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March to the destruction of earth update: South pole not recovering

By iwog following x   2017 May 27, 11:52am 2,055 views   86 comments   watch   quote     share  

Denialists and even moderate global warming advocates have been hanging their hat on the idea that this year's stunning ice retreat at the South Pole was an anomaly and therefore we would return to a more normal pattern after ocean currents corrected the situation.

That hasn't happened.

It appears the ice pack at the South Pole is continuing to follow record lows never seen before and the ice sheet is over 1.5 million square kilometers smaller than the 2000s average. (yes you heard that right, the 2000s average) Something is very broken in the Southern hemisphere and it continues to get worse. Meanwhile all this additional open ocean continues to collect heat from the sun which will eventually find its way to the Northern hemisphere where temperature records will continue to get broken.

Here's a graph showing a normal anomalous low. This one is from 1997 and is turquoise in color. Notice how quickly it reverted back to the norm. Not this time. BTW the jagged blue line is a broken satellite and not real data.

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47 drBu   2017 Sep 9, 1:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
YesYNot says
co/h2/n2

H2 is a problem, and will be inefficient at least currently, if done by biomethods.
YesYNot says
then you know that trump proposed giant cuts across the board (like 30% at some agencies).

I do know this, as part of my research money is coming from one of agencies he proposed cutting. His idea was sunk by his own party. However, some reform is needed, as universities dip into research money (they take more than a third now+charge grad students tuition) and use it for hiring more VP's of research bureaucrats.
48 Dan8267   2017 Sep 9, 1:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
komputodo says
It seems that it's very important to you to convince everyone that climate change/ global warming is real.


It's seems very important to you that people accept that Islamic terrorism is real. Now realize that climate change and global warming are both real and the consequences even more dire than Islamic terrorism. More people lives are in danger and more of the economy is on the line. So, why do you not care about climate change? Why do you want nothing to be done about it? If it helps, pretend that climate change causes conversion to Islam. Maybe that will trigger your tribal stone age brain into recognizing the threat.

komputodo says
So let's imagine that you managed to do that. Then what?


Tax all pollution for 100% of the costs of cleaning up that pollution and repairing the damage caused by that pollution including
- the health costs of that pollution
- the increase in storm severity due to the pollution
- the failure of crops due to the pollution

Then let the free market do what free markets do, reallocate resources for maximum effeciency.

The market is not free until production and products that pollute are no longer subsidized by allowing them to pollute without penalty. Pollution is theft. It is literally the stealing of wealth from everyone to pay for the production costs of a few producers that server a relatively small set of consumers. It's no different from me breaking into your house, stealing your wife's jewelry, and melting it down to make jewelry I sell. Sure, it decreases my production costs and increases my profit margins, but only at an even greater expense to you. It's a net economic loss. You need to start realizing that pollution and climate change are also net economic loss even if you don't give a rat's ass about the people whose lives or homes are destroyed by climate change.

I've answered your question. Now answer mine. Do you truly believe in free markets?
49 komputodo   2017 Sep 9, 3:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
iwog says
7.5kw of solar panels on my roof and a CNG truck. Your efforts are pathetic compared to mine.


Pathetic? hmmm.....800 kwh in the summer, 8 gallons of gas per month and 9 m3 of water per month? What are your numbers? Would you say that my numbers are higher than average?
50 komputodo   2017 Sep 9, 3:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Dan8267 says
It's seems very important to you that people accept that Islamic terrorism is real.


LOL.....where did that come from? I've never mentioned islam or terrorism in all the years I've been on patnet. Please take your meds.
51 Dan8267   2017 Sep 9, 3:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
komputodo says

LOL.....where did that come from? I've never mentioned islam or terrorism in all the years I've been on patnet. Please take your meds.


I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you don't think Islamic terrorism is a hoax that doesn't exist. Was I wrong to assume your not completely batshit crazy?
52 iwog   2017 Sep 9, 5:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
komputodo says
iwog says
7.5kw of solar panels on my roof and a CNG truck. Your efforts are pathetic compared to mine.


Pathetic? hmmm.....800 kwh in the summer, 8 gallons of gas per month and 9 m3 of water per month? What are your numbers? Would you say that my numbers are higher than average?


I don't care at all. The only reason I posted it was you apparently care and wanted to compare ecological dick sizes. Mine is bigger!

I don't know about the water but I have negative kwh during the summer. My yearly net is almost zero and that's with having a pool pump on all the time.
53 BlueSardine   2017 Sep 9, 5:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
@Patrick, this is exactly why you need to bring back ban, or at least perma-ban RinDan8267 and all his alts. He adds nothing to a conversation and only seeks to derail each thread. What possible value is there in tolerating this troll?

Dan8267 says
komputodo says

LOL.....where did that come from? I've never mentioned islam or terrorism in all the years I've been on patnet. Please take your meds.


I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you don't think Islamic terrorism is a hoax that doesn't exist. Was I wrong to assume your not completely batshit crazy?
54 YesYNot   2017 Sep 9, 5:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
drBu says
Biking to work, living in a 1200 sq ft house, and not cooling house to 55F in summer or not heating to 85F in winter would be more helpful.
I agree with this. Most houses are too big to be efficient. Most people have to much crap. Biking would be good for people's mood and health as well as being cheaper and energy efficient. It's hard to switch due to infrastructure and state of mind.
55 Dan8267   2017 Sep 9, 5:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
BlueSardine says
RinDan8267 and all his alts.


Wow, Shrek, you really think Rin and I are the same person? You're even more batshit crazy then you were five years ago. I have zero alts. I've never used any alt, ever, on PatNet or any forum. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
56 komputodo   2017 Sep 9, 6:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
iwog says
I don't care at all. The only reason I posted it was you apparently care and wanted to compare ecological dick sizes. Mine is bigger!

I don't know about the water but I have negative kwh during the summer. My yearly net is almost zero and that's with having a pool pump on all the time.


Well there is the solution right in front of you...Just set up every household in the world with 7.5 kw solar panels and a CNG vehicle. Maybe even throw in a swimming pool.
57 iwog   2017 Sep 9, 6:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
komputodo says
Well there is the solution right in front of you...Just set up every household in the world with 7.5 kw solar panels and a CNG vehicle. Maybe even throw in a swimming pool.


That's not a solution. Part of the solution is electric cars which will ultimately be more reliable and much less expensive but fuck electric cars, am I right?

It's because of public attitudes and public ignorance of the global warming catastrophe that no solutions will work at this point. That's why I don't care. Burn whatever you want. Any efforts I make will be in the creation of some kind of an ark that can sustain my family into the next generation despite everything going to hell.
58 mell   2017 Sep 9, 7:15pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
Electric cars are already worse polluters than modern combustion engines, and HCCIs will blow them away. Hybrids and modern combustion engines are the way to go, not (fully) electric cars. Also combined car emissions usually pale against the emissions of the "few" large sea-tankers sailing the oceans. That would be a much better point to start.
59 BorderPatrol   2017 Sep 9, 7:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
and this had never happened before in 4.5 billion years of planet's history?
60 mell   2017 Sep 9, 7:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
BorderPatrol says
and this had never happened before in 4.5 billion years of planet's history?

Of course it has. The question is whether this time we are a significant enough part of it or not. Impossible to answer at this point.
61 iwog   2017 Sep 9, 8:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
mell says
Electric cars are already worse polluters than modern combustion engines


This is a lie, refuted a thousand times, but Mell is going to keep lying about it and then refuse to even support his opinion.

Par.

mell says
and HCCIs will blow them away.


This is unbelievably sad.
62 Patrick   2017 Sep 9, 9:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
The south pole is going to become a paradise.
63 iwog   2017 Sep 9, 9:51pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Patrick says
The south pole is going to become a paradise.


The South Pole melting would raise the sea level over 200 feet.

Almost all cities and much existing farmland will be under salt water.

66 anonymous   2017 Sep 13, 6:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Even if the average person decreases their environmental damage profile (EDP) by half, population will double how quickly?
67 komputodo   2017 Sep 13, 8:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
iwog says
It's because of public attitudes and public ignorance of the global warming catastrophe that no solutions will work at this point. That's why I don't care. Burn whatever you want.


Never seen a guy argue so much about a subject that he claims he doesn't care about.
68 iwog   2017 Sep 13, 9:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
komputodo says
Never seen a guy argue so much about a subject that he claims he doesn't care about.


1. Nothing I post is arguing. It's documenting the reality of a scientific fact. No climate science denier is capable of making an argument.
2. Those who haven't skull-fucked all the sense out of themselves need to know what is happening so they can prepare.
3. It's fascinating.
69 komputodo   2017 Sep 13, 11:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
iwog says
Any efforts I make will be in the creation of some kind of an ark that can sustain my family into the next generation despite everything going to hell.
iwog says
2. Those who haven't skull-fucked all the sense out of themselves need to know what is happening so they can prepare.


Maybe you could post a DIY video or at least the plans for building the ark.
70 Dan8267   2017 Sep 14, 9:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Shrek once again displaying the emotional maturity of a five-year-old.
71 iwog   2017 Sep 14, 10:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
komputodo says
Maybe you could post a DIY video or at least the plans for building the ark.


Probably going to be mountain property in California at this point. Above 5000 feet.
72 Tenpoundbass   2017 Sep 14, 10:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Nope all melted glacier ice goes right back into the ground. The Sea will never rise to the levels you Liberals mentally masturbate to.
If it were possible the sea level would be 30,000 feet deeper today with all of the rivers that dump into the ocean around the world.
73 Quigley   2017 Sep 14, 10:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
I'm not sure you understand the relationship between evaporation and precipitation capn m
74 iwog   2017 Sep 14, 10:35am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Tenpoundbass says
Nope all melted glacier ice goes right back into the ground. The Sea will never rise to the levels you Liberals mentally masturbate to.
If it were possible the sea level would be 30,000 feet deeper today with all of the rivers that dump into the ocean around the world.


Can you tell he's a Trump voter?
75 anonymous   2017 Sep 14, 8:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
iwog says
No climate science denier is capable of making an argument.


Oh they can make a BETTER argument that GW is a hoax. The problem is you're incapable of understand the true science because of the gallons of koolaid you've consumed.

There's a reason you alarmist had to change it from global warming to climate change. Once you figure out why that was done, you'll sleep better at night.
76 bob2356   2017 Sep 14, 8:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Tenpoundbass says
Nope all melted glacier ice goes right back into the ground.


Almost chocked laughing at this one. Never eat and read TPB at the same time. Yes of course all water goes back into the ground.
77 iwog   2017 Sep 14, 8:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
anonymous says
Oh they can make a BETTER argument that GW is a hoax. The problem is you're incapable of understand the true science because of the gallons of koolaid you've consumed.


Great null post. Next time you might want to include some of that brilliant science so I can address it.

anonymous says
There's a reason you alarmist had to change it from global warming to climate change.


That's right and the reason is that global warming doesn't necessarily mean it's always warmer. It can also get colder as more water vapor in the air means heavier snowfall or higher wind velocities push colder weather further south.

It was changed to try and prevent stupid people from saying "Lookie der!! It's COLD!! Global warming is a FRAUD!" but instead it just gave deniers another stupid reason to deny reality.
78 anonymous   2017 Sep 14, 10:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
iwog says
as more water vapor in the air means


means it was caused by evaporation . What causes evaporation? Is it CO2 or the heat from the sun?

Another hint, what is the largest greenhouse gas that traps heat? Here, I'll help you. Water vapor.

Your science class is now over.
79 BlueSardine   2017 Sep 15, 2:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
All the windex evaporating off all the windows...

anonymous says
what is the largest greenhouse gas that traps heat?
80 Onvacation   2017 Sep 15, 6:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
iwog says

It was changed to try and prevent stupid people from saying "Lookie der!! It's COLD!!

You can't stop stupid people and their claims.
81 YesYNot   2017 Sep 15, 6:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
anonymous says
What causes evaporation? Is it CO2 or the heat from the sun?


Heat. CO2 keeps more heat on the planet, and that extra heat evaporates more water. It really is that simple. If that is not painfully obvious to you, please stop trying to give science lessons. It's painful for others to watch.
82 Onvacation   2017 Sep 15, 6:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
YesYNot says
CO2 keeps more heat on the planet,

How much more? How much is caused by man? And what is the ideal temp on earth, a few degrees cooler, warmer?
Alarmists never answer these questions.
83 YesYNot   2017 Sep 15, 7:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Onvacation says
How much more?

Does this mean that you agree that it is more? Do you also agree that the argument that 'heat evaporates water' is just stating a painfully obvious fact that in no way disagrees with global warming theory?
84 iwog   2017 Sep 15, 9:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Onvacation says
How much more? How much is caused by man? And what is the ideal temp on earth, a few degrees cooler, warmer?
Alarmists never answer these questions.


New name, same old bullshit. Everything he's ever asked has been answered in glorious detail and now he's back pretending none of those conversations ever took place.

Politics and ideology aside, there's a striking difference between the QUALITY of normal people and climate change deniers. I have no doubt that the entire lot would be thrown out and banned from any college level debate group.
85 anonymous   2017 Sep 15, 11:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
YesYNot says
Heat. CO2 keeps more heat on the planet, and that extra heat evaporates more water.


What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2 versus water vapor?

What is the original source of this heat?
86 Entitlemented   2017 Sep 15, 12:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
We do need solutions to combat global warmings effects and low/no emissions propulsion means.

The US spends only $2.5B on Small Business R&D, and corporations dont frequently invest in long term R&D. We spend > $500B on legal fees and regulations. We have more people working for the Fed, State, and Local Government that working on R&D/Manufacturing by a factor of 2.

China is trying to go all electric, but the charger for the electric battery may be fuels.

We should have a Progressive Technology Alliance - top 3 items.

- Articial Volcanism for increased reflectance of atmopheric radiation. ~ $15B/Year
- H2 separation technologies. - $15B/Year
- Applied H2 for aircraft - $6B/Year
- Clean/Safe Nuclear and different isotope exploitation( China working on this) $20B/Year

We should have standardized legal care, modeled after Germany - where a litigant must first deposit 10% of the suite claims into escrow, and compliant is first reviewed by 2 Lawyers at a merit review board. The peril in this is what if someone bought off the lawyers on the merit review board. Lawyers fees should be capped, just as there is a cap in Fed Regs on Science and Engineers pay.

The US might be able to make progress on these earth saving technologies, but with our Political/Litigative/Lobbying mentality the US is malinvesting its resources on the distorted and pay to play system we have. We have a form of selective Bolshivism thanks mostly to the Politicians and Lawyers.

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