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Discuss Anything

By Patrick following x   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 350,634 views   453 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Patrick.net is an anonymous forum.

I hope to make it pleasant to use while still maintaining everyone's right to speak and to draw a following for their ideas. I especially want to people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

Moderation policy:

TL;DR If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, you don't need to read the next 3 lines. Such comments and posts are very welcome here.
Do not deliberately insult the other users. That shuts down actual debate and kills the spirit of good will.
Do not insult the moderators. They have been very fair.
Do not insult the site. Just go somewhere else. This was lot of work for me, and is completely free for you. There aren't even ads.


Here are the original articles that made this site famous:

https://patrick.net/post/1282720/2015-07-11-ten-reasons-it-s-a-terrible-time-to-buy-an-expensive-house
https://patrick.net/post/1282721/2015-07-11-eight-groups-who-lie-about-the-housing-market
https://patrick.net/post/1282722/2015-07-11-37-bogus-arguments-about-housing

If you don't like this site, please allow me to start your own forum for you where you can personally be in charge of its moderation policies. Complaints about moderation policies will also swiftly be deleted.

Please do talk about news, issues, facts, opinions and everything else under the sun. Comments expressed with sincere good will are especially welcome.

Flag personal comments with the "personal" link by each comment so that they will go into moderation where they will be reviewed by a moderator. Please do not mark comments as personal if they are not about you or the others users. Please do not post personally identifying information about yourself or others. That will be deleted, and you may get banned.

If you're not registered or don't have the "personal" link, please report the personal comment to p@patrick.net by email.

If you ignore another user, you will not see their posts or comments. The ignore link is on their user page. Just click their name or icon to get to their user page.

To get another user's attention, mention him in a comment with an @ character prepended to his username ( for example @Patrick ) and then he will get an email of that comment.

If you include an image URL ending in .jpg, .png, or .gif it will be converted into the visible image in a post or comment.

If you include a YouTube or Vimeo URL, the post or comment will display the video.

These basic html tags work: a b blockquote br code del font hr i iframe img li ol ol p strike sub sup u ul video vsmall

You can also surround a word or phrase with the * character to make it bold or the _ character to make it italic.

You can edit any post or comment you entered within a week of creating it. After a week, content is permanent and will not be deleted.

Please write p@patrick.net with questions or suggestions.

patrick.net has never received a national security letter.

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241   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 10, 11:11am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sniper says

I'm in post moderation for doing NOTHING wrong, and no posts deleted


I, personally, had to mark a post of yours personal 3 times before it finally got deleted!

A reference to someone needing glasses was made. A clear and obvious personal attack. "NOTHING wrong"? You do realize quoting a user then saying someone needs glasses is a personal attack, right?

But what does it say when someone has to mark a post personal, that is personal, 3 times before it doesn't come back? Maybe there should be checks and balances on other users not just the lower level users?
242   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jun 10, 12:27pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
If all posts were treated equally and all personal attacks were deleted, then I would be ecstatic.

I liked this part of your post.

Trolls and sockpuppets are ubiquitous on the internet. not allowing personal attacks denies them one of their biggest weapons. They still have the strawman, mock outrage, denial of facts, and charts.
243   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 10, 12:30pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says

Trolls and sockpuppets are ubiquitous on the internet. not allowing personal attacks denies them one of their biggest weapons. They still have the strawman, mock outrage, denial of facts, and charts.


I know--if Patrick could ban strawman arguments, then we'd really have something.
244   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 10, 1:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
I, personally, had to mark a post of yours personal 3 times before it finally got deleted!


There are 5 moderators plus myself, and they probably all interpret things a big differently.

I'd agree that saying someone needs glasses is personal, and not about the point being argued.
245   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2018 Jun 22, 8:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Patrick

My posts are not showing up, why?
246   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 22, 11:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Golly, what a lot of work keeping people from ad hominem attacks on each other.
247   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2018 Jun 23, 7:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sniper says
@Patrick

My posts are not showing up, why?


@Patrick, still not showing up, is it a glitch in the software?
248   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 23, 10:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

By "posts", do you mean comments? Clearly those are showing up fine.

I don't think new threads are treated any differently than comments.

I will try to log in as you and create a new thread...
249   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jun 23, 10:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ah, it was an auto-downgrade thing where there were enough comments marked personal to limit your privileges.

I undid that, now you should be the same as before.
250   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2018 Jun 23, 2:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Ah, it was an auto-downgrade thing where there were enough comments marked personal to limit your privileges.


I thought that might have been it, but when I went back and looked, I didn't see any past comments of mine deleted.

Who was marking them personal?
251   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jun 23, 9:52pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Sniper says
Who was marking them personal?


Apparently it was somebody who noticed that you made yet another personal comment. A good way to avoid this is to not make personal comments. It is quite easy.
252   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 9, 11:50am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Patrick

Hey Patrick, does the "ignore" feature allow posters to disappear from mod view?
253   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 9, 4:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@Goran_K no, moderators should see all comments in moderation.
254   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 10, 11:10am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
@Goran_K no, moderators should see all comments in moderation.


@Patrick

I think that's okay but for some reason I'm not able to see the comments of "Aphroman" as I think he put me on ignore after I warned him for a few of his "personal attacks", now he's skating under the radar so-to-speak.
255   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 10, 11:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
I'm not able to see the comments of "Aphroman" as I think he put me on ignore


can we please eliminate this functionality? noone should be able to edit YOUR pat.net experience. If someone wants to mute their own experience, thats completely different. However, muting someone else's ability to view pat/net posts will destroy users ability to follow conversations and drive them from the site. We are down to a core 50... you dont want 25 of those 50 never seeing what the other 25 are discussing, unless you dont want discussions.
256   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 10, 12:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
why the fuck bother having mods


because ad hom's are childish and chase away anyone of value. Iwog set a terrible precedent, and frankly I didnt come around this place for years because I was sick of that type of personal flame bullshit.

Aphroman says
bitter Trumpublicans


Trump supporters are winning, thats the opposite of bitter.Aphroman says
run off most all opposing viewpoints


I for one welcome opposing viewpoints. Haven't heard anyone make a decent opposing argument in a while though. Its all "fuck trump" or "republicans are KKK" or "white men are nazis". yeah, people with that level of arguments should be chased off
257   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 10, 12:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
I for one welcome opposing viewpoints. Haven't heard anyone make a decent opposing argument in a while though. Its all "fuck trump" or "republicans are KKK" or "white men are nazis". yeah, people with that level of arguments should be chased off


It's really too bad we can't eliminate strawman arguments. They are much worse than name calling, IMO. The above is a great example.

I'd be surprised if CBOE could provide more than a couple examples (if any), yet he feels fine saying that's "all" the arguments because he knows strawman arguments are A-OK at pat.net.
258   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 10, 12:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

removed leon's comment as a personal distraction from this discussion. to leon, id be happy to have that discussion, but start a different thread. this one isnt for flame wars, its for improving pat.net
259   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 10, 12:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
removed leon's comment as a personal distraction from this discussion. to leon, id be happy to have that discussion, but start a different thread. this one isnt for flame wars, its for improving pat.net


lol--suggesting that pat.net needs to remove strawman arguments isn't improving pat.net?
260   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 10, 12:56pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
The rules here are pointless because they are not applied equally.


show us an example. I see you flame ad homs, then get mad when non ad homs are allowed to stay. your "this isnt fair" routine is getting tedious.
261   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 10, 12:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
show us an example. I see you flame ad homs, then get mad when non ad homs are allowed to stay. your "this isnt fair" routine is getting tedious.


I can't remember when it was, but I posted about 20 ad homs from one of the posters that were never zapped. This poster never got a warning from Goran or anyone. Not quite as many, but I reposted a handful of ad homs from one of the mods as well.

Aphro is 100% correct. It's simple bias that clouds the mods here.
262   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 8:45am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
can we please eliminate this functionality? noone should be able to edit YOUR pat.net experience. If someone wants to mute their own experience, thats completely different. However, muting someone else's ability to view pat/net posts will destroy users ability to follow conversations and drive them from the site. We are down to a core 50... you dont want 25 of those 50 never seeing what the other 25 are discussing, unless you dont want discussions.


@Patrick, I agree. Aphroman blocking mods is him defacto circumventing the system to he can continue ad hom attacks on people.
263   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 11, 9:08am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
bitter Trumpublicans have run off most all opposing viewpoints

I think at least a few left because they could no longer belittle and abuse other posters.
264   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 9:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
@Patrick, I agree. Aphroman blocking mods is him defacto circumventing the system to he can continue ad hom attacks on people.


Or maybe he got tired of reading all the strawman arguments from the mods.
265   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 9:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Onvacation says
I think at least a few left because they could no longer belittle and abuse other posters.



Yes, some people get pleasure out of that. Don't want them around.
266   MrMagic   ignore (10)   2018 Jul 11, 9:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
@Patrick, I agree. Aphroman blocking mods is him defacto circumventing the system to he can continue ad hom attacks on people.


Patrick says
Onvacation says
I think at least a few left because they could no longer belittle and abuse other posters.



Yes, some people get pleasure out of that. Don't want them around.


Yet, you allowed Aphroman sign on with a completely new screen name/profile (and deleted his old one, which led the pack with comments in Comment Jail), only so he could continue his ad hom attacks under this new profile?

What's up with that?
267   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 10:44am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MrMagic says
Yet, you allowed Aphroman sign on with a completely new screen name/profile (and deleted his old one, which led the pack with comments in Comment Jail), only so he could continue his ad hom attacks under this new profile?

What's up with that?


Can someone quote some of these supposed ad hom attacks from Aphro?
268   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yep--nobody left because they couldn't ad hom. They left because pat.net became a place where free speech was no longer welcome unless you are on the right team.
269   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 11, 1:10pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.
270   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


How is saying someone has a disease not a personal comment? TDS should not be allowed as it is a personal attack how is this not obvious?
271   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Yep--nobody left because they couldn't ad hom. They left because pat.net became a place where free speech was no longer welcome unless you are on the right team.
they left because having moderators only on 1 team is really not moderation at all.
272   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 1:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
MrMagic says
Yet, you allowed Aphroman sign on with a completely new screen name/profile (and deleted his old one, which led the pack with comments in Comment Jail), only so he could continue his ad hom attacks under this new profile?

What's up with that?


Can someone quote some of these supposed ad hom attacks from Aphro?
should have comment jail again and have mods reinstate messages after personal attacks have been corrected.
273   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Jul 11, 1:23pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
The Right is batshit crazy, and they’re antithetical to everything America was founded on. It’s pathetic


I applaud you for critiquing a group rather than an individual.

Regarding your critique, who is the "right"? This is an honest question. Do you just mean R's? Or anyone who voted for Trump? Both of those groups? Right vs left has lost all meaning. Its just R's vs D's now, both pathetic groups.

Lose the R vD mindset and join libertarians like the cool kids
274   Onvacation   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 11, 1:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

RafiMaas says
they left because having moderators only on 1 team is really not moderation at all.

And that is the problem: teams.
I am not a republican. And I am certainly not a democrat. What team am I on?
If people would stick to the topic we could have a civil debate but the trolls and sockpuppets cant compete against facts so they attack anyone not on their "team" .
275   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 2:18pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


Pretty much. Not to mention the most vile, racist comments were levied by those crying "free speech!"
276   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 2:52pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


Nope--that's bullshit. It was ironman that caused the ad hom ban. He's on the Trump bandwagon.

Things were fine with banning ad homs. People didn't leave until Patrick chose to outsource moderation to one team.
277   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 2:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says

Pretty much. Not to mention the most vile, racist comments were levied by those crying "free speech!"


Nope--the most vile were Ironman. Without question.

Although there is an extremely racist post title currently active on the home screen. But the author is on the right team so it's no problem.
278   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Jul 11, 2:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I had my posts deleted. But I just learned to not adhom instead of taking it personally and quitting.

RafiMaas says
LeonDurham says
Yep--nobody left because they couldn't ad hom. They left because pat.net became a place where free speech was no longer welcome unless you are on the right team.
they left because having moderators only on 1 team is really not moderation at all.
279   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Jul 11, 3:12pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Although there is an extremely racist post title currently active on the home screen. But the author is on the right team so it's no problem.


If you mean Hey N... police your own, the author is HEYYOU and he is on no teams other than his own
280   RafiMaas   ignore (0)   2018 Jul 11, 3:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Goran_K says
TwoScoopsOfWompWomp says
Bullshit. It was the TDS flipouts that caused the ad hom ban, and THAT was literally given as the reason by TDSers that it was no longer "Free Speech" unless you could call everybody a retarded Trumptard scumbag five times in a post.


Pretty much. Not to mention the most vile, racist comments were levied by those crying "free speech!"


Hey moderators, is saying someone has a disease a personal attack or not? Avoiding the question?

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