Ultimate Selfish Act
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Ultimate Selfish Act

By WookieMan following x   2017 Aug 27, 8:41pm 1,521 views   40 comments   watch   quote     share  


Patnetters...what are your thoughts? Brother-in-law killed himself today. Wife and I are personally upset, but also angry. Straight shooter guy, no illicit activity, has two young kids. Anyone deal with this type of suicide? The world is a fucked up place I suppose.

We were booked for a trip leaving Wednesday as well. First vacation we had insurance for if we cancel. Pretty sure we're going to cancel at this point. It's rather mind numbing how fast life can flip you on your head.

It's been a rather surreal day so far. Please check on anyone you think is off their rocker. I don't want today to happen to anyone else if it can be avoided.
1 Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 8:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Woah, sorry to hear that.
2 marcus   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 8:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

marcus says
Selfish Act


I agree very much that it's morally wrong, especially if people were dependent on him. But I would try not to judge (implied by "selfish") something brought on essentially by brain chemistry, that is by something you or I (fortunately) can not fully comprehend or empathize with.

On the other hand, policies of our government the last few decades have impacted inequality and the sense of hopelessness some experience, which can lead to the depressed mental state beyond our comprehension. And that's something I do judge our plutocracy, politicians and gullible electorate for. There are far too many suicides these days.

Echoing Patrick - sorry for your and your wife's loss.
3 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 9:13pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

marcus says

I agree very much that it's morally wrong, especially if people were dependent on him. But I would try not to judge (implied by "selfish") something brought on essentially by brain chemistry, that is by something you or I (fortunately) can not fully comprehend or empathize with.

I try not to judge. But the BIL was about as straight a shooter as you'll find. No signs of anything you would think was off.

First time I've been hit by the suicide bug, if that's what you want to call it. It's a real eye opener, that's for sure.

Thanks for the sentiments.

4 Patrick   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 9:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

No explanation in a note?

5 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 9:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patrick says

No explanation in a note?

Nope. I wish. It's the strangest feeling I've had as an adult. I didn't tell my kids exactly what happened, but Jesus man, it's been a rough day. Two weeks ago we all went camping together. Rented a boat. Not a fucking peep and we were close enough that if something was giving him a hard time he would have told me.

6 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 9:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I have this feeling of calm now, but also anger. Cancer is one thing. My old man has that and when that call comes I'm okay with it and so is he. That call this morning is like nothing I've ever experienced. It's the gut punch you weren't expecting. I keep going back to surreal. That's the only way I can explain it at this point.

7 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 27, 9:48pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says

I try not to judge. But the BIL was about as straight a shooter as you'll find. No signs of anything you would think was off.

You never can know. I had a friend who's uncle killed himself. Turned out only his best friend knew, not even his wife (who only remembered a few strange calls), but he had been getting death threats for years.

Nobody, not even his Best Friend, knew the why, and when I mean years I mean decades, it must have been something that happened when he was in his 20s.

You never know what can come up to make somebody kill themselves.

8 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 27, 9:50pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

One other point - Robin Williams.

Turned out now he was diagnosed with Alzheimers or Dementia. The (increasing severity) of his Depression was mostly because of that diagnosis; he didn't not want to forget and become a vegetable.

One thing to check would be to see if he saw a doctor recently.

9 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 9:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says

You never know what can come up to make somebody kill themselves.

I know that now. Humans are fucked up, that's for sure. Hasn't hit this close to home for sure. Lesson learned for me is ask questions. Probably couldn't have changed anything. But maybe if I had asked I would have found out.

10 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 10:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says

One thing to check would be to see if he saw a doctor recently.

That's being looked into along with some other things. Either way, 35 year old dude doing relatively well doesn't just off himself normally. Bad days don't look so bad after today. Enjoy your kids. Have a beer. This spinning ball we're all on has a weird way of dumping us off of it whether we like it or not.

11 curious2   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 27, 10:14pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

One thing to check would be to see if he saw a doctor recently.

That's being looked into along with some other things.

Check for SSRIs, some of which double suicidality. Check both Rx records and any actual bottles, because pharmacy errors can kill too. Government "helpers" tend to seize Rx bottles, but you will want to know exactly what's in them.

Alternatively, as 2Scoops suggested, check for recent diagnoses. And, check for life insurance and any recent trouble at work. Sometimes, a person can decide he's worth more to his family dead than alive, and sometimes that can be true.

None of us can live forever. 100 years from now, we'll probably all be gone, and none of these little Patfights (online catfights) will matter, even if NSA Total Information Awareness wastes money preserving them. It's just a ride.

Dane Cook's "Karaoke Kevin" SNL monologue might help.

12 jacksprat   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 10:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Wookie man, I feel for your loss: the void thus created lasts until you die and when the last person who knew him dies.
----
In 1981 , i was working in IT in a company that my father was personnel manager, and I got a call from my mother who asked me to tell my father that my brother had committed suicide, as she could not tell him herself.

I have that void of my brother. . .

13 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 27, 10:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

No meds involved. Didn't have life insurance. Looks like someone seriously depressed and we all had no clue. I quite honestly hope there's another explanation for it. I will update if there is. At this point, just seems like he didn't dig spinning on the earth at this point in time.

14 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 28, 7:27am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says

marcus says

I agree very much that it's morally wrong, especially if people were dependent on him. But I would try not to judge (implied by "selfish") something brought on essentially by brain chemistry, that is by something you or I (fortunately) can not fully comprehend or empathize with.

I try not to judge. But the BIL was about as straight a shooter as you'll find. No signs of anything you would think was off.

I am very sorry this happened to your family.
But I think Marcus is right here. I'm sure your BIL loved his kids and would never want to hurt them. He just wasn't in a right state of mind to think clearly at that crucial moment.
Let go of your anger and concentrate on helping his kids.

15 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 28, 7:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Patnetters...what are your thoughts? Brother-in-law killed himself today.

-------------

Sometimes there's value in keeping family matters private, until you know the full story. Don't rush to judge.

Take a lesson from the suicide: this too shall pass. Often it is in the moment when things seem so extreme and intense, and with a little time, things find their level.

Personally, I've always found the most value in keeping family business in house. This is really no one else's business, especially not so important as to share with the world the day of. This isn't Facebook

16 P N Dr Lo R   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 28, 8:28am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says

I quite honestly hope there's another explanation for it. I will update if there is.

There will or shoud be a complete forensic investigation to rule out foul play which in this instance might give a bit of relief if it turned out to be the case--but that would open a whole other realm of tragedy if it were.

17 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 3:41pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says
Let go of your anger and concentrate on helping his kids.

I'll admit my anger was of the selfish variety and what you mention about helping the kids is the plan. And obviously he wasn't in the right state of mind, hence what happened.
errc says

Sometimes there's value in keeping family matters private, until you know the full story. Don't rush to judge.


Take a lesson from the suicide: this too shall pass. Often it is in the moment when things seem so extreme and intense, and with a little time, things find their level.


Personally, I've always found the most value in keeping family business in house. This is really no one else's business, especially not so important as to share with the world the day of. This isn't Faceboo


I hear you. While this is in public, it's also anonymous. I probably could have kept it to myself, but I guess I was just interested if anyone else has handled or dealt with a similar situation. I can't post on facebook what I really feel about the situation without massive backlash. The headline to the post could be misleading and was a little harsh. I get that. I just get mentally restless in situations like this and for me it's an outlet. Maybe pnet could have been an outlet for my brother in law is the way I look at it. Sometimes, even in this crazy forum, just talking about something out loud so to speak is therapeutic.
18 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 29, 3:48pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

That's the great benefit of anonymous, untracked speech. Get to vent or ask for advice without undesired meatspace consequences.
19 Ceffer   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 29, 3:55pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

The appetite for the void is as mysterious as the appetite for life.
20 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 4:11pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Well as far as good news can be had in this situation, we've helped to get the funeral costs covered at this point in time (not my wife and I, but we set up a memorial for people to donate to, which we of course donated to). It's just really a cluster fuck as we go through this though and that's why I vented here. Things are definitely better as far as anything can go in this situation. I just figured maybe some more people had dealt with this. I'm in my 30's and it hasn't happened to anyone within any sphere of influence I have have. You hear about all the famous one's, and it happens a lot, but it seems like from what I've experienced talking to people that suicide really doesn't impact that many people. I guess I'm surprised.
21 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Aug 29, 4:26pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sorry!

Let my think of all the ways I can make a judgment call without reading someone's mind & walking in their shoes.
My moral value opinions trump everyone.
We've been killing each other & ourselves for quite a while.
Which is the greater virtue,killing oneself ,slowly or quickly?
How many Americans,addicted,sick,hungry & homeless will die in this 24 hour period? How many will be found dead in Houston?
Tunnel vision allows one to miss the forest.

Around 50 years ago,another old codger told me: "I don't remember having a say about showing up here but I can leave anytime I choose."
A different O.C said : "I'm living forever & making everyone miserable."





22 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 4:38pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

HEY YOU says
Sorry!

Let my think of all the ways I can make a judgment call without reading someone's mind & walking in their shoes.

Man, I'm not upset, but I have no idea how to interpret your writing style. There's obviously a thick layer of sarcasm in most of them. But I truly don't understand what you just typed in. Like I kind of get it, but it's just strange. More power to you, it's just not up my alley.
23 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 29, 4:44pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
That's the great benefit of anonymous, untracked speech. Get to vent or ask for advice without undesired meatspace consequences.


I attempted to convey this to Patrick numerous times. He gave it a try here, then quickly went back to kindergarten

Ironically, within weeks, he himself scrubbed his post history, and went anonymous. Lol.

I'm always a day early and a dollar snort
24 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 29, 4:49pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

It's funny how in this country, people are hell bent on blaming liberals for everything, even though pretty much all the problems can be traced to Puritan Right Wingers and their horrific policies. A lot of people in this forum, enjoy Freedom those of us in other states do not, and they owe thanks solely to Liberals! Colorado and California both now allow the freedom to self medicate with flowers, and the right to end your life on your own terms, two things the mindless Sharia Conservative Christian Right is vastly opposed to; to the point they will imprison you for it! Lol you can't make this shit up.

What's it like in your country, Thunderlips? Can people choose when to die? Can they consume flowers without risking imprisonment?
25 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 29, 5:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
What's it like in your country, Thunderlips? Can people choose when to die? Can they consume flowers without risking imprisonment?


Weed should be legal, if just for the reason that pot people can smoke themselves into silence and stop spouting that marijuana legalization is the sole issue upon which all of society, the future of the human race, and Freedom! pivots.

Poppy is a flower too. And yes, people should be free to dose themselves with that, too.

Some people would benefit from eating a large quantity of Jimsonweed flowers.
26 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Aug 29, 6:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I've had times in the past where I thought the best solution was the final solution. Never acted on it or gave any hint to those around me. Just a small tip in the wrong direction could have left my family/friends asking questions and feeling hurt. Part of the male identity is projecting strength right up to the bitter end.

27 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 29, 6:43pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
errc says
What's it like in your country, Thunderlips? Can people choose when to die? Can they consume flowers without risking imprisonment?


Weed should be legal, if just for the reason that pot people can smoke themselves into silence and stop spouting that marijuana legalization is the sole issue upon which all of society, the future of the human race, and Freedom! pivots.

Poppy is a flower too. And yes, people should be free to dose themselves with that, too.

Some people would benefit from eating a large quantity of Jimsonweed flowers.


Is that how it is in your country where you live?



Weed should be legal, if just for the reason that pot people can smoke themselves into silence and stop spouting that marijuana legalization is the sole issue upon which all of society, the future of the human race, and Freedom! pivots.

Damn, that sounds smug and dismissive. Are there really "pot people " like that?


28 mell   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 29, 7:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

null says
I've had times in the past where I thought the best solution was the final solution. Never acted on it or gave any hint to those around me. Just a small tip in the wrong direction could have left my family/friends asking questions and feeling hurt. Part of the male identity is projecting strength right up to the bitter end.


Great post. Very true.
29 TwoScoopsMcGee   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 29, 7:12pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

errc says
Is that how it is in your country where you live?

Nope, in this Country people just smuggle the drugs to sell to bored Suburban and Coastie NorteAmericanos to smoke and snort.. They don't do the shit themselves.

errc says
Damn, that sounds smug and dismissive. Are there really "pot people " like that?

Yes, there are people whose lives revolve around Marijuana legalization being the end all of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. I'm for legalization, but some are one-issue voters. Yet they still have odd voting preferences, such as preferring an old hag whose entire political career was based on filling privatized prisons with non-viloent drug users.
30 PeopleUnited   ignore (2)   2017 Aug 29, 7:24pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

@Wookieman

I'm sorry to hear of your BIL. I hope your wife and her family will be strong in moving forward with this gift of life and the new responsibility you all have now.

About 10 years ago a friend of mine did just the same thing. Leaving behind a wife and 4 kids. It is really hard to know just what he was going through. I wouldn't have suspected anything. It was shocking. It was tragic. It was final. And that is what makes it so hard.

There is a lesson for everyone here and I won't preach but rather just pray that God will use this event to further His will for you and everyone here.

John Chapter 11

Jesus Comforts the Sisters of Lazarus
17 On his arrival, Jesus found that Lazarus had already been in the tomb for four days. 18 Now Bethany was less than two miles[b] from Jerusalem, 19 and many Jews had come to Martha and Mary to comfort them in the loss of their brother. 20 When Martha heard that Jesus was coming, she went out to meet him, but Mary stayed at home.

21 “Lord,” Martha said to Jesus, “if you had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

27 “Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
31 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 7:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

PeopleUnited says
About 10 years ago a friend of mine did just the same thing. Leaving behind a wife and 4 kids. It is really hard to know just what he was going through. I wouldn't have suspected anything. It was shocking. It was tragic. It was final. And that is what makes it so hard.

And this is kind of what I was looking for in a way. Almost a validation that it just happens. Since I started the original post feelings have changed, that's for sure. But the way you write it, even 10 years later, it still just doesn't make sense. Suicide is common enough, but I don't actually think that many people experience it on a a very close level. It doesn't make sense and I'll quite possibly never make sense of it, even 10 years from now from today. I just don't get how to help that person that is so tormented and they can't even tell you. You don't know. They know. And BOOM! They make shit real, really quick.
32 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 7:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

My headline sucks and comes across as I'm a dick. I am. But if there's one lesson from all this. If you have a trip planned for over $5k, get the damn insurance. Just do it. You don't know what's going to happen in the future. We could have lost a substantial amount of money, but due to our trip location being in FL during hurricane season, we got the insurance. $110. We could have gotten massively burned by not going if we didn't have the insurance or had to go on a trip when the whole family is in massive mourning mode. No good outcome, but we were able to cancel everything and not cost a dime.
33 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 7:52pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says

And this is kind of what I was looking for in a way. Almost a validation that it just happens. Since I started the original post feelings have changed, that's for sure. But the way you write it, even 10 years later, it still just doesn't make sense. Suicide is common enough, but I don't actually think that many people experience it on a a very close level. It doesn't make sense and I'll quite possibly never make sense of it, even 10 years from now from today. I just don't get how to help that person that is so tormented and they can't even tell you. You don't know. They know. And BOOM! They make shit real, really quick.

WookiMan, I am sure you are going through a lot of emotions. Your wife, those kids, your BIL's family, parents are going through a lot too.
Just do what you should do, and your stress will go down.
34 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Aug 29, 8:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Doesn't come across as a dick. Comes across as someone in a situation that shouldn't happen. Why should anyone in the Western world take their life when we have it so good compared to the rest of the world? It doesn't make sense, but it is still real. People in what appears to be decent situations can still be desperately unhappy. Act forward for the family, but glance rearward for learning. Sadness might have a genetic component.
35 jvolstad   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 8:08pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

One of the veterans I work with at the VA Hospital (I'm a volunteer) committed suicide. It's sad. The VA tried to help him, but it was too little too late.

Become a VA Volunteer. It will change your life forever.
36 WookieMan   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 29, 8:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says

WookiMan, I am sure you are going through a lot of emotions. Your wife, those kids, your BIL's family, parents are going through a lot too.
Just do what you should do, and your stress will go down.

Honestly emotions are at level zero now (in a good way). What can I (we) do? I am doing everything I can do to help move forward. Sunday morning when I got word seems like ancient history now. I think I got word by paper mail and hieroglyphs when it happened it feels like.
jvolstad says
Become a VA Volunteer. It will change your life forever.

I appreciate what you do. I don't think I could do it and am glad there are people out there like you. Have a buddy (I'm younger) that did a trip to Afghanistan. I know for a fact he lost some people that he would call friends, albeit only knowing them through the military (if that makes a difference). Old or young, I don't think some people realize, for good or bad, what some veterans have gone through or will go through.
null says
Act forward for the family, but glance rearward for learning. Sadness might have a genetic component

Not sure if this is a quote from someone else, but either way I dig it. Thanks for sharing.
37 Blurtman   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 30, 4:36am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

WookieMan says
Honestly emotions are at level zero now (in a good way). What can I (we) do?


Time will heal all, as much as it can. My brother-in-law committed suicide over a decade ago. 40's, single, outdoorsman. Hung himself.

My wife was devastated. Her dad, totally devastated. He still cries about it.

He had financial issues. Had to relo to a new state where he didn't have a support network. Hated his mother, who was a terrible parent, and that left scars.

No one knew he was depressed. Hindsight might be 20/20, but you just don't know, you aren't a trained psychologist.

Just support your wife and family members and enjoy the gift of life.
38 CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2017 Aug 30, 5:03am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

So sorry for your family man.

Try to remember him with empathy, rather than blame him. Forgive him and move on as best you can.

God bless.
39 lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Aug 30, 5:36am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It is what it is. Sometimes the pain in life is way too much to bear in that instant and the bliss of the eternal seems a better choice. We all will go to that place someday and can't carry any of our physical possessions along.

Sometimes I think us humans are no better than the ants scurrying around-with their roles and queens and soldiers and territories-Albie with a little more knowledge and skills. In the grand scale of things, not that much of a difference. Hopefully your brother-in-laws wife finds the strength to carry on and be there for the kids. Kids are surprisingly resilient. May he rest in peace. I don't think it is selfish-just there are parts of us that drive us, that we normally don't express. The rational mind is but a small part of us and in the western world that is considered the only reality.
40 steverbeaver   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 2, 6:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Sadly this is something I have had to deal with. I will not discuss it further on this board, but if you get in private contact with me I can offer some support and guidance to deal with into the ride you are in for. Kind of like an AA sponsor but for even more fucked up shit. Not sure how to PM on this board, but we can find a way. I would have posted earlier but my computer had some hardware problems. Otherwise, best of luck.

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