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The "voter fraud" myth


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2017 Feb 12, 9:49am   16,137 views  65 comments

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http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-mit-president-qa-20170210-story.html

MIT MIT President Rafael Reif speaks to alumni in San Francisco. MIT President Rafael Reif speaks to alumni in San Francisco.

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1   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Feb 12, 11:22am  

It was a myth, then it was the Russians, now it's a Myth Again?

Just like the Diebold machines - until Obama won in 2008.

2   joeyjojojunior   2017 Feb 12, 11:40am  

No it was always a myth.

3   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Feb 12, 12:29pm  

joeyjojojunior says

No it was always a myth.

So the Russians didn't hack the election?

4   joeyjojojunior   2017 Feb 12, 2:42pm  

T L Lipsovich says

So the Russians didn't hack the election?

Nope--Russians hacked both the DNC and RNC and released only the DNC emails in an effort to swing the election to Trump. And new revelations indicate it may have been a quid pro quo for the US turning a blind eye to Ukraine.

5   joeyjojojunior   2017 Feb 12, 2:42pm  

Ironman says

Different week, different Trump (fake) scandal with these idiots.

You mean like the fake voter fraud scandal?

6   joeyjojojunior   2017 Feb 12, 5:26pm  

A google search doesn't disagree with anything. It lists a bunch of articles. Post links to the ones you think disagree with me and let's review them.

7   Rew   2017 Feb 13, 2:11pm  

T L Lipsovich says

It was a myth, then it was the Russians, now it's a Myth Again?

Russia pushing to influence our elections through media and actual "at the lever pull" voter fraud are not equivocal at all. False.

Actual voter fraud in our elections are less than many fractions of a percent: not enough to be ANY factor what-so-ever. (Other fun facts: record low crime, torture doesn't work, immigration policy in the US is some of the best in the world, there is no "open border" anywhere in the US at all.)

There is no reason to make it harder to vote, than it already is, as far as I can see. Watch the states that push for no same day registration measures, or other voter ID measures, and see what groups of people it will affect and what they think the legislation is preventing. It's like taking medicine you don't need: costly and usually causes other imbalances in the system.

8   zzyzzx   2017 Feb 14, 11:53am  

http://vesselnews.io/breaking-1000-illegal-immigrants-caught-voting-virginia/

Over 1000 Illegal Immigrants Caught Voting In Virginia

The 1,046 Virginia voters may just be the tip of the iceberg, as it’s only the number found in eight Virginia localities, the report reads. The report found that the most illegal votes were cast in 2012, followed by 2008, the year President Obama was elected to his first term. In both years, Obama won Virginia.

It’s a felony for non-citizens to vote in Virginia. But in Virginia, no proof of citizenship is required when voters register.

9   joeyjojojunior   2017 Feb 14, 12:13pm  

"Over 1000 Illegal Immigrants Caught Voting In Virginia"

Fake news. Show me where it says 1000 were caught voting.

10   bob2356   2017 Feb 14, 12:39pm  

zzyzzx says

http://vesselnews.io/breaking-1000-illegal-immigrants-caught-voting-virginia/

http://www.virginiavotersalliance.org/

pretty strange that the group that made this bombshell discovery doesn't have anything about it on their own website.

Hey , just for shits an giggles, let's trace the money. Virginia voters alliance > reagan george > King Street Patriots > catherine englebrect > true the vote.

Ah yes True the Vote. Now here comes the rest of the spiderweb:

Oh my look at that. Where's the money coming from? The Koch brothers frat house of america's ultra rich. Who are now populating trumps cabinet. Shocking, who would have guessed?

Virginia Voters Alliance, just one more grassroots 501(c)(3) organization of concerned ordinary people coming together to protect democracy. and santa clause is a jolly old man living at the north pole.

11   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Feb 14, 12:44pm  

Rew says

Russia pushing to influence our elections through media and actual "at the lever pull" voter fraud are not equivocal at all. False.

Hahahahahahahahaah. Rew, I'm sorry man. If you think Sputnik and RT is on a level of influence in America with CNN, WaPo, NYT, ABC, CBS, NBC, LA Times, Boston Globe, etc. etc. etc. please pass what you're smoking my way.

I know it's comforting, but Russia didn't influence Herb Pildewski of Lake Winaposaukee, Wisoconsin - who hasn't seen north of $10/hr since they closed the appliance factory back in 1998 when the machinery was sold to China - to vote for Trump after a lifetime of voting Democrat.

Change your party's proven failed policies and outreach. Loyalty is not everlasting.

12   zzyzzx   2017 Mar 7, 8:08am  

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/03/ohio_woman_sent_to_jail_for_fa.html

Ohio woman sent to jail for false voter registrations, including dead people

LISBON, Ohio -- A woman who pleaded guilty to falsely registering dozens of people to vote, including some who were dead, was sentenced Monday to six months in prison, reports say.

Rebecca Hammonds, 34, of East Liverpool, pleaded guilty last month to 13 felony counts of making a false registration and one felony count of election falsification, wcpo.com reports. All are fifth-degree felonies. She originally had faced 35 counts.

Five of the names on the false registrations were for deceased people.

According to wkbn.com, the fraudulent registrations occurred in the fall of 2015 in Columbiana County. Hammonds was a paid canvasser for the Ohio Organizing Collaborative.

Hammonds said she falsified the registrations because she was worried about losing her job if she didn't reach a quota set by the group, something the liberal-leaning organization denies.

"It was an hourly pay wage job and this defendant felt it was easier to sign up people falsely," Special Prosecutor Brian Deckert tells wkbn.com. "I think it just may have come down to human laziness."

Officials with the Columbiana County Board of Elections noticed discrepancies in the registrations, the Salem News reports. She was arrested after an investigation by the sheriff's department, the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation and the Ohio Attorney General's Office.

13   zzyzzx   2017 May 11, 9:32am  

http://vesselnews.io/report-trump-launch-voter-fraud-panel-today/

Trump To Launch Voter Fraud Panel Today

President Donald Trump is expected to sign an executive order Thursday forming a commission on voter fraud and elections, a senior administration adviser confirmed to CNN.

An action that Trump has discussed since the beginning of his administration, it will be spearheaded by Vice President Mike Pence and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach.

14   joeyjojojunior   2017 May 11, 9:33am  

"Ohio woman sent to jail for false voter registrations, including dead people"

Here's the thing. Dead people can't vote. Registering them makes no difference in the election totals.

15   bob2356   2017 May 11, 10:13am  

zzyzzx says

Ohio woman sent to jail for false voter registrations, including dead people

I couldn't find the part of the article that said how many voted. Can you point it out? You do know the title of the thread is voter fraud not registration fraud don't you?

17   Dan8267   2017 Aug 28, 12:47pm  

zzyzzx says

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/chicago_had_14000_more_votes_than_voters_in_2016_general_election.html


Chicago had 14,000 more votes than voters in 2016 general election



Fake news from a propaganda mill. Why do you believe this trash? Do you also believe The Inquirer that Trump is an alien unfrozen from area 51.
18   HEY YOU   2017 Aug 28, 1:18pm  

Just got off the phone with Putin,he said they hacked the election but no one would find the evidence,Dumb Americans!

" Do you also believe The Inquirer that Trump is an alien unfrozen from area 51."

Definitely a different life form.
19   Dan8267   2017 Aug 28, 1:20pm  

Well, that would ironically make Trump an illegal alien.
20   socal2   2017 Aug 28, 1:59pm  

Why are pasty white liberals so racist in thinking minorities are incapable of getting ID's or using computers?
www.youtube.com/embed/rrBxZGWCdgs
21   socal2   2017 Aug 28, 2:50pm  

Why must liberals keep our voting rules like a 3rd world banana republic?

European countries laugh at how crazy we are by not requiring basic ID to vote.
22   zzyzzx   2017 Sep 21, 10:10am  

Laughable:
24   joeyjojojunior   2017 Sep 21, 11:09am  

Care to provide a link to the source on that?
25   georgeliberte   2017 Sep 21, 3:04pm  

Based on what evidence is there that there were more voters than eligible citizens? First off, I have never seen 100% of eligible to vote citizens registered to vote. Sadly many people neglect this civic duty. The problem is to few and not too many people registering and voting. I have worked as a roving inspector in Solano County for 11 years and he numbers are never askew. Now it is possible that more registration forms were received than total number of voters because some people fill out more than one registration form, but still can only vote once. An example is an absentee voter who fails to bring the absentee ballot and wants to vote at their precinct. I would have the precinct inspector give them a registration form so they will be registered at that precinct next time. They could then vote a provisional ballot that might count if their absentee ballot never shows up. Some may later decide to reregister as absentee voters again. But they only have one vote count. Sometimes they insist on a regular ballot and will not vote provisional, they get to a regular ballot, but I explain it does not count. My experience is that in 11 years these insistent voters have always been Republican.
26   Dan8267   2017 Sep 21, 4:26pm  

zzyzzx says


What is laughable is your utter misrepresentation of the story. You are trying to make it out that illegal immigrants are committing voter fraud. The story does not say anything like that. In fact the story does not give any reason to believe that any voter fraud was committed.

Read the actual story from the Philadelphia Inquirer. Here's the Too Long, Didn't Read for the lazy.

1. Not a single person intended to illegally vote or illegally register to vote.
2. The shitty software asked all people renewing driver's licenses if they wanted to register to vote because the dumb asses programming the system forgot to check if the person was a U.S. citizen and simply assumed anyone with a driver's license is a citizen, which absolutely is not true.
3. The shitty software has since been corrected.
4. Those legal immigrants and residents who did register to vote thought they were eligible because the government ASKED them if they wanted to register to vote. Not all people are that smart and they trusted the government wasn't fucking up. But there is no fraud here even though a handful of people did cast invalid votes. It would be a far cry to call this criminal behavior because the government said it was OK for them to vote. There was no criminal intent.
5. Most of those legal immigrants later realized the state and asked the state to cancel their registration. These are law-abiding, honest people.
6. The 47 who cast illegal votes where 0.0065% of the voters in PA, which is utterly insignificant and less than miscounted ballets. And again, it was the government fucking up, not voter fraud. No crime was committed.
7. The poor immigrants tricked into registering to vote are the real victims because their applications to become citizens would most likely be rejected because they said yes when the government asked them to register to vote. NO legal immigrant would risk losing the ability to become a U.S. citizen or risk deportation to illegally register to vote. The upside is utterly insignificant and the risk is enormous. So the only victims in this story are the legal immigrants. They are the only persons with the right to be pissed off.

So everything that zzyzzx is trying to get you to think is bullshit. If the idea of the elections not properly reflecting the votes of U.S. citizens pisses you off, then you should be pissed off at
1. The War on Drugs being used to prevent citizens from voting for purely political reasons.
2. The call for voter ID laws intended to prevent citizens from voting for purely political reasons.
3. The shitty and inaccurate way we run elections when there are proven mathematically superior alternatives being used by most of Europe.

Those three things are what should piss you off about election fraud.

Here are the relevant quotes from the Philadelphia Inquirer. I tried to quote as little as possible, but so many details are important. It is really disgusting that anyone would try to represent this news article as stating that anyone is trying to commit voter fraud.

Commissioner Al Schmidt blamed that on what he said was a PennDot glitch that enabled legal permanent residents to register to vote at kiosks when they applied or renewed for driver’s licenses or registrations.

Only U.S. citizens are eligible to vote, but those in the country legally are able to obtain driver’s licenses in Pennsylvania.

It was unclear how many noncitizens might have registered to vote at PennDot offices statewide, or how many of them had cast ballots. A Pennsylvania Department of State review is underway, but the department said late Wednesday it had records indicating 1,160 people statewide since 1972 had requested cancellation of their voter registrations because they were not citizens.

Schmidt noted that fraud requires a knowing intent by a voter ineligible to register or cast a ballot.

“All voter fraud is an irregularity; not all voter irregularities are fraud,” Schmidt said, adding that the registrations and votes were still illegal. “Regardless of the intent, the damage is still the same.”

Of the 317, Schmidt’s office has documented 220 — either through direct contact or via an attorney — who were registered to vote from 2006 to 2017. Forty-four of those people voted in one election while 46 voted in more than one election.

All of the 317 registrations have been canceled, Schmidt said.

No election for public office in the city during that time had a close enough margin that a result could have been changed by the number of improperly registered people voting, Schmidt said.

The largest number of votes by non-U.S. citizens in the city was 47 in the 2008 general election, in which Barack Obama was elected president. That was .0065 percent of the 718,025 votes cast in that race in Philadelphia.

The 220 people produced immigration documents to show they were eligible for driver’s licenses. Later in the process, the applicants were asked to check a box on an electronic kiosk if they also wanted to register to vote.

This is known as “motor-voter,” a federal law passed in 1993 that went into effect in 1995 to help encourage voter registration by pairing it with the process to obtain a driver’s license.
27   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Sep 21, 6:04pm  

If somebody can't arse themselves to show:

1. A government issued picture ID
2. Their SSN
3. A utility bill, bank statement, official college tuition bill, paycheck, etc. not more than 90 days old.
4. Naturalization Paperwork if needed.
5. All information cross checked. If the name or birthdate on the SSN does not match the driver's license or utility bill, they can vote - after they fix it with the Social Security Admin and/or DMV, showing proof of course.

They shouldn't be voting. Every legal citizen can prove this with ease. No adult should buy a single hamburger or 40 ounce until they have an SSN card and Federal or State-issued ID. IDs should be free. Voter Reg cards should be free. There should be a picture, DOB, name and SSN on Voter ID Cards. No bullshit about costs. Countries with a fifth of our GDP per capita have these for tens (some 100s) of millions of people.

It should be a federal law requiring states to note Visa Expiration Dates on Driver's Licenses, too, or no highway funds. State and Local Police should be mandatory reporters if they stop individuals with expired Visa dates on their driver's license- it would have stopped 9/11.

Literally almost every country in the world has police stop and detain visa overstayers.

Voter ID should be free but must prove citizenship. No honor system, no shortcuts for convenience.

If they are really eligible to vote, they will have these things.
28   Dan8267   2017 Sep 21, 9:01pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Every legal citizen can prove this with ease.


Not true. The homeless cannot. Try getting a driver's license without an address.

Also, many of those homeless are veterans. Voter ID laws have prevented veterans from voting. Are you OK with that?

A 90-Year-Old Iwo Jima Veteran Couldn't Vote in Scott Walker's Wisconsin
In her letter, Bradley said her uncle had fought at Iwo Jima, the bloody World War II battle that was immortalized in a photo of the U.S. flag being raised on the tiny Pacific island. Tuesday marked the 71st anniversary of the 1945 flag raising. Bradley's uncle, Leo Olson of Reedsburg, tried to use his veterans ID card to vote in last week's primary for a seat on the state Supreme Court, but that form of identification can't be used under the state's voter ID law. Olson does not have a driver's license.

"He considers voting part of his patriotic duty," Bradley wrote to Walker. "Yet, last week this proud patriot of 90 years of age was embarrassed and confused when he went to the polls and was denied his right to vote. Then he presented his veterans administration card with his picture on it, he was told that the card was not listed as 'acceptable' proof of his identity. He responded: 'You mean veterans can't vote?'"


Are you OK with veterans not being allowed to exercise their right to vote after the sacrifices they made to protect the right to vote? The fact is that many veterans are not able to meet the conditions you just listed. Do you really believe that they do not deserve to be allowed to vote as a result?

The bottom line is that every single voter ID law ever proposed had the sole purpose of preventing legal votes, not illegal votes. Any system that prevented illegal votes but ensured that all legal votes would be counted would be strongly opposed by those sponsoring voter ID laws because such systems would increase voter turnout.

And the case I referenced is hardly unique.
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-black-man-brought-3-forms-of-id-to-the-polls-in-wisconsin-he-still-couldnt-vote/
isconsin Governor Scott Walker said his state’s strict new voter-ID requirement worked “just fine” in the April 5 primary, but thousands of Wisconsinites were unable to cast a ballot because of the new law. One of them was Eddie Lee Holloway Jr.

Holloway, a 58-year-old African-American man, moved from Illinois to Wisconsin in 2008 and voted without problems, until Wisconsin passed its voter-ID law in 2011. “I never miss voting,” he said. He brought his expired Illinois photo ID, birth certificate, and Social Security card to get a photo ID for voting, but the DMV in Milwaukee rejected his application because the name on his birth certificate read “Eddie Junior Holloway,” the result of a clerical error when it was issued.


Some fucking clerk makes a data-entry error and a person can't vote. That's just wrong.
29   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Sep 21, 9:21pm  

Dan8267 says
Are you OK with veterans not being allowed to exercise their right to vote after the sacrifices they made to protect the right to vote? The fact is that many veterans are not able to meet the conditions you just listed. Do you really believe that they do not deserve to be allowed to vote as a result?


People in nursing homes can vote. In some states, people in prison or jail can vote. Homeless people can certainly vote if they have their paperwork.

If Wisconsin won't accept VA Cards, that's Wisconsin's fault. If the state issued the Voter ID card I propose, this would have never happened. That's why we need this Blue Sky'd or Federal Law that sets minimum standards for voting. It also gets people off their ass to fix their records.

I don't want people who can't get up off their arse to collect some paperwork to vote. It's voting for the leadership of the country. It's not picking up a dog license.

Dan8267 says
Some fucking clerk makes a data-entry error and a person can't vote. That's just wrong.


And it never came up in the 40 years the 58-year old guy was a legal adult, and he never fixed it? C'mon. He should have had that fixed when he was in Army. The Records People and the JAGs would've helped him fix it for free and got it done fast. The VA would also have helped. So would ANY Vet's Organization if he needed help or was indigent.

Vets of all people should know about having their records in order.
30   anonymous   2017 Sep 21, 9:51pm  

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Voter ID and basic ID should be free.


Yet voter ID laws never provide for this.
31   Dan8267   2017 Sep 21, 10:00pm  

The bottom line is that plenty of U.S. citizens have been wrongfully denied the right to vote. Far more so than non-citizens voting illegally. Furthermore, there is absolutely no reason to believe that any voter ID law proposed would have stopped a single illegal ballot. What is not in question is that hundreds of thousands of citizens would have been denied the right to vote if such laws were enacted. It's not a good trade off by any formula.

I also don't buy the right that a citizen should have to earn the right to vote by jumping through some hoop. Voting is a right, not a privilege. You shouldn't have to take care of something to have that right. Furthermore, if not being denied the right to vote was so easily in people's power, then so many would not have been denied that right.

As for the person with the wrong placement of Jr., why would he have even thought that such a mistake would cost him his right to vote? And how much of a pain in the ass and cost would it be to get the mistake corrected? Exactly what actions would he have had to taken to get the mistake corrected, and how can you have any certainty such actions would have been effective? Getting even trivial mistakes that are obviously mistakes corrected is damn near impossible with any bureaucracy. Think of all the people declared dead who can't convince the government to stop telling people they are dead and denying them their rights, their social security checks, etc. Think about the men who have proved they are not the father of the children they have to pay child support for, but the courts say "fuck you, too late".

Finally, any ID for which a person has to pay, and that includes driver's licenses, is by definition a poll tax. The homeless simply cannot pay poll taxes, not even a $10 driver's license fee. Furthermore, such taxes are Unconstitutional.

The entire intent of voter ID laws is suppressing legal votes. It would be trivial and cheap to provide publicly funded, unforgeable, bio-metric national ID cards without denying a single right to vote. But such a national ID would defeat the entire purpose of those voter ID laws.

Furthermore, such IDs would prevent uncover cops from assuming false identities. Neither the politicians nor law enforcement would allow such a system.

But I have one final question. How many citizens would you accept being wrongly denied the right to vote in order to permanently stop all fraudulent votes? Express your answer in terms of N, the total number of fraudulent votes.
33   Shaman   2017 Oct 24, 9:11am  

Dan8267 says
. citizens have been wrongfully denied the right to vote


If they’re too dumb and indigent to manage to get an ID, they’re too dumb to manage an informed decision in an election. And thus they don’t and shouldn’t count. So whatever that number is.
37   anonymous   2018 Jul 3, 3:55pm  

This topic is hilarious. No gov't issued ID to vote? Are you kidding me? And the Left thinks voter fraud isn't happening lol. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with how the Left justifies this shit. I'm embarrassed to be human.
38   anonymous   2018 Jul 3, 4:22pm  

Quigley says
Dan8267 says
. citizens have been wrongfully denied the right to vote


If they’re too dumb and indigent to manage to get an ID, they’re too dumb to manage an informed decision in an election. And thus they don’t and shouldn’t count. So whatever that number is.
Exactly! Let's not have IDs to drive cars or fly in a plane. Aren't we denying citizens the right to drive or fly? The Left's argument on this is comical
39   anonymous   2018 Jul 4, 7:37am  

RafiMaas says
PrivilegedtobeWhite says
This topic is hilarious. No gov't issued ID to vote? Are you kidding me? And the Left thinks voter fraud isn't happening lol. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with how the Left justifies this shit. I'm embarrassed to be human.


So if I'm going to go through the trouble of committing voter fruad why not go through the trouble of getting a fake ID? How does making people providing an ID stop people from providing a fake ID?
Because going through the trouble of creating a fake ID is easier than just showing up without a real ID and voting? WTF?
40   MisdemeanorRebel   2018 Jul 4, 12:42pm  

PrivilegedtobeWhite says
This topic is hilarious. No gov't issued ID to vote? Are you kidding me? And the Left thinks voter fraud isn't happening lol. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with how the Left justifies this shit. I'm embarrassed to be human.


It's just like the Casino scene when Robert Dino's character is told by the teamster how you can work in Las Vegas Gaming without ever being approved by the Commission.

You gotta show your ID for everything from banking to shopping with a credit card to cashing checks. But apparently voting requires no ID.

"It's so expensive", but India and Mexico have no problem printing photo ID Cards.

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