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Dreaming of Califorshithole

By Tenpoundbass following x   2017 Aug 2, 12:09pm 2,031 views   65 comments   watch   quote     share  

http://canadafreepress.com/article/calexit-leader-to-tucker-its-good-that-the-middle-class-is-leaving-californ

nbsp; This would be a great development if you hope never to see another Democrat in the White House, but not so great if you love good Cabernet Sauvignon.It will also, for a whole host of reasons, never happen.Despite that fact, Singam appeared on last night’s installment of the Tucker Carlson show to sing the praises of Calexit. During his segment he twitched, rolled his eyes, looked weird, and said

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26 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 2, 4:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Booger says

I'm sure that there is more than one reason why properly prices are high in CA.

I'm sure that was covered. You're the second person to misread "the biggest reason" as "the only reason".

Booger says

So then you will not be retiring in a state that does not tax Social Security benefits, correct?

Social security is going to be such a tiny part of my retirement plan that I'm not making any plans regarding it whatsoever.

27 bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 2, 5:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says

bob2356 says

Really? And zoning has nothing to do with it?

I said biggest. I did not say only.

and what's the biggest reason in all the equally high priced markets that aren't in CA and don't have prop 13?

28 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 2, 7:44pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

bob2356 says

and what's the biggest reason in all the equally high priced markets that aren't in CA and don't have prop 13?

Wealth disparity. Prop. 13 is pretty effective at enriching the aristocracy but it is by no means the only pathway to driving the cost of real estate out of the ballpark for most people.

I think it's pretty telling that the highest prices in the country and sometimes the world are in California.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-housing-markets-in-the-us-2016-9/#25-walnut-creek-california-1

29 FortWayne   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 2, 7:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

Those people would not be able to afford their homes in today's prices because of inflation and government failure.

iwog says

FortWayne says

All old folks I know live in small houses while living on a social security income with a part time job to make ends meet.

Right......you do realize we're talking about California right? Where a modest family home is worth well over $1 million anywhere near SF or LA or San Diego??

I don't think you are telling the truth unless you live in a trailer park.

30 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 2, 7:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says

Those people would not be able to afford their homes in today's prices because of inflation and government failure.

I think you missed the main point here.

Of course they couldn't afford those homes today because those homes are worth a huge sum of money. Clearly an amount of money so large that they don't have to scrape by on Social Security and a part time job right?

Besides the fact your story doesn't hold up, they are still living in an expensive asset and fucking over their grandchildren.

31 FortWayne   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 8:41am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

No one here is fucking anyone over except you commies trying to kick old people out of their houses.

Talk about cruel and evil, epitome of socialism.

iwog says

FortWayne says

Those people would not be able to afford their homes in today's prices because of inflation and government failure.

I think you missed the main point here.

Of course they couldn't afford those homes today because those homes are worth a huge sum of money. Clearly an amount of money so large that they don't have to scrape by on Social Security and a part time job right?

Besides the fact your story doesn't hold up, they are still living in an expensive asset and fucking over their grandchildren.

32 Goran_K   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 8:55am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says

It will probably start to resemble Dubai only with better weather.

This is funny coming from someone who probably has never been to Dubai, but amazingly accurate.

Dubai has one of the largest illegal immigrant labor forces in the world and because of amount of labor force abuse is off the charts. The government tacitly allows it (while on the surface maintaining that it's illegal) but the underground black market system continues to exist. Sounds exactly like California.

33 Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 8:58am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

The brats also have prop 13 advantages. They have to pay down their mortgages and WAIT for appreciation, just like their parents did.

34 lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 3, 9:40am   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        

Prop 13 was there when the market crashed a few short years ago. Prices were very reasonable then. Prop 13 didn't magically make prices rise. NYC does not have prop13 -prices are there. How are the prices in Barstow , CA-did prop 13 make them unreasonable?

Now commercial and rental properties can be removed, but primary-oh well.

35 errc   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 10:11am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

How did they ever dream up, and pass, Prop 13.

It just sounds ridiculously stupid.

36 zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 3, 10:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

bob2356 says

Pretty funny for someone living in south florida shithole.

If I had my pick of South Florida or California, I'd pick South Florida. Having said that, I will probably retire in Delaware or maybe north Florida near Jacksonville.

37 zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 3, 10:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Doesn't Florida have something where property taxes can only go up 3% per year, once you have bought the house?

38 lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 3, 10:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says

How did they ever dream up, and pass, Prop 13.

It just sounds ridiculously stupi

If they had a prop system in IL , I think prop 13 would sail. When you are paying 14k for a 380k house-and get the same service as someone paying 3k for 380k house in another state-people will get angry.

39 zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 3, 10:20am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says

Social security is going to be such a tiny part of my retirement plan that I'm not making any plans regarding it whatsoever.

Good for you! But I've noticed in my research that several of the potential retiree states that I am considering don't tax Social Security benefits also seem to have other retiree benefits, like lower property taxes, and a generous deduction for retiree income (if they even have state income taxes).

40 zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 3, 10:21am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        

lostand confused says

When you are paying 14k for a 380k house-and get the same service as someone paying 3k for 380k house in another state-people will get angry.

Fixed:
When you are paying 14k for a 380k house-and get the same service as someone paying 3k for 380k house in another state-people will move,

41 dublin hillz   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 3, 10:49am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        

Social security benefits are not taxed in California:

"California does not tax social security income from the United States, including survivor's benefits and disability benefits. Social security income may be partially taxable under federal law.

To determine whether or not your social security benefits are taxable for the federal return, see IRS Publication 915, Social Security and Equivalent Railroad Retirement Benefits, or IRS Publication 17, Your Federal Income Tax, Chapter 12, Social Security and Equivalent Railroad Retirement Benefits."

http://www.taxes.ca.gov/income_tax/specialind.shtml#Social

In general, I would not base my retirement locale based on taxes - at that stage of existence, it's all about enjoying life to the max, not the damn finances!

42 AllTruth   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 10:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

TenPoundBass strikes again.

44 zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 3, 11:40am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

dublin hillz says

In general, I would not base my retirement locale based on taxes - at that stage of existence, it's all about enjoying life to the max, not the damn finances!

True, but if you are thinking about retiring and have several states in mind, taxes should be one of many considerations. For example, if considering Florida, sure the lack of state income taxes helps, but you also have to figure in paying double for homeowners insurance, and the cost of a new roof every 15 years in order to even have homeowners insurance. Yes they do that now in Florida (and some other places). I won't have that in DE. Amazingly SC and DE are pretty close in cost of living, with DE having a slight edge due to no sales tax (although I doubt that means much in retirement).

45 socal2   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 3, 12:22pm   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        

SpecialSnowflake says

Abolishing of Prop13 will fuck many people without offering anything in return. It will also open the residents of the state to massive property tax hikes by legislature dominated by one party known for happily wasting money w/o good return for the citizents , i.e. exactly the situation which lead to tax revolt in the first place.

No kidding.

Just think how much worse California government services would be today after the housing bubble burst if the drunks in Sacramento and unions got used to the sky high property tax returns during the bubble years? We'd have even more municipal bankruptcies than we do now.

If nothing else, Prop 13 keeps the morons that run California half-way sober.

46 HEY YOU   ignore (3)   2017 Aug 3, 1:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

California needs to take a lesson from Red State Kans-ass.
That's the way to fuck up a state.

47 socal2   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 3, 1:18pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

HEY YOU says

California needs to take a lesson from Red State Kans-ass.

That's the way to fuck up a state.

How many Kansas cities are going through bankruptcy proceedings like California?

Which state has the highest poverty rate?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_poverty_rate

Which state has higher educational attainment?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_educational_attainment

48 Booger   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 3, 2:50pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

iwog says

How about basic fairness of taxing all citizens at the same rate?

Are you willing to apply this to income tax as well?

49 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 2:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Booger says

Are you willing to apply this to income tax as well?

No. You should probably read the thread before bringing up something I've already covered in detail.

iwog says

Ideally we'd have a progressive tax for real estate and a progressive tax for income. This is entirely consistent and what I would push for if it was possible.

Under the current system we have low taxes for billionaires and fuck anyone who works for a living.

I'm not cherry picking. I'm advocating for something that might actually pass the legislature someday which would be a flat property tax. It's an excellent first step.

50 Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 4:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

SpecialSnowflake says

Abolishing of Prop13 will fuck many people without offering anything in return. It will also open the residents of the state to massive property tax hikes by legislature dominated by one party known for happily wasting money w/o good return for the citizents , i.e. exactly the situation which lead to tax revolt in the first place.

And most of the increase would end up in the pensions of people who don't deserve more, and the rest will be frittered away by bureaucrats.
The less we get taxed, the less will be the waste.

51 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 6:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says

And most of the increase would end up in the pensions of people who don't deserve more, and the rest will be frittered away by bureaucrats.

Eliminating prop. 13 wouldn't add one single penny to pensions.

Where do you get this stuff?

52 Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 7:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        

iwog says

Strategist says

And most of the increase would end up in the pensions of people who don't deserve more, and the rest will be frittered away by bureaucrats.

Eliminating prop. 13 wouldn't add one single penny to pensions.

Where do you get this stuff?

It's our taxes that go to fund undeserved pensions of bureaucrats and their bureaucracy. That gets funded first, followed by the crumbs that go towards the benefit of the citizens.
Look at it this way:
The higher the taxes, the larger the government employees.
More government employees results in more pensions, more bureaucracy, and more waste.
Lets keep government to a minimum, by not letting them have more of our tax money to spend. Also make government outsource more of it's services to the private sector, that can do the same thing more efficiently, and cheaper.
Tell me why I might be wrong?

53 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 3, 10:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says

Tell me why I might be wrong?

You're wrong in that state pensions are 100% funded now so I have no idea WTF you are talking about.

California isn't broke and is running a surplus. You really should get that alternate reality machine fixed.

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/18/californias-economy-outstrips-other-states-including-texas/

54 bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 7:38am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says

Also make government outsource more of it's services to the private sector, that can do the same thing more efficiently, and cheaper.

More efficiently and cheaper like this? http://www.pogo.org/our-work/reports/2011/co-gp-20110913.html

55 Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 8:02am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

bob2356 says

Strategist says

Also make government outsource more of it's services to the private sector, that can do the same thing more efficiently, and cheaper.

More efficiently and cheaper like this? http://www.pogo.org/our-work/reports/2011/co-gp-20110913.html

I see the public employee unions have been busy with their propaganda. Well, they have nothing else to do.

56 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 8:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says

I see the public employee unions have been busy with their propaganda. Well, they have nothing else to do.

This was just a decree wasn't it. You dismissed it out of hand, no research, and without any other support than "itz propaganda!!".

57 bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 9:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says

I see the public employee unions have been busy with their propaganda. Well, they have nothing else to do.

It is far better to remain silent and appear to be a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. Mark Twain.

Project on government oversight is an independent non profit public interest group that has won many awards for investigating and exposing government waste and corruption for over 35 years. Hope you washed your foot before sticking it so far down your throat.

58 FortWayne   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 9:57am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

You complaining about that is amusing iwog.

iwog says

Strategist says

I see the public employee unions have been busy with their propaganda. Well, they have nothing else to do.

This was just a decree wasn't it. You dismissed it out of hand, no research, and without any other support than "itz propaganda!!".

59 socal2   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 4, 10:12am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        

iwog says

You're wrong in that state pensions are 100% funded now so I have no idea WTF you are talking about.

You are smoking crack.

California Still Facing Pension Crisis Even With Good Stock Market Returns
http://reason.com/archives/2017/07/14/dont-let-unions-use-good-returns-to-defl

60 socal2   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 4, 10:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

bob2356 says

Project on government oversight is an independent non profit public interest group that has won many awards for investigating and exposing government waste and corruption for over 35 years. Hope you washed your foot before sticking it so far down your throat.

I've been a private engineering contractor for 25 years working on government water projects. The amount of waste and inefficiencies that I have seen with my own eyes is staggering.

Just examine the Prevailing Wage racket. In order to work on a "Public Works" project private contractors have to pay basic high school educated laborers nearly $100K a year! Prevailing Wage is a strong arm technique to try and disuade our government from hiring lower cost and more efficient private contractors. Check out these wages for basic unskilled laborers!
http://www.dir.ca.gov/OPRL/2017-1/PWD/Determinations/Southern/SC-023-102-2.pdf

Of course I also need to make sure I meet the diversity quotas and have to charge the cities even a higher price so I can use an MWBE temp firm located in East Coast to meet my numbers.

I proposed on a job in Stockton when they were going through their bankruptcy proceedings a few years ago. Back then they could opt out of prevailing wage because they were a charter city. My price was $250K normally, but I had to increase it to $380K to cover prevailing wage. I asked the City if they wanted to exercise their right to opt out on this project and save the tax payers $130K, of course they didn't. This would be the easiest thing to do politically to save this struggling bankrupt city money. We aren't even talking about the painful things that will need to happen like clawing back pensions. But even this simple and painless step, a bankrupt city like Stockton still stuck with these corrupt union contracting rules.

But yeah - I suppose we can believe our unionized government bureaucracy s a model of efficiency and we just need to shovel more tax dollars their way.

61 bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 12:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

socal2 says

Check out these wages for basic unskilled laborers!

So you are saying the private contractors cost more than government workers then. Thanks for clearing that up.

It's good to know that you are a saint looking to save the government money. Sorry to say but that is far from the norm for government contractors. With or without corrupt union contracting rules.

I'm not seeing your research refuting the pogo numbers. Did I miss it somehow?

62 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 4, 12:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

socal2 says

You are smoking crack.

California Still Facing Pension Crisis Even With Good Stock Market Returns

http://reason.com/archives/2017/07/14/dont-let-unions-use-good-returns-to-defl

And you sir have no idea what the conversation was about.

The assertion is increased tax revenue will INCREASE pension payouts in California. I have no idea what your point was but it wasn't this unless you're going to start with: "Fuck bankrupt pensions, they don't deserve the money so if they get it, it's an increase!" which I would also consider a non-sequitur.

63 zzyzzx   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 4, 12:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

socal2 says

iwog says

You're wrong in that state pensions are 100% funded now so I have no idea WTF you are talking about.

You are smoking crack.

California Still Facing Pension Crisis Even With Good Stock Market Returns

http://reason.com/archives/2017/07/14/dont-let-unions-use-good-returns-to-defl

#iwogwrong

64 socal2   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 4, 1:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        

bob2356 says

So you are saying the private contractors cost more than government workers then. Thanks for clearing that up.

It's good to know that you are a saint looking to save the government money. Sorry to say but that is far from the norm for government contractors. With or without corrupt union contracting rules.

I'm not seeing your research refuting the pogo numbers. Did I miss it somehow?

Huh? Those are wages set by the California Department of Industrial Relations (DIR). Private contractors are forced to pay these inflated wages if they want to bid on government jobs. I have to submit certified payroll every month to the California DIR. I have some high school educated laborers making more than some of my civil engineers because of this crazy union rule.

And even those crazy high prevailing wages have less cost to the taxpayer because private contractors don't have ridiculous defined benefit pensions to pay out like we do with municipal employees. Surely you are aware of the pension crisis crippling states like California, Illinois, Texas, Connecticut.......? Is that all made up?

IRT - POGO link. I am talking about State and Municipal Government because that is my direct experience. But I noticed the entire POGO analysis says virtually nothing about the massive pension obligation of Federal Employees. The only mention of pension is to cite a union hack who is trying to discredit a USA Today analysis saying Federal Employees cost 20% more than the private sector.

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