patrick.net

Sometimes people say what they think without calculating the best way to do maximum good (change others in one direction or another). In fact, most people hate Hillary, because she is always calculating how to change people too much. So, you shouldn't bother wondering why people make judgemental proclamations with no strategy to promote change at the individual level.

I say at the individual level, because it is an important distinction. I'll use your example about fat people to illustrate the point. If you call a fat person fat, you will not make them change. You will just make them hate you. If you discuss the health effects of being fat openly in society and change the conversation, you might get fat people to change on their own based on the new information set they now have.

With race and gender and privilege, the conversation has changed. The majority of people used to not even think about privilege. Now, it is accepted by the more educated class and will likely reach critical mass if it has not already. That's why there is a strong emotional push-back from the other side. They are becoming the outcasts.

At some point, the so-called social justice warriors will have gone too far. Clearly some already think that has happened (rise of Trump). But, the trend so far has been more and more acceptance of this world view.

THis rings true for you ?

OH yeah, you're one of those people that says the Trump phenomenon was entirely about reacting to political correctness and identity politics, and nothing at all to do with actual racism, xenophobia, fear and hate.

IF you can't relate to my point of view, it must be that I'm bragging about my education level ? Because it can't be true if I'm not going to be able to change racists minds ?

Most people hate hillary because she lies extensively and trys her hardest to cover up and hide it.
Trump, OTOH, lies extensively but doesn't try to hide it. He just ignores it and moves on.
So we basically voted on the type of liar we cherish...

YesYNot says

In fact, most people hate Hillary, because she is always calculating how to change people too much.

Ranina ranina says

Trump, OTOH, lies extensively but doesn't try to hide it. He just ignores it and moves on.

So we basically voted on the type of liar we cherish...

Agreed to some extent. But Hillary's lies were tied to her paranoia about what she thought could get her in trouble with the vast right wing that was after her. The truth is that in many areas of discussion she seemed to have a wonkish interest in the truth. Where as with Trump, if he's talking about Syria, or Iraq, or, Russia, or our economy, or what's wrong with this country, it is about his feelz and basically making up lies that would go over well with his fans. Truth takes a back seat almost everywhere with him.

So it's not just the type of liar we cherish. Approval of Trump shows an astonishing acceptance of lies that is unprecedented. Trump is a liar's liar.

Any perceived equivalency in the quantity of lies between Trump and HIllary only clarifies how bad it has gotten.

Reasoning skills are a factor too, becasue there are too many out there who are unaware Trump's level of dishonesty, or who think truth is unknowable and that truth is simply a word for what resonates best with you.

Ranina ranina says

So we basically voted on the type of liar we cherish

Hillary's lies were close enough to the truth that people felt she was pulling a fast one over on them. Trump's lies were so over the top, that people believed there was some truth to them.

The result of tens of decades of being lied to...
We have been conditioned to expect the lie, and extract for ourselves whatever bits of truth are embedded.
We are more bothered by the act of covering it up, rather than the lie itself...
The coverup conveys to the listener that they are too stupid to recognize the lie, or are gullible enough to buy the coverup.
Either way the listener is being talken down to, which is not a good thing if you are trying to win their votes.

marcus says

Approval of Trump shows an astonishing acceptance of lies that is unprecedented.

I just punch them in the face.

Oh how the mighty Pen has fallen!

Patrick says

you have to believe in the importance of equality of all people, and you need to use language that broadcasts this belief to the world.

When I heard parts of O's talk today, he mentioned Politics about 30 times. Politics should be about getting elected. Then Presidents should be adults and use Principles (Virtue) to govern all the citizens. His focus on Politics (Rhetoric, Perception, Deceptioneering, Alinskyisms) caused a great divide, hurt the economy, increased drug use, and put the economy on coast working only on the uber-low interest rates.

No matter a janitor or a president, I pray that the US get back to principled behavior.

Entitlemented says

His focus on Politics (Rhetoric, Perception, Deceptioneering, Alinskyisms)

In other words, he's black and he's smarter than I am.

I have to assume that's what you mean, unless you can give us the slightest hint of what the fuck you're talking about.

marcus says

Approval of Trump shows an astonishing acceptance of lies that is unprecedented.

We keep voting for the same lying politicians again and again don't we? They are all liars.

The OP article has everything you could wish for in a liberal rant: discursive, irrational, meandering, self indulgent, foolishly idealistic and self righteous. However, most liberal masterpieces attempt to coin at least one or two completely novel and absurd disenfranchised groups to guilt trip about along with the rest of the crap.