Our financial elite learned nothing from the housing bubble
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Our financial elite learned nothing from the housing bubble

By tovarichpeter following x   2017 Aug 17, 10:59am 1,538 views   96 comments   watch   quote     share  


http://cepr.net/publications/op-eds-columns/ten-years-after-financial-crisis-our-elites-have-learned-nothing

SeriesTHE BLOGS Ten Years After Financial Crisis Our Elites Have Learned Nothing Dean BakerTruthout, August 14, 2017See article on original siteLast week, I heard BBC announce the 10th anniversary of the beginning of the financial crisis. This is dated to the decision by the French bank BNP Paribas to prohibit withdrawals from two hedge funds that were heavily invested in subprime mortgage backed securities. According to BBC, this was when lending began to freeze and house prices began to fall.The problem with BBC's story is that house prices had already been falling for more than a year. While the nationwide...


#housing

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57 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 9:23am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says

Reading comprehension issues again? What did I post?


No, I read it correctly. Like the part where you said I was wrong. Care to reconsider that?

Also, still waiting for you to provide anything showing the $10T cost of the bailout....
58 Sniper   ignore (7)   2017 Oct 31, 9:33am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Like the part where you said I was wrong. Care to reconsider that?


Nope, you still don't understand this part:

Sniper says
if you have a loan on it, it's a asset on the books at the bank and a liability (debt) to you.


Why don't you understand that? Do you know what a Balance Sheet is?
59 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 9:54am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says
Why don't you understand that? Do you know what a Balance Sheet is?


lol--now you're just trying to distract and change the conversation. What in the world would make you think I don't understand that?

Have you found any support to show where the $10T got added to the debt? Or the tax increase of $10T?
60 NuttBoxer   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 10:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

NuttBoxer says
joeyjojojunior says
The meltdown cost the taxpayers

How is being a taxpayer relevant to the crash? Everyone made the obvious connection with your statement because the bailout cost trillions in taxes.


Still waiting on your response to the above...
61 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 10:53am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

NuttBoxer says


Still waiting on your response to the above...


Sorry--not sure I understand the question. I'm not trying to split hairs by saying taxpayers. I'm saying the bailout was almost cost neutral. As shown by the GAO accounting.

Now--the meltdown/crash cost plenty to the US economy. But the bailout is not the same as the meltdown.
62 Sniper   ignore (7)   2017 Oct 31, 11:40am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Sorry--not sure I understand the question.


Just another day with the Troll.
63 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 12:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says
Just another day with the Troll.


Did you find the links and sources that show the $10T in additional debt yet?
64 Sniper   ignore (7)   2017 Oct 31, 12:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Sniper says
Just another day with the Troll.


Did you find the links and sources that show the $10T in additional debt yet?


All the numbers you want, right here:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
65 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 12:29pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says
All the numbers you want, right here:


No, actually that is none of the numbers I want. I'm looking for you to show where the $10T cost of the bailout is coming from. That link does not answer that.
66 NuttBoxer   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 3:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
NuttBoxer says
I disagree. They learned they can be as reckless as they want with other people's money, then when it blows up in their faces, they can make us pay for it!


I know we've been over this time and again, and I'm the first in line to prosecute Wall St., but to be fair, the bailout to which you refer cost the US taxpayers basically nothing. It was all loans that have been paid back with interest.


joeyjojojunior says
I'm saying the bailout was almost cost neutral. As shown by the GAO accounting.

Now--the meltdown/crash cost plenty to the US economy. But the bailout is not the same as the meltdown.


Just posting the above for reference. I see where the issue is here. You believe I was only talking about the bailout. Now whether I agree with your economics there or not is another issue, but my comment was in reference to the OP, which did not use your compartmentalization. Neither did I. I blame the financial elite for all of it, break it down or lump it all together, it matters not.

But you want to focus on the bailout, fine. Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?
67 anon_7c0c9   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 31, 3:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

NuttBoxer says
Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?


Maybe because if your system is ever increasing debt, nothing ever gets paid back? You don't live 200 years and the national debt has been increasing steadily since the 1960s so 60 years might as well be forever. I can accurately say for anyone currently alive, it has cost you nothing.
68 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 31, 5:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

NuttBoxer says
Since the government earns no money on it's own, it's all borrowed from the Federal Reserve, and the interest owed on that borrowing is paid back through taxes, which are levied on US Citizens, how the fuck does it cost us nothing!?


Actually the Fed returns almost all earnings to the US Government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/business/economy/fed-returns-77-billion-in-profits-to-treasury.html
But I agree that Wall St. and the big banks screwed over the US public enormously before the crash. Whether or not it could be proven in a court of law, the behavior was absolutely fraudulent and should have been punished. Unfortunately, we didn't learn our lesson and are going down the same road again, a decade later.
69 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 1, 6:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anon_c1f03 says
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.


The uneducated most certainly do not understand money and banking. If they did, they wouldn't be on welfare.
70 Tenpoundbass   ignore (6)   2017 Nov 1, 8:02am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I say shave 75% off the top off every Real Estate parcel in America. Then raise the Fed interest rates to 6%, revisit the HW Bush(Now that we know what evil crooks they were and were the God Father to what we have now) S&L Loans regulation that killed personal saving accounts being paid.

I would rather see my bank account grow 20% YOY than my house. Less you expect your grand children to live in caves and fend for themselves.
71 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 1, 8:05am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

.anon_c1f03 says
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system


Exhibit A:

Tenpoundbass says
I say shave 75% off the top off every Real Estate parcel in America. Then raise the Fed interest rates to 6%, revisit the HW Bush(Now that we know what evil crooks they were and were the God Father to what we have now) S&L Loans regulation that killed personal saving accounts being paid.

I would rather see my bank account grow 20% YOY than my house. Less you expect your grand children to live in caves and fend for themselves
72 Sniper   ignore (7)   2017 Nov 1, 8:26am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Exhibit A:


Says the guy who doesn't know the difference between an "Asset" and a "Liability".
73 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 1, 12:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sniper says
Says the guy who doesn't know the difference between an "Asset" and a "Liability".


hahahaha. No that would be you, piggy. You're the one who went down this stupid path because you can never admit you are wrong.
74 Roidy   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 1, 9:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Gentle Reader,

No, I think the US Financiers, Housing Developers, and Investors learned a great deal. They learned that they wouldn't go to jail. This is a very important lesson.

Regards,
Roidy
75 oil   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 1, 10:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

The free market punishes irresponsibility. Government rewards it.
76 WineHorror   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 2, 11:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
No, actually that is none of the numbers I want. I'm looking for you to show where the $10T cost of the bailout is coming from. That link does not answer that.


Joey - I can't help but ridicule you over this. The bailout and the all the wreckage caused by the financial sector (see low interest rates to rob savers to help bankers and balance sheets) is all part of the "fix" that IS NOT BEING PAID BACK. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

This is why we bring up the 10T in added government debt. IT WAS CAUSED BY THE DOWNTURN CAUSED BY THE IRRESPONSIBILITY OF THE FINANCIAL SECTOR AND OUR CRONY GOVERNMENT.
77 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 2, 11:37am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WineHorror says
Joey - I can't help but ridicule you over this. The bailout and the all the wreckage caused by the financial sector (see low interest rates to rob savers to help bankers and balance sheets) is all part of the "fix" that IS NOT BEING PAID BACK. Why is that so hard for you to understand?


You can discuss, but you're not ridiculing. You wrongly attribute low interest rates to the bailout. With or without a bailout, interest rates would have gone to almost zero. The bailout had almost zero to do with it.

I understand perfectly and that's why I'm trying to educate folks about the true cost/benefit of the bailout specifically. You can't lump the bailout in with the crash/wreckage and then say that's why the bailout was bad.
79 NuttBoxer   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 2, 1:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anon_7c0c9 says
Maybe because if your system is ever increasing debt, nothing ever gets paid back? You don't live 200 years and the national debt has been increasing steadily since the 1960s so 60 years might as well be forever. I can accurately say for anyone currently alive, it has cost you nothing.


You didn't have that context in your original reply, so your statement at face value, was not true.

Since I have kids, and I love my kids, this is not acceptable logic for me. I plan on, to the extent that I am capable, making this world a better place when I left it then when I came into it. That means rejecting ridiculous debt that will cripple future generations for the sake of bailing out institutions, instead of holding the individuals in charge of those companies responsible, and prosecuting them under the law.
80 anon_acf85   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 2, 7:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
81 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 2, 7:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anon_acf85 says
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.


There is only one way to free a nation. Through a Secular Capitalistic Democracy.
Did you know Apple Inc, a product of America, is worth more than the entire stock market of Russia?
Did you know Venezuela has an average income of $28.00 per month, while we make that in an hour?
I bet you didn't.
82 anon_acf85   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 2, 7:14pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Whether the US is Communist, Socialist, Democratic, or Capitalist today does not change the fact that the USA is a
bankrupt warmongering police state.
83 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 2, 7:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anon_acf85 says
Whether the US is Communist, Socialist, Democratic, or Capitalist today does not change the fact that the USA is a
bankrupt warmongering police state.


If we were a bankrupt warmongering police state, like you confidently state, we would not:
Be the richest nation in the world.
Apple, just a single company being worth more than Russia (supposedly a superpower)
Hundreds of millions of people dying to get into the USA.
And you and your comrades would not want to stay in the USA.
84 oil   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 2, 7:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Does anyone feel like the US is the Twilight Zone today?

The USA is a bankrupt warmongering police state, but no one wants to talk about the collapse.

Americans would rather cover their ears and put their heads in the sand.

Now you know how the Germans must have felt in 1939.

Scary.

http://www.desototimes.com/opinion/columns_editorials/could-the-fourth-reich-happen-here/article_cb7cb93c-efbc-11e6-8a1f-5b019805ede4.html
http://www.startribune.com/trump-s-strategy-for-afghanistan-is-more-of-the-same/441453503/
http://nypost.com/2017/09/06/white-house-and-congress-agree-to-raise-debt-ceiling/
The US has a bankrupt Ponzi
economy.

The USA is not the richest country.

Foreigners come to the US because the US has open borders and they come from even poorer countries than the US. Just because Nigeria sucks does not mean that the USA is a free country.

The future is grim. Every country is a police state now so where can you flee?

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-23-richest-countries-in-the-world-2015-7
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2785905/China-overtakes-U-S-world-s-largest-economy-IMF-says-economy-worth-17-6trillion-America-falls-second-place-time-1872.html
http://markanderson.bangordailynews.com/2017/09/24/opinion/is-the-u-s-economy-one-big-ponzi-scheme/
85 APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   ignore (5)   2017 Nov 2, 9:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Wait until China calls the notes and says it will take payment in land and pussy.
86 anon_acf85   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 2, 9:22pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

If you could print all the money you wanted, and steal all the money you wanted, couldn’t you manage to stay out of debt?
87 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 3, 12:07am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Hitler is to Permabears/Minarchists (but I practically repeat myself) what Jesus or Aliens are to Cults.

Always right around the corner.

Only buying more gold and bitcoins can stop the coming of the 4th Reich!

I remember hearing Reagan, Bush the Elder, and Bush the Younger all called Hitler by the left in their day, too. Funny, the moment Obama replaced "W", all the whinging about the Patriot Act came to a halt. Obama spied on and arrested many reporters, hardly gave interviews, ran the most secretive administration since god-knows-when, but the media was still worshipful.

That being said, Obama wasn't Stalin, he was too much of a pussy and too inept. He was more like a stupidly idealistic 1960s third world Leader. Like them he had national and international sycophants among the Elite Classes. Oh, Kukume Mayfuso, you are the great leader of people power! Oh you're going to lead Kakaswaziziland into a bright future with your Mega-Dam!
88 oil   ignore (4)   2017 Nov 3, 12:19am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

The US is a bankrupt warmongering police state now. Many Americans want to blame Communists, Nazis, blacks, Jews, Muslims, feminists, or illegal immigrants for the collapse of the USA, but if Americans really want to know who to blame, they just need to look in the mirror.

The scary thing is not that the Jews or
Freemasons are controlling the world. What is terrifying is that no one is running the world.

The US is rigged. Since the USA is a police state, Americans are wondering how to resist. Voting doesn't work. Protesting is illegal. An armed rebellion would probably be crushed.

Perhaps one way for Americans to fight back is to just drop out and stop complying.

Why pay taxes or obey the law when the government doesn't?

They can't kill us all. If everything is illegal and everyone is a criminal, then there aren't enough prisons for everyone.

Don't buy health insurance.

Don't buy car liability insurance.

Don't get a driver's license.

Don't get a business license.

Don't use seatbelts.

The only reason the system has power is because everyone obeys and thinks it's legitimate, but the government has lost the consent of the people.

No one rules if no one obeys.

A law doesn't mean justice.

Burn it down. Burn it to the ground.

http://www.history.com/topics/french-revolution
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/22/yes-in-the-u-s-the-people-can-reject-a-president-if-theyre-convinced-hes-a-tyrant/?utm_term=.e84aab6b3d40
89 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 3, 12:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I think oil is like that other bot that Patrick banned. That "Desotonews" link goes to the same article that robot that was driving @WookieMan nuts.

Anyway, nothing says opposition to TYRANNY! than rejecting seat belt laws, and especially speed limits, those rapacious tools of cruel absolutism.
90 anon_c1e56   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 3, 2:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Maybe the issue isn't that Americans shouldn't use
seatbelts, perhaps the point is that Americans
should resist by disobeying nanny state laws.
91 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 3, 7:48am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
robot that was driving @WookieMan nuts.

I just checked this thread on another browser. Glad I ignored Oil and surprised he's only got 5 so far. Pure rubbish what that bot or copy/past troll puts up here. Will use ignore sparingly, but if it's clear the person isn't real or won't literally participate in the dialog, then goodbye.
92 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 3, 6:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says
I just checked this thread on another browser. Glad I ignored Oil and surprised he's only got 5 so far. Pure rubbish what that bot or copy/past troll puts up here. Will use ignore sparingly, but if it's clear the person isn't real or won't literally participate in the dialog, then goodbye.


Go easy on him. He just needs a couple of more bottles before he passes out.
94 anon_25c83   ignore (2)   2017 Nov 3, 7:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

oil says
The US is rigged. Since the USA is a police state, Americans are wondering how to resist. Voting doesn't work. Protesting is illegal. An armed rebellion would probably be crushed.


Yet you're still here in this obvious hellscape where most Americans still go to work and pay the rent and screw every weekend and worry more about their credit card bills than the 1 in 10 million chance they will be shot by a cop.

Why are you here?
95 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 3, 7:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anon_25c83 says
Yet you're still here in this obvious hellscape where most Americans still go to work and pay the rent and screw every weekend and worry more about their credit card bills than the 1 in 10 million chance they will be shot by a cop.

Why are you here?


Welfare.
96 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Nov 3, 10:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says
He just needs a couple of more bottles

of ether?

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