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Freedom to Offend

By Patrick following x   2015 Feb 9, 7:43am 374,018 views   487 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    

Patrick.net is a mostly-unmoderated anonymous forum where the fundamental human right to offend is protected. Freedom of speech is nothing but the freedom to offend. Speech which offends no one needs no protection, but controversial ideas are inevitably offensive to someone and therefore need protection from censorship.

As MisterLearnToCode says:
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.

I especially want to people to have a place to say things they cannot say in person because of family or work or school pressure to conform to the politically correct opinions in their area.

If you are expressing a sincerely held point of view with good will, your comments and posts are very welcome here. If your point of view is "offensive" to others, that is excellent! Enjoy your freedom here. Please try to keep it about ideas and not about people.

Do not attack other users or the site itself. Personal attacks solve nothing. The merit of a person is not important, only the merit of ideas. As a helpful reminder when you might be veering into a personal attack, the use of the worlds you and your are highlighted in red. If you don't like the site, go somewhere else. This site cost you nothing, was a lot of work for me, and doesn't even have advertising.

I often get requests to block "bad" people from the site, but don't believe that anyone is entirely bad or entirely good, only that the amount of each fluctuates over time.

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956

Flag personal attacks with the "flag" link by each comment so that they will go into moderation where they will be reviewed by a moderator. Please do not flag comments just because you don't like them.

If you're not registered or don't have the "flag" link, please report personal comments to p@patrick.net by email.

Here are the original articles that made this site famous:

https://patrick.net/post/1282720/2015-07-11-ten-reasons-it-s-a-terrible-time-to-buy-an-expensive-house
https://patrick.net/post/1282721/2015-07-11-eight-groups-who-lie-about-the-housing-market
https://patrick.net/post/1282722/2015-07-11-37-bogus-arguments-about-housing

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« First    « Previous    Comments 441 - 480 of 487    Next »    Last »

442   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 1, 5:19pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

You’re always welcome back. Calling someone a troll is going to always result in a flag though. Now or later.
443   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Nov 1, 7:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anti_forum
444   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2018 Nov 1, 7:35pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Now that I see Mr. Magic's post was made her where it belongs, I think it should be approved, actually.

HappyGilmore, I don't know why you're @ing me. I only get the odd posts at odd hours. If it isn't blatantly insulting, I usually let it pass and only insist that posts complaining about pat.net get made here.

The fact is when Trump won many posters became toilet mouths full of invective. It used to be pretty much confined between Captain Shuddup and Dan and Iwog, but then it spread all over. That's why the change had to be made.
445   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2018 Nov 1, 7:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HappyGilmore says
@Patrick @twoscoopsofspaceforce

OK. Goran has become a large enough troll that it's no longer fun to come here. So I guess he wins.

If this is what you want the site to be, have at it.

Take a look at the blue wave thread and tell me I'm wrong. Iwog was right all along that having him as a moderator will kill the site. I stayed much longer than I should have...


Which of your accounts will be leaving the site?
446   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 1, 7:57pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

CovfefeButDeadly says
HappyGilmore says
@Patrick @twoscoopsofspaceforce

OK. Goran has become a large enough troll that it's no longer fun to come here. So I guess he wins.

If this is what you want the site to be, have at it.

Take a look at the blue wave thread and tell me I'm wrong. Iwog was right all along that having him as a moderator will kill the site. I stayed much longer than I should have...


Which of your accounts will be leaving the site?


I’m glad someone said it. HappyGilmore is 99% someone’s sock account. I would bet $1,000 cash on it.
447   MrMagic   ignore (11)   2018 Nov 1, 8:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce says
Now that I see Mr. Magic's post was made her where it belongs, I think it should be approved, actually.


I'd like to know why it wasn't approved too, it was posted under "Discuss Anything" since...

Patrick says
Patrick.net is an uncensored anonymous forum.


I posted a 100% true comment, if they aren't allowed to stay, what's left to discuss?
449   www365   ignore (0)   2018 Nov 26, 2:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

is a housing crash coming?
don't understand why people still buy houses at such insane price.
450   Patrick   ignore (1)   2018 Nov 26, 6:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

@www365 My own opinion is that Bay Area prices will decline for the next few years at least, but slowly.

One factor is that the new tax law limits the deductibility of interest for the rich. Also, I expect interest rates to rise.
451   jazz_music   ignore (6)   2018 Nov 28, 6:34pm   ↑ like (5)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The honey badger
452   HEYYOU   ignore (25)   2019 Jan 22, 1:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"Patrick.net is an uncensored anonymous forum."
No more moderators or ignorers?
453   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2019 Jan 27, 1:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Well it appears we can not discuss everything.
454   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 12:54pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

There are still moderators, and you can still ignore anyone you want, even me.

You can actually discuss everything. You just can't shit on other users or the site itself.

I changed the site tagline and the title of this post to "Freedom to Offend".
455   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 3:09pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
I'm genuinely curious. I used to read this site back then and it would be interesting to hear how it morphed from housing and economics into encouraging offensive language.



Trump got elected, against the absolute assurance of several popular prog/lib posters, and most of them got super beyond Butthurt to the max and couldn't make a post without personal insults.

Then they thought their freedom was taken away and flounced after Patrick tried to control insults after months of nasty behavior.

My favorite was a certain poster who agreed Trump-Russia was BS right up until the election results. Then not a week later was Mr. Trump-Russia-Collusion
456   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 3:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I'm all for the melting pot.

I don't like the salad bowl because there's no way to get rid of the Islamist Croutons.
457   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 3, 3:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
None of that makes any much sense, but it sounds like you had an argument with someone once here. That's personal to YOU, but my question was really about why this site was refocused to protecting the "freedom to offend" over so many other potential choices. I'm genuinely curious.



I was probably one of the least involved in the Great Prog Butthurt.

Ironically, the same people who wanted to ban Capt Shuddup for years based on his behavior, were the ones demanding that banning personal insults was "Anti Free Speech".
458   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 5:50pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
I'm not clear what this content on housing has to do with the freedom to be offensive? If the economics of housing is what put the site on the map, how did it evolve to a site focused on the freedom to be offensive?


I honestly believe that the rapidly growing suppression of free speech is a far greater problem than the cost of housing. The housing problem will solve itself eventually. The lack of free speech can lock us all into tyranny forever.
459   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 6:02pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
Islamist Croutons


Lol, exactly. Everything else is pretty easy to eat, but those croutons really don't belong in the salad at all. Kinda like putting bits of wood or rocks in your salad.
460   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 7:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

but those croutons really don't belong in the salad at all. Kinda like putting bits of wood or rocks in your salad.

Yep, and those who do eat the croutons annoy every one else when their loud chewing sounds like a rock crusher.
461   d6rB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 7:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

HeadSet says
loud chewing sounds like a rock crusher.

one could even say that their teeth explode
462   ForcedTQ   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 3, 9:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
Patrick says
the rapidly growing suppression of free speech


I couldn't disagree more strongly. Free speech is more proliferate at this moment than ever before in the history of mankind.

I think perhaps you are confusing free speech with lack of consequences. People can, and should be, held accountable for the consequences of their words.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that free speech without consequence is tyranny.


So you would believe that someone should be able to say something, and if someone else doesn't like it/agree with it/know it to be fact/etc. there should be consequences for the person that said it? Is not that Tyranny?
463   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 3, 9:16pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
I couldn't disagree more strongly. Free speech is more proliferate at this moment than ever before in the history of mankind.

I think perhaps you are confusing free speech with lack of consequences. People can, and should be, held accountable for the consequences of their words.


I'm talking about cases like James Damore at Google, who got fired for perfectly reasonable comments about why there are more male than female engineers.

Hint: it's not sexism.

Or how Larry Summers got fired from Harvard.
464   d6rB   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 4, 5:18am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

https://spectator.us/free-speech-threat/

Calm down! Your freedom of speech is not under threat
Anyone who has almost every aspect of their online life taken away from them is not ‘silenced’
Godfrey Elfwick

As usual, the tinfoil hat-wearing alt-right Nazis are crying out that free speech is under threat. This ridiculous overreaction always makes me laugh. These people have no idea what free speech is. They assume that freedom of speech means you are free to say whatever you want without severe consequences! Imagine that?! What kind of fascistic society would allow unfettered, non-regulated speech?

The companies listed above are all private companies. They are entitled to ban whomever they wish if they feel that their views or behavior are unpleasant. In fact, I would like to see this approach taken a step further. I cannot wait for the day utility companies start banning people from having access to vital services such as electricity, gas and running water. Nextra, Enel and Duke Energy are all perfectly within their rights to deny power to the homes of people whose views they deem problematic.

When it comes to the latest social media bans, I’ve seen cries of ‘Urr, they are trying to silence us!’ What utter rot! Anyone who has almost every aspect of their online life taken away from them is not ‘silenced’. They are still perfectly free to send letters and postcards to people (for now). There is absolutely nothing stopping them from using CB radio, or sending a telegraph. Nothing prevents them from tapping out messages in Morse code to their followers on an intricate system of underground pipes they could easily have built if they obtain the appropriate planning permission. With a little creativity, Alex Jones could communicate his vile thoughts via the medium of interpretive dance on any street corner he chooses. Tommy Robinson could scribble his racist views on scraps of paper, fold them up, insert them into bottles (not plastic) and hurl them into the sea for his fellow Islamophobes to discover while walking their pitbull terriers on the beach.
465   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 4, 6:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Then go there and do left wing activist there. You’ll get banned in 5 seconds...

You don’t appreciate the fact that you are still posting here. Ungreatful and so entitled.

Tarantula says
In fact, there seems to be no shortage of websites that proffer the most unpalatable "politically incorrect" content imaginable:

White aryan resistance: https://www.resist.com/
Jew Watch: http://www.jewwatch.com/
Holocaust Deniers: https://codoh.com/

There is an infinitude of "offensive" material on the Internet, without even considering all the wierd porn. I don't really see how it needs protecting
466   FortWayneIndiana   ignore (3)   2019 Mar 4, 6:57am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

In CA most things said on this forum will get you fired for life. CA doesn’t support freedom of speech. But it supports freedom of speech that left wants... such as gender selection, having gays refer to you as cis gendered, etc...

CA liberals live on one way street pushing society into tyranny.
467   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 13, 10:46am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

We gotta lot of old sockpuppet accounts resurfacing today.
468   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 13, 10:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anti_forum
469   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 13, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
We gotta lot of old sockpuppet accounts resurfacing today.


Why not take down gorans off topic post? Total bullshit
470   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 13, 10:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

personal
471   Quigley   ignore (0)   2019 Mar 13, 10:52am   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tarantula says
There is an infinitude of "offensive" material on the Internet, without even considering all the wierd porn. I don't really see how it needs protecting


Let’s start by banning anyone who talks like a Leftist. See how it works? Thought not. For a dude who is supposed to be educated, you aren’t displaying any wisdom.
472   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 13, 11:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Elgatouno says
police your own this is why a one sided moderation policy is fucking stupid


Point me to another current user bringing up a sockpuppet in the recent past that you're complaining about, thanks.
475   MAGA_BOMBER   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 15, 11:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

FortWayneIndiana says
pushing society into tyranny.

offending is no great accomplishment, Offensive speech isolates people and undermines relationships permanently because all relationships are based on respect.

Ask a pre-teenager and he will explain this tyranny to even a cult moron.
476   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 15, 11:25pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGA_BOMBER says
offending is no great accomplishment, Offensive speech isolates people and undermines relationships permanently because all relationships are based on respect.


Respect is to be earned, not given away.

We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.

Some people are triggered by somebody saying "The Earth is a fucking oblate spheroid, not fucking flat."
477   MAGA_BOMBER   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 15, 11:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
Some people are triggered by somebody saying "The Earth is a fucking oblate spheroid, not fucking flat."

Try talking that way to someone related to your employment.

BOOM

You have no worry about that particular problem?

BOOM
478   MisterLearnToCode   ignore (4)   2019 Mar 15, 11:35pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MAGA_BOMBER says
Try talking that way to someone related to your employment.

BOOM

You have no worry about that particular problem?

BOOM



So what are you saying, in a democracy everybody should only talk like their boss is around?

Is that the ACLU's new stance on Free Speech: you can only talk as if you're at work on the boss' time and dime?

Sounds scary.
479   Patrick   ignore (1)   2019 Mar 15, 11:50pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

MisterLearnToCode says
We can't ban offensive speech because then we'd be at the mercy of the most easily offended; the lowest common denominator, and wouldn't be able to discuss jack shit.


Yes, exactly!
480   Elgatouno   ignore (2)   2019 Mar 16, 7:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

anti_forum

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