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Freedom to Offend

By Patrick following x   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 402,249 views   539 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


Patrick.net is a mostly-unmoderated anonymous forum where the fundamental human right to offend is protected. Freedom of speech is nothing but the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection because it will not be censored. Controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.

I especially want to people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

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― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

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361   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 21, 7:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Automation drives wealth to the top and starves the bottom. Government's job should be to counteract this natural tendency of capitalism.

That is the definition of a Luddite. Beside, all sectors of US society are richer now than they ever were, and we are more automated now than we have ever been.
362   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 21, 7:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
That is the definition of a Luddite. Beside, all sectors of US society are richer now than they ever were, and we are more automated now than we have ever been.


No, it is not. It is a fact. The cost savings from automation accrue to the owners. This isn't a moral judgment, it's reality. And I'm not advocating that we stop progress, only that we need to acknowledge the side effects of it and develop policies to counteract those effects.

Real wages for the bottom 50% of Americans have been flat for 40 years while income for the top 1% has grown exponentially.
363   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 21, 8:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
LeonDurham, barrister, Jazz_music, rocketmanjoe, Patrick, Goran_K, Aphroman - are we all for the rigid enforcement of E-Verify?


Yes, absolutely.
364   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 21, 8:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
And what happens to the wages of people making the things that the illegals consume?


A large fraction of the wages of illegals goes not to consumption, but straight to Mexico as remittances.
365   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 21, 9:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Real wages for the bottom 50% of Americans have been flat for 40 years while income for the top 1% has grown exponentially.

And you do not think that allowing millions of unskilled illegal immigrants over that 40 years has anything to do with it? If it was all about "automation," then those illegals would not have found work. And if you really wanted to develop a policy to deal with this, then rigid E-Verify is an obvious choice.
366   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 21, 9:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
A large fraction


How large?
A larger amount is remitted by legal immigrants and H2B visa holders like the ones who work at Trump's Mar a Lago.
367   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 21, 9:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Patrick says
A large fraction


How large?
A larger amount is remitted by legal immigrants and H2B visa holders like the ones who work at Trump's Mar a Lago.


For the H2B and legal immigrants to be remitting more money to Mexico, there must be more of them than illegals. But don't illegals vastly outnumber the legal immigrants?
368   jazz_music   ignore (7)   2018 Sep 21, 10:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
are we all for the rigid enforcement of E-Verify?

I have to find out what it is
369   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 21, 10:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
For the H2B and legal immigrants to be remitting more money to Mexico, there must be more of them than illegals. But don't illegals vastly outnumber the legal immigrants?

More than 43.7 million immigrants resided in the United States
https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Numbers

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/
There were 12.1 million immigrants living in the country illegally

Nope, by far more legal immigrants.
370   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 21, 10:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
legal immigrants to be remitting more money to Mexico


No but seriously, from 86 to 2016 some 6.2 million Mexicans immigrated to US and the total population was 11.6 million making for 5.4 million illegal immigrants.

It is know that not all illegal immigrants are from Mexico?
371   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 7:06am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Thanks for being honest.


I know, right? So many comments posted with out evidence that are false. Why do people insist on being so dishonest. I guess that's what it takes to be a Trump supporter.
372   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 7:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

jazz_music says
You are not only unashamed to use that photo, you are going to fight to protect the lies behind it that Obama is a muslim.


An honest person knows Obama is not Muslim.
A dishonest person won't admit that they accumulated much wealth under the person in this photo
Goran_K says
373   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 22, 7:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says

A large fraction of the wages of illegals goes not to consumption, but straight to Mexico as remittances.


I imagine it's a similar fraction as what gets saved by US citizens. Bottom line--illegals consume and produce.

HeadSet says
And you do not think that allowing millions of unskilled illegal immigrants over that 40 years has anything to do with it? If it was all about "automation," then those illegals would not have found work. And if you really wanted to develop a policy to deal with this, then rigid E-Verify is an obvious choice.


Maybe a small part, but like I said-illegals consume as well as produce. Does having babies cause wages to go down?

And I'm fine with E-Verify. It's not perfect, but fine with me
374   jazz_music   ignore (7)   2018 Sep 22, 10:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

That photo is damning evidence that Fox News, O'Reilly in this case makes shit up and lies to its audience who are half asleep or on their way to/from work.

But you watch this trash so this is your reality.

Fox News took a beating after tweeting that photo appearing to show Obama “in Muslim garb.”

“Photo of Obama in Muslim garb shows deep ties to faith, O’Reilly says,” the news network tweeted on Thursday night, attaching a photo of Obama at his half-brother’s Maryland wedding in the 1990’s.
375   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 10:35am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Illegals not only knock down wages for the poorest Americans, they also greatly increase the strain on police and emergency rooms without paying, and then drain billions by simply shipping it home.

http://www.cairco.org/issues/remittances

376   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 22, 10:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Illegals not only knock down wages for the poorest Americans, they also greatly increase the strain on police and emergency rooms without paying, and then drain billions by simply shipping it home.


Mostly not true-they pay the taxes that support police. They ship home what Americans save. Consumption is mostly the same.
377   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 11:19am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Why do people insist on being so dishonest.


@Rocketmanjoe IMHO, all political argument is basically just rationalization for feelings.

That is, the surface arguments are mostly "dishonest" in the sense that they do not have much to do with the true motivating feelings. Supporting evidence will be eagerly used, while negating evidence will be quietly ignored. This is not a specifically Republican or Democratic mechanism, it's universal.

What people are really arguing about is hard to hear because it remains unspoken. And it cannot be spoken because it's embarrassing, and generally not a valid argument to begin with. Some examples:

* I am an X, and X's all believe Y. Therefore Y is true! (motivation by identity)
* I feel bad because others seem to be doing better than my group, therefore others are racist/sexist/other bad thing! (motivation by resentment)
* I really like my capital gains, so I must deserve them, and it's wrong to tax what I deserve. (motivation by fear of loss)

All these kinds of half-baked "reasoning" are really just self-interest, and so cannot be spoken truthfully. The bogus surface arguments will go on forever without ever getting to the right answer. The right answer is always this: My self is your self. I do not like your pain. We are brothers because we are both American/human/male/any other kind of group.

The only question is where to draw the line. Who is "we"? A small homogeneous "we" has very strong group identity and prospers, but is weak numerically and so is always afraid of the majority whom they have alienated. This is the Jewish strategy. A larger "we" has a weaker group identity, but more numerical strength.

For maximum harmony, stability, and prosperity, I say that "we" should be the country. Not the whole world, and not some sub-group of the country. Diversity weakens a country, which is why all colonial empires worked hard at stamping out or downplaying diversity, homogenizing the loyalty of their subjects through a single language, single religion, single king, single center of power. They recognized that the whole enterprise would fall apart without a strong group identity.
378   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 22, 11:43am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Good answer/explanation.

#MAGA
379   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 12:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Diversity weakens a country


Then why the term "melting pot" diversity is what made this country great. Don't let anyone tell you different
380   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 12:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
They recognized that the whole enterprise would fall apart without a strong group identity.


And yet they still feel apart.
381   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 12:46pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Then why the term "melting pot" diversity is what made this country great. Don't let anyone tell you different


Yes, the "melting pot" is exactly what made the country great!

Think about it: the melting pot melts down the previous identity and creates a new one. America took people from everywhere, and made them into Americans.

The "diversity" was recognized as the primary danger to our unity as a country, and so the diversity was deliberately erased by the melting pot.

Diversity = Death
382   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 12:48pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Patrick says
They recognized that the whole enterprise would fall apart without a strong group identity.


And yet they still feel apart.


They succeeded only as long as "diversity" did not infect the empire.

As soon as the various subgroups asserted other identities, the center could not hold, and it fell apart.

But as long as the subgroups felt they were part of the whole, not separate groups, the empire prospered.
383   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 12:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Illegals


Tell me, how much of that remittance is from illegals? You do realize it's not just illegals who remit? In fact legals remit far more than illegals because the get a far bigger pay check.
384   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 1:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
They succeeded only as long as "diversity" did not infect the empire.


That's not how it worked out for Hitler, you remember him? He really was against diversity.
So you think Hitler was on to something? That's what it's sounding like to me.
385   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 1:25pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Lol, yes, I'm "literally Hitler" now because I would like to see more unity as Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that, when a Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress.[7] This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law.
386   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 1:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
But as long as the subgroups felt they were part of the whole, not separate groups, the empire prospered.


So then, how is it that the United States, the great melting pot, has prospered? We have many sub groups. They sometimes live in the same area. Like in Daly City lots of Philippinos. China Town, Japan town, little Italy and yet we were the greatest country in the world. Diversity is what shaped this country, made this country great, is it really that hard to see?
387   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 1:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Diversity is what shaped this country


Weren't you just saying that the melting pot is what shaped this country?

(Woah, comment 420 dude!)
388   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 1:32pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
knock down wages for the poorest Americans

That is probably a sufficient argument for stopping illegal immigration.

I am sure that The Masters of Universe (TM) who own packing and construction industries are all for higher profit margins due to employment of illegals. American workers meanwhile see the wages stagnate because Masters can buy an extra yacht..
389   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 22, 1:41pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Stalin was against Capitalism. Do u think he was onto something? Or do you prefer the workers socialist party?

See we can all draw parallels.

Rocketmanjoe says
Patrick says
They succeeded only as long as "diversity" did not infect the empire.


That's not how it worked out for Hitler, you remember him? He really was against diversity.
So you think Hitler was on to something? That's what it's sounding like to me.
390   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 22, 1:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

dr6B says
That is probably a sufficient argument for stopping illegal immigration.


As if there are people who support illegal immigration? Who is arguing for it?
391   d6rB   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 1:45pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says

As if there are people who support illegal immigration? Who is arguing for it?

Then it is simple indeed. Instead of arguing about minute details, we all agree that a) need to introduce E-Verify, b) prison times for employers of illegals, whether for chicken processing plant owners or people who hire illegals for mowing lawns, and c) if police catch an illegal, they deport xe.
392   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 1:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
The "diversity" was recognized as the primary danger to our unity as a country, and so the diversity was deliberately erased by the melting pot.


Show me a time when Americans haven't celebrated their roots? Have you forgotten where your family came from? Or is it from all over the place because of the fact that the United States is a melting pot.
393   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 1:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
Stalin was against Capitalism. Do u think he was onto something? Or do you prefer the workers socialist party?

See we can all draw parallels.


I'm guessing Stalin was against diversity too.

Thanks for the help Captain.
394   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 1:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Show me a time when Americans haven't celebrated their roots? Have you forgotten where your family came from?

Like St Patrick's Day? Lots of celebrations all over, but how many actually can speak any Gaelic?
395   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 2:07pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
As if there are people who support illegal immigration? Who is arguing for it?


Most Democrats directly support and encourage illegal immigration by:

* granting government benefits to illegals, such as free tuition, at the expense of US citizens
* refusal to support ICE's defense of our southern border, to the degree that ICE employees and their families have been attacked
* refusal to even utter the correct legal term: "illegal alien"

Illegal alien was dropped eventually for illegal immigrant, but even that wasn’t enough for the P.C. police in the Democratic Party. Now, we are told, they are in fact “undocumented immigrants.” Undocumented, of course, sounds as if the only thing separating them from legal immigrants is a few bits of paper that old Uncle Sam just forgot to give them.

In a shameless perversion of both fact and language, some of the more extreme proponents of mass immigration have even begun calling illegal aliens “undocumented Americans” or “undocumented citizens.” Of course, they are neither American nor American citizens, but this is of little consequence to proponents of mass migration. “No human being is illegal,” claimed Ramos in an interview with Chris Cuomo.


https://www.lifezette.com/2016/06/do-democrats-support-illegal-immigration/
396   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 22, 2:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says

Most Democrats directly support and encourage illegal immigration by:


Nope. They all support border security. Claiming Dems don't support defense of our southern border is an outright lie.
397   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 22, 2:15pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
Show me a time when Americans haven't celebrated their roots? Have you forgotten where your family came from?

Like St Patrick's Day? Lots of celebrations all over, but how many actually can speak any Gaelic?


America prospered most when primarily Caucasian with a limited number of primarily Caucasian and Asian immigrants. Also those immigrants overcame real adversities without whining or pissing on the flag uniting under the American identity. Like the Irish or Italian who now have to make a bid to keep Columbus day because of leftoid idiocy. No country with majority unassimilated diversity has ever succeeded. Those that take in so many immigrants that they reach majority diversity need to make sure the immigrants are tribally compatible and integrate into the country's identity faster than new immigrants arrive and they need to strictly enforce existing laws to swiftly kick out those undermining the system. Otherwise it's lights out.

#MAGA
398   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 22, 2:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
LeonDurham says
As if there are people who support illegal immigration? Who is arguing for it?


Most Democrats directly support and approve of illegal immigration by:

* granting government benefits to illegals, such as free tuition
* refusal to support ICE's defense of our southern border, to the degree that ICE employees and their families have been attacked
* refusal to even utter the correct legal term: "illegal alien"

Illegal alien was dropped eventually for illegal immigrant, but even that wasn’t enough for the P.C. police in the Democratic Party. Now, we are told, they are in fact “undocumented immigrants.” Undocumented, of course, sounds as if the only thing separating them from legal immigrants is a few bits of paper that old Uncle Sam just forgot to give them.

In a shameless perversion of both fact and language, some of the more extreme proponents o...


Correct.
399   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 2:26pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

mell says
Otherwise it's lights out.


Facebook's head of advertising, Rob Goldman, got in a shitload of trouble for:

1. disproving that the Russians had placed any ads to influence the presidential election
2. proving that the Russians did indeed place many ads after the election deliberately to stir up divisive diversity issues, like race

Russia did harm America by dividing us. Diversity made it easy for them.

The solution is simple: stop promoting the harmful and divisive diversity agenda, and instead concentrate on unity as Americans of many origins. What we can really be proud of is assimilating people from all cultures, accepting and making Americans out of them so that their American identity is their primary identity.
400   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 22, 3:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
The solution is simple: stop promoting the harmful and divisive diversity agenda, and instead concentrate on unity as Americans of many origins. What we can really be proud of is assimilating people from all cultures, accepting and making Americans out of them so that their American identity is their primary identity.



It's also time to get State Universities to require Western Civ courses again. Western Civ i & II, plus a course in Western Philosophy and Science.

How many Liberal Arts majors know who Humphrey Davies or John Locke are? While they say that 32 Genders = Science, POCs must be segregated, and Chemistry is from Arabia (it isn't, in fact the word itself is Greek - Khemia - "To Pour Together".).

People have no clue that 95% of everything was invented by Westerners in the past 200-300 years. Clearly the superior civilization, and something to be proud of.

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