patrick.net

Heraclitusstudent says

American Students Know Almost Nothing About Their College Loans

What do they think they are? Mortgages?

They don't understand the concept of loans because they aren't taught the consequences in school. they aren't taught the consequences in school because liberals run the school systems don`t want people to understand economics since if people did, they would all vote Republican.

"..Know Almost Nothing.."
Perfect description of Democratic & Republican voters.

zzyzzx says

They don't understand the concept of loans because they aren't taught the consequences in school.

Are you saying 62% of students in this country are total idiots who do not understand the concept of loan?

Heraclitusstudent says

Are you saying 62% of students in this country are total idiots who do not understand the concept of loan?

Yes.

zzyzzx says

They don't understand the concept of loans because they aren't taught the consequences in school. they aren't taught the consequences in school because liberals run the school systems don`t want people to understand economics since if people did, they would all vote Republican.

Dude, it is the republicons that do not want the working man to be financially literate. Not Bernie Sanders. Not Elizabeth Warren. Not "liberals".

It is rather unbelievable what Republican doublespeak propaganda will make some people believe.

Heraclitusstudent says

Are you saying 62% of students in this country are total idiots who do not understand the concept of loan?

Only one of many, many, many concepts that they are totally clueless about.

Heraclitusstudent says

Are you saying 62% of students in this country are total idiots who do not understand the concept of loan?

Didn't you see that episode of EveryBody Hates Chris where they got a new credit card and Chris's mom thought it was free money that they didn't have to pay back, and wanted to go ahead and max out on it right away? Unfortunately, this is true in real life for a lot of people, since plenty of people really are that fucking stupid.

Ironman says

College students were asked simple questions about politics and history and their answers are a dramatic wake up call about the state of our education system

I went to the some of the shittiest schools (didn't have access to a single AP course in High School) in America and I can answer these things and I'm a late Gen-Xer. Even though most of the people I went to school with in New Mexico were morons, I still think they would get most of those questions right.

zzyzzx says

max out on it right away?

Sounds like almost half of Atlanta.

mmmarvel says

Heraclitusstudent says

Are you saying 62% of students in this country are total idiots who do not understand the concept of loan?

Only one of many, many, many concepts that they are totally clueless about.

I'll give an example, just an anecdote, but one I find telling nevertheless: My parents have an employee who once wanted their daughter to work. She was unable to work because her daughter doesn't know how to make change at the cash register. Nice person, but really stupid parenting for a kid who doesn't have a learning disability.

But it is a reflection of how bad the educational system is overall in Ocean County, NJ (Brick, in the particular case) which is predominantly working class with limited college education.

The texas tech example is full of students who a generation ago would have been doing a trade or something other than college. Those kids, simply put, are not college material

MMR says

My parents have an employee who once wanted their daughter to work. She was unable to work because her daughter doesn't know how to make change at the cash register.

Too stupid to read the amount of change off the register???

zzyzzx says

Heraclitusstudent says

Are you saying 62% of students in this country are total idiots who do not understand the concept of loan?

Yes.

Most of these people are likely smarter than you.

Anyway.... Next question: assuming they are idiots (therefore unable to make good choices for themselves), do you think it is ethical, or good for the country, to knowingly put these 62% of college students idiots into debt they don't understand, thereby making them debt serfs for life.

Heraclitusstudent says

assuming they are idiots (therefore unable to make good choices for themselves), do you think it is ethical, or good for the country, to knowingly put these 62% of college students idiots into debt they don't understand, thereby making them debt serfs for life.

Yes. You can't fix stupid.

zzyzzx says

Heraclitusstudent says

assuming they are idiots (therefore unable to make good choices for themselves), do you think it is ethical, or good for the country, to knowingly put these 62% of college students idiots into debt they don't understand, thereby making them debt serfs for life.

Yes. You can't fix stupid.

So by this logic con jobs should be legal, and stupid people should be made slaves by default.

Our daily dose of conservative cynicism.

Ironman says

Where were their parents when these idiots made the decision to sign the loan documents?

Why? parents are smarter?
No they aren't. People are herded into this extortion like it's normal and everyone is doing and "that's the way it works".
They are not stupid, they are careless.

Heraclitusstudent says

So by this logic con jobs should be legal, and stupid people should be made slaves by default.

I just said that in a free society, you can't keep people from making stupid decisions for themselves. It's no different from banning smoking or forcing people to eat healthy and exercise.

WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM?

zzyzzx says

I just said that in a free society, you can't keep people from making stupid decisions for themselves. It's no different from banning smoking or forcing people to eat healthy and exercise.

No, it's not a few people making a bad decision by themselves. If it was you wouldn't get 62% of them ignorant of basic facts.

A business deal is a deal in which 2 people knowing the conditions decide to do something. And yes there are bad deals made by stupid people.
However if 1 side is led into the deal while totally ignorant of basic facts about what's really involved, then by definition it's a con job.

So what you are saying is it is ok to run a con job that extorts a large % of students.

zzyzzx says

WHY DO YOU HATE FREEDOM?

Freedom of what? Raping? extorting? stealing?

Heraclitusstudent says

No, it's not a few people making a bad decision by themselves. If it was you wouldn't get 62% of them ignorant of basic facts.

A business deal is a deal in which 2 people knowing the conditions decide to do something. And yes there are bad deals made by stupid people.

However if 1 side is led into the deal while totally ignorant of basic facts about what's really involved, then by definition it's a con job.

That's what happens when you don't read the fine print. Again, you can't fix stupid. We would be better off as a country if we simply didn't allow loans for education. People need to work their way though college, like I did, TWICE! It can be done.

zzyzzx says

That's what happens when you don't read the fine print. Again, you can't fix stupid.

So again you are saying, it's all good a we should let this happen and 62% of students absolutely deserve to be raped financially.
Your normal cynical self.

And who cares about consequences for the country.

zzyzzx says

We would be better off as a country if we simply didn't allow loans for education.

You are contradicting yourself.

zzyzzx says

People need to work their way though college, like I did,

You couldn't do it today.

Ironman says

Do you really want us to believe that these 62% of idiots weren't given copies of the loan documents they signed

Do you want me to believe they were handed a paper which clearly state the amount of the loan and the rates?
If such basic information was made obvious, you wouldn't have the level of ignorance in question.

Heraclitusstudent says

Freedom of what? Raping? extorting? stealing?

In a free country people are free to make stupid decisions.
Here is a fine example:
http://www.propublica.org/article/loyal-obama-supporters-canceled-by-obamacare

Heraclitusstudent says

You couldn't do it today.

Yes I could!

It's pretty fucking stupid for you to say that I can't do something when I've already done it TWICE.

Ironman says

My kids did with very little debt (and I didn't pay for school either).

The goat herders university of your village doesn't count.

zzyzzx says

In a free country people are free to make stupid decisions.

So again: justifying any con job.
It's just normal. If you fall for it, then you're stupid. And if you're stupid then you fully deserve to be extorted.
That's your point. Got it.

zzyzzx says

Yes I could!

When?

Ironman says

when you're proven wrong

There are different types of university and, in the end, a special case is irrelevant.
Saying "people should do this" or that is irrelevant. They do what they do and the consequences are there.
If you think you can have a majority of students financially raped, and good for them, and it won't affect you, that's pretty naive as well.

Heraclitusstudent says

It's just normal. If you fall for it, then you're stupid. And if you're stupid then you fully deserve to be extorted.

That's your point. Got it.

Exactly! I expect adults to take responsibility for themselves. You think adults should be treated like children,

zzyzzx says

Exactly! I expect adults to take responsibility for themselves. You think adults should be treated like children,

If you think a majority of adults in this country are behaving like children, you would say you are a moron.
If you think adults can't be manipulated, you ARE a moron.
You're hiding behinds formulas like "personal responsibility" thereby completely masking the systemic nature of what is happening here.
You're simply condoning the fact that a majority of young adults are made debt slaves.

Theres a wholly American, capitalist solution to this. Let them purge the bad debt via chapter 7 bankruptcy

I had to ruin my credit straight out of university by transferring all that debt to credit cards and personal loans

Theres is nothing more anti-American than having school loans be exempt from bankruptcy

In the spirit of the super bowl, let's line a prop bet

Will the low bandwidth freedom hating idiots get their panties all in a bunch over me being a better Capitalist than them

Yes -2500
No + 1800

Heraclitusstudent says

Freedom of what? Raping? extorting? stealing?

Freedom to make your own choices and the live with the consequences.
Life's lessons have consequences, learn them early or learn them late, depends on you and how you live your life.

The consequences can be very painful and take a long time to live through or they can be quick, but damn it, you've got no one to blame but yourself.

If you're stupid, it sucks to be you, but YOU made the choice and YOU get to live with the consequences.

mmmarvel says

Freedom to make your own choices and the live with the consequences.

I'll say this again:
You're hiding behinds slogans like "personal responsibility" thereby completely masking the systemic nature of what is happening here.
You are defending a system where a majority of young adult are getting extorted, with negative consequences for all.

You want a country where people can con each other and the smartest ones rob the others. This is not very different from a country where the strongest ones are robbing the others.

errc says

Theres is nothing more anti-American than having school loans be exempt from bankruptcy

Students don't have many assets, so nothing to lose.
If they were not exempt from bankruptcy, students would just go bankrupt once done with studies.
In other words, these loans probably wouldn't exist.

Heraclitusstudent says

In other words, these loans probably wouldn't exist.

schools would be cheaper and the fluff for-profit university industry would be down the tubes. Hard to call that a total loss

Schools with endowments will continue to have endowments

Ironman says

Heraclitusstudent says

masking the systemic nature of what is happening here.

The only way things stay "masked" is if YOU choose to act like this:

-

That's you not accepting the fact that a large portion of the population of this country is being loaded like donkeys - with negative consequences for all.

MMR says

schools would be cheaper and the fluff for-profit university industry would be down the tubes. Hard to call that a total loss

Exactly.

Ironman says

This country is Sooooooooo Fucked!!!!

It's fucked with student loans and you fully agree with it.

Heraclitusstudent says

It's fucked with student loans

I really don't know why students who are unprepared for college are qualifying for student loans.

This 'free' federal money has spawned a cottage industry of low quality schools that fit the very definition of corporate welfare.

On one level, but another part of the problem is students who have no business going to college are going to college and it's nothing more than a 'tax on entering the workforce'.

Loans should be for students who can actually do college level work and contingent on maintaining a given GPA

others could do trades or something else other than college.

Cut the student loans and watch tuition reach reasonable levels. After that reorganization, "free" public schools could be made "free" by the basis of examinations in various tracks, not unlike France.

There is so much fat in the universities necessitating tuition increases that greatly outpace inflation. Simply making it 'free' is not an answer, without addressing the factors that caused the costs to become so unwieldy in the first place.