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House Intel Committee: Trump was Monitored, inadvertently


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2017 Mar 22, 11:21am   14,578 views  79 comments

by MisdemeanorRebel   ➕follow (12)   💰tip   ignore  

Members of the Donald Trump transition team, possibly including Trump himself, were under U.S. government surveillance following November’s presidential election, House Intelligence Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) told reporters Wednesday.

Nunes said the surveillance appeared to be legal but that he was concerned because it was not related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s meddling in the election and was widely disseminated across the intelligence community.

“I have seen intelligence reports that clearly show that the president-elect and his team were, I guess, at least monitored,” Nunes told reporters. “It looks to me like it was all legally collected, but it was essentially a lot of information on the president-elect and his transition team and what they were doing.”

Nunes said he is heading to the White House later Wednesday to brief Trump on what he has learned, which he said came from “sources who thought that we should know it.” He said he was trying to get more information by Friday from the FBI, CIA and NSA.

Nunes described the surveillance as most likely being “incidental collection.” This can occur when a person inside the United States communicates with a foreign target of U.S. surveillance. In such cases, the identities of U.S. citizens are supposed to be kept secret — but can be “unmasked” by intelligence officials under certain circumstances.

Nunes said his new information appears to show that additional members of the Trump transition team — beyond former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn — were unmasked. This means they were identified in U.S. intelligence reports.

He said the information that he had seen and was disseminated across the intelligence community appeared to him to have "little or no apparent intelligence value."


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/devin-nunes-donald-trump-surveillance-obama-236366

In other words, the Obama Admin - which in early January issued an EO spreading this intel as far and wide as possible, probably to maximize leaks - had POETUS transition team info. If you think they didn't leak or utilize it in some way, I have a bargain bridge for sale, cheap. Inquire within.

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1   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 22, 11:25am  

During his hyper-politicized testimony Monday, F.B.I. director James Comey -- who for some bizarre reason will publicly testify he is looking into Trump/Russia ties but won't say whether or not he is looking into all these felonious leaks -- also went to great pains to shoot down the idea that the Obama administration spied on Team Trump.

"No evidence," Comey told us.

"Ridiculous," the NSA said.

BUT….

As of right now, The BBC, The New York Times, Heat Street, The Guardian, and McClatchy continue to stand by their stories -- all of which were reported contemporaneously -- that the Obama administration not only requested and received a surveillance warrant (FISA) against Team Trump in October, but that the Obama White House itself was looking at intelligence based on actual "wiretaps."

For the record, "wiretaps" is not my word. It is the word used by The New York Times in its story and print headline. And The New York Times has not retracted its story.

So square this circle for me…

How is it that the very same national media crowing over the fact that Comey shot down Trump's claim of being spied on by the Obama administration, is the very same national media standing by its reports that -- wait for it, wait for it -- the Obama administration spied on Trump and/or his campaign/transition team?


http://www.dailywire.com/news/14617/post-comey-testimony-msm-still-stands-reports-john-nolte

2   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   2017 Mar 22, 11:50am  

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

In other words, the Obama Admin - which in early January issued an EO spreading this intel as far and wide as possible, probably to maximize leaks - had POETUS transition team info. If you think they didn't leak or utilize it in some way, I have a bargain bridge for sale, cheap. Inquire within.

So far, it seems that Trump and potentially Nunes have leaked it. However, it's hard to say, because Trump is being very hush hush about what it is exactly that he leaked.

What's new here? Is it that the volume of incidental surveillance due to Trump associated numerous contacts with foreigners under surveillance is larger than previously thought (but not reported)?

Is Trump's exit strategy here that there is no difference between talking to someone who has there wired tapped or having your wires tapped yourself? For those who don't understand why this is stupid, here is an analogy: If I have my 'tubes' tied and have sex with a fertile woman, there will be no baby. If I'm shooting good ones, but the woman has had her 'tubes' tied, there would also be no baby. The end result is the same. However there is a difference between having your tubes tied and your wife having her tubes tied. If you get recorded while talking to a gangster who had their wires tapped, you have not had your wires tapped.

3   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 22, 12:11pm  

What's new here is that Trump Transition Team stuff was captured, and that Obama disseminated it widely per his Jan 12 last minute EO to maximize the likelihood of leaks while maintaining plausible deniability, and indubitably shared it with political operatives before that, almost certainly for the purposes of Political Haymaking.

So the Patriot Act just got used by an outgoing, opposition party President to sabotage the incoming President. That's a major norm violation. Not that I expect the Party that embraced McCarthyism after warning about it for decades, that remained silent in the face of the Greatest Whistleblower Prosecutor in the History of the Century-old Espionage Act, that lied about payola to another Terror State in return for a treaty that is already being violated, and ignores the provable and factual connections between it's leadership and Foreign Sponsors of State Terror, and it's militant loyalists, to give a shit.

Only a fool believes the outgoing Administration, that received the reports of these intercepts that included information unrelated to any Trump Aide-Russian connection, that the House Committee ALSO received, had an Ethical Attack.

It explains very well where all the Leaks came from the Press used to attack Trump.

4   anonymous   2017 Mar 22, 1:22pm  

what's that line again?

trump is a dictator / obama is a constitutional scholar of high integrity

right.

5   epitaph   2017 Mar 22, 2:15pm  

I had a feeling this whole fiasco would end in some kind of plausible deniability bullshit. I think it's time to consider the PATRIOT act as not just unlawful surveillance on innocent civilians, but also a threat to homeland security.

7   Dan8267   2017 Mar 22, 2:25pm  

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

“It looks to me like it was all legally collected, but it was essentially a lot of information on the president-elect and his transition team and what they were doing.”

The real crime is that this is legal. Yet, when the Russians do the exact same thing for similar political reasons, it's an attack on democracy itself. What hypocrisy.

8   lostand confused   2017 Mar 22, 2:41pm  

Wow. I wonder how many of us are being monitored-this is the Stasi .

9   RWSGFY   2017 Mar 22, 3:15pm  

This is what happens when you kowtow with the enemy*.

*) Self-identification.

10   Patrick   2017 Mar 22, 4:49pm  

Note the loud and ringing silence about Saudi manipulation of US elections.

11   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 22, 4:56pm  

Dan8267 says

The real crime is that this is legal. Yet, when the Russians do the exact same thing for similar political reasons, it's an attack on democracy itself. What hypocrisy.

Yes.

The problem with the Patriot Act is according to the Government's own reporting, it's mostly used for Drug Wars. I think it's less than 1% for terrorism investigations. I believe approaching 10,000 uses/year for drugs, which is how many per day?!

12   bob2356   2017 Mar 22, 6:49pm  

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

It explains very well where all the Leaks came from the Press used to attack Trump.

Pretty funny how trump loved leaks until they went against him.

13   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 6:09am  

"What's new here is that Trump Transition Team stuff was captured, and that Obama disseminated it widely per his Jan 12 last minute EO to maximize the likelihood of leaks while maintaining plausible deniability, and indubitably shared it with political operatives before that, almost certainly for the purposes of Political Haymaking."

So, I'm assuming you have evidence of this, right? Mr. "I don't believe anything until I see hard evidence"?

It's amazing the confirmation bias that pat.net posters exhibit.

14   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 23, 9:18am  

bob2356 says

Pretty funny how trump loved leaks until they went against him.

Just like the Dems loved Wikileaks when it put out all the Iraq/Afganistan stuff against "W". Now they hate Wikileaks and Assange over the State Dept Cables (which were hilarious and showed the public vs. private policies in action, often 180 of what was said by politicians), Hillary, and Podesta leaks.

15   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 23, 9:27am  

One was done by an activist transparency group mostly located outside the USA, with no ties to Putin beyond Oligarch Assertions. It revealed many 180s between her mostly Campaign Related advisor conversations and her Public Rhetoric, both current and historical, useful for voters. Wikileaks leaked the Raw Emails for everybody to review.

The other was the result of the outbound opposition party administration spying using the Patriot Act for Political Purposes, then disseminating the summaries of it's content widely among the bureaucracy knowing it would leak. The leakers then gave the Oligarch Insider Media biased summaries, not any original transcripts or even some redacted ones.

16   Patrick   2017 Mar 23, 9:41am  

Summary: Trump was right, he was being spied on by the government.

Correct?

17   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 10:25am  

"Summary: Trump was right, he was being spied on by the government. Correct?"

No. There has been no evidence presented to show this. So it's, at best, unknown. But, most likely another lie from Trump.

see: confirmation bias

18   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 10:45am  

"it is ridiculous to think that no FBI agent acted for political reasons or took advantage of the opportunity."

I don't disagree with most of what you are saying, but to be clear--this spying ended 2 years before Trump even announced he was running for President.

19   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 1:00pm  

"Clearly an aspect of it is indeed true."

How? What evidence is there that it's true? There is more evidence that Trump and his associates were colluding with Russians than there is that Trump was spied on.

20   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 1:39pm  

"There is.... where?? (besides FAKE news on CNN, WaPo and NYT)"

Show me the evidence that Trump's communications were intercepted during or after the campaign first.

21   CBOEtrader   2017 Mar 23, 2:37pm  

joeyjojojunior says

"Clearly an aspect of it is indeed true."

How? What evidence is there that it's true? There is more evidence that Trump and his associates were colluding with Russians than there is that Trump was spied on.

Total nonsense. See confirmation bias (plus $10 billion/year in propaganda.)

Trump has been proven correct.

Zero evidence of Russia collusion.

#nevertrump 'ers keep redefining the definition of words to suggest trump is lying. Over and over and over again. Its sad to watch this many brains malfunction on CNN's cue. Amazing mental gymnastics happening to justify sticking your collective head in the sand.

22   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 23, 2:51pm  

And yet again, Trump Stumps the Media.

1. Trump Tweets Something
2. Gets "Fact Checked" by media as "totally false" to much derision and mockery. "Wiretapped by Obama the Savior? Never!! We got him this time!!!"
3. Claim turns out to be largely true ("Trump 'inadvertently' caught up" admits Intel Committee Member)
4. Media tries to hem and haw (Not "really" true"), find technicalities (A wiretap is only for phones!!!), attempt to cover up butthurt by covering Dem Response which is usually a conspiracy theory recycled from nutty neocon ex-MP Louise Mensch (whose own grown children poke fun at her)
YOU ARE HERE
5. Finds something else to attack Trump with.

All that's missing is somewhere between steps 4-5, Tapper or Madcow or somebody would get on TV and say "And if it hadn't been for those meddling Intel House Committee Members, we'd have gotten away with it this time."

Isn't there something wonderful when Middlemen lose control of the process?

23   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 3:28pm  

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

3. Claim turns out to be largely true ("Trump 'inadvertently' caught up" admits Intel Committee Member)

Bullshit. Please show me evidence of this.

24   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 3:51pm  

Ironman says

Are you paying attention in the COMPLETE thread, or just jumping in with your trolling at the end of it?

Complete thread. Did I miss where the evidence was shown? Please quote the appropriate post then.

25   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 23, 4:05pm  

Ironman says

Did you read the link in the OP??

Of course you didn't...

Sure did. No evidence there that I can see. Just one guy saying something that "may be" true. Pretty sure Lips spent months telling everyone how that doesn't constitute evidence.

26   Patrick   2017 Mar 23, 5:14pm  

Might the US liberal establishment collective freak-out about Russia be due to Saudi pressure?

https://www.rt.com/op-edge/syria-putin-bandar-saudi-263/

Everyone remembers the spectacular four-and-a-half hour meeting last August in Moscow between President Putin and Bandar Bush – aka Bandar bin Sultan, Saudi Arabia’s Director of National Intelligence.

Unfortunately, no, not everyone remembers that. I had not even heard of it.

Russia is being made out to be the bad guy because they are fucking with Saudi plans to control Syria via ISIS.

27   lostand confused   2017 Mar 23, 5:23pm  

If you are arguing nuances, you have lost. Russia, Russia, Russia, giant vagina to the White House!

28   CBOEtrader   2017 Mar 23, 6:24pm  

joeyjojojunior says

Ironman says

Did you read the link in the OP??

Of course you didn't...

Sure did. No evidence there that I can see.

Correction: you are choosing to ignore tangible evidence because it doesnt vibe with your biased fantasy. You, sir, are experiencing TARD.

Nunes was very clear about the specific nature of his claims. Nunes mentioned multiple FISA orders regarding Trump, as well as massive incidental collections of non-russia details of Team Trump. Perhaps the most telling word in his press conference was "raw intelligence". That is a reference to Obama's executive order passed Jan 3.

^^this is not the behavior of a vague liar. This is incredibly different than vaguely relating Trump to Russia (currently zero actual evidence), or even Russia to wikileaks.

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

And yet again, Trump Stumps the Media.

1. Trump Tweets Something

2. Gets "Fact Checked" by media as "totally false" to much derision and mockery. "Wiretapped by Obama the Savior? Never!! We got him this time!!!"

3. Claim turns out to be largely true ("Trump 'inadvertently' caught up" admits Intel Committee Member)

4. Media tries to hem and haw (Not "really" true"), find technicalities (A wiretap is only for phones!!!), attempt to cover up butthurt by covering Dem Response which is usually a conspiracy theory recycled from nutty neocon ex-MP Louise Mensch (whose own grown children poke fun at her)

YOU ARE HERE

5. Finds something else to attack Trump with.

All that's missing is somewhere between steps 4-5, Tapper or Madcow or somebody would get on TV and say "And if it hadn't been for those meddling Intel House Committee Members, we'd have gotten away with it this time."

Isn't there something wonderful when Middlemen lose control of the process?

This has been amazing to watch. It shows the power of propaganda.

29   CBOEtrader   2017 Mar 23, 6:26pm  

rando says

Russia is being made out to be the bad guy because they are fucking with Saudi plans to control Syria via ISIS.

This is the most likely theory.

30   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 23, 6:32pm  

rando says

Russia is being made out to be the bad guy because they are fucking with Saudi plans to control Syria via ISIS.

You got it. Neither Turkey nor the Shi'a are happy about a major new Nat Gas pipeline from the Gulf To Europe transiting via the Kurds or Assad (Russian Client).

And the Sauds, as a matter of public record, have all the insiders, a ton of lobbyist firms, politicians and political party, and most of the Middle Eastern "Scholars" and Think Tanks at US Universities on their payroll.

The real question is, how are we gonna stop Saudi Oil from hacking our next election?

31   FortWayne   2017 Mar 23, 6:53pm  

Whoever is in charge of NSA can spy on political enemies. Wouldn't put this past Obama.

32   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 23, 7:32pm  

@Dan8267
Looks like we got a battle between US (Counter-) Intelligence Agencies.

Republican congressional investigators expect a potential “smoking gun” establishing that the Obama administration spied on the Trump transition team, and possibly the president-elect himself, will be produced to the House Intelligence Committee this week, a source told Fox News.

Classified intelligence showing incidental collection of Trump team communications, purportedly seen by committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and described by him in vague terms at a bombshell Wednesday afternoon news conference, came from multiple sources, Capitol Hill sources told Fox News. The intelligence corroborated information about surveillance of the Trump team that was known to Nunes, sources said, even before President Trump accused his predecessor of having wiretapped him in a series of now-infamous tweets posted on March 4.

The intelligence is said to leave no doubt the Obama administration, in its closing days, was using the cover of legitimate surveillance on foreign targets to spy on President-elect Trump, according to sources.

The key to that conclusion is the unmasking of selected U.S. persons whose names appeared in the intelligence, the sources said, adding that the paper trail leaves no other plausible purpose for the unmasking other than to damage the incoming Trump administration.

Now the whopper:

The FBI hasn’t been responsive to the House Intelligence Committee’s request for documents, but the National Security Agency is expected to produce documents to the committee by Friday. The NSA document production is expected to produce more intelligence than Nunes has so far seen or described – including what one source described as a potential “smoking gun” establishing the spying.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/23/potential-smoking-gun-showing-obama-administration-spied-on-trump-team-source-says.html

Looks like we got competing agencies. The FBI won't do it, so the NSA will. Competition is good for Freedom and Transparency.

33   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 23, 7:37pm  

Similar Piece:


"What I've read seems to be some level of surveillance activity, perhaps legal, but I don't know that it's right and I don't know if the American people would be comfortable with what I've read," said Nunes, who uncovered the reports.

Nunes announced the committee would seek to determine who knew about the classified reports, why they were not disclosed to Congress, and who requested and authorized the disclosure of the Americans' identities in the reports.

The panel also will try to find out whether the intelligence community was ordered to spy on Trump associates and if laws or regulations were violated.

Nunes said he was alarmed by what he saw in several dozen intelligence reports that include transcripts of communications, including communications directly from Trump. The reports were based on a foreign electronic spying operation between November and January. They were revealed by an intelligence community insider who alerted Nunes.

Nunes said on CNN that after reading the reports he was confident the Obama White House and numerous agencies "had a pretty good idea of what President-elect Trump was up to and what his transition team was up to and who they were meeting with."

The full extent of the improper spying—including the improper unmasking of Americans whose identities were to be hidden in reports of foreign communications intercepts—is expected to be disclosed Friday, Nunes said.


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/intelligence-reports-reveal-improper-political-surveillance-trump-transition-team/

The last sentence is the cincher. Revealing the identity of Americans incidentally identified in a Foreign Intelligence report would be a major break with policy and could only be approved by the top NatSec officials. What did Obama know, and when did he know it?

34   Rew   2017 Mar 23, 11:04pm  

Show me where Obama ordered surveillance of Trump again? The government saw potential dealings and work for another sovereign state, within its ranks, and started investigating. Oh-gasp! The horror! The Trumpets love their conspiracies. (sigh)

We are about to find out Donnie. But I actually think you might quit when things turn really sour. After all you cannot 'lose' if you stop playing.

35   Dan8267   2017 Mar 23, 11:44pm  

WaPoIsHitler Lipsovitch says

@Dan8267

Looks like we got a battle between US (Counter-) Intelligence Agencies.

The more infighting the better. Empires almost always crumble from within.

36   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 24, 5:06am  

"The last sentence is the cincher. Revealing the identity of Americans incidentally identified in a Foreign Intelligence report would be a major break with policy and could only be approved by the top NatSec officials. What did Obama know, and when did he know it?"

Here's the last sentence:

"The full extent of the improper spying—including the improper unmasking of Americans whose identities were to be hidden in reports of foreign communications intercepts—is expected to be disclosed Friday, Nunes said."

So, there is no evidence then. All that sentence says is that evidence might be presented in the future.

37   MisdemeanorRebel   2017 Mar 24, 5:59am  

Rew says

Show me where Obama ordered surveillance of Trump again? The government saw potential dealings and work for another sovereign state, within its ranks, and started investigating. Oh-gasp! The horror! The Trumpets love their conspiracies. (sigh)

Nobody told Obama they were targeting Trump Associate's potential 'relationship' with Russian Banks.

"Oh yeah, let's not tell the President we're gonna open up an investigation into the Opposition Party's Presidential Nominee weeks before the election and run with the FISA request. That's not something the President would want to know about lest he deem it too risky or unnecessary. Let's just go to the FISC without his knowing."

Even if this unlikely scenario unfolded, the names not being redacted is exceptionally unusual, not Policy, and could only happen with highest level Nat Sec Official approval. And their dissemination widely across the bureaucracy of unredacted "accidential Americans swept up in a Foreign Intelligence gathering operation" is even more unusual. Unless you wanted names to leak by spreading it as far and wide as possible to keep the smear going and weaken the new Administration with rumors from "Unnamed Sources" with "Documents".

The only other way surveillance could have been ordered, other than under FISA, would be a direct order from POTUS.

joeyjojojunior says

So, there is no evidence then. All that sentence says is that evidence might be presented in the future.

The future being potentially hours, ie Friday Today as suggested in the article of post #49.

How many hours do I have to wait for all that evidence of Putin-Trump collusion? Looks like only the Intelligence Community, the Media, and the Democratic Party have been furiously digging for it for the past year. Is the proof coming out tomorrow, maybe Monday or Tuesday next week? Or is the sum total of the evidence still bupkis, with every lead a dead end. DESPITE going to the level of at least one Patriot Act Search covering Trump's Associates.

38   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 24, 6:55am  

"The future being potentially hours, ie Friday Today as suggested in the article of post #49."

Trump promised evidence was coming last week. How did that work out?

"How many hours do I have to wait for all that evidence of Putin-Trump collusion?"

According to Schiff--not too much longer. So, we have one guy (Schiff) saying there's evidence coming of Putin-Trump collusion and another guy (Nunes) saying that Obama spied on Trump. Not surprisingly, you, Patrick, and all the other Trumpkins only believe the guy who says what you want to hear.

39   joeyjojojunior   2017 Mar 24, 6:56am  

"DESPITE going to the level of at least one Patriot Act Search covering Trump's Associates."

evidence?

(edit: just kidding. We all know that evidence is something you don't have to provide. You just request it of anyone else)

40   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   2017 Mar 24, 9:02am  

IMO,
(1) someone told Trump that his and his associates names were in a report(s) and those names should have been redacted.
(2) He decided to call Obama sick and guilty of the biggest scandal since Watergate. Trump proceeded to refuse to tell anyone where he got his info.
(3) Then, he predicted new info would come out later. Then, his administration leaked the reports to it's surrogate Nunes who then leaked it to the media.
(4) Trump looks like an oracle to his loyal supporters. Meanwhile, everybody else thinks he's an incompetent asshole turning the country into a reality TV show. He hasn't been proven correct.
... You are here...
(5) Eventually (it may take years), the truth of this story will likely come out.

Meanwhile, the country is sidetracked by scandal. According to Trump and various republicans, we are now in a Constitutional crisis, because the President is the subject of an active criminal investigation*. It's an investigation into behavior that could be classified as Treason.

*They claimed this when they found out that HRC was under criminal investigation, and were clear about these ideas.

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