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Pole

By iwog following x   2017 May 27, 11:52am 3,664 views   69 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


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30   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 8:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
You didn't fix anything.

Dan was commenting about the reality of global warming and accurately pointing out that those who deny it are going to kill millions. You however are attempting to make a point about hypocrisy.

You may or may not have a point but it's not related to the fact of global warming or how ignorance is killing people.


It seems that it's very important to you to convince everyone that climate change/ global warming is real. So let's imagine that you managed to do that. Then what?
31   Ernie   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 9:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

TwoScoopsMcGee says
As long as it doesn't involving growing the feed stock using fertilizer made from byproducts of crude oil or phosphate rock mining ;)

Absolutely.
32   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 9, 9:12am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

drBu says
Concrete production, iron production, etc actually forms quite a lot of CO2.

Iron production is a specific case of smelting, which I discussed. Smelting uses carbon (metallurgical coke) to reduce ores, which are metals stored in an oxidized state. But we just don't make anywhere near enough iron or other metals to produce a significant amount of CO or CO2. The same goes for cement. Furthermore, if we cared enough about the environment, and had enough options, we would sequester these off-gases and store them. By the way, there are currently microbes that will efficiently turn those off-gases into ethanol and other chemicals. Commercial plants are being built as we speak.
33   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 9, 9:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

komputodo says
It seems that it's very important to you to convince everyone that climate change/ global warming is real. So let's imagine that you managed to do that. Then what?

Then get Republicans to stop fighting against CAFE standards, promoting coal, and trying to defund science. That would be a good start.
34   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 9:44am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

YesYNot says
Then get Republicans to stop fighting against CAFE standards, promoting coal, and trying to defund science. That would be a good start.


So your "good start" would be to try to get the govt to make cars and energy even more expensive, and give more money to studies? Sounds like just another "throw money at the problem" solution. The better solution would be to get people to change their habits.....LOL...good luck with that.
My household consumes 800 kwh a month of electricity in the hot summer months, 8 gallons of gas per month, 9 m3 of water and recycle grey water. I also have a small fix-it shop where I repair or upcycle things that would go to landfill. For example, I must have repaired 40 fans this summer and 20 microwave ovens among other things. I don't waste time trying to convince people about climate change. I just do my small part. What are you doing?
35   Ernie   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 10:42am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

YesYNot says
By the way, there are currently microbes that will efficiently turn those off-gases into ethanol and other chemicals.

I have not heard about efficient microbe use to produce ethanol from CO2. Is it the same old algae technology? I have not looked into that to see if it is efficient or if it is similar to bioethanol failure (bioethanol actually consumes more fossil fuels than is stored in it, despite the ridiculous claims for last 20 yrs).
With respect to CO2 sequestration and storage, I think it is a really bad idea and is inefficient. You end up consuming more fossil fuel to pump CO2 into ground where it will eventually seep out, thus screwing future generations. Biking to work, living in a 1200 sq ft house, and not cooling house to 55F in summer or not heating to 85F in winter would be more helpful.
36   Ernie   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 10:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

YesYNot says
trying to defund science

That is true only partially, and we can debate this at length. I am myself partially funded by Fed Gov (ca. 30% of research money), so I follow this closely.
R's try to defund only certain parts of science, some of which should be defunded as it is not science (identity politics crap), and some should not be defunded but should be de-ideologized and funded much more than they are now (such as climate science). D's push asinine requirements on science funding - identity crap where, for example, NSF funding is now ridiculously tied to "broader impacts" and not necessarily science itself. Basically, policies followed by D's change funding from competition of best research ideas to competition of whomever will have the most PC research team. This is extremely counterproductive.
37   iwog   ignore (3)   2017 Sep 9, 12:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

komputodo says
So your "good start" would be to try to get the govt to make cars and energy even more expensive, and give more money to studies? Sounds like just another "throw money at the problem" solution. The better solution would be to get people to change their habits.....LOL...good luck with that.


Everything you believe about this subject is wrong.

Electric cars are not more expensive than internal combustion cars. They are FAR FAR cheaper if you follow the technology development curve forward 100 years like gasoline cars have had to do.

They are much simpler mechanically, require less maintenance, no oil changes, and can be "fueled" at your home. Their core components are copper wiring and lithium batteries. The raw components in a battery pack cost pennies and will crash in price over time just like any other solid state device. (Lithium metal runs between $2000-$9000 per metric ton but will fall drastically with worldwide production) Finally the energy efficiency of electric vehicles is unmatched by any other fuel source. You can obtain power from anywhere including the sun.

komputodo says
I just do my small part. What are you doing?


7.5kw of solar panels on my roof and a CNG truck. Your efforts are pathetic compared to mine.
38   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 9, 1:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

drBu says

I have not heard about efficient microbe use to produce ethanol from CO2.
Those gasses are a mix of co/h2/n2, and co2. They can also be mixed with natural gas and used to fire a turbine. Energy value of some is too low to combust directly.
39   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 9, 1:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

drBu says
With respect to CO2 sequestration and storage, I think it is a really bad idea and is inefficient.

It is a bad idea at the scale of energy, but if the cost of co2 emissions is high enough, it could make sense for cement. Then again, algae could be used at small scale to convert co2 from cement manufacture, or FT if you are intent on that. drBu says
R's try to defund only certain parts of science, some of which should be defunded as it is not science (identity politics cra
then you know that trump proposed giant cuts across the board (like 30% at some agencies).
40   Ernie   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 1:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

YesYNot says
co/h2/n2

H2 is a problem, and will be inefficient at least currently, if done by biomethods.
YesYNot says
then you know that trump proposed giant cuts across the board (like 30% at some agencies).

I do know this, as part of my research money is coming from one of agencies he proposed cutting. His idea was sunk by his own party. However, some reform is needed, as universities dip into research money (they take more than a third now+charge grad students tuition) and use it for hiring more VP's of research bureaucrats.
41   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Sep 9, 1:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

komputodo says
It seems that it's very important to you to convince everyone that climate change/ global warming is real.


It's seems very important to you that people accept that Islamic terrorism is real. Now realize that climate change and global warming are both real and the consequences even more dire than Islamic terrorism. More people lives are in danger and more of the economy is on the line. So, why do you not care about climate change? Why do you want nothing to be done about it? If it helps, pretend that climate change causes conversion to Islam. Maybe that will trigger your tribal stone age brain into recognizing the threat.

komputodo says
So let's imagine that you managed to do that. Then what?


Tax all pollution for 100% of the costs of cleaning up that pollution and repairing the damage caused by that pollution including
- the health costs of that pollution
- the increase in storm severity due to the pollution
- the failure of crops due to the pollution

Then let the free market do what free markets do, reallocate resources for maximum effeciency.

The market is not free until production and products that pollute are no longer subsidized by allowing them to pollute without penalty. Pollution is theft. It is literally the stealing of wealth from everyone to pay for the production costs of a few producers that server a relatively small set of consumers. It's no different from me breaking into your house, stealing your wife's jewelry, and melting it down to make jewelry I sell. Sure, it decreases my production costs and increases my profit margins, but only at an even greater expense to you. It's a net economic loss. You need to start realizing that pollution and climate change are also net economic loss even if you don't give a rat's ass about the people whose lives or homes are destroyed by climate change.

I've answered your question. Now answer mine. Do you truly believe in free markets?
42   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 3:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
7.5kw of solar panels on my roof and a CNG truck. Your efforts are pathetic compared to mine.


Pathetic? hmmm.....800 kwh in the summer, 8 gallons of gas per month and 9 m3 of water per month? What are your numbers? Would you say that my numbers are higher than average?
43   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 3:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Dan8267 says
It's seems very important to you that people accept that Islamic terrorism is real.


LOL.....where did that come from? I've never mentioned islam or terrorism in all the years I've been on patnet. Please take your meds.
44   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Sep 9, 3:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

komputodo says

LOL.....where did that come from? I've never mentioned islam or terrorism in all the years I've been on patnet. Please take your meds.


I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you don't think Islamic terrorism is a hoax that doesn't exist. Was I wrong to assume your not completely batshit crazy?
45   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 9, 5:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

@Patrick, this is exactly why you need to bring back ban, or at least perma-ban RinDan8267 and all his alts. He adds nothing to a conversation and only seeks to derail each thread. What possible value is there in tolerating this troll?

Dan8267 says
komputodo says

LOL.....where did that come from? I've never mentioned islam or terrorism in all the years I've been on patnet. Please take your meds.


I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you don't think Islamic terrorism is a hoax that doesn't exist. Was I wrong to assume your not completely batshit crazy?
46   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 9, 5:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

drBu says
Biking to work, living in a 1200 sq ft house, and not cooling house to 55F in summer or not heating to 85F in winter would be more helpful.
I agree with this. Most houses are too big to be efficient. Most people have to much crap. Biking would be good for people's mood and health as well as being cheaper and energy efficient. It's hard to switch due to infrastructure and state of mind.
47   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Sep 9, 5:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)     quote      

BlueSardine says
RinDan8267 and all his alts.


Wow, Shrek, you really think Rin and I are the same person? You're even more batshit crazy then you were five years ago. I have zero alts. I've never used any alt, ever, on PatNet or any forum. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
48   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 6:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
I don't care at all. The only reason I posted it was you apparently care and wanted to compare ecological dick sizes. Mine is bigger!

I don't know about the water but I have negative kwh during the summer. My yearly net is almost zero and that's with having a pool pump on all the time.


Well there is the solution right in front of you...Just set up every household in the world with 7.5 kw solar panels and a CNG vehicle. Maybe even throw in a swimming pool.
49   mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 9, 7:15pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Electric cars are already worse polluters than modern combustion engines, and HCCIs will blow them away. Hybrids and modern combustion engines are the way to go, not (fully) electric cars. Also combined car emissions usually pale against the emissions of the "few" large sea-tankers sailing the oceans. That would be a much better point to start.
50   BorderPatrol   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 9, 7:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

and this had never happened before in 4.5 billion years of planet's history?
51   mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 9, 7:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BorderPatrol says
and this had never happened before in 4.5 billion years of planet's history?

Of course it has. The question is whether this time we are a significant enough part of it or not. Impossible to answer at this point.
52   Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 9, 9:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

The south pole is going to become a paradise.
54   anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 13, 6:59pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Even if the average person decreases their environmental damage profile (EDP) by half, population will double how quickly?
55   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 13, 8:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
It's because of public attitudes and public ignorance of the global warming catastrophe that no solutions will work at this point. That's why I don't care. Burn whatever you want.


Never seen a guy argue so much about a subject that he claims he doesn't care about.
56   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 13, 11:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Any efforts I make will be in the creation of some kind of an ark that can sustain my family into the next generation despite everything going to hell.
iwog says
2. Those who haven't skull-fucked all the sense out of themselves need to know what is happening so they can prepare.


Maybe you could post a DIY video or at least the plans for building the ark.
57   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Sep 14, 9:34am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Shrek once again displaying the emotional maturity of a five-year-old.
58   Tenpoundbass   ignore (6)   2017 Sep 14, 10:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Nope all melted glacier ice goes right back into the ground. The Sea will never rise to the levels you Liberals mentally masturbate to.
If it were possible the sea level would be 30,000 feet deeper today with all of the rivers that dump into the ocean around the world.
59   Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 14, 10:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

I'm not sure you understand the relationship between evaporation and precipitation capn m
60   anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 14, 8:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
No climate science denier is capable of making an argument.


Oh they can make a BETTER argument that GW is a hoax. The problem is you're incapable of understand the true science because of the gallons of koolaid you've consumed.

There's a reason you alarmist had to change it from global warming to climate change. Once you figure out why that was done, you'll sleep better at night.
61   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 14, 8:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Tenpoundbass says
Nope all melted glacier ice goes right back into the ground.


Almost chocked laughing at this one. Never eat and read TPB at the same time. Yes of course all water goes back into the ground.
62   anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 14, 10:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

iwog says
as more water vapor in the air means


means it was caused by evaporation . What causes evaporation? Is it CO2 or the heat from the sun?

Another hint, what is the largest greenhouse gas that traps heat? Here, I'll help you. Water vapor.

Your science class is now over.
63   BlueSardine   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 15, 2:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

All the windex evaporating off all the windows...

anonymous says
what is the largest greenhouse gas that traps heat?
64   Onvacation   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 15, 6:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says

It was changed to try and prevent stupid people from saying "Lookie der!! It's COLD!!

You can't stop stupid people and their claims.
65   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 15, 6:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

anonymous says
What causes evaporation? Is it CO2 or the heat from the sun?


Heat. CO2 keeps more heat on the planet, and that extra heat evaporates more water. It really is that simple. If that is not painfully obvious to you, please stop trying to give science lessons. It's painful for others to watch.
66   Onvacation   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 15, 6:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

YesYNot says
CO2 keeps more heat on the planet,

How much more? How much is caused by man? And what is the ideal temp on earth, a few degrees cooler, warmer?
Alarmists never answer these questions.
67   FNWGMOBDVZXDNW   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 15, 7:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Onvacation says
How much more?

Does this mean that you agree that it is more? Do you also agree that the argument that 'heat evaporates water' is just stating a painfully obvious fact that in no way disagrees with global warming theory?
68   anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 15, 11:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

YesYNot says
Heat. CO2 keeps more heat on the planet, and that extra heat evaporates more water.


What percentage of the atmosphere is CO2 versus water vapor?

What is the original source of this heat?
69   Entitlemented   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 15, 12:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

We do need solutions to combat global warmings effects and low/no emissions propulsion means.

The US spends only $2.5B on Small Business R&D, and corporations dont frequently invest in long term R&D. We spend > $500B on legal fees and regulations. We have more people working for the Fed, State, and Local Government that working on R&D/Manufacturing by a factor of 2.

China is trying to go all electric, but the charger for the electric battery may be fuels.

We should have a Progressive Technology Alliance - top 3 items.

- Articial Volcanism for increased reflectance of atmopheric radiation. ~ $15B/Year
- H2 separation technologies. - $15B/Year
- Applied H2 for aircraft - $6B/Year
- Clean/Safe Nuclear and different isotope exploitation( China working on this) $20B/Year

We should have standardized legal care, modeled after Germany - where a litigant must first deposit 10% of the suite claims into escrow, and compliant is first reviewed by 2 Lawyers at a merit review board. The peril in this is what if someone bought off the lawyers on the merit review board. Lawyers fees should be capped, just as there is a cap in Fed Regs on Science and Engineers pay.

The US might be able to make progress on these earth saving technologies, but with our Political/Litigative/Lobbying mentality the US is malinvesting its resources on the distorted and pay to play system we have. We have a form of selective Bolshivism thanks mostly to the Politicians and Lawyers.

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