3
0

Why do cops shoot first in the US? Is it fear of a breakdown of social order?


 invite response                
2016 May 27, 7:32am   15,272 views  64 comments

by Blurtman   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

Scenes From Paris Protests (and an Update from Alison)

Especially note around the 4 minute mark where one guy uses a big piece of metal to puncture the window of a cop car then another guy throws in what appears to be a burning road flare or maybe a molotov cocktail. The cop calmly gets out and is confronted by another guy who tries to beat him with a big stick. The cop calmly fends off the blows and finally somebody pulls away the guy with the stick. Imagine this in the US. There would be so many dead civilians.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/05/scenes-from-paris.html

Need to keep the sheeple in their place?

Comments 1 - 40 of 64       Last »     Search these comments

1   Tenpoundbass   2016 May 27, 7:37am  

I see someone swatting at cops with a stick and he doesn't do anything I'll take that cops gun and shoot the perp for him.
Rather than wait another month or two for that animal to kill me in a car jacking.

3   Strategist   2016 May 27, 7:47am  

Blurtman says

Why do cops shoot first in the US? Is it fear of a breakdown of social order?

American criminals have guns. It's all a matter of who shoots first, and who dies first. Given a choice, I'd say let the criminal die first.

4   RWSGFY   2016 May 27, 7:48am  

Blurtman says

Especially note around the 4 minute mark where one guy uses a big piece of metal to puncture the window of a cop car then another guy throws in what appears to be a burning road flare or maybe a molotov cocktail. The cop calmly gets out and is confronted by another guy who tries to beat him with a big stick. The cop calmly fends off the blows and finally somebody pulls away the guy with the stick. Imagine this in the US. There would be so many dead civilians.

BS: similar scenes in Ferguson didn't end up with "so many dead civilians". In fact, somebody even opened fire on the cops there and still no "so many dead civilians".

5   indigenous   2016 May 27, 7:56am  

Strategist says

Given a choice, I'd say let the criminal die first.

And who decides what is a crime?

6   lostand confused   2016 May 27, 8:24am  

I am kind of torn. I love freedom and don't like the scenes where the cop shot the guy in the back . But then seeing the behavior of the BLM and the Mexican flag waving , American flag burning thugs and my own experiences attending the trump rallies-I wonder if the cops are burnt out dealing with these hooligans day in and day out.

7   FortWayne   2016 May 27, 8:25am  

indigenous says

And who decides what is a crime?

The winner of the shoot out.

8   Shaman   2016 May 27, 8:27am  

FortWayne says

The winner of the shoot out.

True. The dead rarely get to write the histories.

9   Dan8267   2016 May 27, 8:50am  

Blurtman says

The cop calmly gets out and is confronted by another guy who tries to beat him with a big stick. The cop calmly fends off the blows and finally somebody pulls away the guy with the stick. Imagine this in the US. There would be so many dead civilians.

The restraint was amazing. If only U.S. police were more like Paris police.

10   NDrLoR   2016 May 27, 8:53am  

We had endless rioting in this country between 1965 and 1970, inner cities destroyed, countless killed and maimed by urban terrorists like Diana Oughton and Bill Ayers, yet when the authorities finally fired back in 1970 and killed four rioters at Kent State, the bellyaching is still going on today. If the cops had started shooting in Watts in 1965 and set a precedent of maintaining public order, we might not have had other inner cities destroyed in the later 60's.

11   indigenous   2016 May 27, 8:56am  

All of yous should read this article. Full of statistical Facts. I learnt something by reading it.

The cops are getting a bad rap.

http://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-danger-of-the-black-lives-matter-movement/

12   Dan8267   2016 May 27, 10:10am  

FortWayne says

indigenous says

And who decides what is a crime?

The winner of the shoot out.

Sums up conservative philosophy perfectly.

13   Strategist   2016 May 27, 10:16am  

Ironman says

ndigenous says

The cops are getting a bad rap.

Of course they are.

Factor in that there are close to 1 MILLION law enforcement officers in the country. How often do questionable shoots come up?

It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback sitting behind your keyboard when you're not directly facing an unknown enemy and have to make a split second decision.

Not every split second decision will be the right one. Expecting the cops to be right every single time is rather silly. Even if a cop erroneously shoots a known criminal, that cop is a hero in my eyes for getting a thug off the streets.

14   indigenous   2016 May 27, 10:25am  

Strategist says

Not every split second decision will be the right one. Expecting the cops to be right every single time is rather silly. Even if a cop erroneously shoots a known criminal, that cop is a hero in my eyes for getting a thug off the streets.

That is not the point. I learnt something by reading the article..

15   indigenous   2016 May 27, 10:26am  

FortWayne says

The winner of the shoot out.

As much as I hate to agree with Dan, he is right on this.

16   turtledove   2016 May 27, 10:37am  

The French....

When I was in Paris back in 2005, I was shocked to see their airport security. They had army looking guys with giant guns everywhere. This was post-9/11, so we had already had the TSA here in the US. Our TSA was nothing compared to the Gestapo feeling you had at CDG airport. Then, when I was boarding the plane, they were pulling people out of line and searching them right then and there. Dan would have had a stroke.

My point is, you can pull a single incident and say, "the US is bad and other places are good," but a single example doesn't exactly typify a country's entire security strategy. I think most of you would have found Parisian airport security methods a tad over the top.

17   Rew   2016 May 27, 10:50am  

I think our police are more acutely afraid of losing their lives everyday, and we (government) have put them on an anti-terrorist combat footing. As soon as I saw MP5s strapped to the back of sheriff motorcycles in Silicon Valley, I knew a monumental shift had swept the nation.

Our police aren't used to handling that culture of protest. New Orleans seems to have it figured out though, for dealing with all the mardi gras crowd. Now that's not a protest, but that's mob/crowd management practiced to a good level.

Strategist says

a known criminal, that cop is a hero in my eyes for getting a thug off the streets.

Wow. Care to define criminal more or does just any criminal deserve to die? (I'm beginning to think there is something to this whole "Authoritarian" theory.)

18   Rew   2016 May 27, 11:05am  

turtledove says

When I was in Paris back in 2005, I was shocked to see their airport security. They had army looking guys with giant guns everywhere.

turtledove says

My point is, you can pull a single incident and say, "the US is bad and other places are good," but a single example doesn't exactly typify a country's entire security strategy. I think most of you would have found Parisian airport security methods a tad over the top.

Europe has always practiced strong show of force at Airports more than the US. I flew into something relatively small in Italy many years ago, don't even remember the airport, but it was defended by anti-air emplacements you could distinctly see on approach (height of Yugoslavia at the time, I think). We were greeted at the bottom of the ramp by a German Shepard drug sniff dog and two handlers with full auto combat rifles.

When I lived in the UK, I typically didn't see firearms around, but wow when I did, it was like something right out of a movie. Huge show of force and stuff I had only ever seen in the military before, on cops. Our police have steadily become armed in a similar fashion over the years. There is an AR-15 in just about every car I see these days, unless they have the shotgun. Uncommon to see, but on heightened alert times I've seen Nat Guard walking around our airports.

Africa, was a totally different story. I didn't see a single firearm inside or around the airport buildings. But the roads leading up to the airport, major defensive roadblocks (huge steel sharpened spikes to channel cars), and guys that seriously looked like they were right off the set of a Rambo movie (chain fed bullets draped over them, berets, sleeveless shirts, M60 emplacements, and god knows what other machine guns those where). They had an actual permitter and safety within, but probably also the highest consistent actual threat too. My hotel had some good security too.

19   NuttBoxer   2016 May 27, 11:08am  

Police abuse certainly isn't unique to the US, nor is it recent. To see it's genesis you need to look at what the War on Us did to the beat cop when he stopped talking to the neighborhood, and started focusing on arbitrary stats.

One line I do see repeated often by cops today is they shot because they felt threatened. This justification of their life over a citizens is used in cases where there was no threat, or they could have chosen to subdue the subject with minimal risk. The shift from protect and serve to bully and abuse has been going on for some time, but it has never been more pronounced than it is today.

20   Heraclitusstudent   2016 May 27, 11:20am  

turtledove says

My point is, you can pull a single incident and say, "the US is bad and other places are good," but a single example doesn't exactly typify a country's entire security strategy. I think most of you would have found Parisian airport security methods a tad over the top.

When I arrive in SF to go through custom there is a huge room with well organized counters and lines. They systematically record everyone, take addresses, pictures and prints for foreigners.

In CDG there is no room, the line goes in the middle of the corridor. There is 1 or 2 bored custom officers that vaguely look at your passport and wave to come in.

there is a strong show of visible force but less organized security apparatus behind it.

21   Heraclitusstudent   2016 May 27, 11:28am  

Blurtman says

around the 4 minute mark where one guy uses a big piece of metal to puncture the window of a cop car then another guy throws in what appears to be a burning road flare or maybe a molotov cocktail. The cop calmly gets out and is confronted by another guy who tries to beat him with a big stick.

The problem here is not that police is calm and in control. The problem is the police is not in control, people can attack police cars and burn them with total impunity.
In France, cars are burned on a regular basis with no consequences. There are areas where police doesn't go unless they are 40, stones are thrown at them. There are regular rampages where bands destroy everything on their path (burn cars and break windows), and police runs the other way.

This is not a desirable alternative. Especially not in the long term.

22   Tenpoundbass   2016 May 27, 12:34pm  

turtledove says

When I was in Paris back in 2005, I was shocked to see their airport security.

I was embarased for America when I came back from my first trip abroad post 9-11.

In Asia they have plenty of people in very visible locations throughout the airports. But not a single one of them in your way, but you can't help to see them.
And if you approach them they even greet you with a smile rather than placing their hands on their guns, or barking orders at you they have no real authority to make, other than the unwritten rule that says there is no rules with the TSA. Also every single person in the screening process were beneficial to the process and helped speed things along. None of them were there to provoke and taunt you, that the American airports give you.

IN Miami when I was leaving, and going through screening. A huge 7 foot tall Lurch looking idiot, must have been 285lbs at least. Was standing right in the middle of the Metal detector barking out orders, trying to intimidate everyone into submission to what lies ahead. That was just unecessary. If I were a terrorist, he would have been the first person that I shot, along with all of the other security idiots in that same general location.
This is all purley speculation and devils advocate here, what if I were a terrorist?
In Asia the armed gaurds are out of the way, and spread out. I would have been cut down before I could have shot the first person. In Miami I would have immediate access to every armed person in that vicinity at the time. If I were a crack shot I would have mowed down all three of them before they even knew what hit them. They are just fruit salad in the way, they provide no security what so ever.

In Asia and other airports abroad, the security out of the way are more military looking and have their automatic weapons in their hands. So they are all ready for anything.

The American mall cop airport security assholes, probably have smart guns and forgot to charge the battery last night. I didn't feel safe at all just anoyed very anoyed, I don't know if you can tell or not. LOL

23   Strategist   2016 May 27, 3:09pm  

Tenpoundbass says

I shot, along with all of the other security idiots in that same general location.

This is all purley speculation and devils advocate here, what if I were a terrorist?

If that happened the rest of us on Patnet would become terrorist supporters. No one likes the TSA guys.

24   NDrLoR   2016 May 27, 3:26pm  

turtledove says

When I was in Paris back in 2005, I was shocked to see their airport security.

I think Israel's El Al Airlines is comparably strict. Something must have been dialed back in Paris since 2005.

25   FortWayne   2016 May 27, 4:00pm  

indigenous says

As much as I hate to agree with Dan, he is right on this.

Dan is still wrong. Now that is just my opinion, but I think that boy drinks way too much left wing coolaid to understand anything.

26   Strategist   2016 May 27, 4:35pm  

Rew says

Strategist says

a known criminal, that cop is a hero in my eyes for getting a thug off the streets.

Wow. Care to define criminal more or does just any criminal deserve to die?

Someone like OJ who got away with murder. Rapists and child molesters. We can certainly do without them.

27   indigenous   2016 May 27, 6:28pm  

FortWayne says

Dan is still wrong. Now that is just my opinion, but I think that boy drinks way too much left wing coolaid to understand anything.

Not on this, government by definition uses force. That by definition is using coercion instead of reason, that is unacceptable

28   Strategist   2016 May 27, 6:48pm  

indigenous says

FortWayne says

Dan is still wrong. Now that is just my opinion, but I think that boy drinks way too much left wing coolaid to understand anything.

Not on this, government by definition uses force. That by definition is using coercion instead of reason, that is unacceptable

There are times when force is necessary. There are some people you cannot reason with.

29   indigenous   2016 May 27, 7:13pm  

Strategist says

There are times when force is necessary. There are some people you cannot reason with.

The original question I had was who decides what is a crime.At this time we have the government deciding what bathroom an individual uses, how much they are enslaved through taxes, how they can insure themselves for health, the minutiae of how they run there business, when they can defend themselves against the enemy, how they can travel, what their children will be taught, what drugs they will take both recreationaly and for health, what they will hear on the air waves through radio or television, not to mention the endless regulations regarding how you use your property, conduct your business, or conduct yourself, or go to war with.

What exactly are they supposed to be reasonable about?

30   Strategist   2016 May 27, 7:57pm  

indigenous says

Strategist says

There are times when force is necessary. There are some people you cannot reason with.

The original question I had was who decides what is a crime

In this context the question is......who is the threat? If you obey the cop, he is not a threat to your life. If your intent is to hurt the cop with a gun, you are the threat.

31   indigenous   2016 May 27, 8:25pm  

Strategist says

In this context

And look at the context and the trend of the past few decades...

32   HydroCabron   2016 May 27, 8:52pm  

Strategist says

Rapists and child molesters. We can certainly do without them.

I'm not sure that firt category even exists.

Hasn't rape been debunked?

33   bob2356   2016 May 28, 2:42am  

NuttBoxer says

One line I do see repeated often by cops today is they shot because they felt threatened. This justification of their life over a citizens is used in cases where there was no threat, or they could have chosen to subdue the subject with minimal risk. The shift from protect and serve to bully and abuse has been going on for some time, but it has never been more pronounced than it is today.

The problem is police forces are becoming more military. Police are supposed to be basically social workers dealing with drunks and dysfunctional families most of the time, not special ops teams. Swat teams, military trainers, military equipment, military tactics, etc. are the norm now. I worked in a really tough jersey shore summer resort in the late 60's and early 70's. I knew most of the cops and saw lots of arrests. The cops didn't pull out their guns first thing, they waded in, arrested people and sometimes clunked a few heads together. If you watch old versions of cops from the late 80's the police were a lot less aggressive and less likely to confront people with guns. Starting in the 90's the military style of policing really took off. It's a lot more exciting and fun to be rambo than sheriff taylor mayberry rfd. Now the first thing that happens in far too many situations is guns come out first before it is even clear what is going on. Many states require a swat team for all felony arrests. A lot of these arrests used to be handled with a cop walking up and knocking on the door. It's hard to justify the increased aggression levels. It was much more dangerous to be a cop in the 70's than today. Yet another disastrous legacy of the war on drugs.

34   Strategist   2016 May 28, 7:25am  

bob2356 says

The problem is police forces are becoming more military. Police are supposed to be basically social workers dealing with drunks and dysfunctional families most of the time, not special ops teams.

How else are the cops gonna deal with potential riots burning down large parts of a city? We had that happen in Ferguson and Los Angeles. Pussy cat cops are no match for hordes of rioters bent on destruction. A display of overwhelming force is the best deterrent we have.

35   indigenous   2016 May 28, 8:35am  

bob2356 says

It was much more dangerous to be a cop in the 70's than today.

Excellent opining.

There are some facts in the article, but you want what you said to be true so it must be true...

The cop do seem to be more militaristic but the facts in the article don't bear that out.

But in general with continuing growth in government there will be more unrest from inequality, e.g. the false economy caused by the huge increase in the Fed balance sheet.

36   bob2356   2016 May 28, 9:11am  

indigenous says

Excellent opining.

There are some facts in the article, but you want what you said to be true so it must be true...

Too lazy and/or stupid to type cop deaths per year into google? Here http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html.

The cop deaths per year today are almost half of the 1970's and there are a lot more cops today. Which means the rate of deaths, yes I know you can't understand rate, is much lower. You very are confused, I can always come up with hard numbers to support for what I say, you are the one who can never come up with anything to support what you say, except some fact free opinion piece from mises.org.

37   bob2356   2016 May 28, 9:13am  

Strategist says

A display of overwhelming force is the best deterrent we have.

Good idea, can we send them all to your town? A better idea would be to use the national guard, who have the military equipment and training already for dealing with riots, then use the police for police work. What a concept.

38   indigenous   2016 May 28, 9:27am  

bob2356 says

The cop deaths per year today are almost half of the 1970's and there are a lot more cops today. Which means the rate of deaths, yes I know you can't understand rate, is much lower. You very are confused, I can always come up with hard numbers to support for what I say, you are the one who can never come up with anything to support what you say, except some fact free opinion piece from mises.org.

Which is not my point, BTW your link is broken.

The point is read the article. In it they point out that the cops had a very workable policy in Compstat which was abandoned because of the back lives matter bullshit.

39   HydroCabron   2016 May 28, 9:31am  

Good thread.

I was wondering why this particular category of white men was not responsible for their actions.

40   indigenous   2016 May 28, 9:34am  

HydroCabron says

I was wondering

I doubt it

Comments 1 - 40 of 64       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   random   suggestions