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Israel is creating a water surplus using desalination


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2015 Apr 6, 12:24pm   20,800 views  29 comments

by RWSGFY   ➕follow (4)   💰tip   ignore  

"IDE has built three of Israel's five largest desalination plants, including the Sorek project that meets 20 percent of Israel's municipal water needs. IDE has also built China's largest desalination plant and is building the largest desalination plant in the United States: a $1 billion facility in Carlsbad, Calif."

http://www.eenews.net/stories/1059994202

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1   RWSGFY   2015 Apr 6, 12:28pm  

Remind me, why are we building "slowest high-speed rail in the world" instead of more of these puppies?

2   zzyzzx   2015 Apr 6, 12:29pm  

California would rather spend money on a useless train.

3   tovarichpeter   2015 Apr 6, 3:20pm  

Israel built both a high speed railway and desalination plants. California should do the same.

4   anotheraccount   2015 Apr 6, 4:25pm  

tovarichpeter says

California should do the same.

I bet Israel did not spend 100B+ to build a speed train. It would be much better to invest all of that money into desalination and solar.

Israel GDP is 290B. California GDP is 2T+.

5   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2015 Apr 6, 6:35pm  

Straw Man says

Remind me, why are we building "slowest high-speed rail in the world" instead of more of these puppies?

Because our Economist/Scientist/Political pundits said it was inefficient to produce water through desalination.
If it cost us $250,000 to make a decent electric car, a desalination plant would cost more than the national debt.

6   Strategist   2015 Apr 6, 6:45pm  

tr6 says

tovarichpeter says

California should do the same.

I bet Israel did not spend 100B+ to build a speed train. It would be much better to invest all of that money into desalination and solar.

Israel GDP is 290B. California GDP is 2T+.

If we are heading towards driverless cars that pretty much eliminate accidents, we could safely go 150mph with the car. I would think a high speed rail system is already obsolete. The car would even be a lot faster going from LA to Las Vegas, than flying there, because of all the airport hassles.

7   socal2   2015 Apr 6, 7:17pm  

Strategist says

The car would even be a lot faster going from LA to Las Vegas, than flying there, because of all the airport hassles.

I want human carrying drones. Just needs to go about 60mph at 1,000 feet. It picks you up like Uber, computer flown, parachutes and airbags for safety - would think it would eliminate at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the daily commuters. Especially in high traffic areas like California and the Northeast.

Building new trains and more roads is so 19-20th Century! There is a big open sky out there!

8   Entitlemented   2015 Apr 6, 7:34pm  

Israel building desal, and Iran building nukes.

No wonder why everyone is so mad at Israel, - those people dont believe in Malinvestment of Resources.

9   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2015 Apr 7, 7:12am  

Entitlemented says

Israel building desal, and Iran building nukes.

Iran is going to need water to keep the reactor rods cool aint they?

Mo Money, Mo Money Mo Money!

10   justme   2015 Apr 7, 10:03am  

Strategist says

If we are heading towards driverless cars that pretty much eliminate accidents, we could safely go 150mph with the car. I would think a high speed rail system is already obsolete. The car would even be a lot faster going from LA to Las Vegas, than flying there, because of all the airport hassles.

Even if one could safely have driverless cars at 150 mph, have you even thought about how massively ineffecient a car is (MPG) at speed 150mph? Your understanding of physics is lamentable.

Then there is the the effect of passing freeway on/off ramps every 1 minute (2.5 miles at 150mph). Think about the cars that need to get ON and OFF the ramps with acceleration/deceleration from 150 mph to 35 mph in a matter of 10 seconds, maybe even less. It is going to take much more than just self-driving cars to make such a system work (lots and lots of coordination of motion, and inevitable slowdowns). And then there is the energy efficiency problem.

Even an airplane would be better than that. And high-speed rail from LA to Las Vegas would beat your proposal by factors of 10.

Better yet, just put Las Vegas out of business by establishing gambling zones and other sin-zones in every city. Then people could just go there instead of wasting massive amounts of oil and other energy on going to Las Vegas.

11   Entitlemented   2015 Apr 7, 10:36am  

tr6 says

I bet Israel did not spend 100B+ to build a speed train. It would be much better to invest all of that money into desalination and solar.

Israel GDP is 290B. California GDP is 2T+

Folks - I have observed that countries with GDPs $860K.

Every person bless to be alive has to get up in the morning put there pants / dress / shoes on and go to work. Unless we have huge malinvestments like uber entitlements, Lawyers charging $400/hour.

The harm done by Malinvestment does not just subtract directly away from the productive investment - it aggregately stifles major potential innovation at every quarter, every nook and cranny of curious innovation is suppressed, bullied by bureaucracy, and the legal eagles that create beauracrasy.

NEWSFLASH - US SPENDS $860,000,000,000 ON LEGAL COSTS ANNUALLY!

With one year of legal costs the US could:

1. Start and nearly complete high speed trains,
2. Commence 100s of clean technology R&D efforts
3. Graduate 1M curious scientists.
4 We could use some of that to under what the community disorganizers have done to jobs, to jack up housing prices, to destroy the US economy.

12   justme   2015 Apr 7, 10:50am  

I agree with Entitlemented that malinvestment is ALWAYS bad.

It is a common meme among right-wingers that only PUBLIC (taxpayer) malinvestment is bad. Somehow they think of private malinvestment as "competition", "winners versus losers", or "I did not pay for it so it does not matter" (*).

I'm glad to see that at least one right-winger has observed that private malinvestment is as big of a waste as public malinvestment.

(*) By the way, you DID pay for (build) that (cf. Obama joke). Or rather the bank lendt out your deposit to a bad investment that built that, and then lost the money because it was a malinvestment. And then the bank was insolvent, causing recession. And the Fed had to reduce the interest rate so that you, the depositor, did not get a return on your investment, while the bank got to recuperate the loss via higher profit margin between deposit and loan interest rate.

13   HydroCabron   2015 Apr 7, 12:35pm  

justme says

I'm glad to see that at least one right-winger has observed that private malinvestment is as big of a waste as public malinvestment.

(*) By the way, you DID pay for (build) that (cf. Obama joke). Or rather the bank lendt out your deposit to a bad investment that built that, and then lost the money because it was a malinvestment. And then the bank was insolvent, causing recession. And the Fed had to reduce the interest rate so that you, the depositor, did not get a return on your investment, while the bank got to recuperate the loss via higher profit margin between deposit and loan interest rate.

Reminds me of the line from Libertarianism in one Lesson: "Money that government touches spontaneously combusts, destroying the economy. Money retained by individuals grows the economy, even if literally burnt. "

14   RWSGFY   2015 Apr 7, 12:43pm  

CaptainShuddup says

Iran is going to need water to keep the reactor rods cool aint they?

Seawater is perfectly fine for cooling nuclear reactor. This is why many of them were built right on the shore.

15   gsr   2015 Apr 7, 1:24pm  

HydroCabron says

Reminds me of the line from Libertarianism in one Lesson: "Money that government touches spontaneously combusts, destroying the economy. Money retained by individuals grows the economy, even if literally burnt. "

How about measuring the probability instead of talking in absolutism? Which one is more likely? Individuals using their own earnings will make better decision for their respective lives, or a single centrally planned bureaucracy with *OPM* will make the best decision for everyone?

16   HydroCabron   2015 Apr 7, 1:42pm  

gsr says

How about measuring the probability instead of talking in absolutism?

That's my point. I believe in probabilities; libertarians believe in absolutes.

I personally believe private firms allocate capital more efficiently in most cases, and that the problem of advocating for a government solution for any problem is that the problem must be intractable to private solutions in order to justify the reduced inefficiency of government activity.

Most liberals acknowledge this, even flaming ones like J.K. Galbraith (I'm basically quoting him above).

gsr says

Individuals using their own earnings will make better decision for their respective lives

And you proceed precisely to absolutes: "will make better decisions". How about measuring the probability instead of talking in absolutism (should be "absolutes", since "absolutism is a form of government").

There are many cases where this is demonstrably not true: people gamble away their kids' school tuition, buy a Corvette which they never drive when they're not saving enough to retire on, etc.

gsr says

or a single centrally planned bureaucracy with *OPM* will make the best decision for everyone?

Another absolute. I don't see motor vehicle licensing and highway construction and maintenance as a "single centrally planned bureaucracy" making the best decision for everyone.

17   gsr   2015 Apr 7, 2:35pm  

HydroCabron says

That's my point. I believe in probabilities; libertarians believe in absolutes.

No, and BTW, it is not just about efficiency. It is a moral question. If you don't understand it. Watch this video:
http://alibertarianfuture.com/famous-libertarians/famous-libertarian-quotes/penn-jillette-explains-his-libertarian-view-bill-maher/#sthash.gJrGQ5yc.dpbs

HydroCabron says

There are many cases where this is demonstrably not true: people gamble away their kids' school tuition, buy a Corvette which they never drive when they're not saving enough to retire on, etc.

Do you want to provide more incentive for that or less?
Also, if you indeed want to have a social/collectivist program, it is always (yes, always) better within a smaller community where everyone voluntarily agrees with that anyway. A program that works for California may not work for Oregon.

HydroCabron says

gsr says

or a single centrally planned bureaucracy with *OPM* will make the best decision for everyone?

Another absolute.

Yes, indeed. If a program is that good, I am sure it can be implementable in a lower level. You don't need violence to enforce that from the top.

HydroCabron says

I don't see motor vehicle licensing and highway construction and maintenance as a "single centrally planned bureaucracy" making the best decision for everyone.

I would say this is probably the biggest reason for the urban sprawl. We would have much less of that if people actually had to pay for longer pipelines, transmission lines, roads etc.
Also, nothing can be privatized overnight. But more competition is usually a good thing for the end user. There are many highly efficient private highways, including one in France.
And, all DMVs are not equal. California DMV, based on what I know, is highly inefficient.

18   Entitlemented   2015 Apr 7, 2:46pm  

justme says

I'm glad to see that at least one right-winger has observed that private malinvestment is as big of a waste as public malinvestment.

A certain Keynian named Keynes suggested that when the economy was doing well, that money would be socked away and that money not be wasted.

This makes me pragmatic.

The infinite QE and with the biggest Malinvestment in US histor and wealthy paper pushers in the private/publics sector is not Keynsian at all. But liberals call in Keynsian, because of the tight coupling between Liberalism and Malinvestment.

19   Entitlemented   2015 Apr 7, 2:46pm  

justme says

I'm glad to see that at least one right-winger has observed that private malinvestment is as big of a waste as public malinvestment.

A certain Keynsian named Keynes suggested that when the economy was doing well, that money would be socked away and that money not be wasted.

This makes me pragmatic.

The infinite QE and with the biggest Malinvestment in US histor and wealthy paper pushers in the private/publics sector is not Keynsian at all. But liberals call in Keynsian, because of the tight coupling between Liberalism and Malinvestment.

20   justme   2015 Apr 7, 3:18pm  

I can again agree with the statement that QE is a massive PRIVATE malinvestment at PUBLIC expense.

How does that sound to you, Entitlemented?

21   Strategist   2015 Apr 7, 3:38pm  

justme says

Strategist says

If we are heading towards driverless cars that pretty much eliminate accidents, we could safely go 150mph with the car. I would think a high speed rail system is already obsolete. The car would even be a lot faster going from LA to Las Vegas, than flying there, because of all the airport hassles.

Even if one could safely have driverless cars at 150 mph, have you even thought about how massively ineffecient a car is (MPG) at speed 150mph? Your understanding of physics is lamentable.

I did not think of that. :( I'm sure the mileage would go down substantially from40mpg at 70mph to 15mpg at 150mph? Or something like that?
Anyway, the future lies with electric cars. Tesla gives 2.5 to 3 miles per KiloWatt. A KW from solar panels ends up costing 7 or 8 cents. Eventually a KW will cost 2 cents or less. At that point efficiency will be less of an issue. Also, if cars can go 150mph, they will be on the road a lot less, easing traffic congestion.

22   Strategist   2015 Apr 7, 3:40pm  

justme says

Better yet, just put Las Vegas out of business by establishing gambling zones and other sin-zones in every city. Then people could just go there instead of wasting massive amounts of oil and other energy on going to Las Vegas.

That is not very likely. People love going to Las Vegas. Not just the gambling, but a whole host of entertainment . "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" :)

23   RWSGFY   2015 Apr 7, 8:04pm  

Strategist says

Even if one could safely have driverless cars at 150 mph, have you even thought about how massively ineffecient a car is (MPG) at speed 150mph? Your understanding of physics is lamentable.

I did not think of that. :( I'm sure the mileage would go down substantially from40mpg at 70mph to 15mpg at 150mph? Or something like that?

Two or even three times worse than that. IF your car is even capable to go up to 150mph (which is not likely for 40mpg@70mph car).

24   Philistine   2015 Apr 7, 8:26pm  

Strategist says

That is not very likely. People love going to Las Vegas. Not just the gambling, but a whole host of entertainment .

Yeah, Vegas has so much more going on than gambling, which is increasingly a smaller percentage of their economy. Remember in the '80s when hotel rooms were free and the buffet was $12.99??? Yeah, not what it's like to go to Vegas today. Native American gambling establishments have brought gambling to a zipcode near you for the real hardcore types. Nobody *needs* to go to Vegas just for that (or the Strip's lousy odds).

justme says

Even an airplane would be better than that. And high-speed rail from LA to Las Vegas

Not sure. I go between LA and LV on a monthly basis for business. It's always been a toss-up if LAX or I-15 is better. By air, it's basically 4 hours with all the LAX and LAS nonsense--yeah, the flight is 50 minutes, but everything else is a drag. Driving can be 4 hours, or 6 hours, depending what day of the week and traffic. Yes. There is such a thing as a 2-hour traffic jam in the middle of nowhere in a desert.

High speed rail could make more sense under ideal conditions, but the bureaucrats, politicians, private contractors, and special interests would (they did already?) find all sorts of ways to fuck it up.

25   Strategist   2015 Apr 7, 8:38pm  

Philistine says

Strategist says

That is not very likely. People love going to Las Vegas. Not just the gambling, but a whole host of entertainment .

Yeah, Vegas has so much more going on than gambling, which is increasingly a smaller percentage of their economy. Remember in the '80s when hotel rooms were free and the buffet was $12.99??? Yeah, not what it's like to go to Vegas today. Native American gambling establishments have brought gambling to a zipcode near you for the real hardcore types. Nobody *needs* to go to Vegas just for that (or the Strip's lousy odds).

I was in college in the 1980's. $25 rooms at Circus Circus, 5 of us sharing, and breakfast buffet was $1.99. The casinos made money in gambling, and subsidized everything. Now people go for shows etc. so Vegas gambling can't subsidize it all and have to charge. We got a 24 hour buffet pass last month at the Paris for $69.99, and I thought that was a bargain.

26   justme   2015 Apr 7, 9:06pm  

Strategist says

did not think of that. :( I'm sure the mileage would go down substantially from40mpg at 70mph to 15mpg at 150mph? Or something like that?

More like 8 mpg at best. Quite atrociously bad.

Strategist says

Anyway, the future lies with electric cars. Tesla gives 2.5 to 3 miles per KiloWatt. A KW from solar panels ends up costing 7 or 8 cents. Eventually a KW will cost 2 cents or less. At that point efficiency will be less of an issue. Also, if cars can go 150mph, they will be on the road a lot less, easing traffic congestion.

Electric cars have the same wind resistance as any other car of the same shape. There is no free lunch for anyone, and that includes Tesla. Any available solar power can more efficiently propel a train rather than a bunch of electric cars at 150mph. There will not be any disposable solar power for the next hundred years (covered that in other thread).

27   Dan8267   2015 Apr 7, 11:56pm  

Straw Man says

Israel is creating a water surplus using desalination

So Israel is going to have lots of water in a desert surrounded by tens of millions of Muslims that already hate Israel. What could go wrong?

28   Strategist   2015 Apr 8, 7:19am  

Dan8267 says

So Israel is going to have lots of water in a desert surrounded by tens of millions of Muslims that already hate Israel. What could go wrong?

One Israeli with brains is enough for 100 Arabs without. :)

29   RWSGFY   2015 Apr 8, 11:32am  

Dan8267 says

So Israel is going to have lots of water in a desert surrounded by tens of millions of Muslims that already hate Israel. What could go wrong?

Muslims will demand water distributed to them for free because "it's a human right"?

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