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Report: Stopping Only Nine Percent of Illegal Alien Border Crossers Would Pay for Trumps Border Wall

By indigenous following x   2017 Feb 17, 9:43am 6,442 views   29 comments   watch   nsfw   quote     share    


http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/16/report-stopping-only-nine-percent-of-illegal-alien-border-crossers-would-pay-for-trumps-border-wall/

If President Donald Trump’s promised border wall stops only a small fraction of illegal aliens from coming into the U.S., it would save the U.S.

1   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 17, 10:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Of course the real two fer is to stop subsidizing them.

2   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Feb 18, 2:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Did they calculate a net present value, or are they comparing costs of today with costs of 40 years down the line? Did they use data based solely on education, and ignore the fact that migrants are self selected self starters?

3   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 4:17am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

YesYNot says

migrants are self selected self starters?

Actually they are the ones who are not self starters. The ones that are reach the middle class in Mexico.

4   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Feb 18, 8:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote   flag        

Did they factor in the ones whose descendants become citizens and pay taxes out into eternity, not even to mention taxes paid by those coming in, that pay payroll taxes etc before and after they are granted amnesty ?

Brietbart. Lol.

5   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 11:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

Did they factor in the ones whose descendants become citizens and pay taxes out into eternity, not even to mention taxes paid by those coming in, that pay payroll taxes etc before and after they are granted amnesty ?

Probably.

But:

"Key Findings

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality
Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury."

http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers

6   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 12:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

They also did not marcus says

Did they factor in the ones whose descendants become citizens and pay taxes out into eternity, not even to mention taxes paid by those coming in, that pay payroll taxes etc before and after they are granted amnesty ?

Also consider this:

"The report examines the likely consequences if an amnesty for the illegal alien population were adopted similar to the one adopted in 1986. The report notes that while tax collections from the illegal alien population would likely increase only marginally, the new legal status would make them eligible for receiving Social Security retirement benefits that would further jeopardize the future of the already shaky system. An amnesty would also result in this large population of illegal aliens becoming eligible for numerous social assistance programs available for low-income populations for which they are not now eligible. The overall result would, therefore, be an accentuation of the already enormous fiscal burden."

Not to mention the section 8 housing that 100 of thousands if not millions receive in Calif alone. That makes your annual housing cost very low, so they can decimate the trades.

WIC or SNAP are received by all. Mexicans use false names for everything and surely get around any laws in these areas such as voting.

The medical that they go over in the report is laughable. A friend of mine told me one of his workers came to the US years ago and received 50k worth of medical treatment, after which he went back to Mexico without paying a dime. To which my friend was exasperated, the worker said hey I don't make the rules. We have Ronald Reagan to thank for that one. Who says the poor don't have medical care?

7   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 12:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

9% of the people who cross on foot/land wouldn't pay for the wall at all, meaning the wall isn't 'self justifying'. I'm pro strong border, but an actual wall "end-to-end" is asinine, as all the border enforcement administration officials have repeatedly told Trump admin. A "wall", or talk of one, is very symbolic, simple, easily repeatable as a narrative and 'feels' like a 'common sense' solution to what is actually a much more complex problem.

Most "bad hombres" and drugs don't cross the land border at all.

indigenous says

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

All the math around this issue, showing it as a gain or a negative (either side), is imprecise and suspect. This is a lies, damn lies, and statistics, type problem. Let me illustrate ...

150 billion in estimated economic gain from illegal immigration/labor (wikipedia source), subtracted by 113 billion in service expenditures (your quote), is a net gain of 37 billion.
9% (the amount we want to stop) of +37 is roughly +3 billion. Add in the estimated cost for the wall (around 25 billion) and we get a net cost of 28 billion for the wall.

Can the southern border be strengthened? Yes. Should it be? Yes.
Build a 25 billion dollar physical wall, because we think it will pay for itself? No.

Most illegals come in by air via legal entry.

But what about the drugs? You might stop some drug trade, but, the cartels are tunneling, flinging (yes literally: catapults & air cannons), using airplanes, boats, and even subs, to bring the majority of drugs across the border.

The most modern and advanced secure borders today are relying much less on physical barriers and much more on technology. Without airspace and waterways figured in it is no solution at all.

8   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 9:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew says

150 billion in estimated economic gain from illegal immigration/labor (wikipedia source)

Economic gain to me means sales. Sales have a what 25% labor factor. Or a 37.5 billion dollar figure minus that 113 billion number.

Or you could say that that 150 billion dollar figure had a net profit of what 2% in this field, minus that 113 billion number.

I see what you mean about the damn lies, statistics thing...

9   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 11:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

I wonder what the lifetime cost of a Walmart employee is?

Such as?

10   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 11:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

What are those costs anyways... Such as?

Read the article

11   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 18, 11:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Ironman says

Did you read the article at the OP?

I read enough to see who wrote the study ... "The Center for Immigration Studies". lol

If you aren't questioning Breitbart's credibility, there really isn't much more to say. That is essentially state run media, cheerleading, at this point. It's about 10 notches farther up Trump's butt than Fox news is. I'm not saying there isn't bias in everything, but there are far more centrist and news worthy sources out there.

Ironman, when Trump leaves smoking craters behind him, are you going to run to "it was Obama's fault"? What's your exit strategy?

You know whose fault I think it really will be? Take a guess. :)

12   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 12:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

When measured over a period of 10 years or more, the impact of immigration on the wages of native-born workers overall is very small.

Anecdotally I can state that that is a specious statement as in the trades have been taken over by them, gardening services, etc

13   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 12:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

Since 2009, the unauthorized immigrant population has remained stable, with about 300,000 to 400,000 new unauthorized immigrants arriving each year and about the same number leaving.

WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE! Kill em! Kick em out!

14   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 12:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew says

Since 2009, the unauthorized immigrant population has remained stable, with about 300,000 to 400,000 new unauthorized immigrants arriving each year and about the same number leaving.

Right up until the construction industry starts up again which it is.

15   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 12:25am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

Immigration has an overall positive impact on long-run economic growth in the U.S.

Skilled immigrants do, the ones that come in on H-1B visas, not the low skilled ones.

16   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 12:39am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

the construction industry

If it is infrastructure, as Trump is promising, are you saying the government/contractors will use undocumented workers? That would be classic. Like a knock off MAGA hat from China. ;)

indigenous says

Anecdotally I can state that that is a specious statement as in the trades have been taken over by them, gardening services, etc

Anecdotally I can state that all Trump supporters are conspiracy nuts with bad judgement as to what is factual. Talked with one today in the park while our kids played. My favorite question of his: "What are we going to do about the good Muslims that are here?" I know, I know. Maybe not quite a die-hard Trumpian with a question like that. Good Muslims? Whoever heard of any such thing? (smirk)

He told me divers off the coast of California, were part of a drilling operation which went deep, and broke through 'something'. One diver was killed by a mysterious creature with claws. It later attacked a ship and killed 9. The navy released 11 guard dolphins in the water armed with poison injecting syringes on their rostrum. 9 came back, all signaling they got their intended target, and two were subsequently put down due to wounds. Later a prehistoric creature of some sort was recovered in fishing nets. He advised me to find it on the internet and read up. (shaking head ... no no no)

Totally nice guy though. Hope I meet up with him and his kid again. He had volumes to say on Saudi Arabia conspiracy theories as well.

We better start teaching better civics and literacy fast in America.

Come on DeVos! Don't let us down! (smile)

17   Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 1:35am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Obama and Zuckerberg seem to think that walls will keep out the undesirables... from their own properties. When it comes to letting them stroll over into our neighborhoods, they suddenly become wall atheists!

18   MrEd   ignore (1)   2017 Feb 19, 5:24am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

= your presidential puppeteer.
Thats a word that must be taken seriously.

marcus says

Brietbart. Lol.

19   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 7:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Rew and PCBGyver

Since you have wandered off the subject, I will assume you are out of arguments.

The OP has a point. There is a net cost to low skilled immigrants no matter what flavor or what stories they tell.

Eventually they will assimilate, the question is assimilate into what kind of culture. Or will they assimilate faster than the FUBAR presidents like Obama and Bush fuck it up. Trump is a breath of fresh air.

Another thing is that the US would be wise to slow down immigration to allow assimilation.

Ostensibly the ones coming in by air would at least be smart enough to get a passport, which is a test that would indicate they are less likely to be a drain on the economy.

20   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 8:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

How about the Muslims illegaly crossing the Canadian border? Isn't that the ones that we really need to worry about.

Economically the Mexicans are more of a problem by sheer numbers. If this was Germany I would agree with you.

21   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 9:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

Pretty sure 9-11 and the BS war that followed has cost us a pretty penny. Much more than illegal immigrants

You are conflating a phony war with 9-11, no sale

PCGyver says

If the problems you speak of by the Mexicans is lower prices in the produce section then maybe you have a point.

How much lower if you take away subsidies?

22   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 9:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

I would say this chart has something to do with it, and the chart will change when housing gets going again

23   carrieon   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 9:49am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

If President Donald Trump’s promised border wall stops only a small fraction of illegal aliens from coming into the U.S., it would save the U.S.

Comments 1-38 of 38     Last »

If benefits were cut off from illegal aliens, 90% would self-deport. Something to consider before building a wall.

24   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 11:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

That is funny so Obama had taken care of the problem yet Trump campaign on an idea that had already been taken care of.

It has nothing to do with the Prez, it will change again when housing construction picks up

25   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 12:28pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

Why will housing construction pick up?

Demographics

26   marcus   ignore (10)   2017 Feb 19, 12:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

indigenous says

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury."

You apparently don't know how payroll taxes work. (social security). What about all the money these immigrants and their descendants spend in the economy, what about that 50K of government medical care that guy in your example didn't deserve, where does that money go ? ( I know it comes from the government, but where does it go ?)

This analysis is beyond stupid. These people have children who become citizens that pay taxes forever. Is the real issue that in the future there won't be nearly enough jobs where people can contribute more than they take out of the economy ?

I guess if the plan is to do away with decent public schools, and treat workers like crap, maybe you're right, immigrants are a drain. But even in that situation, don't the plutocrats and corporations need consumers ? You know, so that their descendant's stock portfolios can grow ?

27   MMR   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 2:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

PCGyver says

indigenous says

the ones that come in on H-1B visas

Lol I've worked with some H-1B's and while some are quite skilled they aren't all skilled. Well maybe the others are skilled in the art of BS.

Also there are many other immigrant not just illegal and H-1B

Furthermore immigrant all of them put together have a net positive impact.

Tech workers with non-technical degrees who learn development in vocational schools should absolutely not be given h1-b visas

28   MMR   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 2:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

marcus says

I guess if the plan is to do away with decent public schools, and treat workers like crap, maybe you're right, immigrants are a drain

H1-b stem classes high school teachers are certainly a "drain". Is that why you are not in favor of them?

29   indigenous   ignore (0)   2017 Feb 19, 4:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

marcus says

You apparently don't know how payroll taxes work. (social security).

As you stated in the article most get paid in cash and the ones that don't claim 8 dependents so get the withholding back.

marcus says

What about all the money these immigrants and their descendants spend in the economy, what about that 50K of government medical care that guy in your example didn't deserve, where does that money go ? ( I know it comes from the government, but where does it go ?)

Where does the corporate welfare go? Wherever it goes it is subsidized and a drain on the economy because it does not reflect true value.

marcus says

This analysis is beyond stupid. These people have children who become citizens that pay taxes forever. Is the real issue that in the future there won't be nearly enough jobs where people can contribute more than they take out of the economy ?

That's fine in the future but it certainly does not bode well for a school budget that costs what 10k per student and the low wage earner doesn't pay anywhere near that in taxes.

Also those children get indoctrinated into an entitlement culture and abandon whatever work ethic their parents had.


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