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Brilliant quote I saw today

By someone else follow someone else   2017 Jan 24, 8:28pm 3,860 views   30 comments   watch   nsfw   quote   share    


Propaganda isn't for convincing people; it's for checking to see who accepts obvious lies quietly - and who doesn't.

2   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Jan 24, 11:07pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

This election proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that to a degree far far higher than I would have ever imagined, WAY TOO MANY AMERICANS

Patrick says

accepts obvious lies quietly

3   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Jan 24, 11:31pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Good Quote.
Read it several times to let it sink in.

APO needs to paraphrase this. lol

4   mmmarvel   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 25, 5:47am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

This election proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that to a degree far far higher than I would have ever imagined, WAY TOO MANY AMERICANS

Yeah but - as most of acknowledge, this was a HORRIBLE election where both candidates were ... well, horrible. Many Americans voted against an evil they perceived worse than the other evil. Bottom line was to choose an evil that was going to run the course or choose the evil that was (at least claiming to be) different.

5   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2017 Jan 25, 6:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

This election proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that to a degree far far higher than I would have ever imagined, WAY TOO MANY AMERICANS

Patrick says

accepts obvious lies quietly

If it's obtained in an email hack, it's not really a lie, right Marcus?

6   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Jan 25, 6:14am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Fucking White Male says

If it's obtained in an email hack, it's not really a lie, right Marcus?

You misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about lies people accepted about Hillary (although there is that). I'm talking about people not being bothered by relatively constant lies from Trump. Yes, yes, I know, you think his lying was equivalent to Hillary's lying or other politician's lies. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's fascinating, but also very depressing. I get the reasoning to some extent, it has to do with bias and things people want to believe. But ultimately, at least in my view, they are accepting an unprecedented type and amount of lies.

7   BlueSardine   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 25, 6:29am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Here's the thing.
1- Trump is lying
2- Trump knows he's lying
3- Trump knows that the majority of citizens know he's lying
4- Trump knows citizens know the vast majority of politicians lie to get elected and try to cover their lies up.
5- Trump knows citizens know he doesn't try to cover up his lies. (mostly)
6- Trump knows that people hate the act of covering up a lie at least as much as the lie itself, if not more.
7- Trump concludes his lies are more palatable to citizens as they represent only 1/2 of the total lie equation. ( 1- tell the lie, 2- cover it up )
8- A large segment of citizens conclude they will be lied to by whoever takes office.
9- A large segment of citizens vote for Trump, so they can be lied to, but not have to suffer the additional pain of the coverup.
10- Trump concludes he doesn't give a fuck if he gets kicked out of office for lying without the coverup to mitigate the lie somewhat, as he has billions waiting for him in retirement.

marcus says

I'm talking about people not being bothered by relatively constant lies from Trump.

8   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Jan 25, 6:53am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Macropodia says

9- A large segment of citizens vote for Trump, so they can be lied to, but not have to suffer the additional pain of the coverup

I see what you're saying, but don't buy it at all. When Clinton said "I did not have sex with that Woman" or when Hillary lied about emails or deleted some, from their view they are protecting themselves from those who would do anything to find some dirt that might politically hurt them. This doesn't make it okay, but I find it more acceptable and understandable than Trumps lies. But it's also a very small fraction of Trumps lies.

Trump lies in an entirely different way that reflects a personality disorder. When he says that he won the popular vote (an example of a somewhat unimportant lie - but a good example), he has convinced even himself of this lie. He's like TPB, he at least half way or more believes his lies.

To me, this is very dangerous.

When Hillary lies it is to protect herself for something that we only know about because of those making huge efforts to catch her in something politically damaging.

THe type of dishonesty that Trump exhibits is exemplified by some of his business failures and bankruptcies. Business decisions have to be grounded in reality. Not just hype, bullshit and salesmanship. This is why I find Trump so frightening. He says he's going to bring high paying jobs back to America. He probably believes it. So he'll start throwing random protectionist polices at that objective, while his Goldman cronies come up with creative ways to short the market or otherwise profit from it.

Maybe that's kind of a worst case scenario, I'll admit. No, a worse case scenario is Trump doing tough "negotiating" with China or Russia over their actions with neighbors, and accidentally triggering world war 3.

9   Tenpoundbass   ignore (15)   2017 Jan 25, 7:27am     ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Liberals poetically waxing on Presidential truths.

How cute!

10   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (5)   2017 Jan 25, 7:31am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Marcus gonna Marcus.

11   bob2356   ignore (4)   2017 Jan 25, 7:47am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

When Hillary lies it is to protect herself for something that we only know about because of those making huge efforts to catch her in something politically damaging.

That is the biggest pile of stinking dog crap I've seen in a long time. Reread your sentence. If she did something politically damaging in secret that people had to dig out then by definition she lied. Then lied to cover it up when caught. Honesty and integrity is never politically damaging.

I see zero difference between trumps fundamental dishonesty and hillarys fundamental dishonesty. They both spend all day fully convinced that everything they do is justified and right because they are superior beings that the rest of us should be grateful for having as leaders.

12   CBOEtrader   ignore (6)   2017 Jan 25, 8:03am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Fucking White Male says

If it's obtained in an email hack, it's not really a lie, right Marcus?

You misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about lies people accepted about Hillary (although there is that). I'm talking about people not being bothered by relatively constant lies from Trump. Yes, yes, I know, you think his lying was equivalent to Hillary's lying or other politician's lies. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's fascinating, but also very depressing. I get the reasoning to some extent, it has to do with bias and things people want to believe. But ultimately, at least in my view, they are accepting an unprecedented type and amount of lies.

This is absolutely true. I see it everywhere, and on every level. We are accepting half truths or even small blatant lies, especially if they are in favor of our team... And we justify this because everyone is lying.

This is the gaslighting mentioned recently in a CNN article. Discerning truth is a full time job. Its sad all around.

13   Entitlemented   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 25, 8:57am     ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Macropodia says

Here's the thing.

1- Trump is lying

2- Trump knows he's lying

Trump is attempting to do everything he talked about during the campaign, Jobs in US, Repatriating Jobs, Infrastructure, R&D growth.

Where the lies, goverment control, come in is with the working class entitlement scam of Communism/Bolshevickism.

The greatest lies were that Government control of resources, companies would make everyone wealthy in the fairest way possible. Perhaps the greatest lie is that those with no Engineering background could run companies, but only those with administrative backgrounds in the Soviet government could run companies. AKA, let kick out the Steve Jobs and bring in the C student in public administration.

Sadly the US has the greatest rights for women, education, and all individuals that any other country (so sayeth my Female friend who espaped from Afghanistan).

Read about communist mindsets, and see how much of this is in the Marches minds, and the "gotta be against Trump" revelers. In addition to > 10 Million deaths, heres what you get with Communism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_propaganda

14   Quigley   ignore (2)   2017 Jan 25, 9:13am     ↓ dislike (3)   quote   flag        

Just because the entire mainstream media, celebrities, and deeply entrenched politicians disagree with Trump on an issue (like voter fraud) doesn't mean that he is objectively wrong or in any way lying. He might be "subjectively wrong" but that's a function of public perception, not reality. Please don't confuse the two.
Trump tends to exaggerate which isn't the same as outright lying, but merely inflating an existing issue to raise its level of importance. However, fact checking organizations like to say these are lies. Ok well he doesn't need to even exaggerate now that the campaign is over. Just do and MAGA. Sit back, smoke a bowl, and relax as he makes us win again by making Leftists lose.

15   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 25, 9:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

"Just because the entire mainstream media, celebrities, and deeply entrenched politicians disagree with Trump on an issue (like voter fraud) doesn't mean that he is objectively wrong or in any way lying."

No, he is objectively wrong. There have been many studies done on voter fraud, and the results are always the same. There is zero indication of any large scale voter fraud.

And spare me the exaggeration not lying nonsense. He and Spicer objectively lie.

16   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Jan 25, 6:52pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

If she did something politically damaging in secret that people had to dig out then by definition she lied.

I disagree. Powell suggested she not even use email too much. I don't know what business you are in, and it doesn't really apply to me, but I have had jobs in the past where conversations I had with some people were not conversations I wanted shared with everyone. She might have done things that were a little out of step with what Obama wanted her to do, or that went against what who knows who wanted. The fact that she didn't want all of her emails made public does not in any way prove dishonest or slimy dealings.

It seems obvious to me that the chief diplomat would sometimes be trying to make both sides happy, or telling one side something in a negotiation that she's not telling the other side. Who knows, maybe bribes are sometimes done in places like Afghanistan. I have no idea what the nitty gritty of that job is really about. But it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that she would not want all her emails she thought were private made public. Was she possibly naive or stupid to think she could keep them private ? Sure. But dishonest no. The dishonesty only came in when she did what she did to prevent them from being made public.

By the way, just to remind you, there was another entire system for official and highly secure messaging.

17   bob2356   ignore (4)   2017 Jan 26, 2:04am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

The fact that she didn't want all of her emails made public does not in any way prove dishonest or slimy dealings.

Whether she wanted her emails public or not is irrelevant. As sec of state she is required by law to turn over any records relating to her job in any form, including emails, to be archived and available to the public. You don't know this?

She set up a private server to sidestep that requirement. She only avoided criminal charges because prior to hillary getting caught with her server there was no time requirement for turning records over to be archived. Everyone else prior to hillary turned their correspondence over in a timely manner. There is no way, now how hillary as someone who spent her life in politics and the law did not carefully plan all this. Including calculating how she could claim she technically wasn't violating the law if she ever got caught. After all she did actually intend to turn over the records in compliance with the law someday. Someday like the twelfth of never. She knew damn well what she was required to do. She went to a lot of effort to avoid doing it and keep it secret. By definition that is sleazy and dishonest.

You can't have it both ways. Hillary can't be the smartest guy in the room deserving to run the country because she is so brilliant then claim she's not capable of getting someone to put 2 email accounts on her blackberry or that she is totally unaware of the requirements of the federal records act and freedom of information act as they apply to sec of state. Maybe you actually buy into that, but very very few other people do.

18   bob2356   ignore (4)   2017 Jan 26, 2:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ironman says

oeyjojojunior says

No, he is objectively wrong. There have been many studies done on voter fraud, and the results are always the same. There is zero indication of any large scale voter fraud.

So, you think if they took a real close look at CA voting records this year, it would come back perfectly clean without any fraud?

Ah the idiot speaks. Most of what is being claimed as voting "fraud" is simply bad record keeping of voter registrations. It's a bogus issue being used to justify all kinds of voting restrictions and selective purging registrations games. Keeping millions of voter registrations up to date is is a monumental job mostly done by volunteers. I've volunteered at an elections board several times so I know how hard it is.

It's been researched time and time again. There is negligible fraud in the actual voting. But I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference between out of date or inaccurate voter registrations and actual fraud at the ballot box. Way too difficult a concept for your brain to handle. .

19   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Jan 26, 2:54am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Is there any concept simple enough for that moron Ironman to handle with his pea brain?

20   BlueSardine   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 26, 5:45am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Well we all have different 'pain' levels when someone is obviously lying to our faces and tries to cover it up.
It's a personal smackdown to your intellect, like we are stupid and supposed to believe the cover up story.

marcus says

Macropodia says

9- A large segment of citizens vote for Trump, so they can be lied to, but not have to suffer the additional pain of the coverup

I see what you're saying, but don't buy it at all. When Clinton said "I did not have sex with that Woman" or when Hillary lied about emails or deleted some, from their view they are protecting themselves from those who would do anything to find some dirt that might politically hurt them. This doesn't make it okay, but I find it more acceptable and understandable than Trumps lies.

21   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Jan 26, 6:18am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

Maybe you actually buy into that, but very very few other people do

What I buy in to was that her mistake was assuming those emails were going to stay private, not arguing that the law says republicans weren't entitled demand they be made be made public.

I'm certainly not arguing at this point that she should be president. I think you understand my point, but will now change what I'm arguing again becasue you are unable to lose an argument gracefully.

Your argument about her double lies is retarded. My point about the difference in Hillary's honesty and integrity versus TRump stands.The fact that you refuse to understand it is not an argument, and it's ironic that you bring lies (about her double lies) into the argument as if that's logic, when what we are talking about is lies.

22   Tim Aurora   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 26, 6:27am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

THe type of dishonesty that Trump exhibits is exemplified by some of his business failures and bankruptcies. Business decisions have to be grounded in reality. Not just hype, bullshit and salesmanship. This is why I find Trump so frightening. He says he's going to bring high paying jobs back to America. He probably believes it. So he'll start throwing random protectionist polices at that objective, while his Goldman cronies come up with creative ways to short the market or otherwise profit from it.

Well said

23   Tim Aurora   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 26, 6:30am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Your argument about her double lies is retarded. My point about the difference in Hillary's honesty and integrity versus TRump stands.The fact that you refuse to understand it is not an argument, and it's ironic that you bring lies (about her double lies) into the argument as if that's logic, when what we are talking about is lies.

We are in a new world, as in "newspeak" from George Orwell's 1984.

24   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Jan 26, 7:08am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

bob2356 says

Everyone else prior to hillary turned their correspondence over in a timely manner.

As far as i know, all of the previous people in her job that had a gmail, aol, yahoo or whatever account in addition to their official secure emails using the secure system, did not turn those emails over.

25   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Jan 26, 9:16am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ironman says

I didn't know Trump also had a secret server in his basement

Several of Trump's circle are using private servers. The list includes Bannon and Cruella Conway.

26   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Jan 26, 9:21am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Macropodia says

Here's the thing.

1- Trump is lying

2- Trump knows he's lying

3- Trump knows that the majority of citizens know he's lying
...

If everything he says is a lie, why bother talking?
If half of the things he says are lies, how does one know which half he believes and which half he knows that you know that he knows is a lie?
Why would anyone want such an enema nozzle around? Having it spewing shit from the oval office is annoying to anyone with self respect and it's an embarrassment to the country.

27   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (2)   2017 Jan 26, 11:32am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Patrick says

Propaganda isn't for convincing people; it's for checking to see who accepts obvious lies quietly - and who doesn't.

The point about propaganda is that intelligence or education or ability to think critically are not enough to protect you.

For example: most people think commercial advertising doesn't affect them. But studies show advertising has a massive effect on what people buy.

The only way to resist is to display a super human degree of vigilance and resistance to distraction coupled with a deliberate willingness to resist.

But first people cannot be on their guards 100% of the time especially when the intent is precisely to distract their attention, and second when arguments come from their own side, people DO NOT want to resist. That's the point. They just want to hear something that will confirm their existing beliefs.

28   patriotgamer148   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 26, 12:30pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Macropodia says

Here's the thing.

1- Trump is lying

2- Trump knows he's lying

3- Trump knows that the majority of citizens know he's lying

29   bob2356   ignore (4)   2017 Jan 27, 7:12am     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

As far as i know, all of the previous people in her job that had a gmail, aol, yahoo or whatever account in addition to their official secure emails using the secure system, did not turn those emails over.

Your source for that is what exactly? Which sec of state and what emails? Albright said she didn't use emails. Powell says he sent some that he didn't retain, but he was wrong to do it. State department policy changed in 2005 when powell left. The policy is emails that would be subject to the freedom of information act be conducted on state department emails. Rice never had a private mail account. Kerry says he only uses a government account. So your previous people is an N of 1 who was the pioneer of emails at the state department before there were any policies in place and freely admits he should made a mistake.

Powell continuing to use his commercial email account isn't at all the same thing as going to a great deal of trouble to set a secret email server.

30   jazz_music   ignore (12)   2017 Jan 27, 2:35pm     ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Entitlemented says

working class entitlement scam of Communism/Bolshevickism.

... which is an opinion that required an investment of at least a billion dollars a year in radio and faux news to convince you that trickle down is not only real but it is a life or death priority never mind 40+ years of rip offs flooding off shore tax free ... and even that isn't good enough because they finally figured out how to ANONYMOUSLY big that big rip off money back to buy mortgages en masse, collateralize rental income streams, sell it on Wall Street and invent a whole economy where people who work are fucked and people who rip-off lie and gamble live like kings.

In Greenspans own words our new economic success is built on worker insecurity.

Investment is the perfect word here because all that social safety net got stolen by CEOs who get traded like sports stars in exchange for breaking laws for more of our tax dollars, never fearing loss of golden parachutes much less prison time while ALL OUR REPRESENTATIVES make stellar careers selling off our society's preeminence to these celebrity criminals.

Greed is a deadly sin, watch and learn while the nation falls from preeminence to ruins and at some point it will dawn on you that maybe social safety nets are the correct strategy including medical and education.

In the mean time we get more enforcement, more war, more poor, and more avoidable death.


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