patrick.net

Do you wanna ROCK!!? It's partay time!!!

So what does that mean now, it will take only 50 years to pay off a solar array on the roof.

Go affordable Energy Woo HOO!!!

You have an extra dash in the link. It should be:

http://phys.org/news/2015-09-price-solar-energy-states-fallen.html

That 5cents cheaper will be a selling point for charging more for the advanced new and improved models.

Stop pretending this is Yesterday America.

We don't shit if somebody doesn't get paid. 5 cents cheaper solar panels is no excpetion.
Just like you fell for Affordable healthcare. It sure sounds sexy though, duddinit.

Strategist says

fossil fuels will be history

given the vast amount of money fossil fuel producers and refiners stand to lose, it seems likely there will be massive pushback by them against solar somehow. not sure how they can spin it, maybe by claiming solar cell production is bad for the environment. maybe they will just make solar energy production illegal.

Strategist says

fossil fuels will be history

given the vast amount of money fossil fuel producers and refiners stand to lose, it seems likely there will be massive pushback by them against solar somehow. not sure how they can spin it, maybe by claiming solar cell production is bad for the environment. maybe they will just make solar energy production illegal.

Big oil has a lot to lose, literally $ trillions. Those scumbags have half the crooked politicians in their pockets, and no doubt will do anything and everything to preserve their ill gotten gains, at the expense of everyone else.

http://www.salon.com/2015/01/10/we_dare_you_to_stop_us_inside_big_oils_sinister_plan_to_derail_the_anti_carbon_movement_partner/
“We dare you to stop us”: Inside Big Oil’s sinister plan to derail the anti-carbon movement

Strategist says

Payback of 5 years is very accurate.

That's WITH State and Federal rebate incintives. And that's IF you qualify for any at all. Otherwise it takes 30 years to for it to pay for its self.
It shouldn't be proped up by incintives anyway. The desired cost is what the desired cost should be. WIthout tax payer money to help make them an attractive deal.

My message to Big Oil.....“We dare YOU to stop us”
Fossil fuels are choking the future growth of the world's economies, especially the underdeveloped countries, who need to grow quickly if they are to provide a decent standard of living for their billions of impoverished citizens. China, India, and pretty much the rest of the world fully realize there will be no growth without clean energy. Global investment in alternative fuels is expanding exponentially, volume of solar panels and wind turbines produced are growing at record rates, and prices are falling like a rock. There is no way in hell, oil companies with their huge overheads can compete against a cheap solar panel harvesting free fuel from the sun, and virtually no maintenance costs. Solar panels are just a technology that will be commoditized like the cell phone phone.
Think about it......If my car can go 4 miles on a KW of electricity, which is 3 cents a mile based on 11 cents per KW, gasoline is already outdated. Imagine if the KW per hour cost goes down to 4 cents. That's a penny a mile. $10.00 per month for the average driver.
The oil companies have no future. They can lie all they want, bribe all they want, whine all they want, but they can never ever fool everyone all the time.

Tenpoundbass says

Strategist says

Payback of 5 years is very accurate.

That's WITH State and Federal rebate incintives. And that's IF you qualify for any at all. Otherwise it takes 30 years to for it to pay for its self.

It shouldn't be proped up by incintives anyway. The desired cost is what the desired cost should be. WIthout tax payer money to help make them an attractive deal.

That is correct. Government rebates play a big part for now, but it's just a matter of when prices fall low enough for alternative fuels to stand on their own feet.
Oil companies receive $15 billion in annual subsidies. Let start with stopping those.

Our beloved leader said: not sure how they can spin it
No spin necessary. It's called the Duck Curve and it is VERY real. There is a second demand peak around 7:00 pm in the evening, which means utilities have to meet evening demand when solar goes offline. That means additional generating resources that are underutilized the rest of the time. However it's starting to looking more and more like various battery (and battery substitutes) will be used to help smooth out the ducks back. Europe uses HVDC (high voltage DC) lines to power pumped storage in the Scandinavian countries. When the sun goes down, the lines are reversed and energy flows back to the countries with solar farms. I've been talking to some folks involved with small scale commercial farms, and it's looking more like actual batteries may be used with installs so that farms can continue "producing" after the sun goes down. The take away is that solar MUST be cheaper than conventional generation as additional resources are needed to meet evening demand. And, of course, demand scheduling and pricing can also be used to help customers make better choices.
As a side note, PG&E recently increased minimum monthly charges from $4.50 to $10. The LED bulbs I just installed now have a pay back time of -- never. Time to get an electric vehicle.

Solar City will be interesting to watch. They're currently a finance firm that figures out how to take as big of cut as possible of the customers 30% federal tax credit. When the ITC goes away after 2016, they actually have to operate a real business (and get more efficient at what they do). Hence, they're looking doing their own installs and manufacturing their own panels . Fewer, more efficient, panels to install means reduced labor costs. They are in a race against the clock. It will be interesting to see if they have a bankster like implosion, or can turn the corner to profitability.

Strategist says

Oil companies receive $15 billion in annual subsidies. Let start with stopping those.

OK LETS!!!

Why didn't Obama push stopping that tax break to the Oil companies, as well as all of the Agriculture incentives.
That were originally intended to cover small farmer's losses when Produce was a cheap trivial affair.
The same agriculture industry is now measured in Trillions not millions, these are big players, that actually destroy crop and stock to affect the prices. Plus they still get the tax breaks designed to mitigate smaller Actor's losses. Now those incentives boost large players bottom line year end profits. Their production is modified to maximize their biggest rebates and incentives, as well as designed to fetch the largest prices in the Grocery store.

This ME not some Ronald Reagan reject you're talking to. Let's cut all government spending. And start over with the services and programs that are most needed.
REBOOT!

Ironman says

EBGuy says

When the ITC goes away after 2016,

Do you really think it will go away. With this administration pushing for alternative energy and it's past history of giving money away, I doubt it will expire.

Nope. They will just renew the ITC.
I'm all for solar power. It's the energy source of the future. Why help the Saudi terrorists?

Ironman says

Strategist says

Nope. They will just renew the ITC.


I'm all for solar power. It's the energy source of the future. Why help the Saudi terrorists?

Yep, I agree

I've designed a system for my house but waiting a little bit longer for panel prices to come down before I pull the pin. I was concerned that the 30% tax credit might go away next year, but now I doubt it will.

A friend of mine got his system for $5,000 after all the rebates etc. Only a 2.8KW system, though.
Another got his for $8,000. He financed it with nothing down, and now pays about 25% less than what his bills were.
I would get one too, but we might be moving. Solar costs should be even lower next year, when I do get it.
If you get one, don't base it on how much electricity you use right now, but how much electricity you expect to use in the near future. You will be getting an electric car once you get the taste of free electricity straight from the sun.

Ironman says

I doubt it, unless they design an electric truck. I won't drive one of those electric girly cars (well, maybe a Tesla).

:) :)
Once you drive one, you will be convinced it's a man's car. They are powerful.
Tesla is coming out with a cheaper car for $35K. I'm waiting for that.

Ironman says

Strategist says

Once you drive one, you will be convinced it's a man's car. They are powerful.

Want to share with me the horsepower of a Prius or Volt? I doubt they can match my truck.

The Prius and the Volt won't do the job. I don't know the horsepower of the Prius. More like Donkey Power.
Mercedes B Class is pretty good.
Use them as a second car for now. It's only a matter of time before the truck's you like will be electric.

Ironman says

I think I'll pass.... Gas was $1.88 a gallon the other day.

How come you never told me I live in the wrong state?

Strategist says

Global investment in alternative fuels is expanding exponentially, volume of solar panels and wind turbines produced are growing at record rates, and prices are falling like a rock. There is no way in hell, oil companies with their huge overheads can compete against a cheap solar panel harvesting free fuel from the sun, and virtually no maintenance costs. Solar panels are just a technology that will be commoditized like the cell phone phone.

Think about it......If my car can go 4 miles on a KW of electricity, which is 3 cents a mile based on 11 cents per KW, gasoline is already outdated. Imagine if the KW per hour cost goes down to 4 cents. That's a penny a mile. $10.00 per month for the average driver.

The oil companies have no future. They can lie all they want, bribe all they want, whine all they want, but they can never ever fool everyone all the time.

Nice, try reading the article next time. It's about utilities solar projects. Those huge arrays of mirrors aimed at pipes. Not solar panels on someone's roof. The 5 cents per kw is wholesale prices for utilities generated electricity at the generating facility. That's a long way and a bunch of markups from your house.

It's still in the 30 cent range for peoples homes and that's with a huge tax credit that is going away this year. Solar panels may become a commodity but installers won't The biggest cost of a system is the installation at this point.

Dream on, big oil is going to be very profitable for a long, long time.

bob2356 says

Nice, try reading the article next time. It's about utilities solar projects. Those huge arrays of mirrors aimed at pipes. Not solar panels on someone's roof. The 5 cents per kw is wholesale prices for utilities generated electricity at the generating facility. That's a long way and a bunch of markups from your house.

It's still in the 30 cent range for peoples homes and that's with a huge tax credit that is going away this year. Solar panels may become a commodity but installers won't The biggest cost of a system is the installation at this point.

Dream on, big oil is going to be very profitable for a long, long time.

I sense a lot of bias in your comments.
The 5cents wholesale is enough to destroy all fossil fuels, especially oil. Do you really think fossil can compete with 5 cents?
Retail is no doubt higher than 5 cents. If it was 30 cents per KWH like you naively state with subsidies, do you think it would be possible for solar companies to reduce your electricity bill by a minimum of 20% with no down payment? The retail cost is not 6 fold, it's barely twice the cost, making it economical to install solar in 14 states. Soon it will be 50 states.
Oil will not die one day. It will die slowly and painfully day by day. I love it, love it, love it. :)

Hat tip to bob2356 for actually reading the article. And again, to effectively deal with the duck curve, solar thermal needs a storage system to produce power in the evening after the sun has gone down. Currently, some systems use molten salts for storing heat. The cutting edge is a falling particle receiver [which] works by dropping sand-like ceramic particles through a beam of concentrated sunlight, capturing and storing the heated particles in an insulated tank. Efficiencies can reach greater than 90%.