Corporate tax breaks do NOT create jobs
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Corporate tax breaks do NOT create jobs

By anonymous following x   2017 Sep 4, 10:59am 1,163 views   52 comments   watch   quote     share    


Can we please put an end to this obvious myth?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/14284462/1/corporate-tax-cuts-promote-ceo-pay-raises-and-stock-buybacks-not-jobs.html
"Researchers looked at 92 publicly-held companies that reported a U.S. profit from 2008 to 2015 and paid a federal income tax of less than 20%, the rate proposed by House Republicans, by exploiting loopholes in the current tax code.

The 92 companies examined saw median job growth of negative 1% over an eight-year period, compared to 6% across the entire U.S. private sector. Moreover, half of those firms eliminated jobs during that time, downsizing by a combined total of 483,000 jobs.

At the same time, average CEO pay among the 92 firms rose by 18%, compared to a 13% increase across the entire S&P 500"

But, cutting corporate tax rates would ABSOLUTELY enrich Trump himself. When the Trumpcucks realize that he cares not for the average American. Everything he does, he does for one reason alone. To enrich himself and his family.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-promised-put-american-workers-142940732.html
is another interesting article detailing how Trump has screwed the American worker but helped his businesses.

#MAGA

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13   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 1:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

FortWayne says
Yes we both agree, you are hopeless.


I'll take that to mean you cannot express why you think I'm incorrect.
14   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says


They started this study right in the middle of the Great Recession. Now who had this bright idea?


That actually biases the study toward job creation. Coming out of a severe recession hiring picks up a lot.
15   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

FortWayne says
Yes we both agree, you are hopeless.


Great job making your case. I really like all the research you've presented and the careful examination of the facts. LOL.
16   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says

WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses.


That argues even further against corporate tax breaks for job creation doesn't it?
17   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

joeyjojojunior says

Yep, and taxes are on PROFITS.

Actually higher tax rates encourages investment, which actually does create jobs. If you want more jobs, you should be pro-higher corporate tax rates.


Corporate tax breaks are spent on stock buybacks, executive compensation, and stockholder dividends. That's been researched and documented many times.

A worthwhile read would be Flying High: The Story of Boeing and the Rise of the Jetliner Industry by Eugene Rodgers which documents in great detail Boeing's business decisions at various levels of taxation. A 20% tax rate in the 60's would have meant no 747 or 737 which have been the backbone of Boeing's profits and jobs for over 40 years. The decision to invest in the development of these planes was driven by the higher tax rates at the time.
18   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 3:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses. You can always work for them, or start your own business.


99% of them are paying rent, paying off professional organizations like realtors and lawyers, and giving tithe to the aristocracy in other ways as well. In the small town I used to live in, you weren't allowed to open a business unless you belonged to the downtown improvement district.

However even if we ignore all those money drains, you're assuming that there's a small business left in the United States that can't be corporatized and gobbled up like WalMart was so successful at doing. Small business exists at the mercy of the aristocracy like everything else and the standard of living a small business owner can enjoy is barely middle class.

I know because I still operate a small business.
19   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 4:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Yeah right, lets raise taxes and give it to the Gubmnt workers-when is enough enough?? Village managers making 300k a year with full pension at those rates or ya want 500k a year.

In today's globalized world, it is complex. If you had a big business and had to run a factory/establishment here and face all the rules, regulations, equal employment, affirmative action, blah, blah or instead you could just shift the whole thing to China or India-where people work 7 days a week, sleep in the factory, go home 2-3 times a year for holidays and no rules and regulations and then bring the [product back into the US for free with no taxes-what would you do. Even if there is only a 10% difference, you would escape all the regulatory/democrat headaches.

Either reduce regulations and/or start mandating all products shipped to US must meet the regulatory hell we go through. We need new ideas-I am excited by trump's tax overhaul-lets see.
20   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 4:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

lostand confused says
Yeah right, lets raise taxes and give it to the Gubmnt workers-when is enough enough??


You're cutting taxes on billionaires. Men with enough wealth to outright purchase entire states. This only ends in one place and we've been there before: The aristocracy owning everything and workers are forced to accept whatever scraps they are willing to share. I outright defy you to explain in a zero sum economy, in that there's only one earth with so much productive land, YOUR system ends up in any other place.

lostand confused says
you could just shift the whole thing to China or India-where people work 7 days a week, sleep in the factory, go home 2-3 times a year for holidays and no rules and regulations and then bring the [product back into the US for free with no taxes-what would you do.


The plan you are voting for is to create those conditions here domestically so we don't have to import from China.

1890 much?

Y'all are never going to learn.
21   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Sep 4, 4:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Anyone that is for any taxes is a SOCIALIST.
Anyone that is not worth at least a $trillion is a failure.
Go ahead & make excuses for you incompetence.
You are happy with your debt and having to work most of your life
for a pittance compared to America's Rich and you don't want more than what you have.
Nice try.
22   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 4:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Those in favor of the biggest government excesses, the people who want a huge military and wars and walls and mass deportations, are always the same people who want drastic tax cuts.

At least Democrats have the brains to be consistent and advocate taxes to pay for what they spend. That's why Bill Clinton had a balanced budget while Republicans are budget destroyers.
23   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 5:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
The plan you are voting for is to create those conditions here domestically so we don't have to import from China.

1890 much?

Y'all are never going to learn

So what is your alternative. Welfare for all the displaced workers from TPP, NAFTA free trade deals?? What I am saying is we need new ideas, make it that any goods or services brought into the uSA needs to meet all regulatory burdens we face and employ an army of auditors to go to those countries and check or some such.
The current model allows unfettered imports from any place in the world, but nothing for the displaced folks. Which is why trump won. Now he may , may not deliver-but the issue is not going away. What do you do with tens and tens of millions of low skilled workers. the Raise act is good.

I wish the dialogue would shift from the current shill democrats to a debate on policy. the republicans are talking and proposing to do something. the dems-racist, racist, bring billiosn from third world here , ship out everything, racist, racist.
24   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 5:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

lostand confused says
So what is your alternative.


Every fucking time you state this question I give you the proven answer.

1. Tariffs, what Donald Trump promises but he's lying and you bought it
2. A TRULY progressive tax system and a return to a 38% capital gains tax rate like we had during the most successful years of the United States empire.
3. Raise the minimum wage back to where it belongs. A wage that can support one person in the cheapest apartment, food, and basic medical care. Right now WalMart employees get their food and medical care from your fucking government because YOU voted for right to work states. Most welfare is all your fault.
4. Dramatic cuts to the military. We do not need 12 nuclear powered super-carrier task forces when one single carrier group can defeat an entire country. Enough is enough but Republicans will never say no to more war. Most Republicans still haven't atoned for supporting the Iraq war and washed that blood from their hands.
5. A total eradication of the Republican cancer. You people are destroying America and even rubbing your face in Donald Trump verbally assaulting his brand new chief of staff isn't going to convince you that Trump isn't a massive blithering idiot who can't even manage a McDonald's. How you can tolerate this asinine administration is beyond comprehension.

Basically the same rules as that hell hole Germany. God forbid anyone have to live there.
25   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 5:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

bob2356 says
Strategist says

WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses.


That argues even further against corporate tax breaks for job creation doesn't it?


Not really. When a large company expands production it creates a multiplier effect. A lot of it's work gets subcontracted to small businesses. Workers also spend their money on homes, cars, groceries etc creating lots of jobs for mom and pop stores.
26   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 5:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says
Not really. When a large company expands production it creates a multiplier effect. A lot of it's work gets subcontracted to small businesses. Workers also spend their money on homes, cars, groceries etc creating lots of jobs for mom and pop stores.


No one gets rich operating a small business and that small business is always at the mercy of the landlord.

A restaurant named Pitar's that had been in business for 50 years in Lafayette and was crowded every night was forced to close because the landlord jacked up the rent.

We did the bankruptcy.
27   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 5:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Strategist says
WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses. You can always work for them, or start your own business.


99% of them are paying rent, paying off professional organizations like realtors and lawyers, and giving tithe to the aristocracy in other ways as well. In the small town I used to live in, you weren't allowed to open a business unless you belonged to the downtown improvement district.

I assume you mean rent for business premises.

iwog says
However even if we ignore all those money drains, you're assuming that there's a small business left in the United States that can't be corporatized and gobbled up like WalMart was so successful at doing. Small business exists at the mercy of the aristocracy like everything else and the standard of living a small business owner can enjoy is barely middle class.

So what. 80% are still employed by small businesses. If a large company buys them out, the owners can retire on the beach.
Almost all major businesses start small. Apple, Amazon started in a garage.
A small business is generally defined as having a hundred employees or less.
28   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 5:54pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says
Almost all major businesses start small. Apple, Amazon started in a garage.


I just love it when people bring up the Apple analogy. It's like an event that occurs once in a hundred million attempts disproves the other 99,999,999 failures.

You know a McDonald's franchise is deemed a small business too right? Who do you think makes the most money there?
29   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 5:56pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
very fucking time you state this question I give you the proven answer.

1. Tariffs, what Donald Trump promises but he's lying and you bought it
2. A TRULY progressive tax system and a return to a 38% capital gains tax rate like we had during the most successful years of the United States empire.
3. Raise the minimum wage back to where it belongs. A wage that can support one person in the cheapest apartment, food, and basic medical care. Right now WalMart employees get their food and medical care from your fucking government because YOU voted for right to work states. Most welfare is all your fault.
4. Dramatic cuts to the military. We do not need 12 nuclear powered super-carrier task forces when one single carrier group can defeat an entire country. Enough is enough but Republicans will never say no to more war. Most Republicans still haven't atoned for supporting the Iraq war and washed that blood from their hands.
5. A total eradication of the Rep...


Every time you are wrong-because your partisan mind is stuck in one gear and one gear only.

Tarriffs alone are not the answer. Regulations too-eithe rmake them live by our regulations, or cut down our regualtions

Raising minimum wage while allowing unlimited illegals is just dumb. Either get rid of illegals and cut down on low skilled immigrtaion and then work on minimum wage. Why would you pay soemone a 20 bucks an hour minimum wage when you cna hire someone for 5 bucks with no unemployment and myriad number of regulations.
Military can be cut-starting with thsoe 17 intelligence agencies

yeah yeah, republicans ended the tPP and a republican President is renegotiating NAFTA and is Dear Lord talking about America first.

Dems want the world first, let in the illegals, low skilled labor, racist. You don't understand the middle of the country and at some point if you continue with this insanity will start losing some coastal areas too. Oh and stop with this holier than thou I know all attitude-that si something the dems are famous for.
30   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 6:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Obama and the dems are like Queen Marie Antoinette of France. When the broken, hopeless people came to him for help, he said go get training-while negotiating the tPP -the you talk about tarriffs.
31   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 6:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
You know a McDonald's franchise is deemed a small business too right? Who do you think makes the most money there?


The franchise owner makes the most money from his store, which is why they keep trying to buy more franchises. Only a small portion of the sales go to the franchisee.
Some 90% of new businesses fail in the first year. Only 5% of franchises fail in the first year. The franchisee has the name brand and has gone through the learning curve in operating a successful store.
32   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 6:20pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says

I just love it when people bring up the Apple analogy. It's like an event that occurs once in a hundred million attempts disproves the other 99,999,999 failures.


Ha ha ha. Everyone can't be a billionaire.
Do you realize a male when ejaculating sends out 250 million sperm all in search of that one little egg. Aren't you glad you won?
33   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 6:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

lostand confused says
Every time you are wrong-because your partisan mind is stuck in one gear and one gear only.


So which era do you think is a better model than modern Germany or 1950s America? 1890?

I'm asking now seriously because I don't think you have an answer.
34   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 6:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says
The franchise owner makes the most money from his store, which is why they keep trying to buy more franchises. Only a small portion of the sales go to the franchisee.
Some 90% of new businesses fail in the first year. Only 5% of franchises fail in the first year. The franchisee has the name brand and has gone through the learning curve in operating a successful store.


Do you know any franchise owners? I do and they aren't millionaires. They are also at the whim of a market they have no control over.

Anyone been to a Doggie Diner lately? A fast food franchise is just BARELY capital. Who owns the land? Who owns the monopoly on food supplies? Who controls how you run the business?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doggie_Diner
35   Onvacation   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 6:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says

With few exceptions, no one works unless these people allow them to work. The control of the top capitalists over the economy is total. You cannot work unless they deem fit you're allowed to work.

You are so cynical.
I wish I could say you are wrong.
36   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 6:48pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Onvacation says
You are so cynical.
I wish I could say you are wrong.


I'm practical.

We're facing the same crisis that Rome faced when the last productive labor in the empire was allocated to either slaves or mercenaries.

Republicans just want to pour more gasoline on the fire and burn it all down. They have no idea what they are doing and even when I pose these questions, they never address them.
37   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 6:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

lostand confused says
Dems want the world first, let in the illegals, low skilled labor, racist.


Who just signed legislation doubling the number of unskilled visas issued every year?

Answer this fucking question. I dare you.
38   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 7:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Oh please you and your stupid little games. The country is burning and you play word smith games. Ok dems and corporate republics-you cna see the fury on the sites like breitbart and gateway pundit on that decision. There is a reason that repubs have been through so much churn-because their base has had enough-Trump may , may not deliver- this issuewill not go away and will explode. You keep palying these gamnes-the base is mad at the corporate repubs as much as dems and have been trying to get different type of candidates-the dems do nothing-all you wnat bring in millions of illegals -racist, racist,r acist.
39   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 7:33pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
Strategist says
The franchise owner makes the most money from his store, which is why they keep trying to buy more franchises. Only a small portion of the sales go to the franchisee.
Some 90% of new businesses fail in the first year. Only 5% of franchises fail in the first year. The franchisee has the name brand and has gone through the learning curve in operating a successful store.


Do you know any franchise owners? I do and they aren't millionaires. They are also at the whim of a market they have no control over.

Anyone been to a Doggie Diner lately? A fast food franchise is just BARELY capital. Who owns the land? Who owns the monopoly on food supplies? Who controls how you run the business?


Who said franchise owners are supposed to be millionaires? Some will be, while others won't. It's just another business opportunity that the wonders of capitalism offers? If you don't like it, don't take it.
How many millionaires are there in socialist Venezuela and Cuba? Just a couple....those who rule.
40   Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 7:35pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says
lostand confused says
Dems want the world first, let in the illegals, low skilled labor, racist.


Who just signed legislation doubling the number of unskilled visas issued every year?

Answer this fucking question. I dare you.


If we got rid of welfare, we would not need foreigners to do hard work.
41   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Sep 4, 8:55pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

iwog says

I just love it when people bring up the Apple analogy. It's like an event that occurs once in a hundred million attempts disproves the other 99,999,999 failures.


And what's wrong with that? Do you realize each ejaculation during sex causes 250 million sperm to battle for that one little egg with only one winner? Aren't you glad you were the winner?
42   BorderPatrol   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 10:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

for most businesses, expanding simply means stealing other businesses' customers. this might be good for those that expand (like Amazon) but it is bad for those that will be out of business. Amazon didn't improve the country's economy. they took revenues from other stores, online and offline.

for companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, expanding can mean really great new products that the rest of the world wants (what will really grows the economy). but these companies are relatively a small portion of the economy.

using higher tax rates to force companies to expand will make them move offshore even more. a lot of one sided views in here.
43   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Sep 5, 5:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Trump is Bob Rumson.

"I've known Bob Rumson for years, and I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Bob devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it. Well, I was wrong. Bob's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Bob's problem is that he can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and character."

Only instead of the President's girlfriend, he uses illegal aliens.
44   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 5:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Strategist says
bob2356 says
Strategist says

WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses.


That argues even further against corporate tax breaks for job creation doesn't it?


Not really. When a large company expands production it creates a multiplier effect. A lot of it's work gets subcontracted to small businesses. Workers also spend their money on homes, cars, groceries etc creating lots of jobs for mom and pop stores.


Want to show the correlation between corporate tax cuts and corporations expanding production?
45   Feux Follets   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 5, 6:11am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

Here’s What Happened When Companies Were Given a Tax Break on Overseas Profits. P

Part of the tax plan President Donald Trump unveiled this week includes giving companies breaks on profits earned overseas, an idea that has provided little economic benefit in previous attempts.

The move would allow corporations to bring those earnings back home at a sharply reduced rate.

A similar effort more than a decade ago provided a nice windfall for firms, which then passed along most of it to shareholders in the form of share buybacks and dividends. The effort provided little in the way of hiring and in fact saw some of the beneficiaries actually cut payrolls.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2017/08/31/
46   errc   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 5, 6:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

lostand confused says
Oh please you and your stupid little games. The country is burning and you play word smith games. Ok dems and corporate republics-you cna see the fury on the sites like breitbart and gateway pundit on that decision. There is a reason that repubs have been through so much churn-because their base has had enough-Trump may , may not deliver- this issuewill not go away and will explode. You keep palying these gamnes-the base is mad at the corporate repubs as much as dems and have been trying to get different type of candidates-the dems do nothing-all you wnat bring in millions of illegals -racist, racist,r acist.


There is a reason repubs have been through so much churn

What churn is that?

You mean in the all powerful U.S. Senate? How many of those Republicans Swamp Monsters have been churned? Lolol
47   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Sep 5, 6:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

BorderPatrol says
using higher tax rates to force companies to expand will make them move offshore even more. a lot of one sided views in here.


Higher tax rates don't force expansion--they make investment more financially prudent than stock buybacks or CEO bonuses. As a country, it is preferable for companies to invest in new products/processes rather than hoarding cash.
48   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 7:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

So according to OP, all those corporate HQ's moving to Ireland, etc don't create any jobs in Ireland?
49   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 7:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

You tell us--why don't you post all the jobs that Irish people took
50   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 7:56am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

lostand confused says
Oh please you and your stupid little games. The country is burning and you play word smith games. Ok dems and corporate republics-you cna see the fury on the sites like breitbart and gateway pundit on that decision. There is a reason that repubs have been through so much churn-because their base has had enough-Trump may , may not deliver- this issuewill not go away and will explode. You keep palying these gamnes-the base is mad at the corporate repubs as much as dems and have been trying to get different type of candidates-the dems do nothing-all you wnat bring in millions of illegals -racist, racist,r acist.


I'm sorry, perhaps you missed my question and posted something completely irrelevant instead. I'll try again.

Who just signed legislation doubling the number of unskilled visas issued every year?
51   iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 7:57am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote      

Strategist says
How many millionaires are there in socialist Venezuela and Cuba? Just a couple....those who rule.


Like Germany huh!
52   anonymous   ignore (4)   2017 Sep 5, 8:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote      

I agree that tax rate cut do not directly create jobs.
Fist must be Demand and then Profitability.

What I see from Trump plan and agree, reduction of maximum tax, to make it comparable to other countries is for purposes of:
1. Reduce/eliminate incentives to move entire headquarters to other countries purely for Tax purposes. Years ago that was e.g. "Stanley" to Caribbean and recently "Pfizer" to Ireland. With that action, domestic workers are left with unemployment and foreign a hired. Some corporates with wide business variety don't have that problem e.g. GE because can use many loopholes to reduce tax obligation to "0".
2. Allows bring profit made in other counters back to US and possibly reinvest here, e.g. Apple. Now than have to pay match higher US tax, and hold them back with that decision.
3. Promote rather interstate movement of business, where they can use state tax only as an incentive., e.g. Toyota headquarters recently moving from CA to TX.

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