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Teslas are unreliable rubbish.

By Tenpoundbass following x   2016 Jun 11, 3:44pm 5,069 views   105 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


http://www.vox.com/2016/6/9/11880450/tesla-doomed

Few companies have enjoyed more hype over the past few years than electric carmaker Tesla. And not without reason: Tesla is the most successful automaking startup in decades and has almost singlehandedly made electric cars cool. Yet the automaker has also been struggling with the quality of its vehicles.

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1   Strategist   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 11, 4:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says

Few companies have enjoyed more hype over the past few years than electric carmaker Tesla. And not without reason: Tesla is the most successful automaking startup in decades and has almost singlehandedly made electric cars cool. Yet the automaker has also been struggling with the quality of its vehicles.

You're so funny Captain. All auto manufacturers have problems. Tesla ranks way up in quality. Not having an engine, transmission etc results in less moving parts, and therefore less things to go wrong.

2   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2016 Jun 11, 4:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

The owners of the company I work for both have one. The brother just bought the SUV and the Sister had the SType since last year.
They drive it like every other other day, and have to leave it plugged in. Now that Bro drives his, they both can't drive on the same day. Becauce for now they only have one charging Doohickey.
It's Nerdy for Nerdy sakes.

3   Strategist   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 11, 4:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says

The owners of the company I work for both have one. The brother just bought the SUV and the Sister had the SType since last year.

They drive it like every other other day, and have to leave it plugged in. Now that Bro drives his, they both can't drive on the same day. Becauce for now they only have one charging Doohickey.

It's Nerdy for Nerdy sakes.

1. This is an anecdotal example.
2. The problem your bosses have is not related to quality.

If you test drive one, you will see what a magnificent car it is.

4   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2016 Jun 11, 4:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Oh you TEST drove one. I-I-S-eeeeee

Do you sell them or own Stock?

5   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (38)   2016 Jun 11, 5:04pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I like the part about the batteries bursting into flames.

That will get you attention at the drive through liquor mart!

6   Strategist   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 12, 6:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says

Oh you TEST drove one. I-I-S-eeeeee

Do you sell them or own Stock?

I'm bearish on the Tesla stock.
I did order the cheap Tesla.

7   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2016 Jun 12, 6:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

OK fair enough.

That new SUV looks like a kid drew the car on a klenex and Elon Musk found it when he was digging through the daycare trash. Because that's what ecentric gaziillionares do.

Seriously though, if those $30K Tesla's are acually $30K and not really $60K by time you buy all of the premium upgrades that makes the Tesla Car look like a Tesla car. And if it doesn't bankrupt him trying to fill orders for blinged out luxury electric car going for as much as fully loaded Mazda 6. I would like to see him pull it off.

8   Booger   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 12, 6:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

If you test drive one, you will see what a magnificent car it is.

For what it costs, it should.

9   Booger   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 12, 6:28pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says

Now that Bro drives his, they both can't drive on the same day. Becauce for now they only have one charging Doohickey.

Perhaps they should get another charger. They must be driving a lot. I would think that a car with that range could go a few days in between charges.

10   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (38)   2016 Jun 12, 6:40pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

America wants an electric car that does 0-120 MPH in 2 seconds flat and has mounts for optional Gatling guns or beer holders.

11   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2016 Jun 12, 7:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

When there is a reliable and reasonable cost electric car with charge mileage radius of 200 to 250 miles, and quick charge, a lot more people will be buying them. The Nissan Leaf is a cool car, but it's real world mileage radius is about 80 or so.

12   FortWayne   ignore (4)   2016 Jun 12, 11:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

You're so funny Captain. All auto manufacturers have problems. Tesla ranks way up in quality. Not having an engine, transmission etc results in less moving parts, and therefore less things to go wrong.

There are still moving parts. A lot of those electronic components are still mechanical, they are just not as large so it's harder to fix without a proper know how. Can't fix what you can't see. Those little *electronic* pieces that control electricity flow, they are all mechanical moving parts, and they do have a lifetime before they are worn out.

13   BayArea   ignore (1)   2016 Jun 13, 10:24am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says

Not having an engine, transmission etc results in less moving parts, and therefore less things to go wrong.

This reminds me of a comment one of my college roommates said one day while we were all sitting around having a beer in the living room:

"you know, being a garbage man isn't a bad gig. You make decent money and you only work once a week"

We all looked at each other around the room and realized he was serious. I gently say to him, "ummm, they work YOUR neighborhood once a week..." The light bulb went off in his head and he was terribly embarrassed. I still remind him of that comment to this day.

The connection above is that you aren't getting rid of an engine and a transmission for nothing. You are substituting replacement systems that have much less than 100yrs of R&D and lifetime testing in an automotive application, like the combustion engine does.

14   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 13, 10:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says

You are substituting replacement systems that have much less than 100yrs of R&D and lifetime testing like the combustion engine does.

NASA can spend 100 yrs designing a great pen to work in space. It will never be as reliable as a pencil in space.

Electric motors have more R&D than gasoline engines and are generally more reliable.

If you notice from the charts above. Nissan leafs have between 6 and 20 issues per 100 cars. Tesla has 70-90. Gasoline cars had 90 to 270.

The only issue with electric cars is range. If dimbulb's story is true, his bosses probably don't want to drive their e cars every day. Chargers are cheap, and very cheap relative to a car. Any 120 volt circuit can trickle charge a car over night. The more expensive chargers and bigger circuits are for quicker charging. In any case, it's a straight forward matter to add a 2nd charger.

15   BayArea   ignore (1)   2016 Jun 13, 10:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

That's all peachy, but I first want to see 10yrs+ of high volume real world automotive application use before I plop down $60-110K for one.

Electric motors are one thing, batteries are another. Do you know what it costs to replace a Tesla battery or a Prius battery?

The two are mostly unrelated but it gives some glimpse... when I get a new iphone and I think what that battery's capacity is the day I buy it compared to what it is 1yr later, it doesn't inspire confidence for an expensive 100% electric car.

16   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 13, 11:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says

motive application use before I plop down $60-110K for one.

You probably shouldn't plop down $60-110K for one. I would think that the only people paying that much should be people with tons of disposable income. In any case, people don't spend > $60K on a car for practical reasons.

As far as a leaf goes, or the newer cheaper Tesla, they seem like reasonable cars for anyone that has a moderate sized commute (far enough to save money on gas, but short enough to assure battery range). There's plenty of experience with them at this point. Nissan has been doing leases for most of the cars to shift the burden of trust and risk from the consumer back to the manufacturer.

17   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2016 Jun 13, 1:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Booger says

Perhaps they should get another charger. They must be driving a lot. I would think that a car with that range could go a few days in between charges.

The problem is in South Florida traffic you can spend 200 miles worth of travel time to drive 60 miles, when you live 30 milies in both directions.

18   Strategist   ignore (2)   2016 Jun 13, 4:28pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says

The connection above is that you aren't getting rid of an engine and a transmission for nothing. You are substituting replacement systems that have much less than 100yrs of R&D and lifetime testing in an automotive application, like the combustion engine does.

We are using motors instead of engines. We have lots of experience with motors.

19   HydroCabron   ignore (1)   2016 Jun 13, 4:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says

The problem is in South Florida traffic you can spend 200 miles worth of travel time to drive 60 miles, when you live 30 milies in both directions.

Well, I'll always remember where I was at the precise moment the English language, plus logic and reason, died.

20   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2019 Feb 7, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/electric-cars-really-hate-winter-110724255.html

Electric Cars Really Do Hate the Winter, Says AAA Study

“Batteries are like humans,” Anna Stefanopoulou, director of the University of Michigan’s Energy Institute told Wired: they do best at temperatures between 40°F and 115°F.

In results that are unlikely to shock the many frustrated EV owners who vented on social media during the polar vortex, Stefanopoulou’s claim is backed up by the results of a new AAA study, which says that electric car batteries lose as much as 41% of their potential driving range when the outside temperature is 20°F (and when the heater is turned on).

The AAA study used five sample cars, each from a different manufacturer, with a minimum 100-mile range and wide availability in the U.S. It compared performance at three temperatures: 20°F, 75°F, and 95°F, per the SAE International standard, used in the automotive industry.

At 20°F, the cars lost an average of 12% of their range, relative to the baseline temperature of 75°F, whereas they lost only 4% in the warmer 95°F scenario.

Firing up the heater or air conditioner took things to a whole new level: in the cold, with their heaters on, cars lost 41% of their range and in the heat, with the air conditioning on, they lost 17%.

As a result, electric cars cost more to operate in the cold than in moderate temperatures. AAA calculates that running the heater in the cold adds about 2.5 cents per mile in their test sample of electric cars.

Despite this, the average energy costs of an electric car are still less than half those of gasoline-powered cars, the association estimates — although the precise amount depends on local electricity and gasoline costs.

Drivers can also improve their electric car’s range by pre-heating or cooling the cabin while charging so that the climate control doesn’t drain the battery as much. Parking in a garage can help too.

“It’s something all automakers are going to have to deal with as they push for further EV deployment because it’s something that could surprise consumers,” AAA director of automotive engineering Greg Brandon told CNBC.

Engineers, meanwhile, are exploring alternative materials to power fuel cells that might be less affected by the cold.
21   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2019 Feb 7, 10:58am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

zzyzzx says
Firing up the heater or air conditioner took things to a whole new level: in the cold, with their heaters on, cars lost 41% of their range and in the heat, with the air conditioning on, they lost 17%.


This needs further explanation. I would think that an EV would use a heat pump, which would mean that the load difference for heating vs cooling wouldn't be so much. Now if the EV is using resistance heaters, yes that's going to suck the life out of your range in a hurry, unless you can warm up the car first while it's still plugged in before you start.
22   SunnyvaleCA   ignore (0)   2019 Feb 7, 10:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Booger says

Tenpoundbass says


Now that Bro drives his, they both can't drive on the same day. Becauce for now they only have one charging Doohickey.


Perhaps they should get another charger. They must be driving a lot. I would think that a car with that range could go a few days in between charges.


If your round-trip commute is "only" 150 miles (yikes!) then they could each charge every other day. These two people sure do seem to have a unique problem.
23   epitaph   ignore (0)   2019 Feb 7, 11:17am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I don't click through links from vox. You can get better editorials from bathroom walls.
24   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2019 Feb 7, 11:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ya'll keep betting on Tesla. Elon needs more pot money.
I called way back when, when I saw the robot automation production was being over hyped.
If something stinks then there is shit.
The Automotive industry has been so Automated for the last 30 years or more, there's hardly a human being that touches one single part in its construction.
Yet Elon felt compelled to over hype is Robotic Automated facility rather than focus on the quality and value of his product.

As I've been warning about the undo Robot and AI hype for several years now.

There is no coming AI or Robot revolution. This is the Shitlibs trying to sell the younger generations early on Socialism.
Beat their can do spirit and psyche down early before it develops. And get them used to the idea there wont be any opportunities for them in their Adult life.
Because AI and Robots will have taken the jobs all away from them. So here's some socialism to comfort you.

Now of course at the same time we all notice quite vividly that those same Robot Touters, are importing Cheap Labor from Mexico so the Duck and Warren Buffet can have greater profits, with cheap immigrant labor. Legal or otherwise. What we're not seeing, is those same people importing Japanese Robots, or even trying to scrape the Robot and AI top people from Japan, Russia, and China. We're importing Jose Sanchez. Not Boris Techmacher, and Xichuan Robosan.

Ya'll keep believing the Hype. I'm the most trusted name in News I'll never lie to Ya.
25   Onvacation   ignore (3)   2019 Feb 7, 11:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

BayArea says
like the combustion engine does.

I thought it was the battery that combusted?
26   Quigley   ignore (0)   2019 Feb 7, 11:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The advantage to the gasoline engine in the cold is that you heat the cab with waste heat instead of having to generate heat by running electrons across a resistor.
Also the longer the engine runs in the cold, the better it performs as it warms up. But there’s no such curve for an EV since very little waste heat is developed to keep the car warm.
I would think they’d be better in the heat because of not generating excess heat that must be radiated away or the engine will overheat, cook the seals, leak and then seize.

Given these facts, I think the best all-around vehicle would be a hybrid.
27   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2019 Feb 7, 11:52am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

In another 5 years your average Electric Car will cost well over $60K with subsidies.

Stop dreaming!
28   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2019 Feb 7, 12:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
There is no comming AI or Robot revolution. This is the Shitlibs trying to sell the younger generations early on Socialism.
Beat their can do spirit and psyche down early before it develops. And get them used to the idea there wont be any opportunities for them in their Adult life.
Because AI and Robots will have taken the jobs all away from them. So here's some socialism to comfort you.


Don't worry, the socialist countries with $30 minimum wage union jobs are highly incentivized to automate. Of course we will be slower to do this and be un-competitive in manufacturing anything, and you will be happy when America walls itself from world trade completely to keep the old economy going.
29   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2019 Feb 7, 12:10pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

People like you champion Socialism because you get the big house, the case of 30 year Scotch, the Cases of Caviar, and the luxuries from abroad while everyone else eats pets and Zoo animals. OF course the people that got on board early end up one of two ways.

Dead in a lime pit along with their whole family. As they can't be trusted they were instrumental in Overthrowing a viable government. If allowed to stay alive it would only be a matter of time before they grew disillusioned with the Revolution and would want to overthrow the fat cats living high on the hog at the top.

Or they become one of the Fat cats at the top that keeps the Thumbs Down list of people to hoist out of their house at night and put a bullet in their heads.

Which one are going for? It's a tough choice with a blurry line so chose wisely. Often the Gustapos end up in the Limepits as well, when the Dictator has had enough of their incompetence.

You better go with Trump if you want to Live.
30   clambo   ignore (4)   2019 Feb 7, 1:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yeah, Tesla pretty much sucks. The SUV type one with the gull wings is really ugly.

Chevy Volt is pretty good; if my present car seemed likely to die I would consider a Volt.
31   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (38)   2019 Feb 7, 1:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Used cars in the northern states when advertised would make a point of accentuating the efficiency of the car's heating system. In a place like Detroit 'good heater' would a must to be taken seriously by potential serious buyers. A car that fails because people use the heater is just an insult.
32   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2019 Feb 7, 2:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
People like you champion Socialism because you get the big house, the case of 30 year Scotch, the Cases of Caviar, and the luxuries from abroad while everyone else eats pets and Zoo animals. OF course the people that got on board early end up one of two ways.


Fun game, let's act like social policy from capitalist countries like Canada, Japan, UK, etc., turns you into Venezuala.
33   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Feb 7, 3:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
There is no coming AI or Robot revolution. This is the Shitlibs trying to sell the younger generations early on Socialism.


The so-called AI revolution will affect white collar jobs, much more than blue collar ones during that next 20 years.

In effect, ppl like auditors and actuaries will see 80% of their work, done by computers, along with paralegals and lawyers who only do case research. In itself, a white collar work depression will cause more societal havoc than a blue collar one because ppl believe that their college degrees confer some cultural value when it doesn't.
34   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2019 Feb 7, 3:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

AI is great at finding rotten grapes out of a million grapes on a conveyor belt in a split second and kicking them out. That same skill is also great at matching up facial features in an ID picture to a million people walking through an Airport terminal or busy City Street.

It can not process why Report numbers are off based on the instructions the Manager or Boss gave them.
It will not go back and look up the old price list to compare to the new price list update to realize the wrong numbers were fed in. Unless an analyst or someone instructed it to do so But that just makes one of them redundant, never fire the smart one. The one that figured it out and came up with the solution. In that case the human instructed AI to dig deeper than the data provided

AI is NOT machine learning to the degree they would have you believe. The Tesla robots still can't figure out why sometimes parts line perfectly and other times it has to beat them so bad they are damaged beyond repair. A human can slide his pinky under the part and finesse the bolt into place so the holes line up, or realize something has to be bent or tweaked in specific direction.

AI will be set up and programed to something one way and one way only.
35   ThreeBays   ignore (0)   2019 Feb 7, 4:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
AI is NOT machine learning to the degree they would have you believe. The Tesla robots still can't figure out why sometimes parts line perfectly and other times it has to beat them so bad they are damaged beyond repair. A human can slide his pinky under the part and finesse the bolt into place so the holes line up, or realize something has to be bent or tweaked in specific direction.


There's little AI used in this kind of robot automation.

I wouldn't bet against AI progress with the kind of self taught general intelligence coming out of DeepMind.
36   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2019 Feb 7, 5:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

It's good for telemetry and spacial recognition for quality control and when precision is required.
The complex stuff that takes a talented individual to do, a 1 in a million person with those skills. And the AI is better at it.
It's good for security recognizing and eliminating threats. The kind of stuff any well trained human staff can do. Better but probably not more reliable. As humans don't have sensors and lenses to clog up and don't have electronic parts that can go on the fritz and software malfunctions.

It's not good for the most basic stuff the least intelligent Human is capable of. The type of skills where each individual leaves its mark. It's not going to come up with new ideas to make its job easier. It's not going to adapt to environmental job changes. "Oh Shit it's raining, help me bring the signs inside!" "Oh crap the bathroom is overflowing, pick the humidity sensitive equipment off of the floor and call the plumber and get someone to shut off the water main.
The type of sophistication in that kind of cognitive AI would be out of most businesses reach. Those that can use AI automation to cut down on repetitive procedures will do so. But we wont ever see in our lifetime or in three lifetimes where Rosie the Robot takes over everyone's Job. Even George Jetson had a job to go to. Rosie was the Maid.
Spacely Sprockets depended on good old fashioned human brains.
37   Tenpoundbass   ignore (14)   2019 Feb 7, 5:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I think Stone Age Man could eventually defeat any AI land roaming robot currently in production or development.
As long as the Man had the numbers advantage.
38   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Feb 7, 5:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

ThreeBays says
I wouldn't bet against AI progress with the kind of self taught general intelligence coming out of DeepMind.


You don't need general AI, to eliminate a vast majority of white collar jobs. Most ppl are stupid and do stupid stuff, all day long.

Walk into a place like Bank of America, Fidelity, or Metlife and ask yourself why is there so much headcount at those places? Many ppl are dealing with stupid fact checks, verification, and producing countless spreadsheets more or less, saying the same thing.

When I grew my firm, we automated so much, that we used all of our savings to hire the very best prop trader out there, which made the firm millions. By keeping headcount in check, we had the most productive workforce and as a result, grew w/o wastage and general corporate stupidity. Now, in the future, as more and more AI tools come online, watch those companies: BofA, Fidelity, and Metlife and see how far their payrolls drop over time.
39   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Feb 7, 5:28pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
"Oh Shit it's raining, help me bring the signs inside!" "Oh crap the bathroom is overflowing, pick the humidity sensitive equipment off of the floor and call the plumber and get someone to shut off the water main.


General security, which is what you're describing is already automated (with access cards/electronic doors, location sensors, cameras, etc) and has managed to lower costs so much, that an average security guard earns only $15/hour. And in the future, the great addition will be cameras which can pre-identify threats, even before they occur but in general, that won't affect the careers of security guards. I can't say the same for some joker working at Fidelity.

Tenpoundbass says
Unless an analyst or someone instructed it to do so But that just makes one of them redundant, never fire the smart one.


Yes, one worker where there used to be a team of ten.
40   Rin   ignore (4)   2019 Feb 7, 5:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Tenpoundbass says
Yet the automaker has also been struggling with the quality of its vehicles.


I own an Accord and have never had a problem. In fact, I don't even recall a major repair of any sort, just regularly scheduled maintenance for tires, fluids, belts, and brakes.

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