patrick.net

All right, so where are all the defenders of Love INC?

Where's the defense that Belinda would have loved Morgan, whether or not he was a scion of British/American Pine-Hollywood?

And that if Morgan was born into a dysfunctional family, studied STEM, and made a career for himself, and Belinda would have been moved by his life's story?

Rin you can't be getting that much boodie if you're here talking about feeling bad about it more than you're not.

You don't need a girl friend, quit rushing shit. Love isn't planned, it just happens if you're doing it right.
You might end up one of those late 50's mid 60's guy with mid 20's wife, that you would absolutley die for.
Just enjoy what you're doing now, and try not do/catch anything you'll regret later.

Rin says

gets a hot pop singer

Belinda Carlisle was a chubby little pop star, and if you are looking for guidance from a music video, I'd suggest looking elsewhere.

For a supposed canadian SlutMeister, you sure take in a lotta daytime mamma's boy soap operas....

Rin says

All right, so where are all the defenders of Love INC?

Where's the defense that Belinda would have loved Morgan, whether or not he was a scion of British/American Pine-Hollywood?

SoftShell says

All right, so where are all the defenders of Love INC?

Where's the defense that Belinda would have loved Morgan, whether or not he was a scion of British/American Pine-Hollywood?

Well if he's truley a master then it's research.

Rub their shoulders while you talk about Days of our lives. Next thing you know he's Bob Barker spinning that wheel.

1986? That's so much in the olden days, maybe they actually did have true love in those days.

His pecker probably fell off when he turned 40, and they have a lovely platonic arrangement now with no drama. Maybe she didn't have a carnivorous enough lawyer to break the pre-nup.

She could have been a perfect spouse, and would order in the hookers every week for him until he bonded with her irrevocably. Nothing else could explain three decades of marriage.

Maybe she has kept him in a dungeon in her basement for decades. Has anyone seen him since the wedding?

I know, this is a strange mystery that calls for much deep speculation and wonderment.

Yes, I'm stuck working weekends locally and thus, my trips up north have dwindled. I only get in, one poke every 6-7 weeks.

Thus, I'm stuck at stupid gatherings, talking to future donors of X, Y, or Z. This is the problem with playing the friggin' game in America, where one is selling oneself all the time. First, it was to get this firm to grow and now, it's to get the medical schools to recognize me as a big shot fund raiser and promoter of philanthropy.

If I play this game well, my chances of admissions at pretty much every US medical school, increases exponentially.

Which then loops back to the Belinda/Morgan story. In America, ppl like their fairy tales. When ppl donate to a cause, they don't want to be burdened with the truth that in reality, they're paying for the overhead of an organization. Instead, they want to believe that they're a part of the action. And thus, when a new clinical wing opens, they want to see a patient being healed there, as a part of their own work.

And thus ... "That girl who couldn't walk, is able to walk unassisted because of you!"

Ceffer says

She could have been a perfect spouse, and would order in the hookers every week for him until he bonded with her irrevocably. Nothing else could explain three decades of marriage.

I think it's the power of delusion. Remember, it's not me, it's Morgan. This guy probably is at best, little more than a dumb rich kid, son of a famous Pine-Hollywooder, with little going on the inside, besides being born into fame. I'm sure that being with a pop singer is all that this guy needs and as for Belinda, she'd gotten herself married into the LA elite with a guy, who probably doesn't have much testosterone to pull a Charlie Sheen.

So all she needs is a dildo and some gal pals, to go down on her, and life is good. Morgan can get in his weekly boinks and he's satisfied.

Blurtman says

Belinda Carlisle was a chubby little pop star

Baby fat is not the same as a fatso. She's got a healthy mix of fat and muscle. As long as she applies Diamond Dallas Page's workout regimen, she'll look fine for a good number of years. I doubt it but the genetic potential is there.

WTF, I work a full 7 days per week! I hate it! I wish I were simply born rich and I'd have what I want!

I'm typing this shit between functions and gatherings!

Rin says

Which then loops back to the Belinda/Morgan story. In America, ppl like their fairy tales. When ppl donate to a cause, they don't want to be burdened with the truth that in reality, they're paying for the overhead of an organization. Instead, they want to believe that they're a part of the action. And thus, when a new clinical wing opens, they want to see a patient being healed there, as a part of their own work.

MMR, do you have anything to add here?

Jerkin off and cleanin up?

Rin says

WTF, I work a full 7 days per week! I hate it! I wish I were simply born rich and I'd have what I want!

I'm typing this shit between functions and gatherings!

Infatuation happens when you think the other person is perfect. I remember it used to make me sort of sick to my stomach with longing and nerves.
Love happens only when and if you realize they are not perfect, and like them even more. That's not a feeling. It's a choice born of empathy, creating a bond that gives more feeling than infatuation could ever bring.

Rin, perhaps you should consider having children through the surrogate route? Three people I know have done it and seem very happy with their decision.
One was a real life immense hirsute lesbian and her IHL partner.
But the other 2 were straight women over 40 -who for whatever reason never got into a full time relationship and just decided if they were going to have kids, it is now. Both are just average-as in financial condition. You can certainly afford it?

Interpreting life through a pop culture song?
Sounds like you don't get out much.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Interpreting life through a pop culture song?

Then ask yourself this ... why do so many women believe in the *content of that music video*?

Even my own sister had bought into those myths, until she started beating down upon her husband because in reality, she wasn't looking for that perfect life, just a continuation of an abuse cycle.

You see, the problem with many of you on this board is that you believe that somehow ... this problem originated in me.

How about instead, looking that the BS that ppl tell themselves, all of the time?

In other words, stop blaming Rin; I'm only the messenger.

lostand confused says

having children through the surrogate route?

I believe the Portuguese soccer player, Cristiano Ronaldo, had done this. But last I'd checked, his net worth was approaching Shaq's $300M. With that sort of cash, I could do a hell of a lot of things.

Rin says

I believe the Portuguese soccer player, Cristiano Ronaldo, had done this. But last I'd checked, his net worth was approaching Shaq's $300M. With that sort of cash, I could do a hell of a lot of things.

If this is something that you are seriously considering, here's the estimated price breakdown:

Agency Fee: $18,000 (You have to go through an agency; finding someone on Craigslist is riddled with problems)
Attorney Contract Fees: $4,000
Surrogate Mother Compensation: $36,000 to $50,000 depending on prior experience.
Medical Insurance Policy Review: $200
Trust Account Management Fee: $1,500
Surrogate Psychological Screening: $225
Surrogate Medical Screening: $3,000
Surrogate + Intended Parent Background Check Fees: $500
Surrogate Life Insurance: $595
Surrogate Medical Insurance Premium: $11,000
Parental Establishment Process Fees: $5,000
Donor Egg Compensation: $6,500 (average, though could be as high as $10,000; ASRM says no higher than $10K, but I've seen "specialty" donor agencies demand $50k for a particular donor.)
Donor Egg Legal & Agency Fee: $7,000
Fertility Center Fee for IVF cycle to get eggs: $9,000
Medications for Donor: $2,000
Pre-implantation Genetic Screening to rule out all the female embryos, as I recommend you only have boys: $5,000
Travel & Hotel for donor and surrogate after retrieval and respective transfer if they aren't local to your clinic: $1,000
Frozen Embryo Transfer of screened embryos: $4,300 (subsequent cycles should be cheaper assuming you don't change surrogates, est. $3,300)
Medications for Surrogate: $500
Post transfer monitoring (not covered as regular OB visits): $1,500

Total Estimated Cost: $120,820 give or take depending on experience of surrogate, as well as the donor.

turtledove says

Total Estimated Cost: $120,820 give or take depending on experience of surrogate, as well as the donor.

Against Cristiano's ~$300M, that's almost like one's lunch money.

turtledove says

as I recommend you only have boys:

What is the reasoning behind this recommendation?

justme says

What is the reasoning behind this recommendation?

His opinion of women.

turtledove says

justme says

What is the reasoning behind this recommendation?

His opinion of women.

I don't think his opinion is of the genetic difference between men and women, but rather what women do with it. In my opinion, go ahead Rin and have some girls, too.

Rin, One thing to look out for is the surrogate's history of pregnancies (whether aborted or born to term). Research shows that a woman's body remembers the previous pregnancies, maybe even the gender of the baby, and this affects the hormonal exposure generated for and experienced by later children. For example, there is statistical support that pregnancy number 2 often produces a child with more feminine qualities than pregnancy 1. To put it more plainly, male #2 children are more likely to be gay.

I can think of evolutionary reasons for this to be the case (I'll give you a hint: Cain and Abel), so the mother's body may be trying to do what is best for genetic survival, but you would want to know exactly what you are getting. Otherwise your firstborn son may end up being an intended team player in the genetic survival of the mother, but not for yours.

Oh, and one more thing. Did you read those articles that describe how DNA from father number1 also is found lingering in the mother's body, with unknown effects on future children of other fathers.

turtledove says

Total Estimated Cost: $120,820 give or take depending on experience of surrogate, as well as the donor

Is it as high if you outsource it? I think India has a whole village where all the women serve as surrogates for a fraction of the fee.
of course if you are a woman, I think it is much cheaper. The 3 people I know are all women who decided to go this route. One was a IHL-a real one! But the other 2 were just your average straight women in decent jobs, nothing great in term of jobs. Just reached 40+ and realized it was now or never.

lostand confused says

But the other 2 were just your average straight women in decent jobs, nothing great in term of jobs. Just reached 40+ and realized it was now or never.

In what sense did these women use a surrogate? Are you just talking about a sperm donor?

justme says

In what sense did these women use a surrogate? Are you just talking about a sperm donor?

Well, one woman who was early 40s actually managed to carry the child-but selected a donor and had the procedure done-not sure if she had fertility treatments. The other one was mid 40s, decided to go the surrogate route-so her egg, some anonymous dude's sperm and carried by another person. I am not sure she outsourced it to india or did it local-these things, kinda awkward to ask.

But both women are quite happy as well as the lesbian couple.

Rin says

Blurtman says

Belinda Carlisle was a chubby little pop star

Baby fat is not the same as a fatso. She's got a healthy mix of fat and muscle. As long as she applies Diamond Dallas Page's workout regimen, she'll look fine for a good number of years. I doubt it but the genetic potential is there

I'm looking at her 'Circle In the Sand' video ... how is this some fat chick?

If anything, her attire and mannerisms in this video, makes her look like a classy New England lady (as oppose to some SoCal pop bimbo). This almost looks like a proper American lady, strolling alongside a Maine beach, perhaps only a couple of hours north of the greater Boston area.

www.youtube.com/embed/cX8GzhAFPeY

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samantha-rodman-phd/i-dont-love-my-husband-an_b_8846602.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Article excerpt:

My husband and I have been married 7 years, together 12, one 5 year old daughter. He's a hard worker and does really well, I gave up my job to stay at home (which I think was a bad idea in my case). I know empirically that he is a good, kind, decent man and he loves me. But knowing that doesn't help me manage my feelings of resentment and repulsion (revulsion? It amounts to about the same). Anyone on the outside would think I'm utterly crazy to even consider ever leaving this marriage (which I'm not in a position to do anyway), but I can't help feeling like I just don't love him anymore. Respect? Sure. Even admire as a person. But love? Meh.

Every little thing annoys me. I probably started falling out of love when we had a baby. He wanted kids way more than me, but then he wasn't around nearly as much as I wanted and I got really frustrated. Things have gotten better as she got older but not as much as I would like. Since I'm home, he's a total slob, which drives me CRAZY. It's death by 1000 cuts. The sex is not good, as he has had some, ahem, performance issues lately and so it doesn't last very long. He knows I'm unhappy but I doubt he knows how much. He's always grabbing at me, which I know is just him expressing affection, but I find really irritating, especially when I'm in the middle of a chore.

I'm attracted to other men but I realize if I were to be with someone else, in the long run it'd probably be the same or worse. If money wasn't an object, and my kid was a little older, I think I would consider divorce. Or maybe it could get better as she gets a little less dependent. I just don't know how long I can live in these circumstances feeling as I feel.

Rin says

MMR, do you have anything to add here

I have a cousin who is getting married in April who wants people to donate to at Jude's children research hospital. They seem to be low overhead but as most big charities go, there is still lack of transparency. This appears to be some new fashion statement, and rather brainless.

I agree that people like to be "part of the action" but if they don't bother to see how the money is going to be spent, then they are usually vapid morons.

These are some sites about good vs bad charities based on various, somewhat overlapping criteria but there appears to be a lack of overlap in the charities listed.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/12/best-and-worst-charities-for-your-money/index.htm

https://www.charitywatch.org/top-rated-charities

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?FromRec=661&bay=search.results&overallrtg=4

Rin says

America, ppl like their fairy tales. When ppl donate to a cause, they don't want to be burdened with the truth that in reality, they're paying for the overhead of an organization.

That and maybe a tax write-off. It also helps them to, in many instances, absolve their guilt about having a lot of money, especially if it is something they are born into.

I had to take a marriage course in grad program, and it was conducted by a husband wife team of marriage counselors. It was one of the funniest classes I ever took.

The marriage counselors were the Abbot and Costello of contradictory folly. The course involved a lot of standard stuff like mirroring, purpose of therapy, role playing etc. However, the two of them would often put out the standard psychology pap ideals about love, caring, devotion and mutual respect. Then the man would say something the woman didn't like, and she would glare at him and then just light into him. She debagged him this way about three times during each class session leaving him cowering.

They once rattled on about how married people should be completely truthful and honest with each other and how essential this was to a blissful and caring relationship. The poor whipped male counselor, besotted in a trance of his own bullshit, told her something personal in front of the class that left her absolutely livid and accusatory and she lit into him double time.

Basically, they took every soap opera line that they preached, and then illustrated that it was completely bogus by their actual behavior in front of the class, usually with the female counselor attacking and arguing or dressing down the male counselor. He would often fight back, but usually from a pretty cowed stance. This was not intentional, it just showed that what is preached, even passed off as therapy, isn't what is practiced.

I wound up feeling sorry for them promulgating these stock psychology party lines about relationships when they couldn't even recognize the reality of their own behaviour.

We, the students, would go to lunch and laugh about it all for another hour.

turtledove says

Total Estimated Cost: $120,820 give or take depending on experience of surrogate, as well as the donor.

Heck, just take a paintball gun full of your sperm to the ghetto, ask them to spread on the curb, and fire. Tell them they can keep the welfare check if they allow as much visitation as you can stand.

Ceffer, thank you for sharing that memory.
It's hilarious in the "you can't make this stuff up" category.

Rin says

I'm stuck working weekends

WTF, I have to now attend two Christmas gatherings on the 25th!

For one of them, I have a platonic female friend as a companion but now, for the second one, I need to pay a companionship escort service, $300/hr for short notice and the fact that it's a holiday. And what's pathetic about it is that there's no boinking involved as it's legit and of course, in America. If this were Australia, I could have killed two birds with one stone.

All I wanted for Christmas was to sleep for the entire 25th of December and I can't even have that.

Seriously, I'm going to take a sick day in Jan, fly (not drive to Montreal), bang like crazy and then, fly into work the following morning.

Rin says

need to pay a companionship escort service, $300/hr for short notice and the fact that it's a holiday.

It's just the cost of doing business. Fortunately for you, you've found a cheaper way of getting your arm candy than most of your colleagues. Now stop whining about everything you don't like, and go make some more money to give away to charity. You need to do more if you want people to love you.

When a woman has a child, she falls in love.
With the child.
Way more than she ever did or will with you.
Don't be jealous.
Love the child and try to tolerate her.
That really all you can do.

Quigley says

When a woman has a child, she falls in love.

With the child.

She falls in love with the child, which is the new herself.

lostand confused says

Is it as high if you outsource it? I think India has a whole village where all the women serve as surrogates for a fraction of the fee.

of course if you are a woman, I think it is much cheaper. The 3 people I know are all women who decided to go this route. One was a IHL-a real one! But the other 2 were just your average straight women in decent jobs, nothing great in term of jobs. Just reached 40+ and realized it was now or never.

People certainly do try to do it in other countries to save money. But you have to be careful. The laws can be very unsupportive of both the intended parents and the surrogate. For example, there was a Chinese couple that decided to engage an Indian surrogate. The Chinese couple got divorced. India wouldn't let the baby out of the country. The extremely poor surrogate ended up stuck with the baby... that wasn't genetically hers.

However that whole mess ended up, these kinds of things just don't happen here. California is considered one of the friendliest places in the world for surrogacy. People come from everywhere to do it here because our laws protect both the intended parents as well as the donors and surrogates. Oregon is pretty good, too. No one gets their babies taken away... and no one gets stuck raising other people's children. AND, no one has to hide and lie about what they are doing.

Example of yet another woman that did not fulfill her part of the bargain: Justine Musk was at some point garnering sympathy by submitting stories to the press. Read the story in Marie Claire magazine, read between the lines, and see if you can muster sympathy for her.

http://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/advice/a5380/millionaire-starter-wife/

Justine cannot decide whether she was a starter wife or a trophy wife, apparently, as she says both. And she is whining about how the man she married continued to be the man she married. And that he once said something supportive about her becoming a writer, but didn't do it again. Justine was a college graduate (big deal), a sometime ESL teacher and bartender that married a rich guy, and all she got was a $6M mansion in bel-air. Poor Justine. No mention of the child support and other cash prices

Here is something Elon Musk had to say about the case.

http://www.businessinsider.com/correcting-the-record-about-my-divorce-2010-7

PS: I think my opinion of Elon Musk and his oil-wasting and money-wasting enterprises is well documented, but that is unrelated to his marriage.

turtledove,

Do people considering a surrogate get a full pregnancy and abortion history from the surrogate? Is it verifiable?

turtledove says

However that whole mess ended up, these kinds of things just don't happen here. California is considered one of the friendliest places in the world for surrogacy.

Also, the baby can run for President, even if neither biological parents are US citizens nor immigrant green card holders in the country. What a gift for a kid, he/she can be a foreigner and an American at the same time.

It sucks that my parents' ancestors had to emigrate here, for me to run for President someday, once I become rich and prostitution is legalized in this so-called free nation.

FYI (for the conspiracy folks) ... I don't care if Obama was born in Kenya. If his mom is American, he's American by ancestry. Really, I don't care about some stupid timeline statute that a woman can't pass her ancestry to her child, back in the stone ages. That's a bunch of horseshit, as far as I'm concerned.

justme says

Do people considering a surrogate get a full pregnancy and abortion history from the surrogate? Is it verifiable?

Here, we do. Absolutely! The surrogate must provide a complete medical history. She must pass a background check, home study, psychological evaluation, and medical exam. She'll be tested for a whole host of diseases. All of this is necessary before the lawyer will issue a legal clearance to proceed with treatment.

Now if you're asking if a surrogate could lie... Obviously, that's a possibility. Hopefully, those types are vetted to reduce the risk. In my experience, vetted surrogates work out just fine. It's when a person tries to find an independent surrogate on Craigslist, for example, that they get taken for a ride. For example, it is a fairly common Craigslist trick to advertise oneself as a surrogate. When you find a parent who likes you, you ask for a retainer to take your ad off while you get to know each other. Then, after a few weeks, the person disappears or comes up with something for why she cannot go through with it. Of course, she said the same thing to several intended parents, so she makes out like a bandit. You just have to be really careful. Agencies are more expensive, but you are considerably less likely to run into these kinds of problems.

Keep in mind that most people who are willing to be a commercial surrogate are going to have some instability in their histories. Let's just say that surrogates aren't typically fortune 500 CEOs. Surrogates don't tend to have a lot of education... they already have kids (almost always required for legal clearance)... Some are in a difficult spot and surrogacy is the only way they can earn the kind of money they need. Let's face it... Many are doing it for the money. I have one woman who is super sweet, fairly intelligent, and dependable. She was married to a guy and had three children who are now between the ages of 1 and 6. Long story, short, the father died in a car wreck. She's attracted to surrogacy because it will provide her with an income and enable her to still take care of her kids.