patrick.net

I have a better explanation. The Manager of the Denny's across the street said a few minutes before the SWAT team showed up, all the bikers cleared out.

The best thing criminals can do for society is kill each other. Why stop them?
Hey SBH and Dan, is that human rights abuse? You have no problem watching ISIS rape, torture, enslave and murder innocent Yazidi women and children. So I figure you would enjoy criminals shoot each other.

Call it Crazy says

Just remember, it's the evil gun's fault!!! Since no white cops were involved, you didn't hear a peep from the MSM, did you??

What's wrong with you? They are allowed to kill because poverty made them do it.
ps.. If you want to solve this silly nonsense about White Cops killing Blacks being racism by default, we should only hire Black Cops. That would put Jackson and Sharpton out of business. :)

These are just hijinks. No need to call the National Guard out or anything!

Strategist says

The best thing criminals can do for society is kill each other. Why stop them?

Hey SBH and Dan, is that human rights abuse? You have no problem watching ISIS rape, torture, enslave and murder innocent Yazidi women and children. So I figure you would enjoy criminals shoot each other.

Strategist, you ignorant slut. Just because I have a problem with America raping, torturing, enslaving, and murdering innocent people does not mean I don't have a problem with ISIS doing the same. In fact, I have the exact same problem with both of them. It is only you who think that these atrocities are acceptable when done by your team, and that makes you every bit as guilty of them as those criminal scumbags committing the acts.

Furthermore, just because I have a problem with criminals who have police badges committing crimes and not being prosecuted for them does not mean I don't have a problem with criminals who lack police badges committing crimes and not being prosecuted. In fact, I have the exact same problem with both of them. It is only you who think that these crimes are acceptable when done by your team, and that makes you every bit as guilty of them as those criminal scumbags committing the acts.

Notice a pattern, dummy?

As to why we should stop criminals from killing criminals, for example, biker gangs shooting up a bar, is that innocent people get killed in the cross-fire. Unfortunately, dumb ass conservatives don't realize this when they get their self-righteous boner. Every bar fight, every drive-by shooting, every gang turf battle, every drug dealer shootout endangers the lives of innocent people. So yes, stopping these things is a good thing even if it saves criminal lives. It might just save the life of your child. Would you prefer that he or she died so that a criminal could shoot another criminal to death?

As to what to do about biker gangs, I don't know. I don't think about biker gangs often, so I haven't brainstorm the problem. What I can say, is that the problem isn't really about biker gangs, but rather about male macho-bullshit attitudes, the same attitude you demonstrate whenever you call for killing criminals, foreigners, etc. Real men do engineering and listen to Taylor Swift.

Why are all bikers old white men who look exactly like this guy?

thunderlips11 says

I have a better explanation. The Manager of the Denny's across the street said a few minutes before the SWAT team showed up, all the bikers cleared out.

I knew it!

Exclusive: Leaked Report Profiles Military, Police Members of Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs

Specific examples from the report include dozens of Defense Department contractors with Secret or Top Secret clearances; multiple FBI contractors; radiological technicians with security clearances; U.S. Department of Homeland Security employees; Army, Navy and Air Force active-duty personnel, including from the special operations force community; and police officers.
...
On Wednesday, law enforcement in Texas confirmed to several media outlets that one of the bikers arrested in the massive post-shootout sweep was a former San Antonio police detective, who joined the Bandidos after retiring from the department after 32 years

sbh says

Strawtegist says

Hey SBH and Dan......You have no problem watching ISIS rape, torture, enslave and murder innocent Yazidi women and children.

That was an incredibly stupid and unfounded piece of straw-shit. Strawtegist, you are on the fast track to becoming the third dumbest dumbfuck on this forum. Link to a scintilla of proof that we have "no problem".

I don't like being number 3. I'm number 1. Who are the other 2?

sbh says

No matter what you do, you can't make a triangle anything other than a three sided polygon. No matter how mad or injured or tortured or stupid you get you can't make an impossible mobius a functioning standard for moral behavior. So you make up stupid shit like this.

I would repeat what I said to you and Dan. You guys complain day and night about drones, innocent people being killed, we are murderers, human rights abusers, torturers and all that BS, while tens of thousands get raped, murdered, slaughtered, and enslaved. You fools are short sighted jerks who can't figure out that killing terrorists saves more lives then it takes from collateral damage. You just can't see that, which is why we have this mess on our hands. I hold you fools 100% responsible for letting ISIS, Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, getting to the point where they can carry out these atrocities. It is YOU FOOLS, who are responsible for the creation of ISIS. You guys even complained about Osama Bin Laden not getting a fair trial. Jesus Christ, who's side are you on?

Strategist says

You fools are short sighted jerks who can't figure out that killing terrorists saves more lives then it takes from collateral damage.

No one has ever proposed letting terrorists go free or not killing them in the heat of battle. What the sane people of the world have said is that you don't get to torture and kill anyone you like just by labeling them a terrorist. The children ages 1 to 7 who were blown to bits by drones in the pictures I posted are hardly terrorists.

As for Osama bin Laden, it would have been in OUR interests to bring his ass back to NYC and hold an honest, open trial with the entire world watching. Upholding our laws is demonstrating that no terrorist can escape the long hand of the law is most certainly in our best security interests and in the interests of saving American lives. If you actually believe that SBH and I are sympathetic to bin Laden, then you are stupid even by conservative standards.

Strategist says

You guys complain day and night about drones, innocent people being killed, we are murderers, human rights abusers, torturers and all that BS, while tens of thousands get raped, murdered, slaughtered, and enslaved.

Great, it's ok because they do it. I haven't heard that since 3rd grade.

Did it ever occur to you that americans are supposed to be better people than ISIS? Looking at our faults and correcting them part of how that happens. The fact that you would even say that
Strategist says

killing terrorists saves more lives then it takes from collateral damage.

means you are truly unworthy of american citizenship. You simply don't understand even the most basic principals that the country was founded on.

" I have a better explanation. The Manager of the Denny's across the street said a few minutes before the SWAT team showed up, all the bikers cleared out."

They weren't afraid, they just knew all the donuts would be bogarted.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

You fools are short sighted jerks who can't figure out that killing terrorists saves more lives then it takes from collateral damage.

No one has ever proposed letting terrorists go free or not killing them in the heat of battle. What the sane people of the world have said is that you don't get to torture and kill anyone you like just by labeling them a terrorist. The children ages 1 to 7 who were blown to bits by drones in the pictures I posted are hardly terrorists.

There you go again. How many women and children have been enslaved because we did not blow up ISIS while they were still an emerging threat?
Going after terrorists, drones, targeted killings, and assassinations could have saved tens of thousands from being slaughtered. Who made the rule you can only kill in the heat of battle?

Dan8267 says

As for Osama bin Laden, it would have been in OUR interests to bring his ass back to NYC and hold an honest, open trial with the entire world watching. Upholding our laws are demonstrating that no terrorist can escape the long hand of the law is most certainly in our best security interests and in the interests of saving American lives. If you actually believe that SBH and I are sympathetic to bin Laden, then you are stupid by even conservative standards.

It's our dumb laws that give these terrorists an opportunity to thrive. It's in our interests to slaughter them before they slaughter others.

bob2356 says

Did it ever occur to you that americans are supposed to be better people than ISIS? Looking at our faults and correcting them part of how that happens.

Not taking terrorists out, and letting them live to slaughter and enslave is our biggest fault. Being nice guys does not work in a bad world.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

killing terrorists saves more lives then it takes from collateral damage.

means you are truly unworthy of american citizenship. You simply don't understand even the most basic principals that the country was founded on.

Actually your statements tell me you can't tell the difference between right and wrong. That you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives to give rights to terrorists. I hold you responsible for the Yazidi massacres along with Dan, SBH and Obama.

Strategist says

Actually your statements tell me you can't tell the difference between right and wrong. That you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives to give rights to terrorists.

So killing innocent bystanders is your idea of telling right from wrong? Perfect. I couldn't ask for better.

I think terrorists should be captured if possible to gain intelligence or killed if not. But no one should have unilateral power to do so. There needs to be a system of checks and balances to avoid the kinds of mistakes that have been made time and again. Killing innocent men, women, and kids generates a lot more terrorists than the number of terrorists (if any) you kill along with innocent bystanders. The collateral damage as you put it might make 3rd page of the news in US for a day, if at all. It plays loud and clear front and center for years in the islamic world. The US government is the best terrorist recruiter on the planet at this point.

Strategist says

I hold you responsible for the Yazidi massacres massacres along with Dan, SBH and Obama.

Now you are sounding nuttier than bgmal4. Are you going into false flags, zionists world order, and first aid case colors next? ISIL wouldn't have existed at all if the US hadn't invaded Iraq. The US never controlled central or western Iraq even at the peak of the Iraq war. Mosul was never under control, atrocities happened there in 2008 with peak US troop numbers. ISIL was operating freely then. Look at the persecution of the assyrian christians in 2008. The much heralded surge only drove ISIL out of the area around baghdad. US troops could have stayed in iraq forever without making any difference. Look up how the british 20 year occupation of iraq went.

All the US managed to do in iraq is kick off a civil war between iran sponsored shia and suadi sponsored sunni that will go on basically for ever at this point no matter how many troops we send/don't send. Plenty of people said that was what would happen in 2003, you know all the people called unpatriotic by people like you. I had a guest column printed in USA today saying not only would invading iraq turn into a vietnam but the country would eventually splinter into sunni, shia, and kurdish regions. With the rise of iraq as a proxy war between iran and suadi arabia that won't even happen. It will just be and endless battleground korea style with boundries shifting back and forth.

If the US really wanted to do something about terrorism we would have invaded saudi arabia not iraq.

Dan8267 says

Why are all bikers old white men who look exactly like this guy?

Not true

Strategist says

There you go again.

Collateral damage, i.e. murdering innocent civilians, is not a moral, ethical, or legal way to tackle terrorism. That alone is reason enough to oppose it.

But for unethical swine like you, know this. It's also not an effective means. Even the Pentagon has published in great detail that collateral damage causes blowback that increases terrorism and makes us less safe. Only conservative are so stupid as to think that blowing up children and pregnant women is not going to cause all their relatives and countrymen to rise up to fight back against their attackers.

Every atrocity committed by our side strengthens ISIS and recruits more terrorists.

Strategist says

It's in our interests to slaughter them before they slaughter others.

This is exactly the kind of thing that ISIS would quote in order to recruit terrorists and persuade suicide bombers to go through with their missions.

Strategist says

I hold you responsible for the Yazidi massacres along with Dan, SBH and Obama.

Which is why you are a moron.

lostand confused says

Dan8267 says

Why are all bikers old white men who look exactly like this guy?

Not true

I stand corrected. I did not know that Call It Crazy and his wife were bikers.

sbh says

You're a perfect victim: terrorized beyond being able to reason.

Precisely, strategist is the kind of coward you'd find in Texas pissing his pants at the mere mention of terrorism. Home of the brave, my ass. The brave don't abandon law and order out of fear of idiot fanatics. Boston and New York City have proven this.

sbh says

The lynchers have your standard. ISIS has your standard.

Nope. I look out for the most human beings at any given time..."7 billion". You and Dan and Bob, look out for the least..."collateral damage"
You won't come close to my standards in a billion years.
By the way, nuking Detroit is a great idea. :)

Dan8267 says

Collateral damage, i.e. murdering innocent civilians, is not a moral, ethical, or legal way to tackle terrorism. That alone is reason enough to oppose it.

Collateral damage is not murder. You save more lives by killing terrorists. Do you know why we give vaccines to our kids even though some end up dying? Because it saves more lives than it takes. It's a concept short sighted people are not capable of understanding.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I hold you responsible for the Yazidi massacres along with Dan, SBH and Obama.

Which is why you are a moron.

Shower me with all the insults you can think of. You will NEVER be able to disprove that "killing terrorists will cause collateral damage, but saves a lot more lives in the long run"
I challenge you and anyone else to prove my statement wrong.

SBH, Why do you keep posting that picture? It's offensive and has nothing to do with going after terrorists. I do not like to see humans like that, nor do I like to see the victims of ISIS get beheaded, Yazidi women and children tortured raped and enslaved.
I LOVE to see terrorists tortured. It's so entertaining when they scream in pain. :)

sbh says

Yep. Your standard is act as they do when doing so feels good.

Who is "they" ??

sbh says

Yep, that's what these primitives enjoyed when they tortured and killed the black people in the picture. You're firmly in third place for stupidity on this forum.

All our ancestors were primitive and barbaric. What has that got to do with you and me TODAY?

Strategist says

I look out for the most human beings at any given time..."7 billion".

The most ridiculous lie ever told by Strategist. Americans make up 5% of the world's population. Strategist would be glad if the other 95% were killed off and their wealth went to America. Then Strategist would want the 37% of Americans who are minorities killed off. Then he would have to find someone new to hate. Oh wait, he's already picked liberals. After all, who better to hate to show your patriotism then the people who believe in the principles upon which this country was founded?

Strategist says

All our ancestors were primitive and barbaric. What has that got to do with you and me TODAY?

Acting like that in the nuclear age causes the extinction of our species. That's what.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

All our ancestors were primitive and barbaric. What has that got to do with you and me TODAY?

Acting like that in the nuclear age causes the extinction of our species. That's what.

Exactly. That is why we have to kill off Islamic terrorists even if there is collateral damage. Do you want the extinction of our species?

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I look out for the most human beings at any given time..."7 billion".

The most ridiculous lie ever told by Strategist. Americans make up 5% of the world's population. Strategist would be glad if the other 95% were killed off and their wealth went to America. Then Strategist would want the 37% of Americans who are minorities killed off. Then he would have to find someone new to hate. Oh wait, he's already picked liberals.

No Dan, no. I have picked liberals like you. Not liberals like me, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and the smart ones.
You Dan, are not a true liberal. You are hereby booted out of the "Smart liberal association"

Strategist says

You are hereby booted out of the "Smart liberal association"

AND STAY OUT!

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Collateral damage, i.e. murdering innocent civilians, is not a moral, ethical, or legal way to tackle terrorism. That alone is reason enough to oppose it.

Collateral damage is not murder. You save more lives by killing terrorists. Do you know why we give vaccines to our kids even though some end up dying? Because it saves more lives than it takes. It's a concept short sighted people are not capable of understanding.

Wow, drone strikes are just like vaccines. Pretty amazing thought even from a neocon cop apologist librul with an electric car. I'm impressed.

sbh says

You're primitive and I am not. Your standard is primitive,as are you. My standard is universally applicable and your is not.

WOW.
The world is flat, was a universal standard too. So was ghosts, goblins, tooth fairies and Santa Claus. Universally accepted standards are for those who can't think for themselves. Thank God i'm not in that category.

bob2356 says

Wow, drone strikes are just like vaccines.

Prove me wrong. :)

bob2356 says

Pretty amazing thought even from a neocon cop apologist librul with an electric car. I'm impressed.

Non polluting cars are the future. Trust me on that. Even Warren Buffet dumped his shares of ExxonMobil. He now invests in batteries.

sbh says

Strategist says

Universally accepted standards are for those who can't think for themselves.

That has to be the dumbest thing you've ever said.

Why?

Strategist says

That is why we have to kill off Islamic terrorists even if there is collateral damage

The terrorists don't have nukes despite Republican efforts to thwart our agents who prevent terrorists from getting nukes.

Strategist says

That is why we have to kill off Islamic terrorists even if there is collateral damage.

Other than the fact that killing innocent people is both repugnant and totally against american principals, you being one of the very small group of neanderthal exceptions, every time there is "collateral damage" you create 100 times more new terrorists than you killed. Don't you think the story and pictures are published repeatedly in great detail everywhere from senegal to east timor every time it happens? Cancel that sentence deep thinking, or even shallow thinking, isn't your strong point.

Drones are a great tool, but there must be some system of accountability other than the president says ok involved in using them. The military at least has a very weak rules of engagement. It was better before it was revised in 2013. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-06/us-military-changes-drone-rules-make-targeting-civilians-easier The cowboy CIA drone jockies, an organization which is supposed to be gathering intelligence not making war, have nothing.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

That is why we have to kill off Islamic terrorists even if there is collateral damage

The terrorists don't have nukes

They did a pretty good job on the Yazidi women and children even without nukes. The Yazidi's are humans too. We can't stand by and allow this to happen to other human beings.

bob2356 says

Strategist says

That is why we have to kill off Islamic terrorists even if there is collateral damage.

Other than the fact that killing innocent people is both repugnant and totally against american principals, you being one of the very small group of neanderthal exceptions, every time there is "collateral damage" you create 100 times more new terrorists than you killed. Don't you think the story and pictures are published repeatedly in great detail everywhere from senegal to east timor every time it happens? Cancel that sentence deep thinking, or even shallow thinking, isn't your strong point.

If that were true I would not support targeted killings of terrorists, but it's a total myth. Saudi, Pakistan, India and Russia, all target and assassinate terrorists. They seem to be very affective. Are you saying only WE create more terrorists, and not the others?

bob2356 says

Drones are a great tool, but there must be some system of accountability other than the president says ok involved in using them. The military at least has a very weak rules of engagement.

It is very naive to think we don't care enough for collateral damage. We go to great lengths to minimize collateral damage. Terrorists know this, which is why they hide behind women and children. By the way, Pakistan now goes after their own terrorists with airstrikes. I don't hear a single word about collateral damage by Pakistan. You guys here don't care about collateral damage, you only care about WHO did it. It's all screwed up politics, isn't it?

Bob, SBH, Dan.....here are examples of what ends up happening when terrorists are freed. The ISIS leader, Baghdadi was a US prisoner who was freed when he should have been executed.

http://www.ellinghuysen.com/news/articles/167035.shtml

Strategist says

If that were true I would not support targeted killings of terrorists, but it's a total myth. Saudi, Pakistan, India and Russia, all target and assassinate terrorists. They seem to be very affective. Are you saying only WE create more terrorists, and not the others?

Strategist? How can you be a strategist when you don't have a clue who the players are? Saudi's kill shia terrorists. Pakistan kills indian based terrorists. India kills the pakistani terrorists. Russia kills cheychian and ukranian terrorists. Do they indiscrimantly kill civilians along with them? I really don't know, you know so much on the subject document it for me. Judging from the escalation of terrorism and expansion in all these groups I would say yes they do create more terrorists. That's just not my concern nor is it relevant to US foreign policy.

Strategist says

It is very naive to think we don't care enough for collateral damage. We go to great lengths to minimize collateral damage. Terrorists know this, which is why they hide behind women and children. By the way, Pakistan now goes after their own terrorists with airstrikes. I don't hear a single word about collateral damage by Pakistan. You guys here don't care about collateral damage, you only care about WHO did it. It's all screwed up politics, isn't it?

If we go to such great lengths then why was the order of battle for drones made more liberal in 2013? Why is there no guidance at all for the CIA? If you didn't hear a single word about pakistan killing women and children then it's because you don't want to hear it. It's certainly been reported. Of course we care who did it, we are Americans who should stand for something better than what is acceptable conduct in third world hellholes like pakistan. We are back to 3rd grade he did so it's ok for me to do it now. What screwed up politics, I objected just as much to sloppy drone strikes when bush did it. It's called principles, look it up since you are totally unfamiliar with the word.