patrick.net

If Trump can simply get a law passed requiring health care providers to present all prices in advance of treatment, that would be an improvement over what we have now.

It would become possible to shop for treatment, and that would put downward pressure on prices.

Except does that makes sense, relative to the current system ? Most people, if they have insurance, either have an HMO or some sort PPO network. Either way, you end up with a doctor or doctors to which you are assigned, or from which you can choose, in your network, and this is sort of necessary. IF you need a specialist for some health issue, then your choices are limited, and if they weren't, it would be a problem, because:

1) Doctors' practices can quickly become full if they have a good reputation. And everyone wants people with a good reputation for whatever the specific health problem is.

2) Say you have a torn ligament or you need a medication for a specific type of problem. There are often options and you want a consultation with someone thats going to recommend the best course of action and monitor your progress. You don't want to shop price !!

IT's more complicated, and I'm oversimplifying but I don't think posting prices for the consumer is really much of a solution. In order to be in a given network where practitioners are going to take certain health insurance, doctors already either are agreeing to certain prices, or at least to what will be covered by insurance and deductibles as it is.

But they have a power to raise prices together.

This is why so called single payer would be so great. There would be standardized pricing, and doctors that wanted to charge more would either get that with out of pocket charges - which could be competitively posted for people with the best reputations, and they could be covered through various types of supplemental plans, much like medicare works now.

Since the critical and most costly (near) end of life health care is already dealt with this way, wouldn't it be easy to expand this to a medicare for all type of program ?

marcus says

There would be standardized pricing,

OK, I'd be for that too.

Donald Trump knows what you Clowns wouldn't admit in 2008.

The US tax payers have payed for virtually every last bit of medical advances in the last 40 years.
We already own it, it's just a matter of Trump finding the cheapest bidder to make it.

Tenpoundbass says

it's just a matter of Trump finding the cheapest bidder to make it.

AS usual, you make zero sense, but your blind allegiance to the least informed President ever is impressive. If he can help us shift toward medicare for all, or something like it, I would be impressed, not to mention shocked.

I do think he's smart enough to understand that a solution along those lines is what's needed. But I don't see how he turns on all of the republicans to that degree. Paul Ryan would like to end medicare before the boomers come through, to make way for lower taxes, the only dogma that really matters to republicans.

marcus says

I do think he's smart enough to understand that a solution along those lines is what's needed.

Then I don't think you're Qualified enough in the intellectual department to make that assessment.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

This has not always been that way.

I know. Some republicans in Kennedy's time were conservatively opposed to the risks of tax cuts, and that was at a time when taxes really were too high, fearing deficits.

Seems almost funny now. Conservative means something entirely different than it did back then.

Tenpoundbass says

marcus says

I do think he's smart enough to understand that a solution along those lines is what's needed.

Then I don't think you're Qualified enough in the intellectual department to make that assessment.

Have you considered reading glasses ? Usually around the early 40s or so is when some weak dimestore reading glasses become a good idea.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

JFK was a supply sider piece of shit like Reagan.

No. There is such a thing as taxes being too high.

Supply siders think that when taxes go rates go to zero, government revenues go to infinity. Well they don't actually think that, it's just the idea they sell.

What they actually think is, starve the beast. Run up deficits when republicans are in power and then fight spending when democrats come back in to power. They're so afraid of socialism that they are willing to bankrupt the country so that we'll never be able to afford anything resembling European socialism. Besides, it's a justification for further enriching the wealthy.

It is time to institute a single payer healthcare system in the United States. Of the $3 trillion spent on healthcare in in the United States approximately 2 trillion are paid for through Medicaid or Medicare. About 600 billion are paid in insurance payments. Since the government is already paying about two thirds of the cost of healthcare, it is time to simplify payment for healthcare and raise taxes slightly to allow for the government to pay for healthcare for every citizen. If managed properly, this would avoid a lot of stress for individuals, employers, unemployed, at eve tera. We pay for the populations healthcare one way or another. Let's streamline the system and provide excellent healthcare for everyone in the US, and spread the cost out evenly amongst all those who pay taxes.

marcus says

And if the Affordable Care Act is killed

They will not kill the ACA; at best, they will optimize it and at worst, they will leave it as it is

Already he is backtracking; he will keep the provisions for preexisting conditions and covering children into their mid 20s

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/business/insurers-unprepared-for-obamacare-repeal.html

Then the solution is to up root the corruption and fraud in the system. Very severe penalties for these crimes need to be enacted. If the AMA is that corrupt then it needs to be disbanded. If we can not eliminate corruption and fraud in the United States, then there will be no positive outcomes for any social and political policies and structures. Giving in to cynicism is not going to solve any problems. Problems can be solved, flawed institutions can be replaced , Criminality can be so severely punished that it no longer affects our society. The majority of people are honest and good intentioned, we cannot give it to comment by the minority of criminal and dishonest people.

It is time to institute a single payer healthcare system in the United States. Of the $3 trillion spent on healthcare in in the United States approximately 2 trillion are paid for through Medicaid or Medicare. About 600 billion are paid in insurance payments. Since the government is already paying about two thirds of the cost of healthcare, it is time to simplify payment for healthcare and raise taxes slightly to allow for the government to pay for healthcare for every citizen. If managed properly, this would avoid a lot of stress for individuals, employers, unemployed, at eve tera. We pay for the populations healthcare one way or another. Let's streamline the system and provide excellent healthcare for everyone in the US, and spread the cost out evenly amongst all those who pay taxes.

fraser says

Then the solution is to up root the corruption and fraud in the system.

To do that, we need to have publicly funded campaigns. What we have now is systematic bribery of congressmen via "campaign contributions". Here are the top bribers of congress in 2016:

US Chamber of Commerce $79,205,000
National Assn of Realtors $45,255,769
Blue Cross/Blue Shield $19,058,109
American Hospital Assn $15,454,734
American Medical Assn $15,290,000
Pharmaceutical Research & Manufacturers of America $14,717,500
Boeing Co $12,870,000
AT&T Inc $12,660,000
National Assn of Broadcasters $12,118,000
Google $11,850,000

from http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s&showYear=2016

You can bet each one of them is getting 100x return on their bribes, at your expense. Note the AMA in there.

Trump promised to push for congressional term limits. That would help cut down on the corruption too.

marcus says

Usually around the early 40s or so is when some weak dimestore reading glasses become a good idea.

Weak my ASS! I'm already at 250

"To do that, we need to have publicly funded campaigns. What we have now is systematic bribery of congressmen via "campaign contributions". Here are the top bribers of congress in 2016"

Don't vote for Republicans then. They block campaign finance reform every time.

I agree. How can we have a legal system in the United States that fairly represents the population, when the legislators are funded by organizations representing small segments of the population that have the ability to influence them with financial contributions? This is the basis for the corruption of our democracy . This is the appeal of Trump. The possibility of a president making decisions on the basis of what is best for the citizens, who isnt dependent on campaign contributions. And strong enough to do stand up to the resistance.

fraser says

a president making decisions on the basis of what is best for the citizens, who isnt dependent on campaign contributions

That's definitely part of the appeal of Trump. He's at least perceived to be immune from petty bribery because he's rich.

Seems like all the Trump optimism boils down to "Hope snd Change"

How fuckkng ironic

marcus says

You don't want to shop price !!

People want to use insurance for non-catastrophic events because it gives them the illusory feeling that 'someone else' is paying for it, even though it's not true.

It's also the one of the biggest reasons that paying for non-emergent outpatient care is usually quite expensive.

Other countries, including many that do not have single payer can deliver high quality care for a fraction of the US

rando says

He's at least perceived to be immune from petty bribery because he's rich.

That and Wall Street and other usual suspects didn't contribute significantly to his election

joeyjojojunior says

Don't vote for Republicans then. They block campaign finance reform every time.

Pretty sure Clinton campaign benefited handsomely from rules in place. I do believe Bernie would have been more favorable in this regard.

Any serious links that Clinton ever made a bona fide effort to alter campaign finance rules?

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

This doesn't include child sex slaves and human sacrifices, drugs, excursions to tropical orgy venues, etc. that are provided to Congressfucks.

The party of social justice warriors is complicit in this by incessant bitching about child labor.

Sadly, taking away child labor in many instances leads to sex trafficking or betrothal of child brides

rando says

American Medical Assn $15,290,000

Lot of people here think this greatly benefits doctors. If it did, membership would be in 80% range or higher.

Actually it benefits the insurance companies and gives them upper hand in bossing doctors around

fraser says

The possibility of a president making decisions on the basis of what is best for the citizens, who isnt dependent on campaign contributions. And strong enough to do stand up to the resistance.

Doesn't benefit media obviously and some read MSM news and quote it here verbatim without asking "what are they not telling?"

#1MSM tactic: lying by omission, but those that quote those lies here already "knew" that

MMR says

rando says

American Medical Assn $15,290,000

Lot of people here think this greatly benefits doctors. If it did, membership would be in 80% range or higher.

Actually it benefits the insurance companies and gives them upper hand in bossing doctors around

Good point. Had not occurred to me that the AMA might actually be run by insurance companies and not doctors.

rando says

To do that, we need to have publicly funded campaigns. What we have now is systematic bribery of congressmen via "campaign contributions". Here are the top bribers of congress in 2016:

These are the top bribers contributing to the public campaigns. What is going on in the 501c world makes this stuff a drop in the bucket. That's where the big bribery bucks are happening.

fraser says

This is the appeal of Trump. The possibility of a president making decisions on the basis of what is best for the citizens, who isnt dependent on campaign contributions. And strong enough to do stand up to the resistance.

Really? Then why is he setting up a cabinet that is a koch bros alumni libertarian billionaire frathouse? It's like he took the book Dark Money and pulled all the names out of it to nominate for his cabinet.

bob2356 says

These are the top bribers contributing to the public campaigns. What is going on in the 501c world makes this stuff a drop in the bucket. That's where the big bribery bucks are happening.

OK, what can we do about 501c's?

What do other countries do? Say Australia. Seems well run, though I don't know much about the place.

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

Doctors will just ask for a lien on your house with the consideration line left blank.

IT people are saints as long as they are not from India or China

rando says

OK, what can we do about 501c's?

Absolutely nothing. The only people that could do anything about 501c money or the private foundations that fund them are the politicians that depend on them to stay in office. The libertarian ultra wealthy have spent the last 50 years eliminating any impediment to pouring unlimited money into the political system. The citizens united decision that eliminated any last vestige of restrictions on political spending came from over 20 years of expensive and extensive legal challenges that set legal precedent on step at a time.

rando says

What do other countries do? Say Australia. Seems well run, though I don't know much about the place.

You do know that 501c refers to the applicable section of the US tax code don't you? Other countries have a different legal, political, and tax system. Most other countries (at least democracies) are parliamentary systems of some type. Parliamentary systems depend on coalitions to form a ruling majority. Unlike the US there is no way to know which parties will make up the governing coalition. No one could possibly put money into all of the parties. So elections in other countries last a short time and cost a small fraction of what US elections cost.

Trump will build strategic holes in the wall, so we can, from time to time, escape to mexico for needed medicines at discount prices...

Tenpoundbass says

The US tax payers have payed for virtually every last bit of medical advances in the last 40 years.

We already own it, it's just a matter of Trump finding the cheapest bidder to make it.

For better or worse, this is a big part of what got him in the door...

fraser says

This is the appeal of Trump. The possibility of a president making decisions on the basis of what is best for the citizens, who isnt dependent on campaign contributions

Interesting angle. Wonder how much CNN bashing of trump is due to trump replacing them with twitter?

MMR says

Doesn't benefit media obviously and some read MSM news and quote it here verbatim without asking "what are they not telling?"

MMR says

#1MSM tactic: lying by omission,

as opposed to just making shit up like the right wing echo chamber?