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Prediction: Debt will rise faster under Trump than Obama

By anotheraccount following x   2016 Dec 20, 8:09am 2,381 views   16 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


That's what happens under all supply siders. They cut taxes now and expect trickle down to happen sometime later. There is certainly some trickle down. It's just much smaller than the original tax cut.

Kansas?

1   jazz_music   ignore (2)   2016 Dec 20, 8:42am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Oops, the trickle down flooded into offshore vaults.

How did that happen? Better try it again. --saint Reagan with the tax-funded monument to privatization

GTBTP Trump!

2   indigenous   ignore (0)   2016 Dec 20, 9:00am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

That has little to do with the POTUS, it's the entitlements.

3   Call It Crazy   ignore (3)   2016 Dec 20, 9:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

Expensive to designate economic winners in this society where lobbyist money equals speech and when you demonstrate free speech that actually *is* free speech you get arrested and lose your rights to vote.

... American families pay, on average, $6000 per year in corporate welfare

Decades of cutting taxes and cut again as the trickle down gleefully floods offshore, whocouldanode?

... also add in “$1,231 for Revenue Losses from Corporate Tax Havens” because “the average 2012 taxpayer paid an extra $1,026 in taxes to make up for the revenue lost from offshore tax havens by corporations and wealthy individuals”.

We'll have to get around to fixing that someday when democrats get back into power.
http://thefederalist.com/2013/09/30/calculating-the-real-cost-of-corporate-welfare/

4   Tenpoundbass   ignore (11)   2016 Dec 20, 11:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Let's freaking hope so! I would like to see Small Business debt quintupled, and debt the banks hold of depositors money increase 400% fold.

Bring on the debt, it's better than handouts.

5   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2016 Dec 20, 11:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Great thing about capitalism is that there has never been a loss due to debt.
Not even one foreclosure.

6   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

tr6 says

Prediction: Debt will rise faster under Trump than Obama

Faster doesn't mean anything. A growth rate of 9% a year has been the average in the past 35yrs, i.e. doubling every 8 yrs.
Bush has gone roughly from $5 Trillions to $10 Trillions.
Obama from $10 Trillions to $20 Trillions.

Trump will likely go from $20 to $40 Trillions (assuming 2 mandates). But it's still the exact same growth rate.

7   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"But it's still the exact same growth rate."

That's why you need to look at the growth rate of the deficit to properly attribute blame for the debt.

8   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says

That's why you need to look at the growth rate of the deficit to properly attribute blame for the debt.

The deficit changes depending on the business cycle. So it is particularly irrelevant that it increases in recessions and decreases outside of recessions.
What matters is the average over longer periods of time.

When you offshore all your production and therefore decrease your income, end-demand decreases, and the monetary priesthood then sees fit to lower rates (or Quantitative ease the hell out of the country) to create more debt. The increase debt is necessary to replace income and maintain the status quo. It eventually makes its way to the public balance sheet. This is what we are seeing. All this is the logical consequence of the globalization policies that we had for 35 years. (including Bush and Obama).

The only thing that will end the debt ramp is either the end of globalization as we know it, or the enrichment of every other country in the world (which I doubt will ever happen).

9   anotheraccount   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Heraclitusstudent says

But it's still the exact same growth rate

What do you think the GDP will be in 8 years. and Debt/GDP ration?

10   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"The deficit changes depending on the business cycle. So it is particularly irrelevant that it increases in recessions and decreases outside of recessions."

Fair enough---but it's easy to ignore recessions if you wish.

"When you offshore all your production and therefore decrease your income, end-demand decreases, and the monetary priesthood then sees fit to lower rates (or Quantitative ease the hell out of the country) to create more debt. The increase debt is necessary to replace income and maintain the status quo. It eventually makes its way to the public balance sheet. This is what we are seeing. All this is the logical consequence of the globalization policies that we had for 35 years. (including Bush and Obama)."

I agree that globalization hurt the US workers. But it helped the US owners. As the continued trend toward automation will as well.

The US isn't poor--it's just that the wealth is divided so unequally now vs. 40 years ago.

11   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

tr6 says

What do you think the GDP will be in 8 years. and Debt/GDP ration?

I have no idea what budget, fiscal policy and trade policy will go through that government.
If they try to just deficit spend their way to more growth, with no trade/immigration modifier, the deficit and Debt/GDP ratio will increase sharply. We will enjoy more growth in the short term at the expense of the future.
If Trump interferes with trade/immigration we may have lower growth and eventually more inflation. Nominal growth (inflation) will then help reduce the Debt/GDP ratio, at the price of lower real growth.

12   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says

The US isn't poor--it's just that the wealth is divided so unequally now vs. 40 years ago.

It's divided unequally because of policies of which the Democrats have been 100% complicit. This is the disconnect.
When no one represents the interests of 60% of Americans in Washington, and they start getting pissed, you get a Trump.

13   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 12:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"It's divided unequally because of policies of which the Democrats have been 100% complicit. This is the disconnect.
When no one represents the interests of 60% of Americans in Washington, and they start getting pissed, you get a Trump."

I disagree, but it's no use arguing about it anymore. 50% of Congressional Dems opposed NAFTA. Dems opposed the Bush tax cuts.

Not all Dems, but if you look at any piece of legislation that sucks--I almost guarantee that more Dems opposed it than did Reps.

14   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 1:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says

Not all Dems, but if you look at any piece of legislation that sucks--I almost guarantee that more Dems opposed it than did Reps.

Yeah I would say on average democrats are better. They still betrayed a majority of Americans though.
Taxing people who profit of the situation is not a panacea. How about not having trade and immigration policies that hurt Americans to start with?

15   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2016 Dec 20, 1:16pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

What tax cut? Any income tax cut will be offset by import duties, so you will only be effectively paying less if you buy American.

16   GrabUbythePussy   ignore (0)   2016 Dec 20, 1:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Tenpoundbass says

Bring on the debt, it's better than handouts.

Why not sequester the entire government until they come up with a plan to reduce spending?





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