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Illinois Democrats Seek To Tax Their Way Out Of Fiscal Mess


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2015 May 28, 6:55am   28,271 views  73 comments

by zzyzzx   ➕follow (5)   💰tip   ignore  

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/052715-754539-democrats-in-springfield-avoid-cuts-seek-taxes-instead-to-close-budget-gap.htm

States: Illinoisans voted in November to end a generation of cronyism, corruption and financial malfeasance by electing Republican reformer Bruce Rauner as governor. Now, just six months later, the empire is striking back.

In this case, the Death Star is the teacher unions. At their behest, the state House and Senate are preparing to send Rauner a bloated $36 billion budget that they know is $3 billion out of balance.

Our sources in Springfield, however, say that the legislature is using budget gimmicks and the real spending gap is far more. Democrats approved a spending plan that thumbs its nose at the cuts Rauner requested.

It's a brazen power play by House Speaker-for-life Michael Madigan.

He knows that his brinksmanship violates a constitution that makes clear "appropriations for a fiscal year shall not exceed funds estimated by the General Assembly to be available during that year."

In other words, the budget must balance. But the wily speaker is trying to trap the governor into a fiscal corner in which the only way out is a tax increase.

Madigan wants a return to budget business as usual in Illinois, a state with some of the nation's highest property, business and sales taxes, one of the worst credit ratings and a pension mess that rivals that of California for its severe underfunding.

Moody's recently downgraded Chicago bonds to junk status. Does anyone in his right mind think tax increases are the answer to Illinois' financial Hindenburg?

Actually, the Democrats thought they could tax their way out of the disaster back in 2012. So they raised income taxes by one-third and corporate taxes to the fourth-highest in the nation.

It was the biggest tax hike in Illinois history, and guess what? The fiscal crisis got worse, because the solons in Springfield spent all that extra money, too. Tax hikes, as Ronald Reagan used to say, were like giving an alcoholic another bottle of booze.

Rauner has sought common-sense pension reform, workers' compensation repairs (the state has lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the last 15 years) and a property tax freeze. He proposed to negotiate with Democrats, but they rejected all of these changes.

The state Supreme Court has also made budget-balancing much harder by declaring unconstitutional a plan, which the legislature already approved, to trim pension costs. The unfunded pension liability is now estimated at more than $100 billion. More than 5,000 teachers and other education officials get annual pensions that top $100,000, and many retire at age 60.

#politics

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2   Strategist   2015 May 28, 7:36am  

zzyzzx says

More than 5,000 teachers and other education officials get annual pensions that top $100,000, and many retire at age 60.

I wonder what our friend Marcus has to say about that? 70 year old widows working at Burger King paying for these pensions. Of those teachers getting $100K+ pensions, I bet most are useless teachers who cannot get fired, because of union rules.

3   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 7:45am  

Strategist says

I wonder what our friend Marcus has to say about that? 70 year old widows working at Burger King paying for these pensions. Of those teachers getting $100K+ pensions, I bet most are useless teachers who cannot get fired, because of union rules.

Give me a break. 70 year old widows working at Burger King are also paying the salary of the billionaire CEOs. If you want to get mad, focus your anger at the administrators--they are the worst abusers. Or at the voters who elect school boards that give the teachers' union anything it wants.

Calling them useless teachers is just dumb.

4   socal2   2015 May 28, 8:03am  

HEY YOU says

Red States know about operating low/no tax budgets.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/kansass-failed-experiment/389874/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/11/13/kansas_budget_crisis_thanks_to_republican_tax_cuts_the_state_can_t_pay_its.html

It's funny that Libs love to tote out Kansas to deflect criticism from the bankruptcies and bond downgrades in Illinois, New York, Michigan, California.......

Compared to Illinois with their junk bond status, massive crime, union corruption and total dysfunction, Kansas is a pinnacle of good governance.

5   socal2   2015 May 28, 8:08am  

tatupu70 says

Give me a break. 70 year old widows working at Burger King are also paying the salary of the billionaire CEOs. If you want to get mad, focus your anger at the administrators--they are the worst abusers. Or at the voters who elect school boards that give the teachers' union anything it wants.

Which voters gave the teachers' union anything they want?

In Illinois, the Voters just tried to make a difference by electing a Republican to try and enact some common sense pension reform.

But the Democratic machine, unions and judges blocked the reform to ensure fat union fucks like this guy gets to keep his bennies, while the city burns to the ground. This is the type of guys that the Libs and Progs stand up for.

"Lobbyist sues to regain big pension he got from 1 day as substitute teacher"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-pension-lawsuit-lobbyist-met-20150318-story.html#page=1

6   Strategist   2015 May 28, 8:15am  

tatupu70 says

Give me a break. 70 year old widows working at Burger King are also paying the salary of the billionaire CEOs. If you want to get mad, focus your anger at the administrators

The CEO does not get paid by the taxpayer. My point with Marcus was it's not fair for the 70 year old widow working at Burger King to pay outrageous benefits to teachers, when the teachers don't pay anything to her.

7   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 8:23am  

Strategist says

The CEO does not get paid by the taxpayer. My point with Marcus was it's not fair for the 70 year old widow working at Burger King to pay outrageous benefits to teachers, when the teachers don't pay anything to her.

Where do you think company revenue comes from? Fair is a very subjective notion. Is it "fair" that the 70 yr. old widow must work a year to make the same amount of money that it takes the CEO less than a day to "earn"?

You're crying over peanuts. If you want to be outraged--direct it at the folks that deserve it.

8   lostand confused   2015 May 28, 8:28am  

tatupu70 says

Where do you think company revenue comes from?

Interesting-where do you think it comes from??

9   Vicente   2015 May 28, 8:28am  

You guys are just psycho about taxes.

Go to ZERO taxes of any kind, see how that works out.

Suddenly corporations will be crying there's nobody to give them subsidies and breaks.
Military will turn into Blackwater mercenaries.

10   Strategist   2015 May 28, 8:28am  

tatupu70 says

Where do you think company revenue comes from? Fair is a very subjective notion. Is it "fair" that the 70 yr. old widow must work a year to make the same amount of money that it takes the CEO less than a day to "earn"?

Yes it is "fair"

tatupu70 says

You're crying over peanuts. If you want to be outraged--direct it at the folks that deserve it.

That's what I am doing. The unions deserve all the outrage.

11   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 8:35am  

lostand confused says

Interesting-where do you think it comes from??

Consumers--which includes 70 year old widows.

12   socal2   2015 May 28, 8:38am  

Vicente says

You guys are just psycho about taxes.

Go to ZERO taxes of any kind, see how that works out.

Right - because some of us want our bloated union government bureaucracy to be more efficient and productive with the massive taxes we already send them, we must want ZERO taxes. We want anarchy and Thunderdome!

Just amazes me how the national narrative is always about tax levels and never about the QUALITY and EFFICIENCY of the services we get with our tax dollars.

I forgot, our government employees are all unionized and they are the Democrat's biggest special interest group.

13   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 8:40am  

Strategist says

That's what I am doing. The unions deserve all the outrage.

Of course. Let's get pissed at someone making $100K/year, while ignoring the folks making 50 - 200 times that.

Hell--we should all be making $100K/year. If the productivity gains over the last 30 years were simply returned to the workers instead of stolen by the owners, the average salary would probably be $100K.

14   socal2   2015 May 28, 8:40am  

tatupu70 says

Consumers--which includes 70 year old widows.

Consumers who VOLUNTARILY give corporations their money to buy products and services.

Whereas, the tax payers are FORCED to pay into a corruption feedback loop between Democrat politicians and Unions to get shitty services.

15   Vicente   2015 May 28, 8:41am  

socal2 says

we must want ZERO taxes. We want anarchy and Thunderdome!

That is the narrative, driven from the GOP core.

"I want a government so small, I can strangle it in the bathtub." - Grover Norquist

Nothing about EFFICIENCY in there, goal is DOWNSIZING to make it small enough to murder. No respect, just regarding it as a demonic child they ache to watch the life ebb from it's eyes. What with all the pedophilia, rape, and incest in the GOP y'all still find plenty of time to hate your own government.

If the goal were always EFFICIENCY, well then the same ideas would be applied to say the military. How about we cut 10% off their budget to make them more EFFICIENT. Strangely that never seems to be proposed.

16   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 8:42am  

socal2 says

Consumers who VOLUNTARILY give corporations their money to buy products and services.

Whereas, the tax payers are FORCED to pay into a corruption feedback loop between Democrat politicians and Unions to get shitty services.

Not really. Nobody is forced to live in Cook County, or Illinois for that matter. When they choose to live there, they are buying the services that the county and state provide.

17   lostand confused   2015 May 28, 8:46am  

tatupu70 says

Interesting-where do you think it comes from??

Consumers--which includes 70 year old widows

A consumer can choose to buy. Once someone stays in a place and the gubmnt decides to double their tax next year-well can't even believe you are comparing the same and think they are the same.

18   socal2   2015 May 28, 8:53am  

Vicente says

If the goal were always EFFICIENCY, well then the same ideas would be applied to say the military. How about we cut 10% off their budget to make them more EFFICIENT. Strangely that never seems to be proposed.

Uh dude - what do you think the sequester was all about?

The Military took the biggest hit and it was passed by Republicans while the Media and Democrats squealed.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/02/20/the-sequester-absolutely-everything-you-could-possibly-need-to-know-in-one-faq/

19   Shaman   2015 May 28, 8:59am  

State governments sometimes forget that their borders are porous, and tax payers are free to leave at any time.
Illinois is especially bad about this, since outside of Chicago and farmland, there's not a lot to recommend the state.
Two of my taxpayer friends from college have moved their families away from Illinois to escape the crippling tax burdens.
Sometimes people vote with their feet.

20   lostand confused   2015 May 28, 9:00am  

Vicente says

If the goal were always EFFICIENCY, well then the same ideas would be applied to say the military. How about we cut 10% off their budget to make them more EFFICIENT. Strangely that never seems to be proposed

Lop it off by 20%-we would still be the biggest military and then take a hatchet and cut 100% of the DEA and that would take down the prison industrial complex with it.

21   socal2   2015 May 28, 9:01am  

Vicente says

Nothing about EFFICIENCY in there, goal is DOWNSIZING to make it small enough to murder. No respect, just regarding it as a demonic child they ache to watch the life ebb from it's eyes. What with all the pedophilia, rape, and incest in the GOP y'all still find plenty of time to hate your own government.

Nice screechy straw man.

I want my tax dollars used to build new schools, promote good teachers, repair roads, bridges and water systems and provide for a national defense.

I don't want my tax dollars wasted on the fat fuck Lobbyist in Chicago who is suing for his pension after working one day as a substitute teacher.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-pension-lawsuit-lobbyist-met-20150318-story.html#page=1

Again, you believe in the dopey narrative that if Republicans complain about NUMEROUS abuses like the one listed above, we want NO GOVERNMENT. We want THUNDERDOME!

22   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 9:01am  

lostand confused says

Once someone stays in a place and the gubmnt decides to double their tax next year-well can't even believe you are comparing the same and think they are the same.

It's not the same thing-I agree. But don't be mad at the teachers. That's just idiotic. Everyone's goal is to maximize income--why demonize someone doing exactly what you'd do.

23   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 9:05am  

socal2 says

The Military took the biggest hit and it was passed by Republicans while the Media and Democrats squealed.

You're kidding, right? Read up on the sequester. The Dems included the military cuts to try to get the Reps to agree to not cut social services. But since no deal was made, both got cut and the Reps were furious that the military budget was cut. Make no mistake--the Reps did NOT want to cut military spending.

24   MisdemeanorRebel   2015 May 28, 9:07am  

tatupu70 says

You're kidding, right? Read up on the sequester. The Dems included the military cuts to try to get the Reps to agree to not cut social services. But since no deal was made, both got cut and the Reps were furious that the military budget was cut. Make no mistake--the Reps did NOT want to cut military spending.

Yep, Congress wanted to bypass the sequester for ONLY for the military, while keeping all other spending locked up.

25   socal2   2015 May 28, 9:12am  

tatupu70 says

You're kidding, right? Read up on the sequester. The Dems included the military cuts to try to get the Reps to agree to not cut social services. But since no deal was made, both got cut and the Reps were furious that the military budget was cut. Make no mistake--the Reps did NOT want to cut military spending.

Of course.

But at the end of the day, the Republicans still went along and cut spending to their top priority to compromise and get spending under control.

In this case, they finally walked the walk.

Now it is time for Democrats to do the same and show they can cut spending on entitlements, which dwarfs military spending by far.

26   Vicente   2015 May 28, 9:16am  

socal2 says

Again, you believe in the dopey narrative that if Republicans complain about NUMEROUS abuses like the one listed above, we want NO GOVERNMENT. We want THUNDERDOME!

It's not a dopey narrative, it's the truth. As a former Republican I see that excruciatingly clearly now. The hatred of government is deep-seated. Unless it's the authoritarian arms like courts, military, or police. The Republicans squealed like stuck pigs when the sequester cut their beloved military, and took every shot they could afterwards to restore funding. A $3,000 coffee maker or a $600 toilet seat NEVER seems to be a reason to cut the military budget, NOOOOO! They chuckle about it, and wait for the checks to roll in from defense contractors while the story cools off.

27   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 9:20am  

socal2 says

Of course.

But at the end of the day, the Republicans still went along and cut spending to their top priority to compromise and get spending under control.

In this case, they finally walked the walk.

Now it is time for Democrats to do the same and show they can cut spending on entitlements, which dwarfs military spending by far.

Wow-that's some good spin there.

Couldn't you just as easily say that Democrats cut spending to compromise and get spending under control? And they walked the walk?

And it's time for Republicans to do the same and show they can cut spending on military, which dwarfs entitlement spending by far. Look at the discretionary budget. Military spending is 50%+. It's hard to know exactly because military spending is purposely hidden throughout many departments so the average Joe doesn't realize how huge it is.

28   Vicente   2015 May 28, 9:24am  

tatupu70 says

Reps were furious that the military budget was cut.

They found a new accounting trick to bypass sequester limits. House Republican budget will boost the "overseas contingency operations" account which isn't subject to sequester limits. Real "out of the box" thinking of true fiscal conservatives!

29   socal2   2015 May 28, 9:29am  

tatupu70 says

Couldn't you just as easily say that Democrats cut spending to compromise and get spending under control? And they walked the walk?

And it's time for Republicans to do the same and show they can cut spending on military, which dwarfs entitlement spending by far. Look at the discretionary budget. Military spending is 50%+. It's hard to know exactly because military spending is purposely hidden throughout many departments so the average Joe doesn't realize how huge it is.

You are terribly misinformed. Entitlement spending is way higher than military spending.

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

30   socal2   2015 May 28, 9:32am  

Vicente says

It's not a dopey narrative, it's the truth. As a former Republican I see that excruciatingly clearly now. The hatred of government is deep-seated.

You can keep saying that if it makes you sleep better and justify pulling the lever for Democrat morons.

But most Conservatives want BETTER government. We think public sector unions are a massive impediment to improving the quality and cost of our bureaucracy. Everything from teachers unions, prison guard unions, police unions.........resist reforms tooth and nail like we just saw in Illinois.

31   Vicente   2015 May 28, 9:40am  

socal2 says

We think public sector unions are a massive impediment

Yes god forbid, that a UNION no matter how toothless and small, be allowed to remain alive anywhere in the USA. There is no threat to mankind greater, quick let's all grab clubs and smash the brains out of the last surviving sabertooth kitten.

GOP are not "conservatives" except as it boils down to "I got mine, fuck you!"

32   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 9:44am  

socal2 says

You are terribly misinformed. Entitlement spending is way higher than military spending.

Your own link tells the story:

And I suspect that the military spending portion of the pie is significantly understated. Why is veteran's benefits not included under military?? How much of energy's budget is really military? How much military spending is not even in the budget?

33   zzyzzx   2015 May 28, 9:45am  

Vicente says

If the goal were always EFFICIENCY, well then the same ideas would be applied to say the military. How about we cut 10% off their budget to make them more EFFICIENT. Strangely that never seems to be proposed.

Other branches of the government are just as inefficient, of not more inefficient than the department of Defense.

34   tatupu70   2015 May 28, 9:46am  

socal2 says

But most Conservatives want BETTER government. We think public sector unions are a massive impediment to improving the quality and cost of our bureaucracy. Everything from teachers unions, prison guard unions, police unions.........resist reforms tooth and nail like we just saw in Illinois.

Because "reform" = cut in pay.

What other reforms were proposed and fought?

35   zzyzzx   2015 May 28, 9:47am  

tatupu70 says

socal2 says

You are terribly misinformed. Entitlement spending is way higher than military spending.

Your own link tells the story:

http://www.cheatsheet.com/business/why-is-american-social-welfare-so-incredibly-expensive.html
How Much Do Welfare Programs Cost the U.S.? More Than You Ever Thought

There’s a lot of push and pull between legislators and government officials as to just how much the government should get involved in public assistance. There are numerous welfare and social safety net programs, helping millions of families with housing and food assistance, child care, and education. But one of the biggest knocks against these programs is that they are costly, and at a time when government spending is under the microscope, these programs are in the cross hairs of deficit hawks everywhere.

Thanks to the results of a study from the University of California at Berkeley, we now have a more accurate idea of exactly how much funding these programs require. Many have hostile attitudes toward SNAP, unemployment insurance, and other programs, and if you’re going strictly off the price tag, it does look like there’s room to be concerned.

The total? $152.8 billion annually.

36   socal2   2015 May 28, 9:48am  

Vicente says

Yes god forbid, that a UNION no matter how toothless and small, be allowed to remain alive anywhere in the USA. There is no threat to mankind greater, quick let's all grab clubs and smash the brains out of the last surviving sabertooth kitten.

My gripe is specifically about PUBLIC SECTOR unions. Even FDR knew about the corruption we would see if we let unions into government. And it is playing out before our very eyes in State after State.

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," he wrote. "It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management."

"The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations," he wrote.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/aug/13/scott-walker/Did-FDR-oppose-collective-bargaining-for-governmen/

37   Strategist   2015 May 28, 9:51am  

tatupu70 says

Of course. Let's get pissed at someone making $100K/year, while ignoring the folks making 50 - 200 times that.

I'm pissed at the average struggling person having to to pay extortion money to an undeserving pension plan. As for anyone else making even a thousand times as much, I don't care because it's not my money. Who are we to tell someone what they should pay, and someone else what they should receive? If a private school pays a million dollars to a teacher I would not care. But as a taxpayer, I deserve a say.

38   socal2   2015 May 28, 9:52am  

tatupu70 says

Your own link tells the story:

You are only showing Discretionary Spending which is only 29% of the total government expenditures.

Why don't you post the pie chart of Mandatory Spending which is 65% of total government spending which includes Medicare and Social Security?

So again, entitlement spending dwarfs military spending and is getting bigger by the year.

39   MisdemeanorRebel   2015 May 28, 10:09am  

Discretionary spending is the Entertainment Budget of a Household. When faced with a budget crisis, households cut the trips across the state to play paintball first, not taking Johnny out of college or stopping contributions to their IRA.

Pre-paid benefit spending is funded by extra, regressive taxes - look at your paycheck. Military spending comes out of general revenue.

It's not an entitlement to expect to get the dinner you paid for. It is an entitlement to insist on spending money extra SocSec/MC money on the Paintball Adventures while cutting those programs.

40   Vicente   2015 May 28, 10:10am  

socal2 says

You can keep saying that if it makes you sleep better and justify pulling the lever for Democrat morons.

I sleep better not voting for SELFISH ASSHOLES any more, who put political score-settling above humanity.

Like the many jerks who voted AGAINST funding for disaster relief in New Jersey.

You think those same folks will be turning away Federal assistance in Texas flooding? Right!

Case closed. Efficiency only matters if it's SOMEONE ELSE getting the undeserved handout.

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