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Corporate tax breaks do NOT create jobs

By joeyjojojunior following x   2017 Sep 4, 10:59am 2,074 views   28 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Can we please put an end to this obvious myth?

https://www.thestreet.com/story/14284462/1/corporate-tax-cuts-promote-ceo-pay-raises-and-stock-buybacks-not-jobs.html
"Researchers looked at 92 publicly-held companies that reported a U.S. profit from 2008 to 2015 and paid a federal income tax of less than 20%, the rate proposed by House Republicans, by exploiting loopholes in the current tax code.

The 92 companies examined saw median job growth of negative 1% over an eight-year period, compared to 6% across the entire U.S. private sector. Moreover, half of those firms eliminated jobs during that time, downsizing by a combined total of 483,000 jobs.

At the same time, average CEO pay among the 92 firms rose by 18%, compared to a 13% increase across the entire S&P 500"

But, cutting corporate tax rates would ABSOLUTELY enrich Trump himself. When the Trumpcucks realize that he cares not for the average American. Everything he does, he does for one reason alone. To enrich himself and his family.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-promised-put-american-workers-142940732.html
is another interesting article detailing how Trump has screwed the American worker but helped his businesses.

#MAGA
1   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 4, 11:14am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Who is going to create jobs? You? You can't even hire yourself.
2   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 11:31am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
"Researchers looked at 92 publicly-held companies that reported a U.S. profit from 2008 to 2015 and paid a federal income tax of less than 20%, the rate proposed by House Republicans, by exploiting loopholes in the current tax code.


They started this study right in the middle of the Great Recession. Now who had this bright idea?
3   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 11:40am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

lol--do you guys have any actual arguments to make as to why corporate tax cuts would create jobs?

Do you think decided to hire based on how much money they have? They run the business like a charity--when they have extra money, they just give it to people to sit there doing nothing?
4   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 11:41am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
Who is going to create jobs? You? You can't even hire yourself.


What does that even mean? I can't hire myself?

Jobs are created when there is demand for product that can't be met by current supply. Companies then hire people so they can meet that demand. Period.
5   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 11:49am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Jobs are created when there is demand for product that can't be met by current supply. Companies then hire people so they can meet that demand. Period.


And if there is not enough money to be made they won't hire more people to meet the demand. They will just import more from China.
6   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 4, 12:15pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

That's not how business works. You know so little, just means you are a Democrat

joeyjojojunior says
lol--do you guys have any actual arguments to make as to why corporate tax cuts would create jobs?

Do you think decided to hire based on how much money they have? They run the business like a charity--when they have extra money, they just give it to people to sit there doing nothing?
7   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 12:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
And if there is not enough money to be made they won't hire more people to meet the demand. They will just import more from China.


Yep, and taxes are on PROFITS.

Ironically, higher tax rates encourages investment, which actually does create jobs. If you want more jobs, you should be pro-higher corporate tax rates.
8   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 12:26pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
That's not how business works. You know so little, just means you are a Democrat


OK, please educate me.

(just kidding--we all know that isn't going to happen)
9   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Sep 4, 12:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Blasphemy!
The Great Free Market Conservative Right Wing God will
send j..j..j..j to Socialist/Communist Left Wing Liberal Hell.
10   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 4, 1:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yes we both agree, you are hopeless.

joeyjojojunior says
FortWayne says
That's not how business works. You know so little, just means you are a Democrat


OK, please educate me.

(just kidding--we all know that isn't going to happen)
11   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 1:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
Yes we both agree, you are hopeless.


I'll take that to mean you cannot express why you think I'm incorrect.
12   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says


They started this study right in the middle of the Great Recession. Now who had this bright idea?


That actually biases the study toward job creation. Coming out of a severe recession hiring picks up a lot.
13   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:01pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

FortWayne says
Yes we both agree, you are hopeless.


Great job making your case. I really like all the research you've presented and the careful examination of the facts. LOL.
14   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says

WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses.


That argues even further against corporate tax breaks for job creation doesn't it?
15   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 2:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says

Yep, and taxes are on PROFITS.

Actually higher tax rates encourages investment, which actually does create jobs. If you want more jobs, you should be pro-higher corporate tax rates.


Corporate tax breaks are spent on stock buybacks, executive compensation, and stockholder dividends. That's been researched and documented many times.

A worthwhile read would be Flying High: The Story of Boeing and the Rise of the Jetliner Industry by Eugene Rodgers which documents in great detail Boeing's business decisions at various levels of taxation. A 20% tax rate in the 60's would have meant no 747 or 737 which have been the backbone of Boeing's profits and jobs for over 40 years. The decision to invest in the development of these planes was driven by the higher tax rates at the time.
16   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 4:15pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Yeah right, lets raise taxes and give it to the Gubmnt workers-when is enough enough?? Village managers making 300k a year with full pension at those rates or ya want 500k a year.

In today's globalized world, it is complex. If you had a big business and had to run a factory/establishment here and face all the rules, regulations, equal employment, affirmative action, blah, blah or instead you could just shift the whole thing to China or India-where people work 7 days a week, sleep in the factory, go home 2-3 times a year for holidays and no rules and regulations and then bring the [product back into the US for free with no taxes-what would you do. Even if there is only a 10% difference, you would escape all the regulatory/democrat headaches.

Either reduce regulations and/or start mandating all products shipped to US must meet the regulatory hell we go through. We need new ideas-I am excited by trump's tax overhaul-lets see.
17   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Sep 4, 4:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Anyone that is for any taxes is a SOCIALIST.
Anyone that is not worth at least a $trillion is a failure.
Go ahead & make excuses for you incompetence.
You are happy with your debt and having to work most of your life
for a pittance compared to America's Rich and you don't want more than what you have.
Nice try.
18   Strategist   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 5:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

bob2356 says
Strategist says

WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses.


That argues even further against corporate tax breaks for job creation doesn't it?


Not really. When a large company expands production it creates a multiplier effect. A lot of it's work gets subcontracted to small businesses. Workers also spend their money on homes, cars, groceries etc creating lots of jobs for mom and pop stores.
19   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 6:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Obama and the dems are like Queen Marie Antoinette of France. When the broken, hopeless people came to him for help, he said go get training-while negotiating the tPP -the you talk about tarriffs.
20   lostand confused   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 4, 7:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Oh please you and your stupid little games. The country is burning and you play word smith games. Ok dems and corporate republics-you cna see the fury on the sites like breitbart and gateway pundit on that decision. There is a reason that repubs have been through so much churn-because their base has had enough-Trump may , may not deliver- this issuewill not go away and will explode. You keep palying these gamnes-the base is mad at the corporate repubs as much as dems and have been trying to get different type of candidates-the dems do nothing-all you wnat bring in millions of illegals -racist, racist,r acist.
21   WatermelonUniversity   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 4, 10:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

for most businesses, expanding simply means stealing other businesses' customers. this might be good for those that expand (like Amazon) but it is bad for those that will be out of business. Amazon didn't improve the country's economy. they took revenues from other stores, online and offline.

for companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, expanding can mean really great new products that the rest of the world wants (what will really grows the economy). but these companies are relatively a small portion of the economy.

using higher tax rates to force companies to expand will make them move offshore even more. a lot of one sided views in here.
22   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Sep 5, 5:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Trump is Bob Rumson.

"I've known Bob Rumson for years, and I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Bob devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it. Well, I was wrong. Bob's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Bob's problem is that he can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and character."

Only instead of the President's girlfriend, he uses illegal aliens.
23   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 5:51am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Strategist says
bob2356 says
Strategist says

WTF. 80% of the workforce is employed by small businesses.


That argues even further against corporate tax breaks for job creation doesn't it?


Not really. When a large company expands production it creates a multiplier effect. A lot of it's work gets subcontracted to small businesses. Workers also spend their money on homes, cars, groceries etc creating lots of jobs for mom and pop stores.


Want to show the correlation between corporate tax cuts and corporations expanding production?
24   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Sep 5, 6:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

lostand confused says
Oh please you and your stupid little games. The country is burning and you play word smith games. Ok dems and corporate republics-you cna see the fury on the sites like breitbart and gateway pundit on that decision. There is a reason that repubs have been through so much churn-because their base has had enough-Trump may , may not deliver- this issuewill not go away and will explode. You keep palying these gamnes-the base is mad at the corporate repubs as much as dems and have been trying to get different type of candidates-the dems do nothing-all you wnat bring in millions of illegals -racist, racist,r acist.


There is a reason repubs have been through so much churn

What churn is that?

You mean in the all powerful U.S. Senate? How many of those Republicans Swamp Monsters have been churned? Lolol
25   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Sep 5, 6:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

BorderPatrol says
using higher tax rates to force companies to expand will make them move offshore even more. a lot of one sided views in here.


Higher tax rates don't force expansion--they make investment more financially prudent than stock buybacks or CEO bonuses. As a country, it is preferable for companies to invest in new products/processes rather than hoarding cash.
26   zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 7:10am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

So according to OP, all those corporate HQ's moving to Ireland, etc don't create any jobs in Ireland?
27   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 5, 7:45am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

You tell us--why don't you post all the jobs that Irish people took
28   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Sep 5, 8:13am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I agree that tax rate cut do not directly create jobs.
Fist must be Demand and then Profitability.

What I see from Trump plan and agree, reduction of maximum tax, to make it comparable to other countries is for purposes of:
1. Reduce/eliminate incentives to move entire headquarters to other countries purely for Tax purposes. Years ago that was e.g. "Stanley" to Caribbean and recently "Pfizer" to Ireland. With that action, domestic workers are left with unemployment and foreign a hired. Some corporates with wide business variety don't have that problem e.g. GE because can use many loopholes to reduce tax obligation to "0".
2. Allows bring profit made in other counters back to US and possibly reinvest here, e.g. Apple. Now than have to pay match higher US tax, and hold them back with that decision.
3. Promote rather interstate movement of business, where they can use state tax only as an incentive., e.g. Toyota headquarters recently moving from CA to TX.




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