patrick.net

What kind of dimbulb is it that can't even understand her point of view, which I and many people find to be obvious.

If you declare all of Islam to be the enemy of the free world, you're more likely to increase the problem than to decrease it.

I guess the benefit of the Trump/Patrick/TLips/Blurtman approach is that you get to vent your hate. But if that causes more terrorism and further polarizes the world leading possibly to who knows what down the line ?

What kind of arrogance and stupidity does it take to not even comprehend the other view, even if you disagree with it ?

The best sign someone is wrong, is if you see that they never acknowledge or present an argument that shows they are willing to even begin to comprehend the best arguments against their point of view.

What would please Isis is if we do what Trump says, and basically declare war on all of Islam. They would so love that. It is what they want.

Modifying behavior to appease aggressors is never the answer, as history as has shown time and time again. Hillary is extremely full of herself, but is a dunce when it comes to foreign policy. Invading Iraq - wrong. Destabilizing Libya - wrong. Bleating that Assad will be gone - wrong. Propping up terrorists to oust Assad - a total disaster. Giving a shit what iSIS thinks - not the sign of a real leader.

Her and Obama are the giver of Shits about ISIS' feelings.

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marcus says

If you declare all of Islam to be the enemy of the free world, you're more likely to increase the problem than to decrease it.

And if you don't speak the truth about Islam, you have no courage or intellectual integrity. And so we have the weird situation that Trump, otherwise frequently a clown, actually has more courage and intellectual integrity than Hillary or Obama.

Islam is inherently the enemy of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and pretty much everything else the free world believes in. This is the nature of the religion itself, and always was that way. If you don't believe me, try drawing a cartoon of mohammed. I'm not saying all Muslim people are bad. They are human. Islam itself is bad.

There's no need to try to be insulting about it, but if Muslims choose to be insulted when you speak the truth, that's their choice.

Blurtman says

Giving a shit what iSIS thinks - not the sign of a real leader.

Giving a shit how successful Isis is, is the sign of a real leader, as is giving a shit whether radical Islamic terrorism in the world increases or decreases.

Anyone who thinks declaring a war on all of Islam will decrease terrorism in the world, in the short run or the long run, is a total idiot in my opinion.

Anyone who refuses to seriously examine the question of what the effect of declaring war on Islam will be, but wants to do so anyway, is even worse than an idiot.

And if you don't speak the truth about Islam

I have no interest in over simplified generalizations motivated by fear and hate, that you obsessively call "truth."

I will agree with you though about Saudi Arabia. But when you consider that, and our relationship with them, it becomes clear that there is something more complicated going on, than just being willing to frame an ancient religious text in an evil light.

www.youtube.com/embed/YCedWxlG90M

marcus says

Giving a shit how successful Isis is,

You can be opposed to Trump's halting Muslim immigration into the USA, but to worry about what ISIS will think about what a candidate for president in the USA says, is a sign of not only weakness, but preposterous incompetence, which accompanies a long list of Hillary's past deeds of disaster. But she does seem to appeal to the low bandwidth type sheeple.

marcus says

that you obsessively call "truth."

motivated principally by the bald-faced lie that islam is the "religion of peace" as obama put it.

that's so absolutely wrong and dishonest it's comical and criminal at the same time.

Blurtman says

marcus says

Giving a shit how successful Isis is,

You can be opposed to Trump's halting Muslim immigration into the USA, but to worry about what ISIS will think about what a candidate for president in the USA says, is a sign of not only weakness, but preposterous incompetence, which accompanies a long list of Hillary's past deeds of disaster. But she does seem to appeal to the low bandwidth type sheeple

Hillary is a disaster but for once she is right. Trump is insulting all of islam and the couple percent of bad actors in islam is going to use it to further their cause. For the low bandwidth posters who have poor reading comprehension she never said she cared what ISIS would think. She said ISIS would use trumps comments to their advantage.

You guys are playing right into the hands of the polticos who use every opportunity (poverty,drugs, tax evasion, terrorism, etc.) that comes along to further their agenda's and take good care of their oligarch masters (pretty much the same thing) which is definitely NOT in your best interest. I would think by now people would have learned from previous examples that the government declaring a war on anything means rich people get richer and average people get screwed and things actually get worse. No way any politico is going after the root cause of radical islamic terrorism. That would mean going after saudi arabi and there is far too much money involved for that to happen. So what we will continue to have is the government gaining power and enriching the real rulers of the country while giving us a good show to keep the sheeple who are too lazy to think for themselves (a number of posters on patnet for example) entertained as well as being in enough fear to keep scarfing up the kool aid and actually promoting the cause like good sheeple should.

In todays mature anti-detection environment, 'low bandwidth' is a plus making it harder for them to see you amongst the high bandwidth mindless chatter...

bob2356 says

For the low bandwidth posters who have poor reading comprehension she never said she cared what ISIS would think.

I watched the debate last night. Bernie and O'Malley made a point several times that they would go after ISIS first and then take care of Assad. Hillary wants to do both at the same time which is failing right now. Attacking Trump is meaningless when the strategy she will pursue in the middle east will only result in more terrorism.

bob2356 says

she never said she cared what ISIS would think. She said ISIS would use trumps comments to their advantage.

That is the same thing. Why do you care what someone think-if you are not worried about what they do? You never worry about what a homeless person in some other city thinks of you-you only worry about people who matter-people whose actions affect you think.

bob2356 says

No way any politico is going after the root cause of radical islamic terrorism. That

The only one who brings it up is Trump. And no it is not Saudi. Islmaists cause havoc in every corner of the globe-India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, America, paris, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Chechnya,Turkey and even Saudi-yes Saudi itself has had bombings. When they have other non Islamists they bomb/kill/maim them-when they don't they bomb different sects/beliefs of Islamists. It transcends country/region etc. Trump called it out and should be given a medal.

It really is not that difficult-I lived in an Islamist country for a few years as a child. Even though I am not Islamist, you could not eat outside during Ramadan, they even censored TV to remove any semblance of non islamist Gods/religion. I am not sure what they do with the internet and satellite dish programming now. I was in Egypt when Mubarak was there and was shocked to see soft porn in my hotel room when I turned the channel on.

My experience with islamists is that they are just like regular , normal people. But something about that religion can turn a significant number into suicide bombers. Something about that religion allows people growing up in different cultures/different regions of the globe to answer the call of jihad and blow themselves up in the name of Allah-their despicable God. When we held a cartoon convention-they tried to shoot people-incidents in Amsterdam and paris reflect the same mentality-citizen growing up here, willing to die for 72 virgins.

Methinks it is time to confront it and not pussyfoot around it and Trump is the only one doing so-not that bag lady Hillary. She wants Muslims, blacks, whoever to have a space space and then they can come and blow us up or demand welfare benefits and live opff us and then go back to their safe space and nobody should say anything.

Yes there hjas been a war on terror-it has yielded nothing-perhaps it is time to see if other tactics will. It didn't work for the soviets either and that jihadi nation Turkey . It is tough dealing with enemies that are happy to die and take you with them, what I am looking for a leader is to have a stronger solution. There is a solution for every problem. Coddling them and diverting to climate change or gun control is not the answer. Talking about it, bringing it forth and calling out muslims for the violent faith it is -is courage. I mean we make fun of scientology and Christianity-why not call out jihadis err Muslims? Remember it is the duty of every Muslim to wage jihad-to them it seems to mean bomb trains and kill innocent women, children and men.

Obligatory:

" he is becoming ISIS' best recruiter"

Oh so she knows he will be the next president? How else could he take over the role of ISIS best recruiter, being that is Obama admin (IHLary included) gig for drone bombing their school kids and weddings

lostand confused says

The only one who brings it up is Trump. And no it is not Saudi. Islmaists cause havoc in every corner of the globe-India, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, America, paris, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Chechnya,Turkey and even Saudi-yes Saudi itself has had bombings. When they have other non Islamists they bomb/kill/maim them-when they don't they bomb different sects/beliefs of Islamists. It transcends country/region etc. Trump called it out and should be given a medal.

True it is not just saudi. It's saudi, qatar, kuwait, but the saudis have long been big the biggest players by far. Any idea where a big chunk of saudi oil revenue. mostly from america. goes to? Who do you think sets up and funds all the madras schools all over the globe teaching hate and fundamentalism. Basically terrorist training facilities. Who do you think funds the radical fundamentalist imams all over the globe teaching hate, holy war, anti west, and fundamentalism? Pretty much any terrorist rock you turn over has saudi fingerprints all over it if you trace the money far enough back. Groups like ISIS and al-Nusrah Front actually hold fundraisers to attract angel investors. Good luck hearing about it from the us government or mainstream press. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/14/how-saudigulf-money-fuels-terror/

Blurtman says

Clinton said that Americans need to work more closely with the Muslim American community because 'they will be our early warning signal' against possible terrorist attacks.

Bwahahahaahaa, like CAIR and ICNA?

bob2356 says

. It's saudi, qatar, kuwait, but the saudis have long been big the biggest players by far. Any idea where a big chunk of saudi oil revenue. mostly from america. goes to?

And they Love Hillary, giving her the most expensive gifts, both to herself and the Clinton Foundation.

Again, the most fascinating thing about Islamic Terror is all the Identitarian Leftists who are so quick to defend the mileu in which it rises. Yet if some stinky pastor in Florida threatens to burn a Koran, they all scream bloody murder about a Christian theocracy being right around the corner.

The mostly Arab and Pashtu Terrorists do not think of themselves as oppressed - temporarily weak, tricked by evil Jews and Crusaders, perhaps, but not fundamentally inferior or oppressed - but the bearers of the real Truth and the Perfect Future, led by their Holy Selves. Treating them as if they are "misunderstood" or "the wretched of the Earth flailing out in desperation" is bullshit. Time after time we see the major terror attacks on the West being led by Western College Educated, Well-off Muslims, not dirt poor illiterate camel washers.

bob2356 says

she never said she cared what ISIS would think.

Here is what she said:

"'He is becoming ISIS's best recruiter,' she claimed. 'They are going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.'

One interpretation is that she is telling a US presidential candidate to modify his behavior because of what ISIS will do, and what terrorist want-to-be's will do.

Blurtman says

but to worry about what ISIS will think about what a candidate for president in the USA says, is a sign of not only weakness, but preposterous incompetence

Are you really this stupid ?

It's not worrying about what Isis will think about what the candidate Trump thinks. What the fuck ?

Trump is proposing a dangerous policy. One that IF IMPLEMENTED (- NOT JUST IF TRUMP PROPOSES IT), would be dangerous and it would be great for Isis. AGAIN - IF IMPLEMENTED.

Remember back in the day when candidates said things, not just to be popular, but because it was a policy that they actually thought should be implemented ?

Hillary was responding to a policy idea, but making a mistake I guess in not knowing there are fools out there that can't interpret this.

Blurtman says

He is becoming ISIS's best recruiter,' she claimed. 'They are going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.'

One interpretation is that she is telling a US presidential candidate to modify his behavior because of what ISIS will do, and what terrorist want-to-be's will do.

Not just for that reason. If the policy made sense and wasn't also very likely to increase the number of Islamic extremists, it would be another story.

bob2356 says

You guys are playing right into the hands of the polticos who use every opportunity (poverty,drugs, tax evasion, terrorism, etc.) that comes along to further their agenda's and take good care of their oligarch masters (pretty much the same thing) which is definitely NOT in your best interest. I would think by now people would have learned from previous examples that the government declaring a war on anything means rich people get richer and average people get screwed and things actually get worse. No way any politico is going after the root cause of radical islamic terrorism.

True.

marcus says

www.youtube.com/embed/YCedWxlG90M

Once again Noam Chomsky demonstrates more intelligence than everyone in Washington combined minus E. Warren.

One of the gems in this video is how religions including Sunni indoctrinate children through schools. You see the same thing in America with various Christian and Jewish schools. And Republicans want them to get tax payer dollars through vouchers. Somehow I think they'd object to school vouchers being used in Islamic schools.

tr6 says

Attacking Trump is meaningless when the strategy she will pursue in the middle east will only result in more terrorism.

And this is based on what ? She is part of the establishment. But the best hope is that the establishment learns and improves. Not that some outsider is going to come in and do whatever they please without even having all of the relevant information.

As time goes on, the neocons lose credibility. It would be interesting to know exactly how the highest level people see these complex situations. They know the history, and they know the motives of all the players better than any of us ever will. And they know what the biggest mistakes are that we've made.

Blurtman says

Hillary suggests that we please ISIS.

To be fair, I think she was suggesting we NOT please Isis.

Details.

Blurtman says

"'He is becoming ISIS's best recruiter,' she claimed. 'They are going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.'

One interpretation is that she is telling a US presidential candidate to modify his behavior because of what ISIS will do, and what terrorist want-to-be's will do.

If Hillary was Trump, every lead story in every paper would be "Hillary Whopper: No Evidence of Claims ISIS uses Trump in Videos"

marcus says

would be dangerous and it would be great for Isis.

ISIS is likely using the Western bombing campaigns to recruit terrorist wanna be's. I suppose those should be suspended as well. We know they have appealed to terrorist wannabe's to attack Russia as retaliation for the Russian bombing campaigns. I suppose Putin should cease bombing, then. ISIS is using the crusader's backing of Israel to recruit terrorists. I guess the USA should stop backing Israel. According to George W, Al Qaeda hated us for our freedoms. I guess the USA should curtail its freedoms, then.

Like I said, low bandwidh sheeple prone to anger caused by limited processing capabilities, meme destruction remorse, and the troubling record of history. Other than that, a brilliant argument.

marcus says

Anyone who thinks declaring a war on all of Islam will decrease terrorism in the world, in the short run or the long run, is a total idiot in my opinion.

That's actually been done already. It was called the Crusades and it put a stop to the March of Islam across southern and Eastern Europe for nearly a millennium, until bleating liberals welcomed them back in.

marcus says

As time goes on, the neocons lose credibility

In what world? Neocons still define a large part of Obama's foreign policy.

Blurtman says

bob2356 says

she never said she cared what ISIS would think.

Here is what she said:

"'He is becoming ISIS's best recruiter,' she claimed. 'They are going to people showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.'

One interpretation is that she is telling a US presidential candidate to modify his behavior because of what ISIS will do, and what terrorist want-to-be's will do.

Huh? That's a pretty obscure interpretation.

Quigley says

marcus says

Anyone who thinks declaring a war on all of Islam will decrease terrorism in the world, in the short run or the long run, is a total idiot in my opinion.

That's actually been done already. It was called the Crusades and it put a stop to the March of Islam across southern and Eastern Europe for nearly a millennium, until bleating liberals welcomed them back in.

That's certainly a colorful history lesson. Other than the inconvenient fact that the 'March of Islam" was finished in the 900's over 100 years before the first crusade was organized and the really dismal fact that the crusaders got their asses kicked for 200 years before leaving with their tails between their legs. The only real noteworthy accomplishments of the crusaders was the wholesale massacre of jews along with the sack and destruction of christian Constantinople in 1204.

Blurtman says

ISIS is likely using the Western bombing campaigns to recruit terrorist wanna be's.

Of course. But that would be what ? Surgical strikes of Jihadists ? Or Syria ? Those are seen as us attacking the attackers.

But when we clearly imply that all of Islam is the enemy ? That brings new terrorists in. People that were on the fence before, or people that might have previously been ambivalent about the objectives of violent jihad. You know, potential terrorists right here in the U.S., the very ones that you dimbulbs (and Trump) are reacting to.

This isn't rocket science.

bob2356 says

Other than the inconvenient fact that the 'March of Islam" was finished in the 900's over 100 years before the first crusade was organized and the really dismal fact that the crusaders got their asses kicked for 200 years before leaving with their tails between their legs. The only real noteworthy accomplishments of the crusaders was the wholesale massacre of jews along with the sack and destruction of christian Constantinople in 1204.

Details.

bob2356 says

That's certainly a colorful history lesson. Other than the inconvenient fact that the 'March of Islam" was finished in the 900's over 100 years before the first crusade was organized and the really dismal fact that the crusaders got their asses kicked for 200 years before leaving with their tails between their legs. The only real noteworthy accomplishments of the crusaders was the wholesale massacre of jews along with the sack and destruction of christian Constantinople in 1204.

All of SE Europe, within spitting range of Vienna around 1700. Mass Bay, New York/Amsterdam, and Jamestown were already settled.

Almost the entirety of Modern India between 1525-1707:

yup

at least isis is honest that what they practice is historically accurate islam.

Unlike the 90% plus of Muslims that think ISIS are a bunch of overzealous assholes.

it's only a matter of degree, not principle. they all agree with the koran, it's only a matter of how literally.

marcus says

But when we clearly imply that all of Islam is the enemy ? That brings new terrorists in.

You believe simple things because they seem to make sense. The first step towards enlightenment is realizing how ignorant you are. Be daring. Take that first step.

Blurtman says

You believe simple things because they seem to make sense

Funny, i was thinking you can't comprehend complex things, because you're an idiot.

You, Patrick (maybe the same ?), TLIps and others, never, I mean NEVER have addressed the obvious reality that:

marcus says

when we clearly imply that all of Islam is the enemy ? that brings new terrorists in.

Blurtman says

Take that first step

Speaking of first steps, the transition from being a shining example of what a country should be, to full fledged evil fascist empire, doesn't happen in one fell swoop. It happens in little steps. We're on our way, and the current economic situation is very conducive.

The one way you know you're on the wrong track is when the foundation of your thinking is fear and hate.

it's only a matter of degree, not principle

Exactly

That Noam Chumsky video is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Blurtman says

But she does seem to appeal to the low bandwidth type sheeple.

Kind of resent/respect this. Are you suggesting that the Psheeple is highest in one political group(think)?