patrick.net

it's a bit smaller due to real burden, i.e. benefits but there is surely a fine on one's head if they are not in business for themselves.

the fees are usually for "planning, organizing, supervising"

Hey You are you saying you expect to be employed with 0 benefit to your employer?

Ironman says

What about keeping the lights on, rent, insurance and all the other overhead running a business?

that falls under real burden.

because you can always quit and work for yourself. no one is forcing you to work for someone who rips you off.

liberal scumbags steal your hard earn money to buy votes. you SHOULD be concerned about that. unless you are STUPID.

I love that diagram because I've never seen it before.

It's true that there must be a good profit for your employer or you would not be employed.

Can we make a georgist version of the diagram? Taxes would come out of unearned land-rent.

Tenpoundbass says

Hey You are you saying you expect to be employed with 0 benefit to your employer?

I'm not stuck in that paradigm.
I've been self employed since around 1972.
To hell with making someone else rich while saying,"Yes Boss!"
When I did work for someone,I walked off more than one job when the boss started thinking he
was the "BOSS". I didn't need no stinkin' reference.
Just realized I was BOYCOTTING,not putting up with shit from the boss that he couldn't do, early in my life.

Homey D. Clown: "Homey don't play that."

HEY YOU says

To hell with making someone else rich while saying,"Yes Boss!"

Except when docs want to be their own boss, you're the biggest fucking crybaby.

You support making insurance and hospital execs getting rich off of doctor labor every time you whine about paying cash for anything outside of catastrophic events...

Put differently, you whine about doctors who want to not have to say "yes boss" to someone else as being greedy and in it for themselves, but it's cool if you do it.... hypocrite much?

What "business" is it that you are in exactly?

Ironman says

rando says

It's true that there must be a good profit for your employer or you would not be employed.

Unfortunately, very few employees have any clue to the "hidden" costs of keeping a business open. It's VERY apparent based on regular comments here. The bulk of clueless employees think it ONLY revolves around wages paid and nothing else

Everybody understands all the costs of running a business. I've posted the real corporate profits chart on here many, many times. It's impossible to argue that corporations are vastly more profitable now than they were 50 years ago. And the reason is that employee wages haven't kept up with employee productivity.

I'm all for employers making a good profit. Let's get it back to the good profits they were making in 1960. It would be the BIGGEST jump start to the economy since WWII.

I would guestimate that a business has to gross around 10 times what it's labor cost is.

Employers pay market prices for labor and always have. It's when Leftists insist on outsourcing work and insourcing foreigners to do jobs here while allowing unchecked immigration that the market price of labor drops and you see this sort of imbalance. If jojo truly cared about the American worker getting a larger share of the pie, he would be all for slowing immigration, creating jobs here, and dismantling some of the anti business laws that retard investment in America.
But he's a Leftist shill, so he's against all that winning!

Not to mention employees being subsidized by public transfers allowing them to work for much lower wages.

Who couldn't if your rent was paid for by section 8 housing, WIC, food stamps, free medical care, avoiding other government DMV and similar costs.

Ironman says

Sadly no they don't, especially YOU. You wouldn't be on here day after day whining about it if you TRULY understood

I understand that profits are AFTER expenses. So, if profits are up bigly, then it doesn't really matter what expenses I do or don't know about--does it?

Quigley says

It's when Leftists insist on outsourcing work and insourcing foreigners

My lord. How many times are you going to repeat this bullshit. Liberals are AGAINST free trade. Republicans/Conservatives are, and always have been, FOR free trade. YOU have voted to promote outsourcing every election. YOU are responsible for it. You have no one to blame but YOURSELF.

Ironman says

They aren't.

Care to try again?

How much of that is nominal i.e. M&A and buybacks?

This chart does not show a correlation of profits to the GDP (nominal)

HEY YOU says

I'm not stuck in that paradigm.

I've been self employed since around 1972.

To hell with making someone else rich while saying,"Yes Boss!"

I totally understand what you are saying. I've been self employed in two fields for most of my adult life, since 1987.
First in the Flooriing industry, I was a hired hand that would go to Designer mills and wait by the loading dock to meet Designers and People who sold high end flooring on the side. And get jobs because I was there and available. I quickly built a clientele where I would sit home and wait for Designers and Sales people to call me, all of my friends in the trade needed a Comercial shop to work out of that they reported to everyday. They didn't make anywhere near what I did. But I quickly realized that all of them did what I was doing. Then I wouldn't have any private clientele. More over I don't think they could, they couldn't talk the talk and make the connections I did. Or they would have a long time ago. Not everyone is capable of making a business connection. They can ask for employment but not forge business relationships.
Then I did it again in my second career. I mostly do contracts from home as a software developer. When I do actually work for a company. It's because I'm getting something else out of it. Like building a case study for software methodologies I'm working on. I most always practically hire my self. I never work with shops that have teams where I'm given instruction on the code I'm to write even when I can see it is doomed to fail.
Every shop I ever worked in with a developer team, never went as smooth as when I gather requirements and use my methodologies to write the solution rather than using the same tired ass Failware patterns everyone else is using. In fact I have never been on a project with a team and a classic IT SCRUM structure.

Where we actually completed the project on time, bug free, within budget and the CIO, or IT manager wasn't let go.
I've never had a contract, I didn't deliver on time. Not everyone can be like us.

True Conservatives would have eliminated "TAXES'. to help make private businesses GREAT AGAIN.
Will we hear any Rep/Con/Neo-Nazi call for the total end of taxes.
Why do they hate FINANCIAL FREEDOM?
REDISTRIBUTION SOCIALISTS!

Ironman says

US Corporate Profits Haven't Risen As Much As You Think.

Yes, Forbes that bastion of balanced reporting. It would never take the side of Big Business against the side of labor....

Ironman says

6% of companies make 50% of U.S. profit.

So what? How does that refute any of my points? Those 6% also probably employ a large % of employees too. And they don't compensate them for their productivity.

Tenpoundbass says

Hey You are you saying you expect to be employed with 0 benefit to your employer?

Made no thread comment.
Everyone can decide for themselves where the problem might lie.

Real (2016 dollars) corporate profits per worker

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=cGhN

Shows they have tripled since the postwar period, in the 2002-2006 period really, when the dotcom recession knocked labor back a lot.

People could have another $8,000 a year to spend if they had the same piece of the pie they had 1950-1990

Then again housing costs (and health-care, the two high-rent sectors of the economy) would just go up to suck back most of these wage gains.

Ironman says

Yeah, I didn't think you'd understand anything about small business, you know, the TRUE engine that drives the economy. Funny, for someone who rails on and on about inequality, you seem to be fine with these facts..

That's what YOU vote for Ironman. YOU elect the folks that stop all attempts at campaign finance reform. YOU vote for the guys who fight for Citizens United. YOU are the reason that our politicians are owned by big business.

This is your wet dream. Own it.

Ironman says

Really?? YOU didn't vote for any president that had a hand in this chart of yours?

No the guys I vote for try to raise employee wages, try to regulate business, try to reduce inequality.

$18 trillion in gov't spending wouldn't disappear in a puff of smoke, it would result in goods and services produced and thus ends up right back in the private economy.

Corporate profits, OTOH, just accrue to people (investors and corporate officers) who already have more money than they know what to do with.

This is why inflation (and gold) is dead now.

btw "crowding out" is a thought-terminating cliche basically

now that there's so much idle capital and so many idle hands

six years of the so-called recovery, and our industrial output % of capacity is still at or below the horrific 1970s recessionary levels.

Ironman says

6% of companies make 50% of U.S. profit.

As corporate earnings were shrinking in 2015, an elite group of U.S. companies found a way to grab a bigger piece of the smaller-profit pie.

Just 28 firms in the Standard & Poor's 500 -- including gadget-maker Apple, bank JPMorgan Chase and Warren Buffett's diversified Berkshire Hathaway -- collectively hauled in more than half the total net income reported by U.S-based companies in the stock index last year, according to a USA TODAY analysis of data from S&P Global Market Intelligence. The analysis includes 462 U.S.-based companies that have reported their net income for calendar year 2015.

Seeing such a small group of big companies generate such a high percentage of the nation's total corporate net income is noteworthy, as it shows how profits have gotten even more concentrated.

Interesting, crony capitalism at it's finest.

IMO because of the bailouts and loose money policies. This chart indicates the only other time in history when there were such loose money policies

I wonder if these same companies would have been as wealthy if they weren't bailed out and subsidised and whose competition got the brunt of the regulations because they were able to lobby their way out of them. Buffet for example (according to Mel) would be gone if not for bail outs. I think that the reason that Obama didn't sign the Keystone pipe was because the Burlington Northern hauls that oil.

So what we have had is the slowest recovery from a recession in history, albeit I think that Logan has it right about the demographics. But the main reason is Obama and Bush propped up businesses that should been dead, instead of new jobs being created we have had old jobs preserved.

Small business

Ironman says

The underlining issues of the recession WEREN'T fixed, just bailout money passed around like candy.

I agree

Ironman says

The coming "RESET" will make 2008 look like a 1st grade picnic.

I used to think that but the mitigating factors are that the US is the dollar being the reserve currency in the now world economy and the strength of the dollar

Also the coming growth in the population in the US. The continued growth in the mean income. Albeit I'm not sure that the government has inflicted irreparable damage to the very essence of the culture that has created the wealth that we have today, i.e. too many handouts perverting away the culture of exchange.

HEY YOU says

Made no thread comment.

Everyone can decide for themselves where the problem might lie.

I have friends that I knew all the way back from when I was a knock around guy living hand to mouth.
They are still living like that, and they are the brink of 60, still slinging Carpet. They can't have that many days ahead of them.
Still they can't be motivated to do anything self determinating. Other than depending on some carpet shop to have work or repairs for him.
One of them is the same shop I worked out of before I got out flooring. When She knows you are struggling is when she will take the biggest advantage of you. Like get you to do a huge a job for the cheapest possible wage. While acting like she's doing you a huge favor for exploiting your possition. He's known how she is going all the way back to then. Still to this day he takes her abuse, and refuses to become som well groomed tradeshow spokes person for mill products, or a salesman. The thought of a second career is foreign to him.

Ironman says

If other countries meltdown too, how does that help. The next reset will INCLUDE other countries. Last time it was mainly contained in the US.

The US exports inflation. In order for there to be a bubble you have to have too much money in relation to the underlying assets real wealth is not money. The bubble in 2008 was created by too much money in relation to housing with HELOCS and derivative abuses and credit default stops and most of all IMO low interest rates in 2002-2004 relative to the interest rates of that time. This does not exist on a world wide basis save China, Japan and China can service debt because they are extremely productive, not to endorse Abenomics or empty cities in China.

Ironman says

Except with the population growth, mainly the Millennials and Gen Z, they are net TAKERS not MAKERS. They are not adding/helping the economy, but are a liability right now, as they "take" more then they "add".

That changes when people have kids.

Ironman says

Exactly what has happened, you can only "kick the can" down the road until you eventually come up against a wall.

Cept that is a long way down the road, the US is still the biggest GDP and will be for the foreseeable future.

Ironman says

Which is exactly why we need a reset. To clean out the useless eaters.

Agreed but the reality is that everyone has been co-opted into this socialism at the top and the bottom through public transfers and lobbying, the middle class not so much. With the coming growth they will skate for a while.

joeyjojojunior says

My lord. How many times are you going to repeat this bullshit. Liberals are AGAINST free trade. Republicans/Conservatives are, and always have been, FOR free trade. YOU have voted to promote outsourcing every election. YOU are responsible for it. You have no one to blame but YOURSELF.

There are no more Liberals in the Democrat party. Only Leftists.
Liberal is a term that defines much differently from the current politics.
But yes, the GOPe has been in lockstep with the Leftists on immigration. That's why they lost the nomination this time.

"There are no more Liberals in the Democrat party. Only Leftists."

Sanders got a lot of votes during the last primary.