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1   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 10, 5:41pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Has she changed her name to Chelsea Yuck!

2   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 10, 6:47pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I'd take her over Lena Dunham.

3   rando   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 10, 7:38pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

No, just no.

Adults should have the freedom to do what they want in their private lives, but not the power to demand that we all approve of it.

4   curious2   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 10, 8:40pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

Patrick, even Iran allows transgendered persons to get surgery, and pays for up to half the cost, following a fatwa from Ayatollah Khomeini. If you are more narrow minded than Khomeini, and so much so that you can't be happy for Pfc Manning, then you're imprisoning yourself in hellish anger, drinking poison and hoping she dies of it.

5   rando   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 10, 8:52pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that I don't approve, and should not be forced to approve.

6   BlueSardine   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 10, 8:58pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I recommend you just abstain..
TwoScoopsMcGee says

I'd take her over Lena Dunham.

8   curious2   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 10, 9:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

rando says

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that I don't approve, and should not be forced to approve.

You come back to this particular topic over and over again, insisting there are only two genders, no matter how many genetic, anatomical, and personal examples prove you wrong. You might disapprove of all sorts of things, from rap to feng shui, but this one is living rent free inside your head. Caitlin Jenner exists, and you gain nothing by denying that fact.

On a related point, Peter Thiel exists, and could have his choice of many males, females, whatever. He's gay. He wants male.

Somehow you keep reverting to some early program from maybe a midwestern Catholic school, a bit like Fortwayne without the religious dogma attached. You're not so sanctimonious as he is, but you have the same misplaced certitude that your doctrine trumps others' facts.

You haven't walked a mile in their shoes. You don't know how the world looks through their eyes.

10   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2017 Aug 10, 9:19pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

curious2 says

rando says

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that I don't approve, and should not be forced to approve.

You come back to this particular topic over and over again, insisting there are only two genders, no matter how many genetic, anatomical, and personal examples prove you wrong. You might disapprove of all sorts of things, from rap to feng shui, but this one is living rent free inside your head. Caitlin Jenner exists, and you gain nothing by denying that fact.

On a related point, Peter Thiel exists, and could have his choice of many males, females, whatever. He's gay. He wants male.

Somehow you keep reverting to some early program from maybe a midwestern Catholic school, a bit like Fortwayne without the religious dogma attached. You're not so sanctimonious as he is, but you have the same misplaced certitude that your doctrine trumps others' facts.

You're ignoring:

1.) the high cost of a pointless surgery, where there is an attempt to get those surgeries paid for by the gov(and from taxpayers.

2.) the regretfully high suicide rate that is the same whether or not surgery is done

3.) the basic request for society and law to change to conform so that a very small population doesn't get hurt feelings.

4.) the horrific potential damage to kids who are encouraged to begin hormones even as early as preteens. Tragic when the majority of these kids decide later on that they aren't actually transgender.

I respect your opinions even when I disagree, but I think you are pretty off base on this one.

11   rando   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 10, 9:21pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

curious2 says

midwestern Catholic school

Lol, I did indeed attend some midwestern Catholic schools, including Notre Dame freshman and sophomore years, but did not absorb the doctrine. I was always opposed. Determined resistance to indoctrination was really the main result of my life as a Catholic.

And that's probably the effect you're seeing now. I just don't want to feel that I'm being forced to approve of a vice. If it makes them happy, OK, people should pursue happiness as long as it doesn't hurt others. But don't tell me I have to classify their behavior as good. That's doctrine.

12   curious2   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 10, 9:57pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Fucking White Male says

You're ignoring:

I didn't ignore items 1-3 on your list, and in fact I've tended to keep quiet about the topic except to question why the same surgery and treatments cost 10x more here than in Thailand, where the work seems to be at least as good or better. I did downvote the OP for calling it "gross" though, because that seems really unkind.

Regarding item 4 on your list, I did happen to see on PBS "Growing Up Trans." From the POV of trans kids entering puberty, their best chance at the adulthood they want is to begin hormones ASAP, so they push for that. IDK how many might be pushed into it, but in my experience it's difficult enough to get kids to eat their vegetables let alone change their anatomy. In any event, Caitlin Jenner and Pfc Manning are both adults, so it's moot.

rando says

And that's probably the effect you're seeing now.

Maybe so, but I don't see what other basis you would have for saying everything that doesn't fit your theory of what people should want and be is therefore vice. For a morbidly obese person to eat candy and donuts can legitimately be called a vice. Eating is not, in itself, a vice.

14   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2017 Aug 12, 2:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

curious2 says

Fucking White Male says

You're ignoring:

I didn't ignore items 1-3 on your list, and in fact I've tended to keep quiet about the topic except to question why the same surgery and treatments cost 10x more here than in Thailand, where the work seems to be at least as good or better. I did downvote the OP for calling it "gross" though, because that seems really unkind.

Regarding item 4 on your list, I did happen to see on PBS "Growing Up Trans." From the POV of trans kids entering puberty, their best chance at the adulthood they want is to begin hormones ASAP, so they push for that. IDK how many might be pushed into it, but in my experience it's difficult enough to get kids to eat their vegetables let alone change their anatomy. In any event, Caitlin Jenner and Pfc Manning are both adults, so it's moot.

As to the kids being even "suggested" into things, here's a real good example of how incredibly demented some urban parenting circles are:

I don't see how anyone who has watched the Hunger Games movies doesn't understand how incredibly destructive a an emotional move away from human nature is. Emphasizing physical appearance and vanity is an absolute emotional crush of who we are. I would say that is my major objection to the indoctrination of children. Oh and the fact that one can't actually change their biological sex.

15   Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 12, 3:16pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

There is phenotypic anatomical gender dysmorphia at birth in about one percent or so, meaning the sex isn’t clear without a DNA test, or genitals are ambiguous or even duplicate. These are the cases where children are observed and “gender” more or less randomly assigned on a hunch. If these hunches are mistaken, or the individuals think their sex assignment was incorrect, they could desire to “correct” the matter later.

There appears to be hormonal and developmental issues as well in sex roles. Also, genes jump around, even between X and Y chromosomes. Nature seems to find it advantageous to transmit at least some “female” traits in males as well as some “male” traits in females. Sex identity can be a hodge podge of spread spectrum tendencies that are difficult to pigeonhole.

There is a genetic condition of complete testosterone insensitivity in which DNA biologic XY males are born with female bodies and to all appearances are psychologically and morphologically female through growth and development. Except, these individuals do not have ovaries and uterus, but a pair of undescended, cancer prone testicles embedded in their abdomens. One would never suggest that they be artificially turned into "males" when everything they have ever known is "female".

This points toward the idea that the basic human template is female rather than male, and that males are only developed for their role in promoting genetic diversity, and that male traits tend to be the product of hormonal intervention during development combined with some genetic aka "Y" input.

“Sexual preference” is something else again, because none of these roles necessarily indicate which sex the individual might actually be attracted to for active sex or what “role” they want to play when they choose.

Sex roles clearly have some plasticity, as is demonstrated in those human laboratories called prisons.
It appears that groups of people have an inductive effect on each other to divide into separate male and female sex roles even when the sexes are the same i.e. all “male” or “all female”. There are instances of fully heterosexual males becoming “girls” in prison, who go back to being fully heterosexual males when released. Women also divide into the butch dominates and submissive nellies in prisons.

LBGT, however, also promote tolerance to another group who apparently suffer from a kind of narcissistic obsessive compulsive disorder that isn’t necessarily biologic, phenotypic, genotypic, or even involving sex roles. Instead of adapting within their “assigned” sex role, this group obsesses that the grass is “greener” on the other side of the sex fence in the opposite sex role. These are the individuals that carry this OC disorder all the way to hormonal use and mutilating surgery. It isn’t surprising that they commit suicide, because “reality” does not meet the rigid fantasy that they obsess about. This group is actually trying to treat a mental disorder with surgery and hormones to play act according to their narcissistic OC disorder.

Even people who might be sympathetic to gender and sexual preference issues know something is “wrong” with this latter group. Even if you feel that you have some identification with “female” if you are male, or vice versa, healthy individuals can adapt sufficiently to their sex roles even if there are some psychic, or even physical, distortions or discontinuities.

You could call promoting this OC disorder as normal as “honoring mental illness” in the guise of tolerance. It is mental illness jumping on the coattails of a generally minority issue of sex confusion and sex differentiation in a relatively small group.

It really is abuse to think that children are so clear on their own sex roles that you could start transgendering them and transitioning them at an early age in lieu of specific biologic conditions that might otherwise warrant it.

I guess they have the surgery mills that are prepared for the profits because, yeah, you can find always a guy that will cut you up anyway you think you should be cut up if you pay them enough. All of our "plastic surgery victims" attest to that.

16   curious2   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 12, 5:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Ceffer says

obsessive compulsive disorder

@Ceffer, that hypothesis made me more curious than usual, so I read further and found various case reports and other anecdotal evidence. From my brief initial reading, transgender may be distinguished from OCD by age of onset (e.g. onset ~20yo is probably OCD), but OCD can start by age 4 or even earlier. Such early onset might perhaps be diagnosed either way, and a wrong answer might explain some of the reportedly elevated suicide rates. Do you have links you might suggest for further reading?

17   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 12, 6:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

BlueSardine says

I recommend you just abstain..

Any port in a storm, although I reject the idea that not believing that rejecting a "Women Penis" is evil prejudice. Not into buttsex, unfortunately.

19   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 13, 4:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

rando says

Adults should have the freedom to do what they want in their private lives, but not the power to demand that we all approve of it.

rando says

I'm not angry, I'm just saying that I don't approve, and should not be forced to approve.

rando says

I just don't want to feel that I'm being forced to approve of a vice.

Who is the mysterious they that is "forcing" forcing you to approve. No one forced you to click and comment on this thread or buy vogue. It seems you feel persecuted on many subjects.

20   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Aug 13, 5:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Why am I forced to approve AND SUBSIDIZE the vice of alcohol consumption? It's absurdly expensive to society, and deadly, yet nary a peep about this, the most egregious of all vices.

I couldn't care any less about other people's gender appropriations and bedroom activities, but I'm going to assume this is because I can say with 100% certainty that I'm comfortable in mine own.

People are pretty much fucked in the head, as can be proven by their personal fears and SJW actions .

Islam is coming to kill you, and you're under constant attack from fruitcakes and queers....lol. Put down the CPU and go outside

21   komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 13, 11:50am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Curious 2 says

Caitlin Jenner exists, and you gain nothing by denying that fact.

Yes he does exist and he's a man...It doesn't matter if he changes his name, wears makeup and dresses or even cuts off his dick. He's still a man with a woman's name wearing makeup and a dress with his dick cut off.





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