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1   someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 18, 3:41pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Gosh, no mention of race, just like the press coverage of the BART mob robberies in Oakland. Why not?

Is truth important?

2   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2017 Jul 18, 4:29pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Paging Bernie Goetz...

3   georgeliberte   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 18, 4:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It is the same reason BART is refusing to release the videos of the swarm robbery in Oakland, it would increase racial tensions. Which sadly is the best confirmation of the race of the perpetrators they could make.

4   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Jul 18, 5:05pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

Looks like the Racists are worried about the race of the perps.
That's the main question for Racists.
Racists gotta Hate!
Stupidity on full display.

Cut off the hands of thieves & hackers regardless of race.
Bet it's a deterrent,they won't be able to steal...or hack.
If they are clever & do it ,again,they won't get another chance.

I'm surrounded by Snowflakes!

5   tovarichpeter   ignore (2)   2017 Jul 18, 6:04pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I actually just got home from another harrowing BART ride. The last car out of Civic Center to the Penninsula five PM. The car had been literally taken over by three teen age girls, one black and two mixed race or Somoan. They played there music so loud but offensive you could literally not hear the baby crying in a mothers arms as she was trying to comfort it. Of course they knew they would be able to do on BART at five o'clock week day rush hour without fear of being interrupted. Folks, we have always taken BART at our own risk. We are now taking it at our own peril. It hasn't just been handed over to the homeless but now it's been handed over to the thugs, as Muni was years ago. /p>

6   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2017 Jul 18, 6:49pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

tovarichpeter says

I actually just got home from another harrowing BART ride. The last car out of Civic Center to the Penninsula five PM. The car had been literally taken over by three teen age girls, one black and two mixed race or Somoan. They played there music so loud but offensive you could literally not hear the baby crying in a mothers arms as she was trying to comfort it. Of course they knew they would be able on BART at five o'clock week day rush hour. Folks, we have always ridden on BART at our own risk. We are now ridding it at our own peril. It hasn't just been handed over to the homeless but now it's been handed over to the thugs.

https://www.amazon.com/Frontiersman-Bear-Spray-Maximum-Strength/dp/B002BMOJXE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1500428927&sr=8-3&keywords=bear+spray

7   BayArea   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 18, 7:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

tovarichpeter says

I actually just got home from another harrowing BART ride. The last car out of Civic Center to the Penninsula five PM. The car had been literally taken over by three teen age girls, one black and two mixed race or Somoan. They played there music so loud but offensive you could literally not hear the baby crying in a mothers arms as she was trying to comfort it. Of course they knew they would be able on BART at five o'clock week day rush hour. Folks, we have always ridden on BART at our own risk. We are now ridding it at our own peril. It hasn't just been handed over to the homeless but now it's been handed over to the thugs.

A swift cranium kick would have been appropriate.

8   Booger   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 18, 7:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I blame nigs for this.

9   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 18, 7:36pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says

Gosh, no mention of race, just like the press coverage of the BART mob robberies in Oakland. Why not?

Is truth important?

I won't blame the Muslims for this. Must be the Russians.

10   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 18, 8:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It's nice of BART to pack all the mugging victims into tubes like that for easy access, with cordoning and few escape routes. Every time a BART train goes by in Oakland, it sets off drooling responses like Pavlov's dog.

12   someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 19, 10:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

tovarichpeter says

I actually just got home from another harrowing BART ride. The last car out of Civic Center to the Penninsula five PM.

Consider using Caltrain if you can. They have human conductors patrolling the car, and a low tolerance for such bullshit. They just stop the train, make a call, and the police show up quickly.

Why can't BART have human conductors patrolling the cars?

13   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 19, 11:14am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

georgeliberte says

If this is not pure racism, what is?

14   georgeliberte   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 19, 1:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It is not racism because clearly BART and Muni are protecting mob criminals who could not be anything but privileged white 'youths'. I mean being protected from the consequences of your criminal act is about as privileged as you can get, so the perpetrators must be white.

15   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 19, 2:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

It won't be long before ISIS is conducting mock trials and beheadings on BART. BART employees will scream for a raise.

JFK is the one who legalized the criminal enterprise known as the "Public Service Union" and allowed it to proliferate. Thanks, JFK!

16   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 19, 5:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

Straw Man says

Paging Bernie Goetz...

You do realize that Bernie Goetz was recently arrested for selling pot to a cop, right? Unless you think that pot should be legal, it's entirely hypocritical of you to glorify a criminal, and yes, he's a criminal by definition.

Personally, I think a person being a criminal does not make the person bad unless the law broken is justifiable. In the case of pot, it's not. So I can heroize Goetz without hypocrisy. Unless you agree that
1. Pot should be legal, including it's sale.
2. Being a criminal does not make a person bad
then you are being completely hypocritical.

17   Blurtman   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 19, 5:03pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

There is, of course, a solution.

18   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 19, 5:03pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Patrick says

Why can't BART have human conductors patrolling the cars?

It's BART. They could, but they would end up paying them $300,000/yr with 200 hours a week of overtime even though no one sees them working.

19   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2017 Jul 19, 5:29pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dan8267 says

You do realize that Bernie Goetz was recently arrested for selling pot to a cop, right?

What the fuck does this have to do with BART being overrun by punks?

20   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2017 Jul 19, 5:30pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dan8267 says

he's a criminal by definition.

Even better.

21   TheMightyOne   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 19, 8:47pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        


Gosh, no mention of race, just like the press coverage of the BART mob robberies in Oakland. Why not?

Is truth important?

There was no mention of height, weight or shoe size either. Why won't they tell this information.

22   someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 19, 9:21pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TheMightyOne says

There was no mention of height, weight or shoe size either. Why won't they tell this information.

Because those characteristics have zero correlation with these crimes.

Race, however, has a 100% correlation, and yet this information is suppressed.

23   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 19, 9:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Patrick says

TheMightyOne says

There was no mention of height, weight or shoe size either. Why won't they tell this information.

Because those characteristics have zero correlation with these crimes.

Bullshit. We all know that fat midgets with big clown feet kill far more people proportionally than normal sized people. Stop censoring the truth!

25   TheMightyOne   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 20, 7:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Race, however, has a 100% correlation, and yet this information is suppressed.

Does that mean that only members of one particular race commit such crimes? That doesn't sound likely. However, if it is the case, it's not worth mentioning. Perhaps you're concerned that this supposed fact is not universally understood. Why then, would you want it to be? Why is it so important? Maybe your brain is full of hatred towards whichever race you're thinking of and you want other people to share that hatred.

26   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 20, 7:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Statistically, African Americans commit more violent crimes than whites do. This is a correlation. It is not, however, causality. It is not caused by genetics or melanin. It's caused by a number of factors including
- poverty
- the inability to escape poverty
- segregation (although no longer a legal policy, it's still in effect)
- self-fulfilling proficiencies
- the war on drugs
- crappy elementary and secondary education and non-safe schools
- positive feedbacks caused by the above

So yes, being born a black male makes you far more likely to commit and be convicted of a violent crime. However, it's not a genetic thing. Its an environmental thing. The only way to solve the problem is to fix the environment.

27   someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 20, 8:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dan8267 says

It's caused by a number of factors including

Could one cause possibly be black racism against white people?

TheMightyOne says

Why then, would you want it to be? Why is it so important?

Because there is an unquestionable PC assumption that racism in America is about white people hating blacks, when an objective look at the reality of violent crime seems to show just the opposite. Interracial crimes are almost entirely blacks attacking whites. "Racism" by whites is simply a statistically well-justified fear of violent crime by blacks.

28   TheMightyOneAtWork   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 20, 10:01am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Because there is an unquestionable PC assumption that racism in America is about white people hating blacks, when an objective look at the reality of violent crime seems to show just the opposite. "Racism" by whites is simply a statistically well-justified fear of violent crime by blacks.

So you want the newspapers to publish stories of black criminals to convince people that racism is justified. Actually, there are many types of racism. Much of it has nothing to do with crime, such as employment discrimination. Essentially, you're stating your opinion. Statistics justify certain kinds of racism, according to you. While we're at it, we may note that very little white collar crime is committed by black people. It's nearly all white people. So I guess that people should keep that in mind when choosing a stock broker or CFP to help them plan for retirement. It's also a fact that nearly all violent crime is committed by men, very little by women.

Also, I don't see why you put the word racism in quotation marks. You think it's a great thing. Just state clearly. Don't play games.

29   TheMightyOneAtWork   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 20, 10:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I should have added that, since men commit so many violent crimes against women, any women who hate all men are acting perfectly reasonably. Their attitude would be a "statistically well-justified fear of violent crime" by men.

30   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 20, 10:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dan8267 says

Statistically, African Americans commit more violent crimes than whites do. This is a correlation. It is not, however, causality. It is not caused by genetics or melanin. It's caused by a number of factors including

- poverty

- the inability to escape poverty

- segregation (although no longer a legal policy, it's still in effect)

- self-fulfilling proficiencies

- the war on drugs

- crappy elementary and secondary education and non-safe schools

- positive feedbacks caused by the above

So yes, being born a black male makes you far more likely to commit and be convicted of a violent crime. However, it's not a genetic thing. Its an environmental thing. The only way to solve the problem is to fix the environment.

I wonder why you did not mention the primary reasons:
Lack of education.
Fathers abandoning their families.
Higher rates of teenage promiscuity.
Racism against non Blacks.

31   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 20, 11:04am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

MAOA - The thug gene. aka Warrior gene. Makes Black males more violent.

http://takimag.com/article/the_thug_gene/print

If a single gene could offer some explanation as to why African-Americans commit roughly five times as many violent crimes per capita as whites, wouldn’t studying it—and how to treat it—potentially save countless lives and deserve a Nobel Prize?

32   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 20, 11:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Patrick says

Could one cause possibly be black racism against white people?

Yes. However, I do not know if that is a factor and if so how much. I suspect that the main direct reason is the "live fast and hard and die young" culture of the ghetto, which was created because blacks were culturally isolated, not allowed in the same jobs, clubs, schools, and neighborhoods as whites. If a sub-population cannot integrate into the main population, then the sub-population will create its own culture rather than adopting the culture of the larger group. The gangster culture adopted by the urban African American communities is almost certainly caused by the portraying of blacks as lazy criminals becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It works like this. Blacks in the early 20th century were segregated into poor community with few resources. They were also subject to outright suppression by making an arbitrary drug used by them illegal, so to keep them off the voter registration, and enforcing that law mainly against blacks. These two things meant there were very few legal economic opportunities for most blacks. Thus they had to turn to illegal means of living such as dealing drugs and theft. This created more crime, which created more severe police actions. A positive feedback loop caused black neighborhoods to become crime infested areas trapping the occupants into the economic strategy of crime and drug dealing in a way analogous to sexual exaggeration, the process by which a trait and the preference for mates with that trait becomes stronger and more frequent over generations.

Genetic code can certainly affect behavior, including violent behavior. However, the burden of proof on any such claims is on the person making the claim. I do not know of any evidence to suggest that violent behavior is more common in one race than another, although it certainly is more common in some cultures than others. Nor is there any reason to believe the genes controlling skin pigment have any effect on violence, although this is possible in theory.

Black can and absolutely are racist. Pretty much most people are racist to some degree because human nature is to be tribal, and our history has made race into a tribe. Race doesn't have to be a tribe. There have been many empires such as the Romans and Alex the Great's empire that have spanned ethnic groups. In fact, some definitions of empire require the spanning of ethnic groups to distinguish empire from nation-state.

Skin color also does not have to be a tribe. In India, some people are very light skin and some very dark. Yet most Indians identify all Indians as insiders and all Pakistani as outsiders even when the foreigner has the same skin tone and the fellow nationalist has a very different one.

Tribalism can be based on anything, even the random assigning of people into two groups. Scientific experiments have confirmed this in humans. The effect of assigning people into two groups and then telling people that the other group was talking smack about them was enough to kill cooperation between the groups.

Patrick says

Interracial crimes are almost entirely blacks attacking whites.

The exception being crimes committed by cops. Then the reverse is true.

Patrick says

What is classified as "racism" by whites is simply a statistically well-justified fear of violent crime by blacks.

Racism is prejudice, which is by definition, pre-judging or judging before hand. A statistically well-justified fear of violent crime is pre-judging a person based on the group. It is racism, but more importantly, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I will illustrate with a person anecdote that happened to me. This is a true story.

I was driving to the beach one day. There was a car right in front of me that parked a few spaces ahead of where I parked. It was driven by a beautiful white woman. I start walking towards the beach. Normally beautiful women walk at a pace to avoid being close to men they don't know because they don't want to be hit on. However, this woman was walking obviously slower than normal allowing me to easily catch up with her.

I knew the reason immediately. There were five black teenagers about 17 a short distance ahead walking slowly and talking to each other. Now there is no reason to believe they were violent persons other than they were black, but as you said, there is a fear of violence from blacks because of all the news stories about violent black crime.

When I reach the woman, she immediately engaged me in conversation and even stated that she wanted me to walk with her because of the black teens. I obliged as that's what men do. We protect. I completely understood her concerns and situation. If she assumed the teens were violent and was wrong, the only cost was a minimal effort in avoiding them. However, if she gave the teens the benefit of a doubt and was wrong, she could be raped or murder. Erring on the side of safety demanded per-judging the teens to be violent.

I do not in any way negatively judge this woman for that prejudice. It was a necessary evil on her part. However, it would be dishonest to say there are zero consequences of this necessary evil. It's an evil because it has a very negative effect on people who, guilty only by association, are treated as criminals even when they are not. Again, this woman did the right thing given her choices, but the fact that our society makes this choice necessary is a great problem with real world consequences including perpetuating the self-fulfilling prophecy of black violent crime. Put simply, treating a sub-population as criminal encourages, even coerces, criminal behavior in that sub-population.

I can acknowledge both of these trues simultaneously. They are not in conflict.

[stupid comment limit]

33   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 20, 11:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

It is also important to note that perception of crime does not match reality of crime. Pretty much 100% of the population believes crime is getting worse. It's not. It's getting much better. We live in a time in which the per capita murder rate, both state-sponsored and criminal, is at the lowest it has ever been in all of human existence. The same is true for all violent crime including rape. Even robbery and burglary. Put simply, now is the closest to a crime-free utopia that mankind has ever seen. Yet public perception is the exact opposite because news likes murder porn. It equals ratings.

The problem is not with the facts you presented. Yes, it's absolutely true that black on white crime is much higher than white on black crime. The problem lies in the conclusion you reach from that fact. You are making the same mistake that feminazis make when calling the world a patriarchy.

It is true that most heads of states and members of parliaments, including the U.S. Congress, have been men. This does not imply that most men have been heads of states or members of parliaments. Throughout history, the typical ruler has been male AND the typical male has been a powerless peasant. These two facts are not contradictory. "The world is ruled by men." is a true statement. "Men rule the world." is a false statement. Men do not rule the world. A tiny, tiny fraction of men rule the world, but the world is ruled by almost entirely men. Therefore, no patriarchy exists.

It is true that most violent crime and most violent interracial crime is done by blacks. It is not true that most blacks commit violent crime or interracial crime. It is true that most American slavers were whites. It is not true that most American whites were slavers. It is true that just about all the people oppressing and abusing blacks for 400 years in America were whites. It is not true that most American whites were oppressing and abusing blacks over the past 400 years.

The converse of a true statement may be false. The contrapositive of a true statement must be true, and the contrapositive of a false statement must be false. Examples...

True Statement: All cats have tails.
Converse: Everything will a tail is a cat. (False)
Contrapositive: Nothing lacking a tail is a cat. (True)

All truths, no matter how unpleasant, should be acknowledged. However, one needs to be careful not to reach an incorrect hasty conclusion based on the acknowledged truth. One should always be a skeptic, but never a denier. (Denier being a person who denies despite evidence.)

The question is how do we fix the situation now. Even ignoring all the immorality and human suffering caused by American slavery, the fact remains that slavery has easily cost America a thousand times as much as the low cost labor gave us. Those asshole slavers left us with a bill for their evil that we're still paying off. Same goes for the KKK, the segregationists, and all other bigots. Racism has a real, monetary cost, and a real safety cost on our society. Imagine how much better America would be off today if the first slavers were simply executed for their crimes and slavery never became an institution but rather a very brief footnote in history.

The bottom line is that we have to break the cycle of poverty and bigotry. There is not single action that will fix this, but we have to do the following.
1. The war of drugs must immediately end.
2. All drug prisoners must be released.
3. Voting must be a right, not a privilege, and thus cannot be taken away by the state.
4. Drug abuse must be treated as a medical condition, not a criminal one.
5. Prisons must be reformed to rehabilitate rather than to inflict suffering. The later only coerces recidivism. See Norway for a successful system (videos below).
6. News agencies must not be allowed to report on crimes until AFTER trials to ensure fair trials. Murder porn isn't the fourth estate.
7. Criminal history must be confidential or a person who commits one crime will be forced into a life of crime because no one will hire him.
8. Education must be virtualized so that it is available to all. This is the only way to provide equal opportunity to all.
9. Criminal cops must be fully prosecuted by the law. If the people, especially African Americans, cannot trust the cops, then cops cannot be effective.
10. American attitude towards crime has go from blood lust vengeance to dispassionate rational goals of lowering crime rates. Stone Age instinct does not work because we don't live in small hunter-gather groups where you can simply kill a malcontent on the first offense. We have to use frontal lobe thinking to end or virtually end crime and violence.

There are also cultural changes that need to be made, but I don't do artsy-fartsy, so you'll have to figure out how to fix that yourself.

Short video

Long video

35   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (2)   2017 Jul 20, 12:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Let's deport all the fucks who terrorize BART to Norway. Where they'll end up in the wonderful Norwegian prisons pretty soon. And we'll see how reformed and educated they come out of there. This will be a win-win: Dan will get his ultimate proof and we won't have these fucks on BART.

36   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 20, 1:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dan8267 says

Wont work in America. Our criminals aren't civilized enough. Turkish prisons is what our criminals deserve.

37   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 20, 3:34pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Strategist says

Turkish prisons is what our criminals deserve.

And that is your mistake, being concerned about what criminals deserve rather than being concerned with minimizing and ultimately eliminating crime.

Vengeance is not justice, and you cannot serve both masters. Nor can you minimize crimes by maximizing the suffering of those who commit crimes. This is empirically wrong. Every scientific study has show that severe punishment does NOTHING to diminish crime because criminals don't rationally evaluation cost and benefits. In fact severe punishment tends to increase crime by making offenders antisocial. What does diminish crime greatly is the likelihood of being caught even if the punishment is light because criminals DO consider the probability of being caught.

You prefer vengeance over stopping crime. That is pure foolishness. All that matters is what works, not what satisfies your petty Stone Age blood lust.

38   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Jul 20, 8:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

Turkish prisons is what our criminals deserve.

And that is your mistake, being concerned about what criminals deserve rather than being concerned with minimizing and ultimately eliminating crime.

Vengeance is not justice, and you cannot serve both masters. Nor can you minimize crimes by maximizing the suffering of those who commit crimes. This is empirically wrong. Every scientific study has show that severe punishment does NOTHING to diminish crime because criminals don't rationally evaluation cost and benefits. In fact severe punishment tends to increase crime by making offenders antisocial.

So you are saying if we have expensive luxury resorts for prisoners, crime will go down? Crime will go down if we keep them in prison or execute them, because that way they cannot commit any crimes. Putting murderers in luxury resorts to teach them a lesson and then releasing them is silly.

Dan8267 says

You prefer vengeance over stopping crime. That is pure foolishness. All that matters is what works, not what satisfies your petty Stone Age blood lust.

Like I said keeping criminals in prison and executing them is what will keep crime down. In the meantime, I could care less for their well being. I care for the well being of the victims, myself, and the rest of decent society.

39   Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Jul 21, 12:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Strategist says

So you are saying if we have expensive luxury resorts for prisoners, crime will go down?

I don't care what you call them. The empirical evidence speaks for itself. Watch the long video.

Reality is what it is, not what you want. You need to put aside what you want to be true and accept what is true no matter what that truth is.

Actual experts have studied and measured the effects of various strategies and have determines which work. Evidence is all that matters, not what you want to believe.

Strategist says

Like I said keeping criminals in prison and executing them is what will keep crime down.

You will never get life imprisonment sentences for every crime no matter how minor, nonetheless on the first offense. You are pipe dreaming. 95% of prisoners are eventually released. Do you want them committing more crimes and making you have to pay more taxes to prosecute and incarcerate them, or do you want them to reform and start paying taxes so that you pay less taxes?

You really need to stop feeling and start thinking.

You also need to watch the fucking video. It addresses everything you've said.

40   someone else   ignore (0)   2017 Jul 21, 9:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TheMightyOneAtWork says

Their attitude would be a "statistically well-justified fear of violent crime" by men.

Women should indeed have a greater fear of being followed by a man at night than being followed by a woman.

You're the only one talking about hate though. I don't hate anyone. I'm just saying that what is classified as white "racism" is usually simply a well-justified fear of black violence.





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