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PatNet Improvement Suggestions

By Dan8267 following x   2017 Jan 28, 1:48pm 49,251 views   228 comments   watch   quote     share  


Thread for idea submission for PatNet improvements

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1 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 28, 1:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Some level of author-based moderation.
1. The ability to delete trolling posts. The one thing trolls hate is having their trolling deleted.
2. The ability to restrict posts to users who have been created at least three months ago and have a post history of at least five posts. This makes using alts a far greater pain in the ass.
3. The ability to create invited-only threads. This will allow for the most productive conversations. Just add a request invitation link on the thread post. Let authors whitelist users for the thread or for any thread by that author.

None of these would interfere with free speech as troll as welcome to open their own petty threads. It would, however, let people who want to engage in truly free speech to have a conversation without it being disrupted or derailed.

2 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 28, 2:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Excellent article on stopping trolls the Google+ way.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2824753/how-to-control-trolls-with-google.html

Simply put, trolls (according to a recently published study from the University of Manitoba) are "everyday sadists" and "psychopaths" who get pleasure from the unhappiness of others. Some are "accidental trolls" -- and don't even know that they're trolls. Others are proud of the distinction and devote countless hours to honing their trolling skills and bragging to other trolls on dedicated message boards.

Trolling is the act of gratifying one's desire to see people suffer by the use of specially targeted comments on message boards or social networks under the cover of anonymity.

Trolls do real damage. Trolling (and spambot-generated spam) convinced Popular Science -- a publication devoted to open discourse about science -- to shut off comments for everybody.

Trolling is wrong. And you don't have to accept it. It's time to stop putting up with trolling and do something about it.

The good news for anyone who wants to be a public and influential person is that there are places to go where you can express yourself, have conversations and share your passions and still keep trolls in check. The best of these is Google+, in my opinion.

[O]n Google+, comments to a post are part of and subordinate to that post. When trolls comment on your post on Google+, you can delete the comment and block future comment.

After you block them, the troll will see nothing on your profile as long as they're logged in. If they log out, they can see your public posts -- Google+ posts are, after all, public pages on the open Internet. But they can't comment (i.e., troll you) without being logged in.

3 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 28, 2:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

The troll can, of course, create a new account with a new fake name and come back to troll you. But because it takes some time and effort to create a new account, and they can be blocked with such little effort on your part, trolls almost never do this on Google+ for any length of time.

Blocking on Google+ is the opposite of blocking on Twitter. On Google+, the troll is gone forever. On Twitter, the troll continues to troll you without restraint. The only effect is that you have your head in the sand while the troll reaches all your followers.

On Google+, blocking someone makes that account vanish for you, and makes your posts and comments vanish for them. It's a very complete termination of interaction between you and the troll.

4 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Jan 28, 5:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

1. The ability to delete trolling posts. The one thing trolls hate is having their trolling deleted.

Why do you hate HEY YOU?
ROFLMAO.

5 someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 28, 5:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I do love suggestions!

Need to finish making the site able to escape shutdown notices, then I'll start dealing with these.

I'm using packer.io to generate vm's that I will be able to deploy to any cloud provider quickly to move the site. Haven't quite got it working, but soon. Is there a better way to make the site instantly portable to another ISP?

6 FortWayne   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 28, 5:31pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It would be nice if every post had some link that scrolls to the top or maybe the menu button was always visible when scrolled. Right now on mobile device it takes a really long time to get out of the thread into the forum if the thread is really long.

7 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Jan 28, 5:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

1. Eliminate Ignore. No one is forced to read any thread or comment.
I can see some leaving patnet, POUTING.
2. List the names of those that "Dislike".

BTW,
Stop APO from using such vulgar language.
I'm PISSED OFF & FUCKING tired of the SHIT EATING ASSHOLES using such language
on such a civil site. Anyone that doesn't like these brilliant ideas,FUCK YOU in the ASS!

Intelligence is not a requirement to practice FREE SPEECH, GOT IT CUMWADS?

8 someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 28, 6:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says

It would be nice if every post had some link that scrolls to the top or maybe the menu button was always visible when scrolled. Right now on mobile device it takes a really long time to get out of the thread into the forum if the thread is really long.

@FortWayne OK, how about the up and down arrows after the comment numbers, with the big "P" between them going to the home page?

Too close together and hard to click on a phone? Too ugly?

9 Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 28, 6:38pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Overrun Patnet with flaming liberals. Everything goes better with flaming liberals.

10 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 28, 6:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Patrick says

Need to finish making the site able to escape shutdown notices,

I don't see how your approach is going to help you achieve this. The fundamental problem is that as an American citizen living in America, the U.S. government can easily force you to comply with its wishes. They order you to take down some content. If you don't comply, they seize your assets and throw you into a cage. How are you able to resist the latter even if you manage to make some of your assets out of the reach of government?

Those who resist the U.S. government's order do so by having the protection of another government. In the case of Wikileaks, that's the Swedish government and a few others. Julian Assange is protected by the government of Ecuador and is living in their embassy in the U.K. Without the protection of those governments, Wikileaks would be shut down in a day and Assange arrested and imprisioned with either no trial or a shame trial.

When you receive a DMCA takedown notice, a corporation initiates the action, but the action is ultimately carried out by the U.S. government. As long as you are living in the U.S., it can use violence and the threat of violence to force you to comply. To run a truly free online community, you would have to physically reside in a country that supported and protected your freedom. Unfortunately, the U.S. is far from such a country. It pays lip service to freedom and democracy, but its actions unequivocally demonstrates utter intolerance for these things. The people who run the government are interested in wealth and power, not liberty. They tolerate the people having liberties that increase their own wealth and power, but not those that threaten it.

11 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 28, 6:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

[continue]

For example, you are free to invent things and to buy lots of different products, because that enriches the ruling class. You are free to talk about most issues, because that increases ad revenues. You are not free to take video of animal cruelty in farms, because that may motivate the people to demand regulations on animal suffering that would cost farm owners money in the form of either expenses or decrease revenues. So that liberty is not tolerate and laws are passed against it.

12 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 28, 6:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

HEY YOU says

1. Eliminate Ignore. No one is forced to read any thread or comment.

Replace ignore with "ban from my threads". No one cares about comments being hidden. They just don't want their threads disrupted. Disrupting someone else's conversation is not free speech. Having a conversation with others that cannot be disrupted by trolls is free speech.

Free speech is the freedom to engage in conversations with willing participants, not to force others to listen to your voice while drowning out theirs. Trolls are the equivalent of the protesters who shout "not my president" and "he will not divide us" over other people.

13 FortWayne   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 28, 6:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says

@FortWayne OK, how about the up and down arrows after the comment numbers, with the big "P" between them going to the home page?

Too close together and hard to click on a phone? Too ugly?

Thanks Patrick. Whatever works, I'm not picky when it comes to looks. :)

14 someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 28, 8:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

I don't see how your approach is going to help you achieve this. The fundamental problem is that as an American citizen living in America, the U.S. government can easily force you to comply with its wishes.

For now, I just want the ability to easily clone the site somewhere else, so a fully functional copy is up within one hour.

But long term, I think there's a technical solution to censorship of any one website. The site just has to be distributed, kind of holographic so that each piece has a significant part of the whole thing, maybe not all of it, but enough to be effective.

Currently studying bittorrent and bitcoin to see how those things escape shutdown. Trying to apply what I learn to the latest browser features like localstorage, so that every browser on the internet could have a fragment of the forum. It wouldn't really be patrick.net anymore, but that's OK. It would still be something really good to do. And it's fun to think that ordinary people like you and me have this power to escape the big cat by creating an infinite number of mouseholes to hide in.

16 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 12:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Actually, I didn't vote for Trump. I was Bernie or Bust, and supported Jill Stein after the super delegates nominated Hillary. You can tell this from my classic thread, Why you should vote for someone who will lose this election.

17 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Jan 29, 10:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

Disrupting someone else's conversation is not free speech.

WTF!
A comment is not an insurrection of a physical attack on the OP or those that comment.
It's words.
Please don't offend my tender sensibilities.
I'M A SNOWFLAKE.
I'll ignore you.
Free speech-saying something that I agree with.

18 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 12:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

It's not about offense. I have never taken offense from any troll as I simply do not respect them as human beings, nonetheless their opinions. It's about the ability to have a discussion or debate with other people and not have that discussion derailed with endless alts reposting bullshit. Conversations have flows. There is nothing you or any troll cannot say in your own threads. Hence, there is no censorship.

Furthermore, if you look at any of my threads, you'll see that not only do I welcome people challenging my positions, I demand they do that, attack the core of my position, rather than making straw men, ad hominems, poisoning the well, no true Scottsmen, and other faulty arguments that fail to attack my position.

Finally, calling someone a snowflake doesn't make them so. It's a poisoning the well argument and carries no weight.

19 FP   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 29, 1:54pm   ↑ like (6)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Patrick, if you follow Dan's suggestions, soon enough this site will be filled almost exclusively with the pseudo-intellectual mastrubations of Dan and Iwog. And the headlines by ComradePeter. My 2c.

20 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 29, 2:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

Replace ignore with "ban from my threads".

Disagree with this.

21 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 2:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

FP says

Patrick, if you follow Dan's suggestions, soon enough this site will be filled almost exclusively with the pseudo-intellectual mastrubations of Dan and Iwog. And the headlines by ComradePeter. My 2c.

That is completely wrong. You are arguing that trolling is necessary for conversation. It is not. It is not even productive. Call It Crazy has never added anything to a conversation he decided to troll.

22 justme   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 29, 3:01pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

You are arguing that trolling is necessary for conversation.

I'm arguing that you, Dan, should not be the arbiter of what constitutes trolling, not even on "your" threads. There is no need to turn the PatNet free speech zone into a collection of non-interacting free-speech "silos". It is counter to the very fundamentals of free speech, if you ask me. There should be the possibility of exchange of ideas, no matter how troll-y you may find them. The ignore functionality is good enough for me. Dan, you can feel free to recommend on your own threads who you deem should be ignored, but you should not be able to FORCE them to be ignored.

23 patriotgamer148   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 29, 4:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

You are arguing that trolling is necessary for conversation.


24 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 29, 4:19pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (3)     quote        

Well I haven't said anything until now because I opened up the troll discussion about a year ago and was overridden but I'll present my side one more time.

The banning of Piggy, one individual, would make this site SUBSTANTIALLY better. I know you want this open to the free exchange of ideas, however would you really keep it that way if 9 out of 10 threads were flooded with hardcore porn? 4chan gore? KKK propaganda?

I welcome anyone to insult me in any way they wish as long as they want to add something to a thread. However I think once someone has amassed so many months of site vandalism without once adding anything of value, they should be exterminated.

I will also point out that Piggy is almost certainly responsible for the loss of our Arizona firebrand Rob by calling in a fake accusation to his place of work. I consider this a very big loss to the site, not because I agreed with him but because he brought a unique perspective and is still frequently referenced in conversations. I'm sure of this because he has also posted my full name, the name of my wife, and my physical address on several occasions while simultaneously committing libel on a daily basis.

Seriously it becomes a question of ABSOLUTE freedom of speech or a teeny tiny bit of moderation and a HUGE improvement in the site.

26 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Jan 29, 5:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

It's not about offense. I have never taken offense from any troll as I simply do not respect them as human beings, nonetheless their opinions. It's about the ability to have a discussion or debate with other people and not have that discussion derailed with endless alts reposting bullshit. Conversations have flows. There is nothing you or any troll cannot say in your own threads. Hence, there is no censorship.

Furthermore, if you look at any of my threads, you'll see that not only do I welcome people challenging my positions, I demand they do that, attack the core of my position, rather than making straw men, ad hominems, poisoning the well, no true Scottsmen, and other faulty arguments that fail to attack my position.

Finally, calling someone a snowflake doesn't make them so. It's a poisoning the well argument and carries no weight.

I understand the points you are trying make.
I know that many on here are forced to read comments,they disagree with,on their threads
& have to respond to comments on their threads,Patnet rule # 11.
Ignoring something doesn't require a click.
HEY YOU has clicked zero "Ignores"
Notice I used "I" 3 times in my comment.
If I say SNOWFLAKES or any other name doesn't mean someone is.
Old sayings:Hit dog hollers. If the shoe fits wear it. etc.

People just look for a reason to be offended.
I'm ignoring those that disagree with me & taking my threads,going home & "you" can't play.

Anyone can post comments on my threads.
If they open themselves to personal attacks for hypocrisy based on a pretzel logic value system,
I'm more than glad to point it out.
They are welcome to be ASSHOLES!

Ignoring is not censorship?
Of course it's not! Those that"ignore" said so.

" It's a poisoning the well.."
WELL! Let's limit access to the well.

27 someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 29, 5:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says

I will also point out that Piggy is almost certainly responsible for the loss of our Arizona firebrand Rob by calling in a fake accusation to his place of work.

What? I missed this. What did Ironman accuse Roberto of? How do you know it was called in?

iwog says

however would you really keep it that way if 9 out of 10 threads were flooded with hardcore porn? 4chan gore? KKK propaganda?

Flooding, but not the content, would be a good cause to reduce the rate at which someone could post, because that prevents others from being heard..

iwog says

I'm sure of this because he has also posted my full name, the name of my wife, and my physical address on several occasions

I thought you put your real name out there though. Was it simply a matter of looking up publicly available info after that? @Ironman

28 patriotgamer148   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 29, 5:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says

iwog says

I will also point out that Piggy is almost certainly responsible for the loss of our Arizona firebrand Rob by calling in a fake accusation to his place of work.

Roberto's not the only one. For that petty cunt there's no line he won't cross. He can't live with himself otherwise.

29 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 29, 5:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Patrick says

What? I missed this. What did Ironman accuse Roberto of? How do you know it was called in?

I'm not sure how much of this you were privy to but Robert and I talked about it via emails. Someone called his place of employment and accused him of something which resulted in the police being called and a major disruption to his real life. This caused him to leave the board.

The ONLY person on this website who has ever given two shits about who I am in real life is Piggy. Even just a few weeks ago he was posting information about my neighborhood and perhaps you remember having to delete my personal information when he posted it to the board.

No one can prove it was him but I'm satisfied. There are no other suspects.

30 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 5:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

justme says

I'm arguing that you, Dan, should not be the arbiter of what constitutes trolling, not even on "your" threads.

Ah, but the points you are making don't hold water.

1. There is no need to turn the PatNet free speech zone into a collection of non-interacting free-speech "silos".

Stopping trolls from disrupting does not turn a forum into non-interacting silos. The fact is a person either chooses to engage with the troll or chooses not to. If the person chooses to engage the toll then he won't ban the troll or will engage in third-person threads. If the person chooses not to engage the troll then already the very isolation you are opposing has been actualized.

2. It is counter to the very fundamentals of free speech

No, discouraging people from starting threads would be counter to the very fundamentals of free speech, and trolling does this very thing. A lot of people simply decide that it's not worth their time to write on a forum were trolls run rampant. By allowing trolling, you are actually decreasing the amount of free discussion between people with opposing ideas.

3. There should be the possibility of exchange of ideas, no matter how troll-y you may find them.

A user preventing a troll from posting on this thread does NOTHING to prevent the possibility of the exchange of ideas between any two persons, even the user and the troll. Each can still broadcast their ideas uninterrupted on their own threads. Each can still read the other persons threads while not logged in. Your assertion is empirically false. This very website's history disproves it.

[stupid comment limit]

31 FP   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 29, 5:56pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says

I thought you put your real name out there though.

Iwog has disclosed so much (indirect) personal info that it is not hard to discover who he is.

Patrick, you also disclosed info about Iwog from which it is very easy to identify him - the fact that he had co-produced the men's rights movie.

I always cringe when I see people doing such things (TD was very careless in this regard).

32 rootvg   ignore (0)   2017 Jan 29, 5:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says

I do love suggestions!

Need to finish making the site able to escape shutdown notices, then I'll start dealing with these.

I'm using packer.io to generate vm's that I will be able to deploy to any cloud provider quickly to move the site. Haven't quite got it working, but soon. Is there a better way to make the site instantly portable to another ISP?

Patrick, I will say your response time is incredibly good. I attribute that to the simplicity of the site and lack of overhead.

33 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 5:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

4. The ignore functionality is good enough for me.

The ignore function already bans trolls from a user's threads. What I'm proposing is less restrictive than the ignore function. It would allow both users to see each other's posts even while logged in. The only thing I'm adding is a mechanism that circumvents the effectiveness of using alts to force yourself into someone else's conversation so as to disrupt it.

The only thing accepting trolls does is encourage people who want to participate in honest debate and discussion of controversial issues not to.

34 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 29, 5:58pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote        

Patrick says

I thought you put your real name out there though. Was it simply a matter of looking up publicly available info after that? @Ironman

Sure I did put my real name out there and yes he used public searches to find out about me. However how many people would casually go to the country recorder website, access a LONG list of properties I own, then find the one I use as my personal residence and publish it? Over and over again? For YEARS?

He has an obsession with getting back at people and I'm sure it was him that chased Roberto off the site. It's also probable he's done the same with others. It's a good thing I'm so bullet proof.

35 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 29, 6:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Dan8267 says

The ignore function already bans trolls from a user's threads.

It does? Since when?

36 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 6:01pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

iwog says

The banning of Piggy, one individual, would make this site SUBSTANTIALLY better.

Piggy is a prime reason most people who stumble on to PatNet probably don't bother staying or joining in on conversations. It's a perfect example of letting any tactic go actually works against free speech.

Trolling is the online equivalent of Triggly Puff and other leftists preventing debates on college campuses.

I have no problem debating a troll one on one, or a hundred trolls at once. But that can be done on an invitation thread. There is no reason I need to allow them to disrupt my other threads in order to debate them on a designated one.

37 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 6:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

HEY YOU says

Ignoring something doesn't require a click.

I don't want to ignore trolls. I want to keep them out of conversations that would be productive and enlightening otherwise. Many times two or more people with good intentions are discussing a controversial issue. That conversation immediately stops when a troll barges in. Ignoring the troll doesn't work. Banning him and deleting any comments made by him with an alt does work. It works damn well because trolls hate it when their comments are deleted. It makes them completely impotent.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to communicate with consenting audiences, not the freedom to force your voice onto others or to prevent others from being heard.

38 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 6:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

iwog says

I'm not sure how much of this you were privy to but Robert and I talked about it via emails. Someone called his place of employment and accused him of something which resulted in the police being called and a major disruption to his real life. This caused him to leave the board.

The ONLY person on this website who has ever given two shits about who I am in real life is Piggy.

Piggy is exactly the sort of loser who would swat someone. That's the exact reason he kept trying to get my address, but chickened out whenever offered a neutral place to meet. The fat fuck doesn't want anyone to know what he looks like. He just wants to make a false report in a 911 call.

39 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jan 29, 6:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

iwog says

It does? Since when?

I think from the beginning. That is the only reason to use it.

I was hoping enough people would ban Piggy with ignore that he couldn't participate in any our conversations. It wouldn't shut him up, of course, but it would limit how much he disrupts this site.

We do, however, need a mechanism for keeping alts out. That's why I suggest two mechanisms: whitelists and users with a history of posts only.

40 FortWayne   ignore (1)   2017 Jan 30, 8:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Thanks for the link to home and the arrows Patrick. Makes it much easier on mobile.

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