patrick.net

Is it just me or economists blindspots and biases seem conveniently chosen to benefit the usual suspects.

"housing prices never go down in the US"?

Heraclitusstudent says

Is it just me or economists blindspots and biases seem conveniently chosen to benefit the usual suspects.

Scholars for Dollars, Court Historians/Stenographers, 2nd Oldest Profession - very much like the 1st.

Should Econ Professors that make more money consulting and writing reports for think tanks be forced to disclose their financial benefit to the students they educate, or to the public when they write articles?

I sure think so.

If China was not allowed to practice mercantilism it would have helped a bunch and Japan for that matter.

For sure jobs were exported which would have had a different outcome if not for the intervention of Greenspan and his fellow mutts, and if we were not taken off of Bretton Woods thanks to LBJ and Nixon.

indigenous says

If China was not allowed to practice mercantilism it would have helped a bunch and Japan for that matter.

You can't choose the actions of others, but you can choose your own.

Heraclitusstudent says

You can't choose the actions of others, but you can choose your own.

Yes you can, the US has a floating exchange rate that automatically targets 2% inflation per year with out any intervention by the Fed. The only reason they can get away with it is because the Dollar is the reserve currency. China and Japan devalued their currency without any intervention by the US.

Heraclitusstudent says

Economists Find China Killing U.S. Factory Jobs

anonymous says

"A recent study by economists at UCLA and Columbia University concluded that trade increases the real incomes of those in the middle of the economic spectrum by 29 percent while raising it for poor households by 62 percent." from the end of the article.

Sure trade kills some jobs, but trade also creates jobs. Overall, there is a net benefit to both countries that trade. Bay Area correctly points this out. It's not just one study that shows this, but study after study. If trade did not benefit us, Obama would not be promoting it.

Strategist says

Bay Area correctly points this out. It

It create a few high skills / high wages jobs at the top. Apple US jobs = 10% of jobs it creates in China.
But 90% are losers in the US, competing with slave labor, while 10% profits.
It creates poverty, destroys middle class, increases the need for loose lending standard - which you clamor for so much.

Heraclitusstudent says

If trade did not benefit us, Obama would not be promoting it.

Lol!

The idea is that comparative advantage creates a win win, but this is not free trade this is cronyism.

China's stock market may be a bubble but not it's real estate which has come down in price every year this is not a bubble. They also require a 50% down payment so there is little leverage.

indigenous says

The idea is that comparative advantage creates a win win,

Comparative advantage is a basically BS. Other than for agriculture, comparative advantage doesn't exist.

Another thing is that China's devaluation of the currency automatically keeps their wages low. It is about their current account which makes the government a net saver. So as the RMB gets revalued the purchasing power of the worker goes up. So the slave wage thing may have been true at one point but it is no longer the case.

Strategist says

Sure trade kills some jobs, but trade also creates jobs. Overall, there is a net benefit to both countries that trade. Bay Area correctly points this out. It's not just one study that shows this, but study after study. If trade did not benefit us, Obama would not be promoting it.

That is also BS. Free trade has been a horrible disaster for the US. As a country, we have lost an immense amount of wealth. It boggles my mind that smart people still claim free trade is a win-win. It's most definitely a win-lose and the US has been losing for a LONG time.

tatupu70 says

Comparative advantage is a basically BS. Other than for agriculture, comparative advantage doesn't exist.

That is akin to saying there is no gravity

indigenous says

That is akin to saying there is no gravity

OK, how about you give me some examples of comparative advantage that don't involve the weather.

The US is the largest manufacturer in the world. If there is no such thing as comparative advantage why wouldn't China make there own airplanes, cars, tractors?

indigenous says

The US is the largest manufacturer in the world. If there is no such thing as comparative advantage why wouldn't China make there own airplanes, cars, tractors?

Care to try again?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobile_manufacturers_of_China

http://www.made-in-china.com/catalog/item999i132/Tractor-2.html

http://english.comac.cc/

Where are they? Why isn't woggy bragging about their airplanes?

indigenous says

No dumb ass they do not. Because they are not as good Boeing

Well, if they had a comparative advantage, it appears to have disappeared.

http://english.comac.cc/news/mc/201506/17/t20150617_2579325.shtml

500 C919s and 300 of the ARJ21s on order. I think you'll be seeing them flying throughout Asia pretty soon.

Heraclitusstudent says

Heraclitusstudent says

If trade did not benefit us, Obama would not be promoting it.

Lol!

There is nothing funny about simple facts. Why do you think Obama, and every previous President in recent times has been promoting free trade?

tatupu70 says

OK, how about you give me some examples of comparative advantage that don't involve the weather.

Life saving drugs. Oil, which is our lifeline. Lithium, needed for new generation batteries.
Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.
You guys are so damn short sighted.

Strategist says

Life saving drugs. Oil, which is our lifeline. Lithium, needed for new generation batteries.

Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.

You guys are so damn short sighted.

OK, weather and what's buried beneath the earth.

How are life saving drugs a comparative advantage?

Strategist says

Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.

That's the line that folks use when they try to convince you that free trade is good. But, as a country we are trading wealth for cheaper products. That is NEVER a good trade.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Life saving drugs. Oil, which is our lifeline. Lithium, needed for new generation batteries.


Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.


You guys are so damn short sighted.

OK, weather and what's buried beneath the earth.

How are life saving drugs a comparative advantage?

The life saving drugs we create saves human lives in other parts of the world. Similarly, life saving drugs created or even partially created in Europe is an obvious benefit to us.
Without free trade we would not have those benefits, and neither would the rest of the world.
In the 1970's, Japanese cars with their better quality started displacing unreliable American cars. We were forced to make better cars, much to our benefit. Thanks to free trade.
The list goes on and on and on for ever.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Virtually every single product we can get cheaper through trade benefits us.

That's the line that folks use when they try to convince you that free trade is good. But, as a country we are trading wealth for cheaper products. That is NEVER a good trade.

We are trading pieces of paper with pictures of Ben Franklin for cheaper goods. Getting goods and services at half price doubles our standard of living.

Strategist says

The life saving drugs we create saves human lives in other parts of the world. Similarly, life saving drugs created or even partially created in Europe is an obvious benefit to us.

No kidding. But it's not comparative advantage. Which was the subject of the discussion.

Strategist says

Without free trade we would not have those benefits, and neither would the rest of the world.

That's debatable. It's not an all or nothing thing. And foreign companies can set up subsidiaries in the US. We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

Strategist says

In the 1970's, Japanese cars with their better quality started displacing unreliable American cars. We were forced to make better cars, much to our benefit. Thanks to free trade.

The list goes on and on and on for ever.

And all of those things would continue to happen with tariffs.

Strategist says

We are trading pieces of paper with pictures of Ben Franklin for cheaper goods. Getting goods and services at half price doubles our standard of living.

Nope--we are trading our wealth for cheaper goods. Getting goods and services at half price only doubles our standard of living IF we keep the same wages and employment levels. Which is clearly NOT the case.

The goal should be increasing real wages, not reducing price of goods.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

The life saving drugs we create saves human lives in other parts of the world. Similarly, life saving drugs created or even partially created in Europe is an obvious benefit to us.

No kidding. But it's not comparative advantage. Which was the subject of the discussion.

It most definitely is comparative advantage. Technology and patents are all part of trade.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

Without free trade we would not have those benefits, and neither would the rest of the world.

That's debatable. It's not an all or nothing thing. And foreign companies can set up subsidiaries in the US. We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

Setting up foreign subsidiaries is part of trade.

tatupu70 says

Strategist says

In the 1970's, Japanese cars with their better quality started displacing unreliable American cars. We were forced to make better cars, much to our benefit. Thanks to free trade.


The list goes on and on and on for ever.

And all of those things would continue to happen with tariffs.

Trading with tariffs is still trade.
You have not made even ONE valid point.

Do you think I'm against trade?? wtf?

Of course we need some trade. What we don't need is lopsided trade agreements that kill US jobs. That's what I've been arguing-not some strawman anti-trade stance that you've imagined for me.

There's one reason: the Chinese would steal the technology, open chinese airplane factories with an eerily similar build to Boeing planes, and crank out airplanes they won't have to pay royalties to a US company for.
Oh wait, that already happened.
The stupid execs at Boeing gave away the farm when they outsourced production to China. The idea was to bypass union labor and make more money for the company. Now, instead of having a lock on the world's most reliable and efficient planes they have cheap foreign competition that didn't have to pay anything for R&D.

Quigley says

There's one reason: the Chinese would steal the technology, open chinese airplane factories with an eerily similar build to Boeing planes, and crank out airplanes they won't have to pay royalties to a US company for.

Oh wait, that already happened.

That is just one reason to have free trade agreements, which would protect our intellectual property. The Russians used to steal our patents all the time, which is how they built eerily similar passenger jets.

Strategist says

That is just one reason to have free trade agreements, which would protect our intellectual property. The Russians used to steal our patents all the time, which is how they built eerily similar passenger jets.

lol--you're kidding, right? How does a free trade agreement keep a country from stealing our technology??

Strategist says

Comparative is not determined by the ease of moving something around, it's determined by what a country can produce better than other countries. Technology, patents, copyrights, software, and movies are all included.

You're kidding, right?
Any company having patents, copyrights, software blah blah, can send its production to China and do it cheaper.
Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills: none of this represents a competitive advantage of a country.
At least not workers in this country.

No Rep/Con/Teas have ever bought any COMMUNIST CHINA product, not even one,because America.
Dumb fucks losing jobs because of outsourcing. No problem,how many are sucking the govt. teat?

Heraclitusstudent says

Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills: none of this represents a competitive advantage of a country.

At least not workers in this country.

Sure it does, you're kidding right?

indigenous says

Heraclitusstudent says

Technology, patents, copyrights, capital, human skills: none of this represents a competitive advantage of a country.


At least not workers in this country.

Sure it does, you're kidding right?

Did you care to elaborate and explain why you think Herc is wrong? Or do you think just stating it is persuasive?

indigenous says

Sure it does

No it doesn't.
If you want to argue this way, have at it.

tatupu70 says

We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

YUP.

And a most of the top ten RX Companies are in SOCIALIST!!! Europe.
http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-reports/top-15-pharma-companies-2014-revenue

#2 Novartis - Switzerland
#3 Roche - Switzerland
#5 Sanofi - Horrible Socialist Basketcase France
#7 GlaxosmithKline - UK
#8 AstraZeneca - UK
#9 Bayer - Socialist Early Retirement, 2nd lowest Work Hours among the OECD, Lazy Germany

thunderlips11 says

tatupu70 says

We would have life saving drugs no matter where they were invented.

YUP.

Without trade we wouldn't.

thunderlips11 says

YUP.

And a most of the top ten RX Companies are in SOCIALIST!!! Europe.

http://www.fiercepharma.com/special-reports/top-15-pharma-companies-2014-revenue

#2 Novartis - Switzerland

#3 Roche - Switzerland

#5 Sanofi - Horrible Socialist Basketcase France

#7 GlaxosmithKline - UK

#8 AstraZeneca - UK

#9 Bayer - Socialist Early Retirement, 2nd lowest Work Hours among the OECD, Lazy Germany

n. Korea,
All those countries practice capitalism. Countries that practiced communism - Russia, China, N Korea, Cuba invented next to nothing.

Dear skeptical friends. Check this out.
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/law-comparative-advantage.asp

Do you know what the greatest comparative advantage of the USA is?
It's capitalism. Capitalism created Silicon Valley and the thousands of companies that 24/7 turn out futuristic products. Apple, Tesla, Google. The list never ends. Ever wonder why Russia, N Korea and the Cubans have no silicon valley that produces spectacular products? No one is stopping them from making the next Apple, right? It's Capitalism, Capitalism and Capitalism.
We are the center of the universe and the world revolves around us.

Strategist says

Dear skeptical friends. Check this out.

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/law-comparative-advantage.asp

Thanks, but we're all aware of the definition and concept of comparative advantage. I just maintain that it's BS. Nothing in that nice webpage convinces me otherwise.