patrick.net

Iceland is freakin' awesome.

Yes good stuff, and as I'm sure you will agree that the addendum of the Rothbard quote is excellent,

This goes to another one of Lip's favorites, Tom Wood's had a guest a while back about the fragility of the banking system is because of politics influencing it so much. E.G. the US system has had 17 banking crises since 1840 where as Canada has had 0. The key being that Iceland is considering a system that is autonomous as is Canada's.

Blurtman says

According to a study by four central bankers, the country has had "over 20 instances of financial crises of different types" since 1875, with "six serious multiple financial crisis episodes occurring every 15 years on average".

Color me skeptical - the history before 1875 was likely also pockmarked with financial crises, same as in the United States under the gold standard - but good on Iceland for trying this. I can't imagine how this would ever happen in the United States.

These are the sorts of experiments possible in a nation with 1/1000th the population of the United States.

It would be nice to live in a society where the financial industry has little power.

HydroCabron says

These are the sorts of experiments possible in a nation with 1/1000th the population of the United States.

Makes no difference it would be scalable.

indigenous says

Makes no difference it would be scalable.

Not discussing scale of the financial system: scale of the political system.

It's a lot easier to persuade a few dozen thousand people to try something new, in a society the size of a California suburb where there are few interest groups to brainwash terrified religious fanatics that it's communism, fascism or whatever. There's simply no possibility of using culture-warrior brainwashing techniques to fight such a plan.

HydroCabron says

There's simply no possibility of using culture-warrior brainwashing techniques to fight such a plan.

Good point, Ron Paul has been trying to just audit the Fed since day one with no luck, maybe his son will have better luck.

indigenous says

Ron Paul has been trying to just audit the Fed

Don't look behind the curtain!

Yup just a big charade. As indicated the money supply does not need to change at all. The interest rates are much more effectively set by the market place.

They can evaporate losses, i.e, buy crap them their chums and disappear it

Planning to visit Iceland this summer, seems awesome.

Yup just a big charade. As indicated the money supply does not need to change at all. The interest rates are much more effectively set by the market place.

Right. If only we still had the same money supply as we had in 1915, everything would be great. Because, the market place. Interesting rates

indigenous says

Ron Paul has been trying to just audit the Fed since day one with no luck, maybe his son will have better luck.

He's all talk and no action. In Congress 14 years and no accomplishments to his name. The son is an even bigger fraud.

HydroCabron says

Not discussing scale of the financial system: scale of the political system.

It's a lot easier to persuade a few dozen thousand people to try something new, in a society the size of a California suburb where there are few interest groups to brainwash terrified religious fanatics that it's communism, fascism or whatever. There's simply no possibility of using culture-warrior brainwashing techniques to fight such a plan.

It's not at all the scale of the political system. The problem is the ease that the US two party political system can be manipulated by large amounts of money. Money well spent considering the size of the paybacks to many industries. In a parliamentary system where there are many parties and coalitions have to form to govern it is much much more difficult for money to influence the process. The amount of money spent on elections in other countries is tiny.

HydroCabron says

t's a lot easier to persuade a few dozen thousand people to try something new, in a society the size of a California suburb where there are few interest groups to brainwash terrified religious fanatics that it's communism, fascism or whatever. There's simply no possibility of using culture-warrior brainwashing techniques to fight such a plan.

If I wasn't such an agnostic/atheist I would shout out Amen, HydroCarbon. This kind of reminds me of that old joke "How many Austrian economists does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: Zero, because if the light bulb needed changing the market would have changed it."

bob2356 says

US two party political system

You just have to vote for one because the other might win.

errc says

Right. If only we still had the same money supply as we had in 1915, everything would be great. Because, the market place. Interesting rates

The quote button must be hard to understand for pot heads...

Lets see, listen to Murray Rothbard or a dope? Hmm hard to choose. Gee I think I will listen to the greatest economist of the 20th century.

finehoe says

He's all talk and no action. In Congress 14 years and no accomplishments to his name.

Au Contraire hoe, at the very least he changed the zeitgeist, he put Libertarians in the public eye by running for president, he sponsored 100s of bills in congress, he started the Ron Paul School, he delivered thousands of babies as a Dr, he put pressure to audit the Fed, and most of all he woke up some of the herd. But obviously not you...

bob2356 says

It's not at all the scale of the political system. The problem is the ease that the US two party political system can be manipulated by large amounts of money. Money well spent considering the size of the paybacks to many industries. In a parliamentary system where there are many parties and coalitions have to form to govern it is much much more difficult for money to influence the process. The amount of money spent on elections in other countries is tiny.

Any recommended reading on this subject?

finehoe says

He's all talk and no action. In Congress 14 years and no accomplishments to his name.

That's not true - his presidential campaigns provided vast amounts of salary money to his family members, so there's that.

HydroCabron says

That's not true - his presidential campaigns provided vast amounts of salary money to his family members, so there's that.

The fact that the mutts try and patronize this fine individual is mildly reassuring.

indigenous says

Au Contraire hoe, at the very least he changed the zeitgeist, he put Libertarians in the public eye by running for president, he sponsored 100s of bills in congress, he started the Ron Paul School, he delivered thousands of babies as a Dr, he put pressure to audit the Fed, and most of all he woke up some of the herd. But obviously not you...

He delivered thousands of babies on the floor of the House? Are they all named H.R. 1001 and the like?

I'm talking about his accomplishments as a legislator, you fool. Z-I-L-C-H

Call it Crazy says

You mean like Hillary Clinton was in her 8 years as Senator and S of S for 4 years, and Elizabeth Warren currently is?

What the fuck do they have to do with Ron Paul?

finehoe says

I'm talking about his accomplishments as a legislator, you fool. Z-I-L-C-H

100s of bills, pushed audit the Fed, raised awareness of Libertarians

IOW fuck off

indigenous says

100s of bills, pushed audit the Fed, raised awareness of Libertarians

Fundraising checks always cashed promptly, white separatists published.

HydroCabron says

white separatists published.

Citation, you mutt, otherwise go fuck yourself

It's how candidates speechify that's the thing.

indigenous says

HydroCabron says

white separatists published.

Citation, you mutt, otherwise go fuck yourself

The quotes are direct from his newsletters. He admitted responsibility for them, but denied penning them. He is a shrewd businessman, and knows that racist cash spends the same as anyone else's.

You won't find anything objectionable here, but to normal people this is vile:

"Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

"We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational."

After the Los Angeles riots, one article in a newsletter claimed, "Order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks."

One referred to Martin Luther King Jr. as "the world-class philanderer who beat up his paramours" and who "seduced underage girls and boys."

Paul made almost a million in one year from this stuff, possibly penned by Lew Rockwell.

Why?

From the article where I dredged this up

The Gold Standard and non-interventionism have long been pushed to the fringe of our politics, and ambitious people tend to dive into the mainstream. That means that some of the 'talent' that marginalized ideas attract will be odd and unstable.

There are two strategies for dealing with this problem. You purge your movement of cranks to preserve credibility and risk alienating a chunk of supporters. Or you let everyone in your movement fly their freak flag and live with the consequences. Ron Paul, being a libertarian, has always done the latter.

More fun:

Here’s what Paul told CNN on December 21:

PAUL: I never read that stuff. I never — I would never — I came — I was probably aware of it 10 years after it was written… Well, you know, we talked about [the newsletters] twice yesterday at CNN. Why don’t you go back and look at what I said yesterday on CNN, and what I’ve said for 20-some years. It was 22 years ago. I didn’t write them. I disavow them and that’s it.

Paul’s denials, however, are not supported by the public record. When the newsletters first arose as an issue in 1996, Paul didn’t deny authorship. Instead, Paul personally repeated and defended some of the most incendiary racial claims in the newsletters.

In May 1996, Paul was confronted in an interview by the Dallas Morning News about a line that appeared in a 1992 newsletter, under the headline “Terrorist Update”: “If you have ever been robbed by a black teenaged male, you know how unbelievably fleet of foot they can be.” His response:

Dr. Paul denied suggestions that he was a racist and said he was not evoking stereotypes when he wrote the columns. He said they should be read and quoted in their entirety to avoid misrepresentation…

In the interview, he did not deny he made the statement about the swiftness of black men.

“If you try to catch someone that has stolen a purse from you, there is no chance to catch them,” Dr. Paul said.

Again, you won't see any of this is offensive.

Ok so your carping is centered around:

Two prominent donors are leaders in what may be the most ambitious white nationalist political movement in the U.S., American Third Position. One is William Johnson, the group's chairman. Another is Virginia Abernethy, a former Vanderbilt professor who is listed as a director of the party.

Abernethy has given Paul at least $2,451 for this election. Johnson has donated at least $3.349.

Johnson, in an email, explained why he contributed to the Texas congressman's presidential campaign:

"In my opinion, Ron Paul is the most principled politician of his generation. He forthrightly states what he believes, at all times. He is a man of his word. He states that he does not recognize groups -- only individuals. He states that he does not possess any degree of racial consciousness. Those are his actual beliefs and the nation should believe that that is his position."

"I will continue to support Ron Paul and his son, Sen. Rand Paul, because it is the right thing to do," Johnson said, adding that "in many respects it is 'unrequited love.' Ron Paul has said that he does not want the support of white nationalists because 'it muddies the waters.' This is true, because our support brings with it certain baggage that Dr. Paul does not want.

Lets see compare Ron Paul's pecadillos to those of the Clintons or similiar, gee you are straining awfully hard to find a chink in his armor. So fuck off mutt.

indigenous says

100s of bills, pushed audit the Fed, raised awareness of Libertarians

Of the 620 bills that Paul had sponsored, only one had been signed into law – a lifetime success rate of less than 0.3%. The sole measure authored by Paul that was ultimately enacted allowed for a federal customhouse to be sold to a local historic preservation society (H.R. 2121 in 2009)

Gee, if only we could have more Congressmen as effective as Ron Paul.

indigenous says

go fuck yourself

indigenous says

fuck off

Wingnuts have a sad when someone does to them what they do to everyone else.

finehoe says

Of the 620 bills that Paul had sponsored, only one had been signed into law – a lifetime success rate of less than 0.3%. The sole measure authored by Paul that was ultimately enacted allowed for a federal customhouse to be sold to a local historic preservation society (H.R. 2121 in 2009)

Gee, if only we could have more Congressmen as effective as Ron Paul.

How does that compare to others? And of the others success how many them involved an increase in spending?

You make a good point about the integrity of Ron Paul continuing the good fight without any agreement. It is similiar to CIC's fight on Pat.net

indigenous says

You make a good point about the integrity of Ron Paul continuing the good fight without any agreement.

LOL. I guess that's one way to spin it.

finehoe says

LOL. I guess that's one way to spin it.

And yours is another, jumping over the major point to find some extremely minor ones to follow your agenda.

Compare that to Benghazi, hidden emails that will never see the light of the day, White Water, daughter being married to the son of a convicted felon for multiple counts of fraud. Yea but taking 6k in contributions from someone who he publicly does not support, yea that makes sense, NOT.

indigenous says

You make a good point about the integrity of Ron Paul continuing the good fight without any agreement. It is similiar to CIC's fight on Pat.net

In the kingdom of the brain dead, the merely comatose man is king.

HydroCabron says

In the kingdom of the brain dead, the merely comatose man is king.

You would know...

indigenous says

jumping over the major point to find some extremely minor ones to follow your agenda.

Sorry, it's not a "minor point" that he never got any legislation passed. And bringing up Clinton as somehow "proof" of how accomplished Ron Paul is just shows you got nothin'.

finehoe says

Sorry, it's not a "minor point" that he never got any legislation passed. And bringing up Clinton as somehow "proof" of how accomplished Ron Paul is just shows you got nothin'

No you stupid fuck, he is one of the few that has not been co-opted into the cesspool.

indigenous says

This goes to another one of Lip's favorites, Tom Wood's had a guest a while back about the fragility of the banking system is because of politics influencing it so much. E.G. the US system has had 17 banking crises since 1840 where as Canada has had 0. The key being that Iceland is considering a system that is autonomous as is Canada's.

And well regulated - Canada still has New Deal-era, Keynesian inspired bank regulation and unlike the US, did not start removing it in the 80s and 90s.

thunderlips11 says

And well regulated - Canada still has New Deal-era, Keynesian inspired bank regulation and unlike the US, did not start removing it in the 80s and 90s.

No that is not correct, how can you be so well read and still so ignorant?

The banking system that Canadian has started in their colonial times:

"By contrast, in Canada, primarily because colonial Britain wanted to limit the autonomy of French Canada, banking policy was centralized in the national government. As a result, Canada ended up with the complete antithesis of the American system: a small number of very large banks with an extensive and diversified network of nationwide branches, which proved to be relatively resilient during hard times."

The US system is actually fragile because the framers did not want to have central banks so we ended up with local banks. The problem is that central banks have a diverse loan portfolio, where as the local banks are usually saddled with loans to the local businesses, which makes them fragile by design, so in Houston e.g. the banks would be dependant on the Oil Patch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/books/review/fragile-by-design-by-charles-w-calomiris-and-stephen-h-haber.html

indigenous says

No that is not correct, how can you be so well read and still so ignorant?

The banking system that Canadian has started in their colonial times:

What does any of what you wrote have to do with regulation? You're describing Polypoly (aka Perfect Competition) vs. Oligopoly. That being said, of course it's likely that Canada would be dominated by a few Large Firms, since it's population is a fraction of the USA's, and always has been.

As for the Framers, we had several incarnations of Central Banks already by the time of Jackson.

thunderlips11 says

What does any of what you wrote have to do with regulation? You're describing Polypoly (aka Perfect Competition) vs. Oligopoly. That being said, of course it's likely that Canada would be dominated by a few Large Firms, since it's population is a fraction of the USA's, and always has been.

We's talking about banking right?

It has to do with regulating the banks. The point is 17 banking crises for the home team since 1840 and ZERO for the Canucs.