patrick.net

Lincoln was one of if not the worst president the US had, a complete asshole. Yet the mutts salute him...

Lincoln was always more concerned with the nation as a whole. He did not let petty local politics sway his positions.
One could say Lincoln was a continental president.

indigenous says

Lincoln was one of if not the worst president the US had,

He did get 1 million people killed, unnecessarily. It had NOTHING to do with abolition.

who has the best animated avatar?

you got more limbs moving...i gotta work on that..

indigenous says

who has the best animated avatar?

indigenous says

He did get 1 million people killed, unnecessarily. It had NOTHING to do with abolition

I know you're simply trolling again looking for a fight, but I can't resist because unfortunately, there are others that share your ridiculous opinion.

Lincoln didn't make the South secede. Even if you think it wasn't slavery (which it 100% was) that caused the secession, would you have preferred Lincoln simply allow the country to split in two? You think that's a better solution?

From the beginning the republicans hated the Democrats.
Lincoln once said if he could beat the South without abolishing slavery he would.

CaptainShuddup says

Lincoln once said if he could beat the South without abolishing slavery he would.

His overriding concern was keeping the union together. That is well established. He preferred not to go to war, but the South forced his hand by seceding. Once that happened, and there was no longer any chance of keeping the country whole without war, he very much wanted to abolish slavery.

Call it Crazy says

Unlike the guy YOU currently voted for, who wants to divide the country again by black and white...

That's kind of funny coming from you. Do you still think that someone born into the inner city has the same opportunities as someone born into an upper middle class suburb?

tatupu70 says

Once that happened, and there was no longer any chance of keeping the country whole without war, he very much wanted to abolish slavery.

No he just hated the Democrats enough to abolish slavery. He had to abolish slavery because the South depended on it. He abolished slavery not racism. The Buffalo soldiers were physiological warfare, nobody was trying to make History.

CaptainShuddup says

No he just hated the Democrats enough to abolish slavery. He had to abolish slavery because the South depended on it. He abolished slavery not racism. The Buffalo soldiers were physiological warfare, nobody was trying to make History.

All these quotes are just made up then?

"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VIII, "Speech to One Hundred Fortieth Indiana Regiment" (March 17, 1865), p. 361.

"What I do say is, that no man is good enough to govern another man, without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle - the sheet anchor of American republicanism." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Speech at Peoria, Illinois" (October 16, 1854), p. 266.

"We think slavery a great moral wrong, and while we do not claim the right to touch it where it exists, we wish to treat it as a wrong in the territories, where our votes will reach it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume IV, "Speech at New Haven, Connecticut" (March 6, 1860), p. 16.

"In 1841 you and I had together a tedious low-water trip, on a Steam Boat from Louisville to St. Louis. You may remember, as I well do, that from Louisville to the mouth of the Ohio there were, on board, ten or a dozen slaves, shackled together with irons. That sight was a continual torment to me; and I see something like it every time I touch the Ohio, or any other slave-border." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume II, "Letter to Joshua F. Speed" (August 24, 1855), p. 320.

"I am naturally anti-slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong. I can not remember when I did not so think, and feel." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Letter to Albert G. Hodges" (April 4, 1864), p. 281.

"I think slavery is wrong, morally, and politically. I desire that it should be no further spread in these United States, and I should not object if it should gradually terminate in the whole Union." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio" (September 17, 1859), p. 440.

There are many, many more.

http://rogerjnorton.com/Lincoln95.html

tatupu70 says

All these quotes are just made up then?

Um as far as the pure definition of "Made up" goes. I would say so. You do realize that Presidents have speech writers don't you?

CaptainShuddup says

Um as far as the pure definition of "Made up" goes. I would say so. You do realize that Presidents have speech writers don't you?

You are hilarious. Things were a bit different back then Cap. Lincoln wrote his own speeches and, even if he didn't, are you saying that he had the speechwriters misportray his true feelings?

Further--two of those quotes are from letters he wrote to friends. Did his speechwriters do his personal correspondence as well?

Every time I hear someone from the South talk about sore losers, I roll my eyes.

Call it Crazy says

Are you going to start trolling again? I already answered that question, they can become a star in the NBA!!

That's why I used the word "still". I know the English language is difficult for you...

Bring back General Sherman!

Way down South in the land of traitors,
Rattlesnakes and Alligators

In the land where cotton's King and men are chattle
Union Boys will win the Battle
Burn it down, burn it down, burn it down, Dixieland.

I wish I was in Arkansas,
I'd make secession traitors roar
Burn it down, burn it down, burn it down, Dixieland.

The animated icons are giving me epilepsy. I am going to sue.

HEY YOU says

Lincoln,a Republican,

Pre-Southern-Strategy Republicans are today's Democrats and Pre-SS Dixicrats are today's Republicans. The Democratic Party of today is the party of Lincoln. Lincoln would be assassinated by today's Republicans.

Where da von Mises Confederate Symps at?

Dan8267 says

Pre-Southern-Strategy Republicans are today's Democrats and Pre-SS Dixicrats are today's Republicans. The Democratic Party of today is the party of Lincoln. Lincoln would be assassinated by today's Republicans.

Not if Superman got their first and Kicked Batman's ass, distracting everyone long enough for Doc Watson to show up in his Time machine and whisk him away to this fantasy Lincoln world you live in.

Let's read some actual Lincoln quotes and determine if he's a liberal or a conservative.

1. On liberty and defense

What constitutes the bulwark of our own liberty and independence? It is not our frowning battlements, our bristling sea coasts, the guns of our war steamers, or the strength of our gallant and disciplined army. These are not our reliance against a resumption of tyranny in our fair land. All of them may be turned against our liberties, without making us stronger or weaker for the struggle. Our reliance is in the love of liberty which God has planted in our bosoms. Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, every where. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors.
--September 11, 1858 Speech at Edwardsville

Modern Translation
It's not a strong military that makes us free and independent. It is our value of liberty and our unwillingness to sacrifice liberty for security. If ever, we give up liberty for the promise of security, then our nation will deteriorate into despotism.

2. On the denial of freedom

Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.
--April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce et al

Modern Application
Those who deny someone the right to a fair and open trial or the right of Habeas corpus, say by calling that person a terrorist, does not deserve those rights himself.

3. On reform

...I do not mean to say that this general government is charged with the duty of redressing or preventing all the wrongs in the world; but I do think that it is charged with the duty of preventing and redressing all wrongs which are wrongs to itself.
--September 17, 1859 Speech at Cincinnati

Modern Translation
Reform in government is a necessary and ever-on-going effort.

4. On education

Thoughtful men must feel that the fate of civilization upon this continent is involved in the issue of our contest. Among the most satisfying proofs of this conviction is the hearty devotion everywhere exhibited by our schools and colleges to the national cause.
--December 27, 1864 Letter to John Maclean

Modern Translation
The public school system is essential for the survival of our civilization.

5. On law and order

There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Modern Translation
Mob justice is no justice. Law and order should prevail over bloodlust.

6. On secession

Plainly, the central idea of secession, is the essence of anarchy.
--March 4, 1861 Inaugural Address

Personally, as a liberal, I have no problem with the idea of a legal path to succession as I believe people should be able to break off from their parent nation and self-govern if they so choose. So this quote does go against the philosophy of liberalism. However, it's only the red states that talk about seceding from the union, and that too, is significant because this quote does show that Lincoln would hate the Tea Party and the base of the Republican Party today.

Also, I disagree strongly with Lincoln that succession is even remotely like anarchy. After all, America seceded from the British Empire.

7. On Constitutional rights

Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties. And not to Democrats alone do I make this appeal, but to all who love these great and true principles.
--August 27, 1856 Speech at Kalamazoo, Michigan

Modern Translation
Do not erode any of the rights granted in the Constitution for any reason.

8. On the will of the people

The people -- the people -- are the rightful masters of both congresses, and courts -- not to overthrow the constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.
--September 16 and 17, 1959 Notes for Speeches at Columbus and Cincinnati

Modern Application
The Supreme Court case of Citizens United is a perversion of the rights of the people. Corporations are not people. People are people.

9. On human dignity

Understanding the spirit of our institutions to aim at the elevation of men, I am opposed to whatever tends to degrade them.
--May 17, 1859 Letter to Theodore Canisius

Modern Application
The use of strip searches in prisons and sexual humiliation of terror suspects is unacceptable.

10. On law

Let every American, every lover of liberty, every well wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution, never to violate in the least particular, the laws of the country; and never to tolerate their violation by others.
--January 27, 1838 Lyceum Address

Modern Application
Violations of the law by the police should never be tolerated, not even the violations of the most minor laws.

11. On personal wealth

I don't believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. So while we do not propose any war upon capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else.
--March 6, 1860 Speech at New Haven, Connecticut

Modern Translation
The playing field must be equal to all, rich and poor alike.

12. On change

The dogmas of the quiet past, are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise -- with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.
-- December 1, 1862 Annual Message to Congress -- Concluding Remarks

Modern Translation
Change is good. We can't based our thinking on old ideas, whether they be social, economic, political, or scientific.

Modern Applications
Same-sex marriage, climate change policy, Internet neutrality

Overall, Lincoln sounds pretty damn liberal. He's certainly not a conservative, and conservatives would turn on him like they have turned on the pope, and for largely the same reasons.