patrick.net

Rough night sodomizing your self again?

And cancer and sickle cell anemia and Tay Sachs and the flu and herpes and aids and blah blah blah blah. Grow up, Dan. It's an imperfect world, which is just about perfect for imperfect people like us. If this world is all there is then it wouldn't be appropriate, but believers don't believe in that.

Dan, the morning after pill is morally mandatory for every girl you sleep with. LOL.

Reality says

Dan, the morning after pill is morally mandatory for every girl you sleep with.

I'll let your mother know.

Ironman says

Luckily, it's very few... I don't think Dan's boyfriend can get pregnant.

Your's can't.

Dan8267 says

What sick god opposes abortion but allows this?

Sounds like nobody here has an answer to that question. A lot of talk, but none of it addresses the moral quandary presented. Only a sick, twisted god would have moral objections to abortions, but build fetus absorption right into nature.

Dan8267 says

Dan, the morning after pill is morally mandatory for every girl you sleep with.

I'll let your mother know.

Dan, boffing classmate's MILF mother is boast-worthy for a boy in grade school, because:

1. The mother is likely still in her 30's, therefore qualify as MILF for someone if she kept herself up well ;
2. Grade school boys have few options in the sexual market place.

OTOH, a 20-something young men bedding an old lady in her 70's is not only not worth bragging, but shameful. What are you? a giglo?

CIC is still upset because animal protective services took custody of his wife.

Still no response to the actual original post. I guess all you conservatives are conceding that your imaginary god is evil as are his moral mandates.

"Kill one man, and you are a murderer.
Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror.
Kill them all, and you are a god."
(Jean Rostand)

God reserves the right to play Russian dolls with fetuses.

Ask Job

Quigley says

It's an imperfect world, which is just about perfect for imperfect people like us.

This is the stupidest possible response to the question at hand. What the fuck does it have to do with the belief that an all-mighty, all-knowing creator of the universe who acts as a moral authority? If you don't have the brains or the balls to address the actual topic at hand, don't bother posting. You're just trolling.

Heraclitusstudent says

Kill them all, and you are a god."

Heraclitusstudent says

God reserves the right to play Russian dolls with fetuses.

Then he is evil and thus no moral authority, and so his opinion on abortion should not matter.

Tenpoundbass says

Ask Job

The story of Job demonstrates the Christian god to be evil and immoral.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/QVgZqnsytJI

Dan8267 says

The story of Job demonstrates the Christian god to be evil and immoral.

Trying to hold God accountable to your standards of morality infringes all his all powerfulness.

"Men think this is just and that is unjust, but to God, all things are fair and good and right."
Heraclitus

Heraclitusstudent says

Trying to hold God accountable to your standards of morality infringes all his all powerfulness.

Omnibenevolence and omnipotence are independent qualities. If your god cannot even meet the most basic moral standards, how can it be the ultimate moral authority?

Dan8267 says

If your god cannot even meet the most basic moral standards, how can it be the ultimate moral authority?

The Hebrews picked up some concepts from Zoroastrianism when slaves in Babylon. Among them the idea that God represents some kind of universal good (whatever that means) and fight the forces of evil. Thus God takes place within dualism instead of transcending it. This idea doesn't make sense for all the reasons you mention.

This is what Genesis (written earlier) was about: You eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and BAAMM... you're kicked out of Eden. You fall in a dual world of opposites: good-evil, light-darkness, male-female, life-death, start-end, etc...

What Buddhism, Taoism, Genesis (and Heraclitus) teach is to go beyond the dualism of this world.
Life may indeed contain horror and suffering, as well joy and wonder. You need to accept the full package.

That all may be true, but it is not relevant to the issue posed by this thread. It is a direct contradiction to claim that a flawless moral authority demands that no woman aborts her unborn offspring when the nature that god allegedly created causes a multitude of unborn offspring to be grotesquely aborted by re-absorption.

The only logically consistent conclusions are
1. God does not exist and therefore consideration of a god should not play in the issue of abortion.
2. God does exist and frequently forces abortions on women either directly or by having set up the laws of nature, and therefore does not consider abortion to be evil.
3. God is evil.

Pick your poison.

God reserves the right to say 'Do as I say, not as I do.' In that regard, he/she is a typical crappy parent.

Dan8267 says

Either your god doesn't exist, or he's fucking evil.

Or "he" isn't a being or entity in any kind of sense that you might imagine, and "he" doesn't micromanage.

YesYNot says

God reserves the right to say 'Do as I say, not as I do.'

That is conceding that god is evil and therefore not a moral authority. Thus his opinion and commandments on abortion would be morally irrelevant.

marcus says

Or "he" isn't a being or entity in any kind of sense that you might imagine, and "he" doesn't micromanage.

Your assertion is irrelevant and meaningless. The issue at hand is simply that any god who considers abortion, say with the morning after pill, to be morally abhorrent must also consider fetus re-absorption as described above to be at least as morally abhorrent. Such a god could not create nature to allow for this horrific event and be omnipotent and a moral authority. Such a god could prevent this from ever happening, and if he chose not to, would not be morally consistent.

Regardless of what nonsensical fantasies you have about an unintelligible god, this contradiction is crystal clear. Furthermore, anyone who claims that abortion is immoral and does not morally condemn a god that allows these most horrific abortions forced on mothers against their wills, is simply being a hypocrite.

If you do not have a solution to this problem, then you should at least exercise the intellectual integrity to concede that rather than trying to subvert the honest discussion of the problem. Regardless of your deep dislike of me, I am irrelevant to the problem. The person mentioning the problem is not an actor in the problem. So get over yourself. This issues isn't about you or me. If you can muster the maturity to actually discuss the contradiction as an adult and attempt to resolve it, then more power to you. However, based on your history, I doubt you will choose to take that course of action. Feel free to prove me wrong for once. I'd like to be wrong.

Dan8267 says

Regardless of your deep dislike of me, I am irrelevant to the problem.

Actually I don't dislike you as much as you think. Just sometimes, your online personality. But it had nothing to do with my comment. Actually I wasn't even responding to your point about abortion which I understand and don't take issue with.

I really was responding to one and only one thing. The ridiculous anthropomorphising of "god."

Dan8267 says

Only a sick god would allow vanishing twin syndrome. There is no moral justification for such a phenomenon. There is no cosmic plan that could possibly require this to ever happen. Either your god doesn't exist, or he's fucking evil.

It's pretty much a straw man, that is there is an embedded straw man there, unless you're talking to a child or a fundamentalist.

The morality of abortion is a relative thing. IT may be immoral to use abortion willy nilly as a form of birth control, but not as bad as bringing a child in to a bad and dysfunctional situation, e.g. to a mother that's a drug addict living with an abusive man. But it's an incredibly divisive issue, that can not be argued with someone who somehow thinks they know for sure that a zygote is a fully human person with a soul.

I do believe that abortion has contributed to the decreasing crime rate from 1970 to present.

marcus says

I do believe that abortion has contributed to the decreasing crime rate from 1970 to present.

And perhaps missing out on a cure for cancer, which seems to be a current obsession on the site. And where is that great economic boon that should have accrued with 40 plus million fewer children to support?

marcus says

Actually I don't dislike you as much as you think.

I can only base my assessment of you on your posts. Every time you response to a question or dilemma I post, you make the conversation about me, and that's just plain stupid. A philosophical debate has nothing to do with the persons participating in the debate. It has to do with the subject matter. Your response to a proposed truth should address the proposal, not the person making it. Otherwise you come off as having personal issues with the other person and your personal issues carry no weight in discussing a subject matter that is not about that person.

marcus says

I really was responding to one and only one thing. The ridiculous anthropomorphising of "god."

The contradiction I demonstrated in the original post does not anthropomorphize any god. The laws of logic are immutable and apply to everything, not just hairless apes. That you think I was anthropomorphizing the character of god speaks only about the internal state of your mind, not mine. I do not need or care to anthropomorphize any god. Religion has already done this.

marcus says

Dan8267 says

Only a sick god would allow vanishing twin syndrome. There is no moral justification for such a phenomenon. There is no cosmic plan that could possibly require this to ever happen. Either your god doesn't exist, or he's fucking evil.

It's pretty much a straw man, that is there is an embedded straw man there, unless you're talking to a child or a fundamentalist.

Calling something a straw man does not make it so. I challenge you to demonstrate that my argument is a straw man. I suggest you first read up about the Straw Man Argument on at least one of several excellent sites: Nizkor, Your Logical Fallacy Is, and Rational Wiki. Then demonstrate that my argument is a straw man, if you can, by breaking my argument down into the straw man form. This should be trivially easy for you to do if in fact you are correct.

Of course you won't be able to do this because I never make straw man arguments. They serve absolutely no purpose to someone with my philosophical beliefs. I am only motivated to convince people of things that I actually believe are true and I believe things if and only if there is legitimate rational reasons to do so that are supported by unerring logic or valid evidence. In other words, I don't choose what I believe, the laws of nature and reasoning chooses for me. If you actually understood this about me, you wouldn't think that I ever would make a straw man argument. But even though I'm explaining this to you as clearly as can be, I doubt you'll understand it. You have created mental blocks on understanding things that threaten your world view, and that's solely your failing.

marcus says

The morality of abortion is a relative thing.

Whether or not that is so is not the discussion of this thread. There are plenty of other threads about abortion and you are free to open a new one to debate that matter. This thread addresses the contradiction of a god that morally prohibits abortions yet practices a particularly morbid form of forced abortion.

The same goes for all your other arguments about abortion. There is no point in derailing this thread to deal with other issues when the issue of the original post has not even been addressed by any post other than the original.

Dan8267 says

It's pretty much a straw man, that is there is an embedded straw man there, unless you're talking to a child or a fundamentalist.

Calling something a straw man does not make it so.

So you're saying you don't understand what I meant ?

Jesus Christ, Marcus. Do you really have to demonstrate every criticism I make in the very next post you make. Not getting enough irony in your diet?