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illegal immigrants pay billions in taxes


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2017 Mar 2, 11:21am   9,129 views  43 comments

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http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/03/02/report-undocumented-immigrants-in-the-u-s-contribute-billions-in-local-and-state-taxes/

In this file photo, participants in the “Day Without Immigrants,” hold the Mexican flag, while Mexica Yolotl, a traditional Aztec group of Mexico-Americans dancers and drummers from the Twin Cities perform near the Minnesota State Capitol Thursday, Feb. 16, 2017, in St. Paul, Minn.

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1   zzyzzx   2017 Mar 2, 11:37am  

Whatever they pay in taxes is dwarfed in what we spend on them with respect to law enforcement, welfare, education, healthcare, and depressed wages for Americans.

2   Patrick   2017 Mar 2, 11:39am  

Cost-benefit analysis
The Feb 2011 report "The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on US Taxpayers" from the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a non-profit group that advocates limiting both legal and illegal immigration, "estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level. The study also estimates tax collections from illegal alien workers, both those in the above-ground economy and those in the underground economy. Those receipts [apx $13 billion] do not come close to the level of expenditures..."[60]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States#Cost-benefit_analysis

http://www.fairus.org/states/united-states

3   RC2006   2017 Mar 2, 11:52am  

Not to mention quality of life issues, ruined schools, hospitals, crime, no go zones, and so on.

4   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 2, 12:02pm  

Shock increases in the cost of Housing, esp. Affordable Housing.
Additional Education costs for teaching in another language.
That many are off the books and pay no payroll or income taxes.
That many remit money to Mexico and spend less on items subject to sales taxes.

5   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 2, 12:03pm  

Hard to believe that a group that advocates limiting both legal and illegal immigration would have come to such a conclusion.

6   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 2, 12:04pm  

joeyjojojunior says

Hard to believe that a group that advocates limiting both legal and illegal immigration would have come to such a conclusion.

Hard to believe that Corporate America doesn't want it's labor crushing, housing cost increasing gravy train subsidized by middle class taxpayers interfered with.

If there's a shortage of unskilled workers, where are the real wage gains for the unskilled due to this shortage?

Corporations:

* Safety regs? Noooooooooo
* Increased taxes? Nooooooo
* More Mat/Pat Leave? Noooooooo!!!
* Do away with carried interest? Nooooo
* Paid vacation minimums? Nooooooo
* Increased Benefits? Nooooooo
* Minimum salary floors? Nooooooo!!!!!
* More immigration? Yesssss! It's the only Human Rights, civilized thing to do! If you're not for more immigration, you're racist, sexist, and deplorable!

7   Patrick   2017 Mar 2, 12:34pm  

Jail for the employers of illegal immigrants? Yeeessssss!!!!

8   Y   2017 Mar 2, 12:37pm  

If illegals pay it direct to me I'll let the deportation chatter slide...

9   Strategist   2017 Mar 2, 12:52pm  

Ironman says

In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. This generated an average annual fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of around $14,387 per household. This cost had to be borne by U.S. taxpayers.

I ain't paying.

10   MMR   2017 Mar 2, 1:32pm  

joeyjojojunior says

Hard to believe that a group that advocates limiting both legal and illegal immigration would have come to such a conclusion

Are you saying the numbers are wrong? If so, where are the correct figures?

11   WookieMan   2017 Mar 2, 1:50pm  

Ironman says

Too late, you're already on the hook (and your kids too) :

www.youtube.com/embed/QYaH5nU1Ls0?rel=0

12   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 2, 1:55pm  

"Are you saying the numbers are wrong? If so, where are the correct figures?"

I'm saying there have been studies showing a wide range of impact, from positive to negative. For example:

"But what about the immense strain on social services and money spent on welfare for these law breakers? The Congressional Budget Office in 2007 answered this question in the following manner: “Over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use.” According to the New York Times, the chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund"

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

13   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 2, 2:21pm  

"Still think they pay in more than they use??"

I'm not sure. But the Congressional Budget Office does. And they are much better at adding and subtracting numbers than you are. Rest assured they accounted for the federal, state, and local taxes paid by aliens as well as the amount of SS paid.

14   Rew   2017 Mar 2, 3:43pm  

zzyzzx says

Whatever they pay in taxes is dwarfed in what we spend on them with respect to law enforcement, welfare, education, healthcare, and depressed wages for Americans.

Except for the fact that most economists see immigration, including illegal, as a large net gain to the US. They also strongly state that except for a tiny local blip, that subsides, their expulsion doesn't generate wage increases in low skilled labor markets.

When the Trump support based on job growth and fiscal responsibility blows back it's looking like it might be pretty epic. What will remain for Trump is national populism and fear based votes only. That's still probably a good 25% of the population, and they will be motivated/active voters.

Prediction: " ... need more time. It was so bad. Big problems. Couldn't be fixed fast." --- watch for statements and sentiments like this for mid year elections and 2020.

"Nobody knew healthcare could be so complicated." --- we are getting close with that. ;)

Edit: we are also seeing this fun blame game for Trump admin's poor showing being placed on the Dems not rolling over on cabinet confirmation process. Ha! :)

15   anonymous   2017 Mar 2, 8:23pm  

$12K-$14K per immigrant per year is how much of a drain they are on our economy. The data speaks for itself. Buh bye.

16   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 2, 8:58pm  

How much more money in the real economy if the top 20% who does things like install pools and stay at hotels all the time put more into the wages of working class people, instead of putting the difference they would pay into the stock market or bidding up the price of housing?

Back when Americans butchered the meat, plucked the chickens, made the radios, and fluffed the pillows (often unionized in major tourist/urban areas, also)... ordinary people still brought clothes, BBQ'd, and had radios.

The standard of living of the bottom 50% has been dropping, so we already have evidence that low wages != progress. Meanwhile, the greatest expansion in WORLD HISTORY happened under heavily unionized, big annual real wage increases for the ordinary American.

So let's stop digging, neoliberalism has failed; only the top 10-20% has benefited.

17   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 2, 9:08pm  

Now, if the difference is $9/hr as a Starbucks cashier and $9.50/hr working in a humid warehouse in the summer in Alabama, yeah, some people, esp. young girls, would prefer Starbucks.

But usually, the shitty hard jobs like ditch digging, and the just as crappy, dead-end jobs in retail or food service, the pay difference isn't all that great.

Also, big difference. You work at McD's in a sleepy Ohio Town, it's easy street. If you work at the MSG McDonalds or one at a Truck Stop on I-95, it's not that easy.

19   Rew   2017 Mar 2, 10:47pm  

MMR says

For his part, Donald trump has expressed interest increasing deficit by spending on infrastructure other than the wall

Significant increase to military, and a massive infrastructure spending proposal, and we are 6 weeks in.
(Isn't Ironman posting his little debt clock everywhere adorable? Poor thing.)

20   indigenous   2017 Mar 2, 11:29pm  

None of you mention the real problem. Cept Ironman.

The immigrant and the illegal immigrants are subdized.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/16/report-stopping-only-nine-percent-of-illegal-alien-border-crossers-would-pay-for-trumps-border-wall/

What this means is that they have taken over the trades.

21   anonymous   2017 Mar 3, 6:39am  

Even if there is benefit to employers, it still hurts tax revenue because it's off the books. It's a lose/lose for the rest of us honest taxpayers.

23   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 3, 7:17am  

"Wrong argument. Ditch diggers will get less than upper management because digging ditches requires very little skill and education. Not so with upper management. Look at it this way.......why doesn't the ditch digger work as an upper manager and make $250K?"

You may be too young for this movie, but it would be educational.. And the humor still works.

24   indigenous   2017 Mar 3, 7:24am  

Tat that film is not about management.

Why do you think that a board of director pays a manager big bucks? They are not stupid. e.g. Apple with Steve Jobs took off Sculley fired him they flounder, they hired him back and Apple skyrocketed.

25   indigenous   2017 Mar 3, 7:44am  

Ironman says

So tell me Rew, how did YOU (and the rest of the country) benefit from Obama tacking $10 TRILLION on to the national debt? What do you have to show for it (besides your sons having a MASSIVE tax bill in the future to pay it off)?

Actually that was mostly from entitlements, not to immigrants but to medicare and social security.

26   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 3, 8:10am  

"Why do you think that a board of director pays a manager big bucks? They are not stupid. e.g. Apple with Steve Jobs took off Sculley fired him they flounder, they hired him back and Apple skyrocketed."

Wasn't Jobs' replacement making big bucks also? Wasn't Scully making big bucks? Didn't seem to mean they were good.

27   indigenous   2017 Mar 3, 8:16am  

joeyjojojunior says

Wasn't Jobs' replacement making big bucks also? Wasn't Scully making big bucks? Didn't seem to mean they were good.

Yup, politics does enter into it.

But even Sculley had proven himself with Pepsi, IOW a CEO is not the buffoon your narrative portrays...

28   MMR   2017 Mar 3, 8:42am  

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

The "Americans are lazy" is Corporate Propaganda.

On an aggregate basis, I'm sure many people would jump at opportunity to make double the money, if the work is easy.

City girls from middle to upper middle class might not be raring at bit to kill chickens but guys might.

Girls from poorer families and/or agrarian places would probably do it.

Having said all that, Mexicans with murky legal status easily outwork the average bricktuckian and it isn't even close, especially when the job involves harder labor. Just an anecdote with 15 years of observation of my parents businesses

29   Dan8267   2017 Mar 3, 8:42am  

indigenous says

You trust Fox to get facts rights?!?!?!?! Fox is the mother of all fake news outlets.

30   Strategist   2017 Mar 3, 8:52am  

Dan8267 says

There are also economic impacts beyond tax revenues and expenditures. There's also the impact of immigration, legal or not, on housing. If you want high house prices and people living in dilapidated and tiny spaces, as most already home owners and landlords do, then increase immigration to the max. If you want the most house for your dollar, as anyone purchasing their first home or upgrading do, then minimize immigration.

I say that until housing, education, and medical care are affordable, we shouldn't be trying to increase the population of the U.S.

Immigration does not necessarily increase home prices. Not building enough increases home prices.
e.g. Japan has no immigration, but home prices are a lot more expensive than the US.

31   Dan8267   2017 Mar 3, 9:02am  

Strategist says

Not building enough increases home prices.

Wrong. Buildings are cheap to raise nowadays. It's the land that is expensive, and land is expensive for two reasons.
1. Land hording by the rich and landlords. The hording of land by landlords is possible because...
2. High population density.

Lower the population density and it's not profitable to be a landlord. People start owning at most one house, and that means people stop renting and start owning. And people own larger and better built houses. Construction also booms as dilapidated houses are replaced with new ones built better and to higher building codes. All those new home owners also drive the rest of the economy when they start being able to spend disposable income.

A stranglehold on the economy by one industry harms every other industry. Money spent on rent or mortgages is money not spent on the other 99.999999% of the economy. As such, high housing prices, high health care costs, and high college costs are very bad for the economy. A good economy has a very diverse set of goods and services that are exchanged. All economies dominated by a few goods or services are primitive and less productive.

Bonus. Problem 1 is solved with a Georgist land tax that increases exponentially with the total land owned.

32   Dan8267   2017 Mar 3, 10:03am  

rando says

Maybe you're a closet Georgist and just haven't realized it yet.

33   Patrick   2017 Mar 3, 11:56am  

Excellent.

34   anonymous   2017 Mar 3, 3:48pm  

Dan8267 says

indigenous says

You trust Fox to get facts rights?!?!?!?! Fox is the mother of all fake news outlets.

If it were CNN or MSNBC, would you believe it? Fact is, no liberal media will report this because it doesn't fit their narrative.

By the way, the data came from the Heritage Foundation, not Fox News.

35   missing   2017 Mar 3, 3:59pm  

Dan8267 says

Buildings are cheap to raise nowadays. It's the land that is expensive, and land is expensive for two reasons.

I don't think it is the land per se what is expensive. I see townhouses with no yards selling for $800K and above - not much less than houses (older but bigger) with nice lots.

I suspect the regulations make the development process expensive and the profit margins of the developers are fat too.

36   Dan8267   2017 Mar 3, 4:26pm  

just any guy says

If it were CNN or MSNBC, would you believe it?

Personally, I like to have multiple independent verification. That said, nothing on Fox can be at all trusted. You have to assume they are lying because that is the far most common case.

just any guy says

Fact is, no liberal media will report this because it doesn't fit their narrative.

You mean leftist media. There is no liberal media.

And as bad and political as MSNBC and CNN are, at least they don't outright lie about things. Fox News does.

just any guy says

By the way, the data came from the Heritage Foundation, not Fox News.

The Heritage Foundation is a propaganda machine. And even if it were not, Fox News would misreport information from legitimate sources as well.

Now I'm not saying that the statistic is wrong. After all, even a broken clock is right sometimes. However, I have absolutely no reason to believe it is in any way truthful or accurate. Call it the boy who cried wolf syndrome. When a group lies constantly, even the true things they say cannot be believed, and if no one else is saying that truth, then that truth is not accepted. There are practical costs to lying, namely you don't get believed even when the truth supports your position.

37   Dan8267   2017 Mar 3, 4:26pm  

FP says

I don't think it is the land per se what is expensive.

It is where I live.

38   missing   2017 Mar 3, 4:40pm  

Dan8267 says

It is where I live.

Boca Raton? So if you compare townhouses with similar size detached houses, how much is the difference?

39   Dan8267   2017 Mar 3, 4:50pm  

FP says

Boca Raton? So if you compare townhouses with similar size detached houses, how much is the difference?

Disregarding the whole country club factor, townhouses cost about half as much as detached houses and have about half as much land usage.

Both are way overpriced.

40   missing   2017 Mar 3, 5:32pm  

Dan8267 says

Disregarding the whole country club factor, townhouses cost about half as much as detached houses and have about half as much land usage.

I see. This confirms my observation about the SFBA - the numbers here are very different.

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