patrick.net

zzyzzx says

Stupid kid should not have resisted arrest.

Exactly...... resist arrest and ignore the requests of the cops, and you SHOULD get your ass kicked!

Next!

Pretty obvious the brat was resisting arrest. Serve him right.

4

NuttBoxer 2017 Mar 2, 11:06am

zzyzzx says

Stupid kid should not have resisted arrest.

Exactly...... resist arrest and ignore the requests of the cops, and you SHOULD get your ass kicked!

Pretty obvious the brat was resisting arrest. Serve him right.

Now wait a minute, HOLD ON! Did this kid punch anyone? Did he attempt to attack the cops? NO! But according to the reasoning of the three stooges, if you don't respect my authoritae, I have the right to assault you. You would all fit in very well in Fascist Russia, Germany, or Cambodia of yore. Comply with my every fucking whim, or I can beat, mutilate, or kill your ass!!

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indigenous 2017 Mar 2, 12:49pm

You are thinking NAP?

This one is Meh

Even Rodney King was Meh because they didn't tell you that he led the police on a high speed chase for miles and then refused to get out of the car. IOW no context for his beating.

6

Rew 2017 Mar 2, 12:49pm

Kid enters a school yard altercation, a knife is pulled on him, he evades/retreats and is later sitting on curb as police assess scene. Knife wielder in custody.

Unclear from video if the police officer stated what they were doing, and why he was being cuffed and detained at this point.

What is horribly clear is that some verbal commands to this kid likely could have put them in a position where he could have been cuffed far more easily. I'm very curious of the before this horribly clumsy attempt to cuff takes place.

The kid shielding himself from blows being called assault is just bull shit. Spectrum of force here looks beyond wrong. Kid didn't need to have blows rained down on him like that. That's some seriously crap-tastic policing.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 12:50pm

Indig... I agree. More backstory needed, but sure doesn't appear justified as is.

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 12:51pm

Now wait a minute, HOLD ON! Did this kid punch anyone? Did he attempt to attack the cops? NO!

He resisted arrest. What more do you want?

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indigenous 2017 Mar 2, 1:03pm

This is light weight shit, Meh

10

RC2006 2017 Mar 2, 1:30pm

White cop should have just let black cop beat the shit out of him then this wouldn't be news.

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Ceffer 2017 Mar 2, 1:34pm

Wait until the lawsuit. 50 fathers will show up.

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NuttBoxer 2017 Mar 2, 1:36pm

He resisted arrest. What more do you want?

Comply with my every fucking whim, or I can beat, mutilate, or kill your ass!!

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NuttBoxer 2017 Mar 2, 1:38pm

in your world

Comply with my every fucking whim, or I can beat, mutilate, or kill your ass!!

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 4:31pm

But you'll still be Judge, Jury and Executioner without all the FACTS, because in your world, the cops are ALWAYS guilty!

Really? Noting as much backstory as I could glean from the article AND saying we needed to see what lead up to this, but expressed my current view? How was this any different?

Exactly...... resist arrest and ignore the requests of the cops, and you SHOULD get your ass kicked!

What requests were made? Did we really run out of verbal options here? Where the police under grave threat from a crying 16 year old on curb and he needed to be neutralized by force? Why is she attempting to cuff him in that position?

Words work too:
"I want you to calm down. For both your protection and mine, I want to put handcuffs on you. I know what has just happened is unexpected, and didn't go well. I need you to listen and obey me now, or it gets worse for both of us ... I'm trying to help you. Are you ready to cooperate? I'm going to make sure your parents are coming soon. Ok? Ok. Stand up. Turn around. Put your hands behind your back."

You're happy to have them just jump to force and beating though, right? (thumbs up) I'm sure as shit glad no police training I've ever seen, or been a part of, believes as you do.

When disagreeing with your belief that someone 'should get their ass-kicked' based on what little evidence/FACTS there are ... I'll happily be labeled judge/jury/executioner by you. That's pretty funny to me. :)

He resisted arrest. What more do you want?

When two full grown officers can't cuff a crying scared 16 year old without first beating him, I think more could be asked. Yes. My standards too high?

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 5:19pm

Which is probably zero.

A few sessions when I was 11. Some additional lethal force courses out in the desert of Oregon. A few ride alongs. Some verbal jujitsu courses.
But recently my only direct experiences are with my best friend from college, and my wife's closest friend in our hometown, as they are a LEO family (husband and wife).

What part of resisting arrest and fighting back don't you understand?

Where was the fighting? You mean the crouching and covering his head when receiving blows? You mean the pulling his arms back from a grab?

Do you know what took place before that video started? Do you know what was said to the kid before the cuffs came out?

No more than you do, the difference being I admitted so in my statements, and that you maintain you are not judge/jury/executioner simply because you hold a different point of view. Pretty funny.

because in your world, the cops are ALWAYS guilty!

You know nothing about what I feel about law enforcement. You assume so much, and are so far far wrong.

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 5:22pm

Strategist says

He resisted arrest. What more do you want?

When two full grown officers can't cuff a crying scared 16 year old without first beating him, I think more could be asked. Yes. My standards too high?

LOL. When my kid was 5 years old and threw a tantrum, it took 2 of us to hold him down. They are very slippery.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 5:25pm

LOL. When my kid was 5 years old and threw a tantrum, it took 2 of us to hold him down. They are very slippery.

Punches and elbow drops also found to be effective in that situation, or no?

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 5:31pm

Strategist says

LOL. When my kid was 5 years old and threw a tantrum, it took 2 of us to hold him down. They are very slippery.

Punches and elbow drops also found to be effective in that situation, or no?

I never smacked my kids. Giving time out to his favorite video games was a lot more affective.
The cops here are dealing with criminals. If punches are what it takes to subdue them, fine. A few extra punches would be fine with me too.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 5:32pm

The cops here are dealing with criminals. If punches are what it takes to subdue them, fine. A few extra punches would be fine with me too.

What grievous crime did this 16 year old commit? School yard fighting?

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 5:35pm

Strategist says

The cops here are dealing with criminals. If punches are what it takes to subdue them, fine. A few extra punches would be fine with me too.

What grievous crime did this 16 year old commit? School yard fighting?

I don't know. Why don't you tell me why he was resisting arrest?

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 5:43pm

Why didn't the kid just roll over on his stomach and stop resisting and let himself be cuffed. Did he do that??

Common sense tells me it's the guilty who always resist arrest.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 6:01pm

Why didn't the kid just roll over on his stomach and stop resisting and let himself be cuffed. Did he do that??

I'm not sure. Do you know?

Do you curl into a defensive ball and raise your hands to your head when being forced to the ground and struck in the head? In the video did you see repeated hitting for this defensive instinctual behavior?

Also, I just want to be clear, that the policing you want at your local high school would be the same? You want any child, of any current emotional state and capacity, beaten into submission if they fail to obey verbal orders and withdraw their hands from being grabbed and cuffed?

Common sense tells me it's the guilty who always resist arrest.

So, by Ironman logic, if anyone is critical of police actions seen they 'automatically believe all cops are in the wrong' at all times. (smirk)
By Strategist logic, anyone who is anything but fully complaint is obviously guilty. (double smirk)

I don't know. Why don't you tell me why he was resisting arrest?

I'm not sure. On the jury stand anything but testimony other than his own would be projection. Scared? Confused?
Do you know why the officers couldn't do anything else but push and hit the kid to get cuffs on him? Excessive?

I'm sure being a father of a once 5 year old, you found that you used all manner of verbal argument, probably far beyond the point of reason (or good at times), before you engaged in physicality with your son. Right?

Before altercation = unknown
Resisting = check (crying, verbally questioning/protest, withdrawing hands from being cuffed)
Excessive force = check (multiple continued strikes)

My read until anything further is provided. Your read?

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 6:10pm

I'm sure being a father of a once 5 year old, you found that you used all manner of verbal argument, probably far beyond the point of reason (or good at times), before you engaged in physicality with your son. Right?

Nope. Never hit my kids.

Before altercation = unknown

Check

Resisting = check (crying, verbally questioning/protest, withdrawing hands from being cuffed)

Check

Excessive force = check (multiple continued strikes)

Nope. No excessive force used.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 6:34pm

Strategist, you think the Baltimore jury is going to rule as you think here?

In my town, county, and the greater neighboring metro this looks pretty ironclad for excessive by our policing standards. Our juries would find officers at some fault here.

Ironman, 'I'm not sure' was in response to why he didn't comply. Do you know? Regardless of drivers liscenses, 16 is a juvenile, and 'shoulda known for his age' won't hold water. Weak narrative.

Police beat a kid, who was crying on the curb, as their best tool and tactic at the time for compliance. Strong narrative.

On a bad day, with really high threat, maybe my friends do the same. No way this is their level of standard policing though.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 6:38pm

I've said I don't know what took place before. Why does that matter to you though Ironman? You think the video alone justifies beating the kid into submission. I only think the prior actions could lessen the degree of excessive force charges. It probably also shows police frame of mind as well.

(Just how close before this was knife girl arrested? Under what circumstances? How much did male officer visually witness himself before reacting?)

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Strategist 2017 Mar 2, 6:47pm

Strategist, you think the Baltimore jury is going to rule as you think here?

Yes, I do.

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Shaman 2017 Mar 2, 7:48pm

I don't think it's too much to ask for police to have reasonable procedures for interacting with the public that do not include beating them down as first measure. There are bad cops out there, but the majority I have ever met were competent and didn't escalate a situation needlessly. This is why we need cops to police the cops. And we do have this, assuming they aren't compromised. Blaming all cops for the actions of a few bad apples isn't right either.
Don't teach kids to resist and talk back to the cops unless you want them beaten and killed.

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Rew 2017 Mar 2, 9:04pm

They can ramp it up to what ever level it takes to get their job done. If the perp wants to fight back, resist and put up a struggle, they deserve what ever physical response they get from the cops.

The police cannot 'ramp up' violence to whatever measure they feel like. Use of force must be justified. The badge isn't a license to abuse. That's the law.

First of all, I take AGE out of the equation

Neither our current rule of law, nor especially juries, remove age from equations.

It's clear you demonstrate little comprehension of the actual law itself, and probably have a poorer grasp of your actual rights. You are absolutely right though: for you specifically, you should be as compliant and demur as a mouse when you encounter law enforcement.