patrick.net

So, the article is saying 35% of Republicans are actually racist, sexist, bigots? Having lived in several rural areas--that sounds about right.

Heraclitusstudent says

It's funny when the establishment realizes how out of touch they have become with the population.

Though of course they are quick to dismiss this and continue with their program.

Right, they have to keep up with the Race thing, because otherwise they might have to deal with the Free Trade issue, which the backstablishment loves and the American people hate.

They cannot admit the real reason Trump is popular.

Who would have wver saw this coming?

Theyre racists!!

tatupu70 says

So, the article is saying 35% of Republicans are actually racist, sexist, bigots? Having lived in several rural areas--that sounds about right.

Yes plus a majority of people that are not racist but against mass immigration.
I guess the establishment was trying and is still trying to shame these people, though it's not really working.

Being against the "open door policy" of neoliberals doesn't make you racist. Not wanting to invite people from a religion that wants its adherents to kill infidels into your house doesn't make you racist either. Let's call things by their proper names.

Quigley says

Being against the "open door policy" of neoliberals doesn't make you racist. Not wanting to invite people from a religion that wants its adherents to kill infidels into your house doesn't make you racist either. Let's call things by their proper names.

How about hedging on whether or not you want the KKK's endorsement?

tatupu70 says

So, the article is saying 35% of Republicans are actually racist, sexist, bigots? Having lived in several rural areas--that sounds about right.

The other point here is this: are you saying we should write off 35% of the population because you don't like their opinion.
If so, I have to ask, do you actually believe in democracy?

tatupu70 says

So, the article is saying 35% of Republicans are actually racist, sexist, bigots?

I think more accurately, it is saying that 35% of the population is willing to look past his racist and sexist ways to get all of the protectionist policies installed. Trump represents both ideas. While there is a lot of crossover, not everyone who wants to turn back the clock on global free trade is a racist.

What's Hilary's plan to replace the $15/hr + benefits Carrier type jobs going to Mexico and China? Oh, and no Education please, we know that's a canard.

Of course it is when scores of Disney IT workers are let go and forced to train their half-price H1-B replacements after bringing in a big project ahead of schedule and under cost.

Unless the GOPe or Hillary has a solution, it's Trump.

Yes, Yesynot, that is the real issue. If they called Trump on the free trade issue and attacked him over wanting to end the largest decimation of the middle class since the industrial revolution, they'd be truthful. Instead they are using propaganda hot button terms like racist, sexist, and Islamophobe to attack his campaign and credibility. These are meaningless in the face of the ongoing extermination of America's middle class. And in the end they are only words, which only have the power we agree that they have. When 35% of Americans call bullshit and stop caring about these words, the ones left screaming red faced into the microphone about them begin to look foolish.
People are people, wherever you go. The only real difference between them is always ever cultural. Maybe liberals should start looking with a careful eye at the ones harping on and on about race issues. They are the ones drawing racial distinctions and making broad generalizations about people who share a skin color. That is, by definition, racist.

This thread seems to have treated two different data sets as if they were substitutes, when they are not.

tatupu70 says

35% of Republicans

support Donald Trump, giving him a plurality within that party.

Heraclitusstudent says

35% of the population

are in fact racist, sexist, and homophobic, and within the Republican party they add up to a majority, and they tend to prefer Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Michele Hucksterbee, whose combined votes outnumber Donald Trump's. Even The Donald had to kiss the ring of Pat Robertson, however, in order to have a chance among Republicans. It's very sad: we have only two major parties in America, and one of them is dominated by creationists who reject geology, evolution, astrophysics, basically science in general, evidence-based decisionmaking, the separation of church and state, and the enlightenment. They insist the universe and man were created in their present form less than 10,000 years ago, and that the rapture will occur very soon. They are legion, for they are many, and nobody can get the Republican nomination without becoming probably unacceptable to most Americans, which explains why Democrats have won the popular vote in 5 of the last 6 presidential elections.

Republicans' failure enables the Democrats to indulge countless patronage boondoggles and misguided policies. The discipline of competition fails when one of the two major parties takes its collective eye off the ball. We end up with Old Tyme Religion vs Islam and the Obamneycare Cult of Eternal Life through Infinite Spending. Evidence and reason go unrepresented, and the republic stumbles half-blind into debt and dysfunction.

I do wonder if an independent candidate might enter the race. They don't win, but they can tip the election. If Mike Bloomberg declares himself a candidate, for example, then he might have the same effect as Ross Perot: enabling the Clintons to win with only a plurality.

Trump's opening at the debate:

"I disavow the KKK, I love and respect women and I pay my taxes. Now you have more time for commercials."

— Bill Mitchell (@mitchellvii) March 2, 2016

Quigley says

Instead they are using propaganda hot button terms like racist, sexist, and Islamophobe to attack his campaign and credibility.

My point was that it's fine to call Trump a racist sexist islamaphobe, because he is one. That doesn't mean that all of his supporters fall under that category, though.

Here's an analogy on the Dem side. I'd be fine with Hillary being president. I'd even support her over everybody in the republican race. That doesn't mean that I support everything that she does. I just find the whole package more palatable than the alternative.

Now, if someone likes the fact that Trump is a racist (I've posted reasons elsewhere), then that makes them a racist too. If they think that the racist things that Trump says / does is just common sense, then they are a racist and don't even know it.

YesYNot says

Here's an analogy on the Dem side. I'd be fine with Hillary being president. I'd even support her over everybody in the republican race. That doesn't mean that I support everything that she does. I just find the whole package more palatable than the alternative.

What economic policies does Hillary endorse that are a break with failed policies? When are her "millions of high tech jobs to serve 1 Billion new customers" finally arriving? What is her solution to Disney laying off American Workers in favor of H1-Bs, despite stellar job performance?

I say it's more unifying to have whites and blacks working $15/hr + benefit jobs at the new American Carrier and Ford plants while dropping racial epithets at each other, than saying "We're all together" as people duke it out over P/T shitty $8/hr warehouse, big box store, and other McJobs.

Congress will be GOPe led. Hillary is a neoliberal with a proven track record of anti-worker policies from NAFTA to H1-Bs to Mass Immigration.

Seriously folks, is Burger King and Wally World offering $15+/hr because of a terrible shortage of Unskilled Laborers, are we facing 10% inflation because of spiralling labor costs? To listen to Rubio, Cruz, Hillary, we are apparently desperate for more workers. Facts on the ground, and the BLS do not back this up.

curious2 says

are in fact racist, sexist, and homophobic, and within the Republican party they add up to a majority, and they tend to prefer Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio or Michele Hucksterbee, whose combined votes outnumber Donald Trump's.

They do? Source?

Heraclitusstudent says

The other point here is this: are you saying we should write off 35% of the population because you don't like their opinion.

If so, I have to ask, do you actually believe in democracy?

I don't know. What would you say in 1860 when, what, 40% of the population wanted legalized slavery. Does democracy dictate I have to respect them?

No, because 40% isn't a majority.

But 2/3 against the TPP is a clear majority.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/survey-obamas-trade-proposal-tough-sell-most-americans-n372306

Why does Obama hate democracy? Why is he aligning with the GOPe against the clear preference of the majority of Americans?

You can't argue "Oh, well, he has to embrace a popular position or the Republicans will beat him." because this is not a popular position; it's about as clearly unpopular as you can be on any position.

tatupu70 says

I don't know. What would you say in 1860 when, what, 40% of the population wanted legalized slavery. Does democracy dictate I have to respect them?

Doing so might have avoided the bloodiest most destructive war the US has ever endured. Surely the process could have been handled more smoothly over a longer period of negotiations. We didn't have a civil war over civil rights in 1963, so maybe politicians learned a little something in a hundred years.

Are you seriously advocating we have another civil war?

thunderlips11 says

What economic policies does Hillary endorse that are a break with failed policies? When are her "millions of high tech jobs to serve 1 Billion new customers" finally arriving? What is her solution to Disney laying off American Workers in favor of H1-Bs, despite stellar job performance?

I say it's more unifying to have whites and blacks working $15/hr + benefit jobs at the new American Carrier and Ford plants while dropping racial epithets at each other, than saying "We're all together" as people duke it out over P/T shitty $8/hr warehouse, big box store, and other McJobs.

I agree and wish there was a credible candidate running that was right on trade. Well, actually there is on the Dem. side, but he's unlikely to survive the nomination fight. As much as I want someone to abandon the free trade scourge that has decimated US jobs, I'm not willing to vote for literally anyone who promises that policy change. Trump has too many other issues that outweigh some of his good policy ideas, IMO.

tatupu70 says

I agree and wish there was a credible candidate running that was right on trade. Well, actually there is on the Dem. side, but he's unlikely to survive the nomination fight. As much as I want someone to abandon the free trade scourge that has decimated US jobs, I'm not willing to vote for literally anyone who promises that policy change. Trump has too many other issues that outweigh some of his good policy ideas, IMO.

Tatupu, check above:

Why is Obama endorsing the deeply unpopular TPP where 2/3 of all Americans are opposed? As a supposedly pro-worker Democrat, he has an over-whelmingly clear general population mandate to oppose it.

Also, Hillary stumped for the TPP and other unfair trade treaties her entire career. ONLY did she say something like "We'll have to be sure it's a fair treaty" - plenty of wiggle room to pass it - last summer.

Quigley says

Doing so might have avoided the bloodiest most destructive war the US has ever endured. Surely the process could have been handled more smoothly over a longer period of negotiations. We didn't have a civil war over civil rights in 1963, so maybe politicians learned a little something in a hundred years.

Are you seriously advocating we have another civil war?

Of course not. I'm saying that it's OK to write off some opinions.

tatupu70 says

I'm not willing to vote for literally anyone who promises that policy change. Trump has too many other issues that outweigh some of his good policy ideas, IMO.

Agreed.

I wonder whether there were some Germans that helped Hitler come to power, who liked him because they thought he was going to be great for their economy, and therefore they were willing to tolerate his extreme antisemitism and his fantasies of global domination.

Heraclitusstudent says

We've been telling Trump supporters that he is a racist, a sexist, and a bigot, as reasons for why Trump should not and cannot be the next president of the United States

That's why his supporters like him! He's just like them!

So if I don't allow a transsexual black woman who used to be a man into my house to stay free and eat my food for free- am I racist, sexist, homophobe??

thunderlips11 says

Why is Obama endorsing the deeply unpopular TPP where 2/3 of all Americans are opposed? As a supposedly pro-worker Democrat, he has an over-whelmingly clear general population mandate to oppose it.

Also, Hillary stumped for the TPP and other unfair trade treaties her entire career. ONLY did she say something like "We'll have to be sure it's a fair treaty" - plenty of wiggle room to pass it - last summer.

I'd guess Obama believes it best to pass TPP despite his constituencies opposition. He's let down the Dem. base many times.

tatupu70 says

He's let down the Dem. base many times

Obama has always been a centrist. He ran to the right of Clinton. Only racist lumatics think he is a lefty / pinko commie.

Ironman says

Yet, you'll continue to support and vote for the Blue team... How's that Hope and Change working out for you?

The true Definition of Insanity...

lol--Obama hasn't been as liberal as hoped, but he is light years better than anything the Republican party could offer.

Ironman says

Yet, you'll continue to support and vote for the Blue team... How's that Hope and Change working out for you?

Hope and change worked out slightly better than compassionate christian. Obama didn't destabilize the entire mid east like the shrub managed to do. The only good thing to be said for Obama.

anonymous says

What % of Democrats does the this apply to ? Stupidism is alive and well in urban areas as well. You're in Chicago, spend a few evenings down on the South Side or better yet spend the weekend in Gary and see how well you are received (once you have been relieved of your car, wallet, phone, your wife/girlfriend etc.) and then report back. And don't those areas qualify as urban and vote primarily democrat ?

Republicans certainly don't have a monopoly on dumb, although many of them seem to wear their stupidity as a badge of honor.

Ironman says

bob2356 says

Obama didn't destabilize the entire mid east like the shrub managed to do. The only good thing to be said for Obama.

Yes, the middle east is so much better under Obama the last 4 years or so....

He didn't fix it, but he didn't break it in the first place either.

bob2356 says

Hope and change worked out slightly better than compassionate christian. Obama didn't destabilize the entire mid east like the shrub managed to do. The only good thing to be said for Obama.

I guess Libya doesn't belong to the mid East.

gsr says

bob2356 says

Hope and change worked out slightly better than compassionate christian. Obama didn't destabilize the entire mid east like the shrub managed to do. The only good thing to be said for Obama.

I guess Libya doesn't belong to the mid East.

No it doesn't, it belongs to north africa. Libya nor the entire arab spring would have never happened without the iraq war.

gsr says

I guess Libya doesn't belong to the mid East.

Or Syria.

Or Yemen.

thunderlips11 says

gsr says

I guess Libya doesn't belong to the mid East.

Or Syria.

Or Yemen.

I'm sorry but I just don't remember sending half a million troops into libya yeman, or syria to kill a secular leader while idiotically disbanding the only stabilizing force in the entire country and even better presenting a cause celebre to every radical islamic jihadist organization on the planet. Did I miss that on the news some how?

Heraclitusstudent says

We've been telling Trump supporters that he is a racist

Funny how the mainstream media powered by the establishment rallies against Trump. Today on NPR a piece about how a contested convention is almost certain because of Cruz's win in Wisconsin. Meanwhile Trump has increased his commanding lead in NY and if he sweeps all delegates (which he will if the polls are accurate) Wisconsin won't matter a iota.

Quigley says

If they called Trump on the free trade issue and attacked him over wanting to end the largest decimation of the middle class since the industrial revolution, they'd be truthful. Instead they are using propaganda hot button terms like racist, sexist, and Islamophobe to attack his campaign and credibility. These are meaningless in the face of the ongoing extermination of America's middle class.

He doesn't have an answer to the decimation of the middle class, but he knows how to get votes by somehow convincing people that he does. You know, because "he makes the best deals. Everyone agrees. "

Funny thing is, maybe Trump isn't a racist. He just plays one on TV.

I hear Quigley basically saying, he's totally willing to overlook the U.S. making a guy that definitely seems to be a racist buffoon President, because he believes that Trump has the solution to hard goods manufacturing moving to other countries for several decades now. You know, just because Trump says so.

Don't worry, it's not like Trump is a bullshitter or anything.