patrick.net

HEY YOU says

Americans have freedom! Can you name one?

The freedom to live in safety.
Absolute freedom is nonexistent.

We're free to talk on Verizon networks.

Strategist says

The freedom to live in safety.

The existence of militarize police forces disproves your assertion.

HEY YOU says

Americans have freedom! Can you name one?

The freedom to unlimittedly and anonymously bribe politicians as long as you call it a campaign contribution.

Freedom cost $500 an hour and a $5,000 retainer fee.
Plus incidentals and Per Diem, somebody has to pay for those Lattes and organic produce by the ounce.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/OTHRg_iSWzM

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The freedom to live in safety.

The existence of militarize police forces disproves your assertion.

The existence of militarize police forces PROVES my assertion.

Call it KKKrazy says

Hey Call Crazy.....Your online stalker is getting creative.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The freedom to live in safety.

The existence of militarize police forces disproves your assertion.

The existence of militarize police forces PROVES my assertion.

So then Nazi Germany is the quintessential example of a free state?

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The freedom to live in safety.

The existence of militarize police forces disproves your assertion.

The existence of militarize police forces PROVES my assertion.

So then Nazi Germany is the quintessential example of a free state?

The militarized police force in Nazi Germany had a different purpose than ours. Ours is to keep thugs, gangs, terrorists and criminals away from law abiding citizens like me. In other words, to keep good people like me safe.

Not an exhaustive list but ...
--------------------------------
Travel
Emigration
Work (if you can find it)
Public Education
Speech (including criticism of the state)
Assembly
Own Arms (within limits defined)
"Pursuit of Happiness"
"Self Determination"

Edit:
Religion
Freedom from persecution
... insert any other bill of rights topic here

Rew says

Travel

Emigration

Work (if you can find it)

Public Education

Speech (including criticism of the state)

Assembly

Own Arms (within limits defined)

"Pursuit of Happiness"

"Self Determination"

Edit:

Religion

Freedom from persecution

... insert any other bill of rights topic here

Gay marriage.

Strategist says

The militarized police force in Nazi Germany had a different purpose than ours. Ours is to keep thugs, gangs, terrorists and criminals away from law abiding citizens like me. In other words, to keep good people like me safe.

The Nazis said the exact same thing and about the exact same people.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

The militarized police force in Nazi Germany had a different purpose than ours. Ours is to keep thugs, gangs, terrorists and criminals away from law abiding citizens like me. In other words, to keep good people like me safe.

The Nazis said the exact same thing and about the exact same people.

They sure did, but we know they lied. Any evidence to show each successive US government lied? I don't think so.
Dan you need to come up with new bullshit.

Call it Crazy says

Strategist says

Gay marriage.

Is Dan going to invite all of us to his wedding?

Sure he is. Why do you think he keeps asking for you address?

Strategist says

The militarized police force in Nazi Germany had a different purpose than ours. Ours is to keep thugs, gangs, terrorists and criminals away from law abiding citizens like me. In other words, to keep good people like me safe.

Teeheheheheehe.

You know what Hitler told the Obedient Krauts the Gestapo was for right?

Stopping Terrorists.

Are you sure you're not an awesome Poe, Strategist?

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

The militarized police force in Nazi Germany had a different purpose than ours. Ours is to keep thugs, gangs, terrorists and criminals away from law abiding citizens like me. In other words, to keep good people like me safe.

Teeheheheheehe.

You know what Hitler told the Obedient Krauts the Gestapo was for right?

Stopping Terrorists.

Just as I told Dan on comment #19......Dictator Hitler lied. What makes you guys think each democratically elected government of the US is lying about this? You think our government wants to send people to the gas chamber? Who? Jews...Muslims...Gays....Mexicans..... Blacks......Asians.....or tourists?
Give me a break guys. To equate a police force designed to protect the citizen with Hitler and Nazism is just ridiculous.

Strategist says

What makes you guys think each democratically elected government of the US is lying about this?

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Oh, Strategist, bless your naive heart.

Patrick,
Did you notice that there's not been any discussion about the link?
The title of the thread is a great example of misdirection/trolling.
I would bet I can talk some into voting for savior Democrats & Republicans with enough smoke & mirrors. Forget the smoke & mirrors.lol

@Patrick, is there a way to limit the number of user names a single user may have? I find it ridiculous that there are people who go around trolling others by creating similar appearing names and avatars. What useful purpose does it serve? Other than to provide an insight into how obsessive some people are. It's confusing to outsiders and it's designed to be inflammatory to the person being trolled. Can't you at least make it harder for users to have more than one user name?

Strategist says

The freedom to live in safety.

Do you think this level of safety that you refer to is exclusive to the usa?

Strategist says

The militarized police force in Nazi Germany had a different purpose than ours. Ours is to keep thugs, gangs, terrorists and criminals away from law abiding citizens like me. In other words, to keep good people like me safe.

I'm now convinced that he's just doing material. LOL

turtledove says

I find it ridiculous that there are people who go around trolling others by creating similar appearing names and avatars.

And what's even more amazing to me is that supposedly they are adults.

Strategist says

They sure did, but we know they lied. Any evidence to show each successive US government lied?

Your stupidity is matched only by your ignorance.

NSA, DEA, IRS Lie About Fact That Americans Are Routinely Spied On By Our Government

The Obama Administration repeatedly has assured us that the NSA does not collect the private information of ordinary Americans. Those statements simply are not true. We now know that the agency regularly intercepts and inspects Americans’ phone calls, emails, and other communications, and it shares this information with other federal agencies that use it to investigate drug trafficking and tax evasion. Worse, DEA and IRS agents are told to lie to judges and defense attorneys about their use of NSA data, and about the very existence of the SOD, and to make up stories about how these investigations started so that no one will know information is coming from the NSA’s top secret surveillance programs.

NSA directory James Clapper committed perjury before Congress
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZbZt1zLQ11E

It is a lie that the Civil War was about states rights and not slavery

The most widespread myth is also the most basic. Across America, 60 percent to 75 percent of high-school history teachers believe and teach that the South seceded for state's rights, said Jim Loewen, author of "Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong" (Touchstone, 1996) and co-editor of "The Confederate and Neo-Confederate Reader: The 'Great Truth' about the 'Lost Cause'" (University Press of Mississippi, 2010).

"It's complete B.S.," Loewen told LiveScience. "And by B.S., I mean 'bad scholarship.'"

In fact, Loewen said, the original documents of the Confederacy show quite clearly that the war was based on one thing: slavery. For example, in its declaration of secession, Mississippi explained, "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world … a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." In its declaration of secession, South Carolina actually comes out against the rights of states to make their own laws — at least when those laws conflict with slaveholding. "In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals," the document reads. The right of transit, Loewen said, was the right of slaveholders to bring their slaves along with them on trips to non-slaveholding states.

In its justification of secession, Texas sums up its view of a union built upon slavery: "We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

The myth that the war was not about slavery seems to be a self-protective one for many people, said Stan Deaton, the senior historian at the Georgia Historical Society.

"People think that somehow it demonizes their ancestors," to have fought for slavery, Deaton told LiveScience. But the people fighting at the time were very much aware of what was at stake, Deaton said.

And yes, the truth does demonize the South because they were god-damn evil demons doing evil as can be shit.

The Long, Shameful History of American Terrorism

It's official: The U.S. is the world's leading terrorist state, and proud of it.

The first paragraph of the Times article cites three major examples of “covert aid”: Angola, Nicaragua and Cuba. In fact, each case was a major terrorist operation conducted by the U.S.

Angola was invaded by South Africa, which, according to Washington, was defending itself from one of the world's “more notorious terrorist groups”—Nelson Mandela's African National Congress. That was 1988.

By then the Reagan administration was virtually alone in its support for the apartheid regime, even violating congressional sanctions to increase trade with its South African ally.

Meanwhile, Washington joined South Africa in providing crucial support for Jonas Savimbi's terrorist Unita army in Angola. Washington continued to do so even after Savimbi had been roundly defeated in a carefully monitored free election, and South Africa had withdrawn its support. Savimbi was a “monster whose lust for power had brought appalling misery to his people,” in the words of Marrack Goulding, British ambassador to Angola.

The consequences were horrendous. A 1989 U.N. inquiry estimated that South African depredations led to 1.5 million deaths in neighboring countries, let alone what was happening within South Africa itself. Cuban forces finally beat back the South African aggressors and compelled them to withdraw from illegally occupied Namibia. The U.S. alone continued to support the monster Savimbi.

When you wage war against Nelson Mandela, you're the bad guy.

Continuing...

Another example of terrorism will be commemorated on November 16, the 25th anniversary of the assassination of six Jesuit priests in San Salvador by a terrorist unit of the Salvadoran army, armed and trained by the U.S. On the orders of the military high command, the soldiers broke into the Jesuit university to murder the priests and any witnesses—including their housekeeper and her daughter.

This event culminated the U.S. terrorist wars in Central America in the 1980s, though the effects are still on the front pages today in the reports of “illegal immigrants,” fleeing in no small measure from the consequences of that carnage, and being deported from the U.S. to survive, if they can, in the ruins of their home countries.

Washington has also emerged as the world champion in generating terror. Former CIA analyst Paul Pillar warns of the “resentment-generating impact of the U.S. strikes” in Syria, which may further induce the jihadi organizations Jabhat al-Nusra and the Islamic State toward “repairing their breach from last year and campaigning in tandem against the U.S. intervention by portraying it as a war against Islam.”

That is by now a familiar consequence of U.S. operations that have helped to spread jihadism from a corner of Afghanistan to a large part of the world.

Jihadism's most fearsome current manifestation is the Islamic State, or ISIS, which has established its murderous caliphate in large areas of Iraq and Syria.

“I think the United States is one of the key creators of this organization,” reports former CIA analyst Graham Fuller, a prominent commentator on the region. “The United States did not plan the formation of ISIS,” he adds, “but its destructive interventions in the Middle East and the War in Iraq were the basic causes of the birth of ISIS.”

Oh, but that's not even the most perverted thing by far.

U.S. government performs lethal medical experiments on soldiers and civilians

1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells.

1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.

1950 In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.

1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

Humans Used for Radiation Experiments: A Shameful Chapter in US History

This year marks the 20th anniversary of the declassification of top-secret studies, the “Human Radiation Experiments,” done over a period of 30 years, in which the US conducted radiation experiments on as many as 20,000 vulnerable US citizens.

Victims included civilians, prison inmates, federal workers, hospital patients, pregnant women, infants, developmentally disabled children and military personnel — most of them powerless, poor, sick, elderly or terminally ill. Eileen Welsome’s 1999 exposé The Plutonium Files: America’s Secret Medical Experiments in the Cold War details “the unspeakable scientific trials that reduced thousands of men, women, and even children to nameless specimens.”

The program employed industry and academic scientists who used their hapless patients or wards to see the immediate and short-term effects of radioactive contamination — with everything from plutonium to radioactive arsenic. The human subjects were mostly poisoned without their knowledge or consent.

Clinton Apologizes for Radiation Tests

President Clinton apologized Tuesday to the survivors and families of those who unknowingly were subjects of government-sponsored radiation experiments, and ordered his Cabinet to devise a system of relief--including financial compensation.

"When the government does wrong, we have a moral responsibility to admit it," Clinton said. "The duty we owe to one another to tell the truth and to protect our fellow citizens from excesses like these is one we can never walk away from."

Clinton said some of the experiments performed during that period "were unethical not only by today's standards but by the standards of the time. They failed both the test of our national values and the test of humanity."

The experiments "were shrouded not for a compelling reason of national security but for the simple fear of embarrassment, and that was wrong," he added.

Agent Orange was bioterrorism against children
https://www.youtube.com/embed/9zay0zcC0K4

US Infects Guatemalans With STDs
https://www.youtube.com/embed/j8PMZB1bvZE
God bless America

Oh, but somehow militarization of the police, lack of accountability for state-sponsor crime and terrorism, and treating people as sub-human won't negatively affect America like it did Nazi Germany because, well, because, um, magic. Yeah, magic. That will keep us safe.

Let's tally the scoreboard. America vs. Nazi Germany.

1. Genocides
Nazi Germany has one, the Holocaust. America has dozens. Winner: America

2. Slavery
Hands down, America wins.

3. Human experimentation
You'd think this would be carry by the Germans, but America has done far more and has been doing it far longer than the Nazis even existed. One more win for America.

4. Terrorism
Another clear victory for America, having supported and armed more terrorist organizations than any other nation in history.

5. Lies
From domestic spying to torture to foreign coups to arming terrorists to lethal and illegal medical experimentation on civilians, America just has Nazi Germany beat on this one too.

That's a five to nothing KO victory for America over Nazi Germany for the most evil done by a nation-state.

The problem with you fantasy of America, strategist, is that it prevents the real America from being good instead of evil. The first step to solving a problem is admitting its existence. America has a very long and undeniable history of evil. Fantasizing about an alternative reality isn't going to wash that history away. The only patriotic thing to do is to learn from history and stop repeating those mistakes. Unfortunately, you dumb ass conservatives think that learning is for pussies.

The freedom to burn as much oil as you damn well like, until the wells are dry, and to invade other countries if they stand in your way of doing so.,

justme says

The freedom to burn as much oil as you damn well like, until the wells are dry

That's what it's there for.

Dan8267 says

The problem with you fantasy of America, strategist, is that it prevents the real America from being good instead of evil.

America at its best (thank you tterrace!):

http://www.shorpy.com/node/19826?size=_original#caption

Dan8267says: "NSA directory James Clapper committed perjury before Congress."

This is the reason for Stupid Fucking Voters to elect Democrats & Republicans. All the D & R elected officials are demanding prosecution & maximum punishment,it's all over the news. The next action they will take is to stop the intrusion into our privacy.

Without being too offensive, FUCK THESE SIMPLE MINDED VOTERS!

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

They sure did, but we know they lied. Any evidence to show each successive US government lied?

Your stupidity is matched only by your ignorance.

NSA, DEA, IRS Lie About Fact That Americans Are Routinely Spied On By Our Government

LOL. Spying on Americans is part of keeping us safe you fools.
Those who don't appreciate American freedoms are welcome to try Russian Freedoms.

Strategist says

Those who don't appreciate American freedoms are welcome to try Russian Freedoms

Or Cuban, or North Korean, or Chinese, or Iranian...

P N Dr Lo R says

Strategist says

Those who don't appreciate American freedoms are welcome to try Russian Freedoms

Or Cuban, or North Korean, or Chinese, or Iranian...

In 6 months they will come crawling back on their knees. It amuses me when I see people using their freedoms to protest not having their freedoms.

@Patrick, is there a way to limit the number of user names a single user may have? I find it ridiculous that there are people who go around trolling others by creating similar appearing names and avatars. What useful purpose does it serve? Other than to provide an insight into how obsessive some people are. It's confusing to outsiders and it's designed to be inflammatory to the person being trolled. Can't you at least make it harder for users to have more than one user name?

----------------

Shut the fuck up. Dumb bitch

Dan stop fucking with the bandwidth!

Those that don't like Obama, ACA, Marriage Equality,the Confederate flag thrown to the ground & shit on as it should be,can pack up & leave & I will be glad to help them get the fuck out & I don't care where you go. Hell is an option.

Call it Crazy says

TLDR

TLDR is a term used only by illiterate fools whose opinions are worthless. Any subject worth discussing warrants more than two minutes of your attention. Anyone unable to provide that much attention is as immature as a child and his opinions should be weighed accordingly.

HEY YOU says

This is the reason for Stupid Fucking Voters to elect Democrats & Republicans.

We all want a third party to overthrow both Democrats and Republicans. The problem is Wolf's dilemma. The only way to solve this problem is by rewriting election laws and greatly changing the way elections and representation is done by our country. Doing so is technically trivial, but requires enormous political will as both parties benefit greatly from the current system doing everything wrong and will oppose any reform with all their might.

It's not that it's hard to figure out solutions to existing problems or even hard to implement those solutions. The thing stopping us is having the fiat power to implement those solutions. It's a catch-22 when the reforms require the consent of assholes whose power is based on those reforms not being implemented.

Strategist says

LOL. Spying on Americans is part of keeping us safe you fools.

Wrong, but irrelevant. You first made the assertion that Americans live in safety. I disproved this assertion by pointing the the unlimited examples of innocent Americans dying because of the militarization of the police.

You then asserted that the militarization of police forces is what creates safety. I disproved that assertion by showing the counter-example of Nazi Germany.

Next you asserted that the counter-example could not apply to America because the leaders in Nazi Germany lied and American leaders do not. I then gave dozens of examples of American leaders caught lying about extremely important issues including committing perjury before Congress.

Now you are saying those lies are justified. Even if we buy you latest unsubstantiated assertion, the point that the Nazi Germany example disproves militarization of police forces harms innocent citizens still stands.

You are just throwing one red herring after another to avoid learning the lessons of history. There is nothing magical about the United States. The lessons of history apply to all nations and all generations.

Dan8267 says

You then asserted that the militarization of police forces is what creates safety. I disproved that assertion by showing the counter-example of Nazi Germany.

Next you asserted that the counter-example could not apply to America because the leaders in Nazi Germany lied and American leaders do not. I then gave dozens of examples of American leaders caught lying about extremely important issues including committing perjury before Congress.

Now you are saying those lies are justified. Even if we buy you latest unsubstantiated assertion, the point that the Nazi Germany example disproves militarization of police forces harms innocent citizens still stands.

Huh? You asserted America is no different than Nazi Germany. I implied you were nuts.
We need more militarization of the police, because we want more safety. I want every criminal locked up. Every terrorist dead. And I want my freedoms back.

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE??

Dan8267 says

Next you asserted that the counter-example could not apply to America because the leaders in Nazi Germany lied and American leaders do not. I then gave dozens of examples of American leaders caught lying about extremely important issues including committing perjury before Congress.

Strategist says

I want my freedoms back.

You were dumb enough to give them away to the government. Governments never give freedoms back.