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Freedom to Offend

By Patrick following x   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 393,776 views   530 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


Patrick.net is a mostly-unmoderated anonymous forum where the fundamental human right to offend is protected. Freedom of speech is nothing but the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection because it will not be censored. Controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.

I especially want to people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. If your point of view is "offensive" to others, that is excellent! Enjoy your freedom here. Please try to keep it about ideas and not about people.

Do not attack other users or the site itself. Personal attacks solve nothing. The merit of a person is not important, only the merit of ideas.

If you don't like the site, go somewhere else. This site cost you nothing, was a lot of work for me, and doesn't even have advertising.

I often get requests to block "bad" people from the site, but don't believe that anyone is entirely bad or entirely good, only that the amount of each fluctuates over time.

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

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401   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 3:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Facebook's head of advertising, Rob Goldman, got in a shitload of trouble for:


If what he said was true, then why did he apologize?


https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-executive-rob-goldman-apologizes-to-company-and-robert-mueller/
402   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 3:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
* refusal to support ICE's defense of our southern border, to the degree that ICE employees and their families have been attacked


How many agencies do we need at the boarder?
US customs and border protection isn't enough?
403   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 22, 3:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
If what he said was true, then why did he apologize?


Because he wanted to keep his job.

People get fired for telling the truth all the time, especially in Silicon Valley. Case of James Damore in point.
404   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 22, 3:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Rocketmanjoe says
If what he said was true, then why did he apologize?


Because he wanted to keep his job.

People get fired for telling the truth all the time, especially in Silicon Valley. Case of James Damore in point.


That is one possiblity but it is also possible that he was wrong. So was it a requirement for him to apologize to Mueller? That seems a strange request of the Facebook.
405   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 23, 3:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Facebook's head of advertising, Rob Goldman, got in a shitload of trouble for:

1. disproving that the Russians had placed any ads to influence the presidential election
2. proving that the Russians did indeed place many ads after the election deliberately to stir up divisive diversity issues, like race


Did you ever stop to think that maybe it wasn't ads that the russians used before the election? Did they not get the most divisive president that they could hope for? Hilary won the popular vote, if you wanted less divisive you should have Been With Her.

How can you trust a guy who won't release his tax returns? Who hires foreign workers to be servers and cooks, jobs that could go to Americans? Who trusts Vladimir Putin?

If you truly want unity you are backing the wrong guy. He will never unite this country. I didn't Trust Trump 30 years ago I'm not going to start trusting the liar now.
406   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 23, 4:43am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Rocketmanjoe says
Diversity is what shaped this country


Weren't you just saying that the melting pot is what shaped this country?


Yes, It wouldn't be a melting pot without diversity, now would it?

Division divides us. Not diversity. Maybe it's time to question your sources?
407   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 23, 5:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Diversity weakens a country


@patrick Do you ever go out to eat? Do you only go to American restaurants? Me and my wife we go out to eat, we eat at Korean, Chinese, Italian, Mexican ... We have many diverse types of food to choose from. Wouldn't it suck if we didn't have a diverse selection of restaurants to choose from?

So why does our diversity of restaurants make this country weak?

Next, shoes. Wouldn't it suck if the only shoes we could buy are NIKE? Luckily we are able to choose from a diverse selection of brands.

Wouldn't it suck if you only had one stain of weed to choose from? But, no you don't, you have a diverse selection to choose from and that is what makes America great.

Diversity makes America great.

Politics have divided us. Keeping us from uniting as Americans. If people would just be honest and not just side with their team, speak up when they agree with someone not on their team, this would go along way to unite us. I'm pretty sure I've seen some do this here but few and far between. I agree that politics is what is dividing us but don't agree it is diversity.

We can unite as Americans without forgetting our many diverse roots. Those diverse roots should never be erased or forgotten and also shouldn't divided us as Americans.
408   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 23, 7:06am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
dr6B says
Patrick says
knock down wages for the poorest Americans

That is probably a sufficient argument for stopping illegal immigration.

I am sure that The Masters of Universe (TM) who own construction industries are all for higher profit margins due to employment of illegals.


Only if you pretend that business would pay higher wages to Americans


First off, doesn't Trump own construction companies?

More over don't the H2B unskilled foreign workers that Trump hired at Mar a Lago take jobs away from Americans and knock down their wages?

https://www.epi.org/publication/h2b-temporary-foreign-worker-program-for-labor-shortages-or-cheap-temporary-labor/

Trump just wants cheap temporary labor. Just because it's legal doesn't mean he should use H2B visa holders as his preferred method of employment for unskilled labor. Here is a perfect example of this... Just because abortion is legal doesn't mean it should be used as the preferred method of birth control.
409   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 23, 7:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Lol, yes, I'm "literally Hitler" now because I would like to see more unity as Americans.


Who said you were Hitler?

Rocketmanjoe says
That's not how it worked out for Hitler, you remember him? He really was against diversity. So you think Hitler was on to something? That's what it's sounding like to me.


The master race blonde hair and blue eyes that is about as non diverse as they come. Captain brought up another good example. Communism does not celebrate diversity.

So I ask you @patrick what diversity is it that you speak of that is tearing American apart?

Diversity is the spice of life it IS what makes this country great.
410   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2018 Sep 23, 8:30am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Variety of restaurants isn’t our strength.

Other countries have that too, yet still shitholes.

Diversity exists in shithole nations just the same. There is no benefit. It’s just neutral for most part. And destructive when it gets out of hand.



Rocketmanjoe says
Patrick says
Diversity weakens a country


@patrick Do you ever go out to eat? Do you only go to American restaurants? Me and my wife we go out to eat, we eat at Korean, Chinese, Italian, Mexican ... We have many diverse types of food to choose from. Wouldn't it suck if we didn't have a diverse selection of restaurants to choose from?

So why does our diversity of restaurants make this country weak?

Next, shoes. Wouldn't it suck if the only shoes we could buy are NIKE? Luckily we are able to choose from a diverse selection of brands.

Wouldn't it suck if you only had one stain of weed to choose from? But, no you don't, you have a diverse selection to choose from and that is what makes America great.

Diversity makes America great.

Politics have divided us. Keeping us from uniting as Americans. If people would just be honest and not just side with their te...
411   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 23, 9:34am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Only if you pretend that business would pay higher wages to Americans if only we eliminated illegals.


lol they do. You must have missed the countless news about companies paying farmers, bakery employees and construction workers more now that they can't find illegals ready to hire. This was a huge Trump success.
412   mell   ignore (2)   2018 Sep 23, 9:40am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

FortWayne says
Variety of restaurants isn’t our strength.

Other countries have that too, yet still shitholes.

Diversity exists in shithole nations just the same. There is no benefit. It’s just neutral for most part. And destructive when it gets out of hand.



Rocketmanjoe says
Patrick says
Diversity weakens a country


@patrick Do you ever go out to eat? Do you only go to American restaurants? Me and my wife we go out to eat, we eat at Korean, Chinese, Italian, Mexican ... We have many diverse types of food to choose from. Wouldn't it suck if we didn't have a diverse selection of restaurants to choose from?

So why does our diversity of restaurants make this country weak?

Next, shoes. Wouldn't it suck if the only shoes we could buy are NIKE? Luckily we are able to choose from a diverse selec...


Correct. Iceland doesn't have a large variety of ethnic food yet it's one of the safest countries due to very little ethnic diversity but relatively high intellect and education.
413   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 23, 10:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
@patrick Do you ever go out to eat? Do you only go to American restaurants? Me and my wife we go out to eat, we eat at Korean, Chinese, Italian, Mexican ...


Noone but the progressives, "You are appropriating other cultures' food", have a problem w exotic foods.
414   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Sep 23, 12:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
patrick what diversity is it that you speak of that is tearing American apart?


@Rocketmanjoe Please read the article:

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/
415   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Sep 23, 3:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Only if you pretend that business would pay higher wages to Americans if only we eliminated illegals.

As if the unemployed Americans would do those jobs, and as if business is ready to pay them more simply for being Americans.


"According to a former consultant to the bakery, MSI paid the black workers $14 an hour, versus the $10 an hour the Mexican workers were making through Labor Network."

https://chicago.suntimes.com/business/at-major-northwest-side-bakery-labor-issues-pit-blacks-vs-hispanics/

Ohhh idk is a 40% wage increase substantial? The factory is happy to employe $10 illegals. Crackdowns and a wall would result in enormous support for trump amongst all working class Americans. Blacks and latino american citizens will continue to get behind trump in huge numbers
416   jazz_music   ignore (6)   2018 Sep 23, 3:39pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aphroman says
Little Debbie Snack Cakes is in the business of poisoning Americans

Be fair, so is Jack Daniels ;-)
417   Elgatouno   ignore (3)   2018 Sep 24, 8:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
Ohhh idk is a 40% wage increase substantial? The factory is happy to employe $10 illegals. Crackdowns and a wall would result in enormous support for trump amongst all working class Americans.


If Trump really cared about the working class he wouldn't hiring foreign workers, he'd give those jobs to Americans. He wouldn't be raising tax's on the working class with tariffs. Face it Trump doesn't care about working class Americans.
418   LeonDurham   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 24, 8:23am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yep-Trump's "tax cut" was about as big of a middle finger to the working class as I've ever seen.
419   WookieMan   ignore (0)   2018 Sep 24, 8:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rocketmanjoe says
Politics have divided us. Keeping us from uniting as Americans. If people would just be honest and not just side with their team, speak up when they agree with someone not on their team, this would go along way to unite us. I'm pretty sure I've seen some do this here but few and far between. I agree that politics is what is dividing us but don't agree it is diversity.


I generally agree with what you're saying here and get your point of view, but did you go to college? That's not meant as an insult, serious question. And where? (Don't have to give exact school, maybe conference if it was a bigger school as my goal is to not dox anyone)

I went to UIC (University of IL Chicago). They were sooooooo proud of their diversity. You know what the campus looked like? The blacks had their group and would all hang. The whites would all hang out with the other whites. Asians with Asians, etc. Humans self segregate, for good or bad. It's just what we do. And in Chicago, many of these people have their own cultural "way of life" and they segregate themselves into their own large neighborhood or "micro" neighborhoods because that's what they WANT.

Diversity is forced and doesn't actually exist, which I think is what Patrick is somewhat getting at (tell me if I'm wrong). It's a social construct that is being forced on people to shame them for not hanging out with the black guy or the asian dude or the lesbian. My motto is hang out with who you want and everyone else that has a problem with that can go fuck themselves. Don't hate others, which there's no reason to, and we can all have a good time. Don't tell me though that I'm bad for not having a black or asian friend though, because that is what diversity has become. It's not about melting anything anymore.
420   jazz_music   ignore (6)   2018 Sep 24, 10:01am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

LeonDurham says
Yep-Trump's "tax cut" was about as big of a middle finger to the working class as I've ever seen.

Net Neutrality counts big as a "middle finger to the working class"

WTF the whole Heritage Foundation package was anti-American as hell. That's how we got the healthcare we got, it was that or nothing. Nothing doesn't work because too many people were dying. How do the Republicans get to do these things to us and never get thrown in jail for it.

We need to get one of us into our government to subvert the program away from the wealthy takers.
421   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 22, 6:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Suggestion: GIlding posts with a donation to Patnet.
422   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 22, 7:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Thanks, would not be hard.

What would gilding do exactly? Make the post more prominent? Gold border?
423   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Oct 22, 7:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Thanks, would not be hard.

What would gilding do exactly? Make the post more prominent? Gold border?


I'd have it stick to the top of the page as one scrolls through, so that everyone must read the gilded post as context for any thread. Want a new gilded post? Just outbid the last guy
424   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Oct 22, 7:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

And do it in pat.coins , new crypto
425   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 22, 8:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Dunno, seems like a violation of editorial integrity. I don't want to stoop anywhere near as low as, say, NPR or CNN, both of which are simply whores at this point.

I don't have much, but I still have my hymen, so to speak.
426   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 22, 8:28pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CBOEtrader says
I'd have it stick to the top of the page as one scrolls through, so that everyone must read the gilded post as context for any thread. Want a new gilded post? Just outbid the last guy


Something like this, but I was thinking more of a link to all the gold plated posts at the top of the page, maybe only the last one or two displaying.

Also, you could set a requirement that it have 3:1 Likes and a minimum of 10 likes to qualify, so it's not pure $$$.
427   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 22, 8:32pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I appreciate the ideas for monetization.

But why should anyone's post be granted a higher status just because they paid? Don't you want quality above all else?
428   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 22, 9:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
But why should anyone's post be granted a higher status just because they paid? Don't you want quality above all else?



Definitely, so I suggest some kind of minimum upvotes, and/or a high upvote/downvote ratio.

We can gild the top rated posts?

Anything I can do to help with monetization, I'm willing to help out.
429   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 22, 9:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Does gilding work that way on Reddit?

Or what about letting users tip other users, so good writers can get paid a bit? (With a modest 10% commission on that tip going to the site.) I could keep score on the site, and pay out when a balance gets above $20 or so. Would I have to issue a 1099 MISC then?
430   CBOEtrader   ignore (5)   2018 Oct 22, 11:32pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

If we're just brainstorming than I'd like to see a steam-it type concept wherein likes, quotes, upvotes, shares, etc... all count towards point totals per user, but maybe this just works on huge sites like quora.

Gamification and in-community currencies, it worked for world of warcraft. Just spitballin
431   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 23, 7:21am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I am grateful for the suggestions.
432   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Oct 28, 1:48pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Patrick.net is an uncensored anonymous forum.


How much longer do we play the "flag" game?
433   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 28, 1:56pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Or what about letting users tip other users, so good writers can get paid a bit? (With a modest 10% commission on that tip going to the site.) I could keep score on the site, and pay out when a balance gets above $20 or so. Would I have to issue a 1099 MISC then?


I wonder if we could make some post/area as a resource for various issues.

I've got several ideas for an Index of things, like tracking domestic terror attacks by cause or such like.

Then slap some ads on it or allow a tip jar, and you should make a big commission for hosting, 20%.
434   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 28, 4:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tell me more about what you were thinking.

Several times I have linked a certain class of post to a sub-database. Once for housing, once for a list of all SF tech companies, and I think a few others.

So you're saying that the sub-database would be maintained by one user, and updates would all be posted to a specific thread, right?
435   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 28, 4:42pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says
Tell me more about what you were thinking.

Several times I have linked a certain class of post to a sub-database. Once for housing, once for a list of all SF tech companies, and I think a few others.

So you're saying that the sub-database would be maintained by one user, and updates would all be posted to a specific thread, right?


Something like that.

Because Curious2 is good at listing Islamic attacks in the "Islam" thread, there was one (Goran? TPB? You?) on Leftwing attacks, and I had a Hillary thread (and others) that correlate all the stories/incidences about a certain topic. Fake Hate Crimes, that kind of thing.

I remember documenting Terror Attacks by Cause also, but I can no longer find the thread.

Think of this as something like an "Anti-Snopes", but it could also contain Reasons why Buying is a Bad Idea and other list/indexes of events/ideas.

Only the author(s) could comment in the main thread but tips or gripes could be kept in other posts underneath the main thread.

This way the original post could be updated with new information as it comes in. Then we could share with The_Donald, Twitter, and other places to drive traffic.
436   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 28, 4:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Only the author(s) could comment in the main thread but tips or gripes could be kept in other posts underneath the main thread.


So maybe the original post (which is what I think you mean by main thread) could itself have a little database that only the thread author could insert into, but everyone could search and read.

And tips or gripes would be comments as usual, below the original post.

Sound about right?
437   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 28, 5:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

That's exactly right.

Without having endless stickies at the top of the forum which suck, kind of a "Reference Thread" with a link at the top on the right side of Active/Comments/New/etc.

And you should monetize it, both because I'd pay for a few threads, and then you can charge for ads or ask for donations also..
438   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 28, 6:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OK, it's plan.
439   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Oct 30, 8:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce I need to pin down exactly how this new feature would look and work.

Are you thinking of essentially an embedded spreadsheet in a post?
440   HonkpilledMaster   ignore (4)   2018 Oct 30, 8:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It could be. I was originally thinking more of a plain regular post

BUT

An embedded spreadsheet would be easier to keep updated and users could sort it by Place, Cause/Motive, etc. rather than just Date.

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