeboy. You two seem to have similar views.

72   marcus   ignore (10)   2013 Sep 28, 5:34am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Homeboy says

Wow, you really believe that there's a "liberal" media bias, don't you?

Amazing.

Science, facts and truth have a well documented liberal bias.

No really,... this is true, and only when you understand this well will you understand what liberal bias really means.

73   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 28, 5:43am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Homeboy says

I don't have enthusiasm for subsidies; I have enthusiasm for healthcare that is affordable and that everyone can have.

Then instead of advocating relentlessly for a system that raises costs artificially and puts people on subsidies for the benefit of the revenue recipients, look at cheaper systems. Americans pay the lowest prices in the world for OTC drugs, where they can buy whatever they want, but Americans pay the highest prices in the world for the Rx sector where costs are shifted through insurance and subsidies. You refuse to acknowledge that Obamacare was written by the same people who created the problem, and for the same reasons. The only priority that you seem to acknowledge is that you can continue on SSRIs and now shift the costs onto other people.

freak80 says

I don't know why....

We're old enough that I won't simply say "he started it;" that is actually true but insufficient. I get exasperated with Homeboy's trolling for the reasons I explained in my earlier comments: the insistence on mandatory dependence, the dishonest disregard for others' opinions, projecting onto them things they never said, etc. Different people come to internet fora for different reasons, and Homeboy's pattern is to troll for fights, it's almost all he does. Also, he illustrates perfectly the reasons behind the legislation: physically dependent on toxic placebos, he is raising the costs to levels that he cannot afford, and taking subsidies from wherever he can; he doesn't even benefit from them, his pushers do. If you can think of a way to express that more gently, without insulting him, without blaming him (even though he's an adult and ought to see the consequences of his own actions), I would appreciate it. I did resolve to be nicer and I did try unilaterally to improve the dialog with homeboy, but it does take two, and eventually I gave up. Also, if I may observe, while I respect that you maintain a high standard of civility, you have also a low threshhold for perceiving insults; accurate and legitimate criticisms are not insults.

74   marcus   ignore (10)   2013 Sep 28, 5:45am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

SO Obamacare hasn't even kicked in yet, and there are stories of how terrible it is for the common man. Why am I not surprised ?

If that turns out to be true, and the insurance companies can't figure out how to make it work, well go to single payer, and then we'll be able to deal the true drivers of cost increases.

Everyone selling health care will have one and only one payer to deal with, and they can negotiate. But ultimately medicare or whatever they call that entity will say, "this is what we pay for that procedure, or test, or surgery. Period. "

This is how most the rest of the developed world does it.

The people wanting to go to doctors who charge more can get their special policies that pay for amounts above what medicare pays.

This isn't rocket science people.

75   BoomAndBustCycle   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 28, 7:02am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

I don't believe it... I'm sure he can shop around and find cheaper insurance. The insurance company will go out of business that charges obscene rates.

zzyzzx says

Homeboy says

The question was, how does Obamacare make those specific problems I itemized WORSE? I see you are unable to answer the question.

When someone goes from paying $333 a month to $965 a month, don't you think that's worse???

76   BoomAndBustCycle   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 28, 8:05am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

www.coveredca.com

If this website is accurate.... It is fairly straight forward insurance. I make too much to get any subsidy.. But i could insure my wife and child for about $440 via a Platnium plan from HealthNet with no deductible. Considering my work plan charges me just under $1000 a month to add a spouse and dependant... (I know ... Outrageous) I will be switching them to affordable care as soon as it is available.

77   bob2356   ignore (4)   2013 Sep 28, 8:16am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

curious2 says

Americans pay the lowest prices in the world for OTC drugs, where they can buy whatever they want, but Americans pay the highest prices in the world for the Rx sector where costs are shifted through insurance and subsidies.

You keep repeating this, but haven't put out any proof it's true much less establish causation. I don't see any OTC meds being any more expensive overseas than anything else in places I've travelled. America has the cheapest gas, clothes, and food in the world too. There's nothing special about OTC meds prices.

Americans pay the highest cost for Rx because of abuse of the patent system, advertising directly to consumers, and other countries negotiate drug prices on a national basis after carefully evaluating cost vs benefit. In other countries many expensive new drugs don't provide enough new benefit to justify the addition expanse and aren't available to prescribe. In the US they are advertised heavily and patients demand them. Many expensive on patent drugs are dropped altogether for generics as soon as the patent expires and aren't available to prescribe either.

Most universal health care countries have subsidized drug prices. The consumer doesn't see the true cost any more than than US patients do. Don't bother to point out your old friend Mexico either. The government regulates drug prices there also, something you never seem to mention.

curious2 says

Then instead of advocating relentlessly for a system that raises costs artificially and puts people on subsidies for the benefit of the revenue recipients, look at cheaper systems.

So you advocate a national federal drug buying program that negotiates costs and decides availability based on cost benefit studies like most of the rest of the world uses to keep costs down? I would be fine with that if there was campaign reform so the lobbiests weren't writing the laws. Otherwise it won't be any better than what we have right now. America is screwed, plain and simple. The political system doesn't work now that corporations own all the politicians.

78   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 28, 8:27am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

You keep repeating this, but haven't put out any proof it's true much less establish causation.

I provided links for you, maybe your narcotic addled memory forgot. As for causation, it's a fact, you can fight with yourself about what causes it. I don't share your toxoplasmotic need to fight, so your attempts to bait me are not appreciated. Go fight with Homeboy about Obamacare.

bob2356 says

America has the cheapest gas, clothes, and food in the world too. There's nothing special about OTC meds prices.

It's funny how you deny something but then acknowledge it - maybe you forgot again. Anyway America does not have the cheapest gasoline or food, for example Mexico has cheaper prices for food and other countries have cheaper prices for gasoline. America does have the cheapest OTC drug prices, which you now seem to acknowledge.

79   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 28, 9:11am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

There was a guy who tried to implement healthcare reform WITH mandated cost controls. His name was Bill Clinton. The republicans would not allow the law to pass. Great idea in theory, but you have to consider what you have the political will to accomplish.

80   bob2356   ignore (4)   2013 Sep 28, 1:59pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

curious2 says

I provided links for you, maybe your narcotic addled memory forgot.

curious2 says

It's funny how you deny something but then acknowledge it - maybe you forgot again.

curious2 says

, you have also a low threshhold for perceiving insults; accurate and legitimate criticisms are not insults.

So do you have hemorriods or are you a perfect asshole? I certainly do perceive insult in your stupid bullshit that taking 2 days worth of oxicontin 10 years ago is drug addled. But you are far and away the most juvenile poster on patnet so it's to be expected.

Where in your link did I deny and then acknowledge anything? Your reading comprehension sucks. I didn't forget. Your link didn't say jack shit the first time and still doesn't. Check prices of otc meds relative to the prices of other items, not with the exchange rates, subsidies, and taxes. Nothing special in the US. In shitholes where everything is dirt cheap otc is dirt cheap. Places were everything is expensive otc is expensive. So you saying otc is more expensive in Mexico than in the US? Not last time I was there. Neither is pretty much anything else. But the average Mexican earns something like $5.00 a day and finds it all very expensive. BTW I continue to love all your links that say something is true because someone says it's true.

Yes the US does have the lowest prices by far in the first world (oversight in my original post, my bad) and lower than a lot of the other better off non first world countries out there also. Not lower than the countries in poverty. Not every item in every country, but overall yes. If you want to talk relative to income then no contest, the gap is huge even compared to the poor countries. Last I read in the US 6% of income goes to food, nobody else is even close. Energy and most retail is also cheap compared to income. Yes I know you can buy heavily subsidized gas in Venezaula for 10 cents a gallon or the middle east for 50 cents so don't bother getting a hard on about that bullshit.

I will suitably modify my original statement so it may come within your grasp (doubtful). I don't find the cost of otc meds relative to other items lower in the US than any other country I travel to.

The problem here seems to be you can't grasp the difference between relative and absolute. Try to educate yourself on the concept.

I notice that you choose to be insulting and exhibit the maturity of an 11 year old but ignored my question. Other countries control drug prices by the government buying the drugs in bulk and making choices on what's available and what's not based on cost/benefit. Is this what you are advocating or are you just complaining to complain as usual?

81   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 28, 4:15pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

The problem here seems to be you can't grasp the difference between relative and absolute.

No, it's that you can't stop fighting even with yourself. BTW, though now you cop to only "2 days worth of oxicontin [sic] 10 years ago," you previously denied taking Oxycontin but admitted other opioids and opiates. It is terribly sad to see a college graduate so reduced, either deep in denial or lost in a haze so thick that you can't even remember anymore. Truly, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

In any event, the cost of aspirin is lower in America than in the country where it was invented. If you can find a country where OTC drugs cost less, post a link.

Otherwise, you're fighting with yourself in your own imaginary relativism that doesn't make any sense, you don't even understand value and cost of production, and your name-calling and profanity say everything about you and nothing about me. I used to take your rhetorical questions seriously, and research answers for you, but you never thanked me and only ever insulted me as above. Why should I waste more of my time on you?

82   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 28, 7:23pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

sbh says

I think that none, none of your criticisms have been spurious, in fact I find it remarkable how circumspect and assiduous you are in this and all your posts.

Funniest thing I've read all week. Thanks. Curious2's posts give drivel a bad name. Would love to get some of whatever you're smoking.

"Circumspect and assiduous". You've got to be sarcastic, right?

83   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2013 Sep 29, 1:05am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Homeboy says

More crap. The coverage will be BETTER, not worse. There will now be limits on deductibles, co-pays, and out of pocket expenses.

Says the Welfare freeloader.

84   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2013 Sep 29, 1:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This if from the calculator...

You are guaranteed access to a Silver plan with an actuarial value of 70%. This means that for all enrollees in a typical population, the plan will pay for 70% of expenses in total for covered benefits, with enrollees responsible for the rest. If you choose to enroll in a Bronze plan, the actuarial value will be 60%, meaning your out-of-pocket costs when you use services will likely be higher. Regardless of which level of coverage you choose, deductibles and copayments will vary from plan to plan, and out-of-pocket costs will depend on your health care expenses. Preventive services will be covered with no cost sharing required.

You'll pay 40% of a major surgery under the bronze plan or 30% under the silver plan. For me, that's after already paying about $800 a month(if that calculator is true, which I highly DOUBT!).
Who has $12K laying around after paying the Mortgage/Rent(which goes up more and more every month), Gas(the biggest volatile driver of our economy), car insurance I'm paying $1200 a year on each car, that's $2400 a year, and I'm told we're lucky, food prices are out of control.

In the last 6 years I have gone from managing to save money ever month, to living on the razor's edge with my finances, going hand to mouth. To put it simply Son, I don't have a few thousand dollar just laying around to pay for healthcare after paying high premiums for health insurance. I may as well not even be insured.
This is my position as someone who is a single income family making a little over 100K a year.

I can imagine those making considerably less, or dual incomes even making less, wouldn't have an extra 30% or 40% of a major medical expense just laying around either.

AND if they fucking Do! The left has think tanks dreaming up even more ways to dragnet those last few remaining dollars from them so they can blame the 1% for their finances.

I think the Left needs more Gates and Buffet's to warn everyone about the ills of the 1%, while injecting disclaimers, that they aren't one.

85   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 29, 6:07am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

sbh says

You know these fools: the ones who cannot read. You and Curious are perhaps the only two people in the entire nation to have read the Act. Kudoi to you both.

Thank you for the compliment. I have had Curious2 on ignore for some time now. I only see its posts when they show up as a preview on the front page. Perhaps it has changed in the time I have had it on ignore, and no longer substitutes insults, drivel, and nonsensical rants for content, but judging from the reactions of others to its posts and what I see in the previews, I highly doubt it. It looks to me like it still follows me around like a puppy dog hurling insults and not much more.

I once took a stand in a thread that contained the usual unscientific ranting about SSRIs supposedly being completely useless and killing more people than they help. I pointed out that medication has actually helped many people with depression live normal lives. Now Curious2 follows me around the forum and says I am addicted to SSRIs, and that a doctor convinced me that I had to take them. None of that is true; I simply sided with science in a thread against an onslaught of unscientific reactionary bashing. And like a child, Curious2 repeats the same insults over and over and over. In fact, in this very thread, I see it wrote I am "addicted to toxic placebos". And it does this to pretty much anyone who disagrees with it. Just yesterday I saw it calling someone else an "addict" as well. Honestly, it doesn't get much more juvenile than that. This circumspection and assidiousness you speak of - sorry, I'm not seeing it.

86   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 29, 6:20am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

sbh says

CaptainShuddup says

This is my position as someone who is a single income family making a little over 100K a year.

I think you are a remarkably incompetent manager of your finances.

Word.

87   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 29, 6:25am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

sbh says

Homeboy says

"Circumspect and assiduous". You've got to be sarcastic, right?

I'm speaking plainly.

And you are making an effort to be kind, and you can see from the two "Dislikes" already where that gets you with some posters around here.

I have learned from Homeboy and did try being nice to him. When I Liked some of his comments, he became even more hostile and paranoid, accused me of stalking him, continued pretending to "Ignore" me while also quoting and insulting me, etc. The situation reminded me of a quotation from Marcus Aurelius, and I started calling him Homefool. Now his compulsive defense of Obamacare reminds me of a character from a comedy sketch, and I just laugh.

There is one other likely addict, who can't even remember his whole narcotic history in one comment, denying and then acknowledging selectively. At least he can see through Obamacare, though that may be due to having a supplier who doesn't require insurance, and at least the drugs he takes are proven effective rather than merely advertised to be so.

The main issue is, some people (usually male and infected with Toxoplasma gondii) need to seek out fights. The ordinary life cycle of T. gondii is to reproduce in the intestines of cats, get excreted in the - ahem - kitty litter, get eaten by rodents, infect the brains of the rodents, and change the behavior of the rodents so they seek out cats. Obviously the rodents' behavior is destructive to the rodents, but it enables T. gondii to return to a cat and spread further. In humans, T. gondii is associated with paranoid schizophrenia, car wrecks, etc. If you look at Bob's comment history especially, with the reckless driving (always blamed on others who are persecuting him or otherwise interfering with him) and injuries, and the relentless pugnacity, you can see it. Communities with high levels of T. Gondii infection also report high levels of depression, both among the infected and those who must live among them, because even living around such people causes anxiety and depression. The Internet brings together allsorts, including especially toxoplasmotics who are too old or weak to participate in their local boxing ring; they troll for fights, then sometimes retreat to their "Ignore" corners.

88   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 29, 6:43am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

sbh says

I went down the subsidy rabbit hole of the link you provided (as you always do) and found, I must say, at this point in life, and old friend. If one wants to prepare oneself for this special torture I suggest he become a sole proprietor contractor and register with the Feds, and then file/compile his own taxes. The CCR gauntlet and the Annualized Income Worksheet will suffice to prepare him for the tender mercies of the subsidy portion of ACA.

Not sure what you're going on about here, but I looked at the print version of that application, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/14/want-obamacare-heres-the-21-page-draft-application/ and I have to say the application process I went through just to get Blue Shield private health insurance last year was much, much worse than that. There are actually only 6 pages that would have to be filled out on that ACA application.

Page 1 - Name and address
Page 2 - Did you file a tax return; info about what you're applying for; demographic info

Page 3 - Job and income (sort of makes sense if you are asking for a subsidy, don't you think?)

Pages 4 - 13 are just spaces to put in the same info for additional applicants (this also makes sense unless you thought they were going to divine how big your family is and magically have information about them all)

Pages 14 and 15 - Your current insurance information.

Page 16 - Are you Native American? (We did do that whole genocide against them earlier in the country's history, so I think the least we could do is give them a little break on health insurance, don't you think?)

Page 17 - Are you eligible for Medicaid and your signature.

That's all you have to fill out.

Please explain which of those six pages is a "rabbit hole". No offense, but don't you think you guys are kind of being drama queens about this? That all seems like necessary information to me if you are asking the government to give you money.

89   marcus   ignore (10)   2013 Sep 29, 10:03am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

AND if they fucking Do! The left has think tanks dreaming up even more ways to dragnet those last few remaining dollars from them so they can blame the 1% for their finances.

This is why I find it hard to believe you could possibly make 100K per year. Anyone who thinks like this can't possible program their way out of a paper bag.

Not to mention the number of comments you've managed to write on here in just 1 1/2 years.

Although, I must admit, you said single income, you didn't say it was yours.

90   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2013 Sep 29, 11:39pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Liberals beat the shit out of them with facts, and squash their Liberal Utopian views, they'll just attack you.

"Homeboy says

sbh says

CaptainShuddup says

This is my position as someone who is a single income family making a little over 100K a year.

I think you are a remarkably incompetent manager of your finances.

Word.

Homeboy what in the fuck do you know about finances, the state and federal comptroller is your only income source? And SBH is a mentally confused Indian, who thinks he's a Lawyer, who works as professional Liberal schill. Of course he's going to insult me every chance he gets.
That's OK I'll take it. I make 6 figures and shit's tight. Just wait in a few more days when this shithole legislation goes live. There's going to be couple 10 million middle class workers that are going to turn into "incompetent managers of their finances."

And they'll all Vote Republican in 2014 and 2016, I Guaran-Fuckin'-Tee it.

91   bob2356   ignore (4)   2013 Sep 30, 12:36am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

curious2 says

No, it's that you can't stop fighting even with yourself. BTW, though now you cop to only "2 days worth of oxicontin [sic] 10 years ago," you previously denied taking Oxycontin but admitted other opioids and opiates. It is terribly sad to see a college graduate so reduced, either deep in denial or lost in a haze so thick that you can't even remember anymore. Truly, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

I misspoke, I've been listening to your oxycontin bullshit so long I typed the wrong thing. I took oxycodone for 2 days 10 years ago. They are the same thing except oxycontin is time release. If this level of nitpicking Is the best you can come up with you are truly a pathetic creature. Must be lonely being the mayor of limp dick weenieville.

If you can't grasp relative pricing between products then I would say your college education was a major waste of money. If a med is half the cost of a gallon of milk in country a and the same half the cost in country b then it costs same percentage of income to person buying it in either country. no matter what the absolute prices are between the countries. As always you are ducking the question or morphing it. First you said meds, now it's aspirin. Are OTC medications more expensive in Mexico than America? Simple question, see how many more ways you can duck it. They weren't when I lived 10 minutes from Matamoros. People drove over to get script and otc meds cheaper.

I produced software for multinational clothing manufacturers for many years. I'm very sure I know quite a lot more about value and cost of production than you, especially about multi country transactions. Garment manufactures do lots of multi country transactions.

There was no retorical question. It's a simple question direct question, you just don't want to answer it because it undercuts your arguments. As usual you don't even begin to recognize the contradictions in your own positions. You said look at cheaper systems. All the cheaper systems (including your favorite Mexico where the government buys half the script drugs directly and controls all prices) out there involve bulk government buying and government restrictions on high priced on patent meds. Is this what you are advocating? Yes or No. I will say you are the best tap dancer since Fred Astaire.

92   anonymous   ignore (null)   2013 Sep 30, 12:47am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

If Marcus and Homeboy band together to claim something is good, that's all i need to know to be certain it's bad.

Simple simon motherfuckers, they are

93   humanity   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 30, 12:53am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

errc says

If Marcus and Homeboy band together to claim something is good, that's all i need to know to be certain it's bad.

They understand that it's a step in the right direction. Which seems to be the opinion of most intelligent people (jerrc would not be excluded included in that group).

94   SiO2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 30, 12:57am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx says

The lifetime cap was a good thing. Eliminating that means they we will be paying millions so that someone can live an extra few weeks.

I know two people who have incurred >$1m in insured costs. Now they are alive and well. With the cap, not sure what would happen; would a hospital boot them out when the cap is hit? Or does the family go bankrupt? Anything else?

95   anonymous   ignore (null)   2013 Sep 30, 12:59am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

humanity says

errc says

If Marcus and Homeboy band together to claim something is good, that's all i need to know to be certain it's bad.

They understand that it's a step in the right direction. Which seems to be the opinion of most intelligent people (jerrc would not be excluded included in that group).

A step in the right direction?

That's your demtard consensus science of the day?

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96   edvard2   ignore (1)   2013 Sep 30, 1:01am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

I'm pretty sure I could very easily find 'A' story of 'someone' on any subject where things didn't work out right and then use that as a way to say : see, see? That little story proved my point! Stupid.

97   mell   ignore (3)   2013 Sep 30, 1:16am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Homeboy says

sbh says

CaptainShuddup says

This is my position as someone who is a single income family making a little over 100K a year.

I think you are a remarkably incompetent manager of your finances.

Word.

Speaking for the bay area, 100K is extremely tight for a single family. 200K is where you can lead a middle-class life without having to worry too much about finances and can also make some smaller investments. And that's where Obummer starts taxing, go figure.. ;)

98   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 30, 1:58pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

mell says

Speaking for the bay area, 100K is extremely tight for a single family. 200K is where you can lead a middle-class life without having to worry too much about finances and can also make some smaller investments. And that's where Obummer starts taxing, go figure.. ;)

A. He doesn't live in the Bay Area.

B. Bullshit. I know plenty of people who make a living in the Bay Area under $100K just fine.

Most rich people are in denial about the fact that they are rich. The fact is, if you make over $200,000, you are one of the richest 3.9% in America.

And that's what this anti-Obamacare campaign is all about. It's just rich people wanting to hoard EVERYTHING, and crying about the possibility that someone poorer than them might actually get some help from the government.

99   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 30, 2:05pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

errc says

If Marcus and Homeboy band together to claim something is good, that's all i need to know to be certain it's bad.

I don't doubt that at all. That's how you think - you are a knee-jerk reactionary who forms his opinions on emotional partisan grounds rather than facts.

100   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 30, 2:05pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

Are OTC medications more expensive in Mexico than America?

No, America has the lowest prices in the world for OTC drugs. I even provided links for you, and reminded you in this very thread, but you keep forgetting. If you can find a link showing anyplace where OTC drugs are cheaper than they are here, post it. Otherwise, give it up already.

Homeboy says

And that's what this anti-Obamacare campaign is all about. It's just....

A majority of Americans oppose Obamacare in poll after poll. Even Obama opposed it in 2008, when it was called Hillary's Plan, and he campaigned against it. Even Bob opposes it, and he rushes to defend you on almost anything else. Now parts of the government are shutting down because one party won't accept it and the other party won't let go of it and neither party will put it to a referendum (where voters would reject it).

101   Homeboy   ignore (2)   2013 Sep 30, 2:17pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

CaptainShuddup says

Homeboy what in the fuck do you know about finances, the state and federal comptroller is your only income source?

Funny, you make all these comments about me wanting government money, yet YOU are the one constantly whining because you aren't eligible for healthcare subsidies, and wanting a system where tax money from the middle class goes to pay for YOUR healthcare.

This shit is too funny. I couldn't even MAKE this up.

CaptainShuddup says

That's OK I'll take it. I make 6 figures and shit's tight.

I know people who make HALF what you make, and they're doing just fine. You know, you don't have to spend every dime you make as soon as you get it.

CaptainShuddup says

Just wait in a few more days when this shithole legislation goes live. There's going to be couple 10 million middle class workers that are going to turn into "incompetent managers of their finances."

And they'll all Vote Republican in 2014 and 2016, I Guaran-Fuckin'-Tee it.

Ain't nobody going to EVER vote republican again, except maybe rich assholes like you. The republifarts put all their eggs in the "shut down Obamacare" basket. They're going to fail at that, and after people get used to ACA, they're going to say, "Wow, those republijerks sure were retarded when they tried to shut down the government for no reason." They might still get the votes of the top 20% wage earners like yourself, who make too much money to get an insurance subsidy, but 20% isn't enough to win an election, buddy. That's why Romney got his ass handed to him. He sided with the elite, so the middle class said, "Fuck you, pal."

102   bob2356   ignore (4)   2013 Sep 30, 6:25pm     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

curious2 says

No, America has the lowest prices in the world for OTC drugs. I even provided links for you, and reminded you in this very thread, but you keep forgetting. If you can find a link showing anyplace where OTC drugs are cheaper than they are here, post it. Otherwise, give it up already.

Your link goes to a contact page, nothing else. Always did, I told you that before. Guess your memory isn't as good as you would like think.

http://farmaciadelnino.com/eng/index/item/455/27/aspirin-aspirin-500mg-40tab
http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/bayer-extra-strength-aspirin-500-mg-coated-caplets/ID=prod6212688-product
http://www.amazon.com/Bayer-Advanced-Aspirin-Strength-Tablets/dp/B004Z5GYVU

Bayer 500 mg aspirin. Simplest med there is.
farmcia 40 pack 2.55 USD 6.3cents per pill. walgreens 100 pack 9.79. 9.7cents per pill. amazon.com 80 pack 18.12. 22 cents per pill. Note that bayer no longer sells 500's in anything but coated in the US. Might make a very very small price difference.

http://farmaciadelnino.com/eng/index/item/425/27/alka-seltzer-12tab
http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/alka-seltzer-original-antacid-%26-pain-relief-medicine-effervescent-tablets/ID=prod351429-product

Here's an oldy but goody plain old alka seltzer. breakfast of champion (drinkers that is) everywhere plop plop fizz fizz. Exact same product both places. My math says cheaper in Mexico. It seems odd to see Farmacia online. I've bought things in a Farmacia Del Niño store, I think in Nuevo Larado, it's a chain like walgreens,

I know for damn sure I paid less for OTC when I lived in Costa RIca, although I have to concede that was a 10 years ago. I paid less for many things. I paid a more (sometimes a lot more) for some things, mostly imported manufactured goods. Levi jeans were just off the scale at something like 5 times walmart prices.

Funny things like this sometimes happen to prices when duties, taxes, and subsidies get involved. Makes it very tough (like pretty much impossible) to do an accurate country to country evaluation. Which is why relative pricing is usually a better way to look at things, although far far from perfect. PPP is supposed to do a better job in theory, but I find it's pretty far off in places, like sometimes way over weighting local goods. Especially in economies with high degrees of barter. All of which makes your stone axe simplistic price comparisons useless. As are my examples above other than in the most crude form of metric.

Still no answer to my original question? Pitiable.

103   curious2   ignore (0)   2013 Sep 30, 6:49pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

Still no answer to my original question?

I did answer your original question, though you tossed in a bunch of extra rhetorical questions. As for the contact information, if you don't believe U.S. News & World Report, that's between you and them, I'm not going to fight them on your behalf when their report is consistent with my own observations.

I do appreciate the links. I see yet another difference between us though; you look for brand name items, I read active ingredients. I provided a link showing the cost of aspirin (a generic term in the US since the end of WWI), you replied with brand name Bayer. But, I'll give you credit where it's due, indeed your link showed a cheaper price for Bayer brand aspirin. Walgreens brand contains the same active ingredient, and even adjusting for dosage it costs less than half as much as your link. Likewise the Walgreens equivalent of your Alka Seltzer Original:

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-effervescent-pain-relief-tablets/ID=prod2775-product

BTW, if you're taking maximum strength aspirin, plus Alka Seltzer Original (which also contains aspirin), that's a lot of aspirin. With GI symptoms requiring Alka Seltzer, you might want to "ask your doctor" about ways to reduce your aspirin intake. Aspirin can cause bleeding ulcers, which can be fatal. Most people are happy with the usual 325mg tablets, two of which add up to 650mg, the maximum typical dose; two Bayer Maximum plus 2 Alka Seltzer Original would be nearly triple that.

I don't know why you keep bringing up extraneous products like jeans and gasoline, the subject was OTC drug prices. Your brand name drugs do provide a counterpoint, though people who shop for value buy the generic not the celebrity endorsement. Maybe your point was, if you're buying a jingle or celebrity endorsement that happens to contain some aspirin, it can be found for less in places where celebrity endorsements don't pay as well. I was referring to actual OTC drugs, not keeping up with the Kardashians and their latest branded ventures. Anyway, thank you for the links.

104   bob2356   ignore (4)   2013 Oct 1, 7:07pm     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

curious2 says

As for the contact information, if you don't believe U.S. News & World Report, that's between you and them, I'm not going to fight them on your behalf when their report is consistent with my own observations.

What report is there to believe? Your link doesn't go to a report of any kind, never did. What don't you understand about this?

Where did you answer the question? It's not there. Do you advocate government control of purchase, pricing, and availability of prescription drugs in order to lower prices. It's a not hard question to grasp. Except the question points up one of the glaring contradictions in your logic so I can see why you want to avoid actually answering it.

curious2 says

I do appreciate the links. I see yet another difference between us though; you look for brand name items, I read active ingredients. I provided a link showing the cost of aspirin (a generic term in the US since the end of WWI), you replied with brand name Bayer.

Finding a generic prices for overseas items through the internet just isn't possible. The overseas stores don't put up generic prices that I could find. You should know that. Plus it's more consistent to compare name brands. You made the blanket statement that the US has the cheapest otc prices. Period, no qualifiers. I wasn't aware that all those shelves after shelves of name brand medications in walgreens and walmart weren't "actual" otc drugs. Trying to weasel the argument one more time are we?

curious2 says

I don't know why you keep bringing up extraneous products like jeans and gasoline, the subject was OTC drug prices

My point, made at length, was that direct comparisons of raw prices between countries is pretty meaningless. Either you are being deliberetly dense on the subject or just don't have any understanding at all of the basic fundamentals involved in any kind of international commerce.

105   elliemae   ignore (0)   2013 Oct 2, 12:43am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

I have a friend who hates the Affordable Care Act - she thinks it's intrusive. She was describing her sister, who is sick and has no income and no health insurance. She's under 65 years old so she doesn't qualify for Medicaid or financial assistance due to her children not being in the home. It's a sad situation - and the woman has severe health problems.

So, my buddy was describing how awful it is that her sister is in this situation and the horrible pain and symptoms - but when I said that will all change she went on a rant and complained about moochers & Obamacare. I asked why she doesn't help her sister and she said that it's not her responsibility. When I reminded her that her healthcare is subsidized by her employer but her oldest daughter has Medicare & Medicaid... well, another rant.

And that, folks, is why we need the Affordable Care Act.

106   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2013 Oct 2, 6:22am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

elliemae says

And that, folks, is why we need the Affordable Care Act.

So that everybody pays their fair share.

It doesn't sound like her sister can afford the premiums, copays, or deductibles. I sure as hell can't, and I WAS loaded.

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