Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever
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Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever

By iwog following x   2017 Sep 11, 3:53pm 1,587 views   70 comments   watch   quote     share  


This is a learning moment for some of you Trump people who were convinced that Donald Trump was cutting down on waste and saving us money. I said I'd bump the thread but I'll just make this new one instead.

What actually happened is the debt ceiling forced the Treasury to use bookkeeping tricks to suppress the issuance of new debt and now that the ceiling has been lifted we're going to soar ever higher.

I tried explaining this but got nothing but empty arguments on how great Trump is so I ended up saying something like "Just wait, you'll see". Of course I was correct.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/350150-us-federal-debt-passes-20-trillion-for-first-time

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31 Bellingham Bill   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 7:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

null says
Obama owns the $20 T, that debt is 100% on him. Please try again.


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TREAST
$2.5T is held by the Fed, neither here nor there.

$5.5T is intragovernmental, by itself totally "good" debt

https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
So that $20T is down to $12T of non-Fed debt held by the public.

Non-Fed debt held by the public was $6.8T on 10/1/2009, so $5.2T of national debt was on Obama's watch.

Not a bad price to keep the rubber side down 2009-2013, when the world was in a deep crisis, a cusp of a 2nd Great Depression if fiscal and monetary policy wasn't adjusted.



shows how consumer debt went from ~$7T at the start of the dotcom recession to over $14T at the top of the cyclic credit peak.

To cushion the trillion-dollar crash gov't had to step in. Maybe they should have borrowed less and printed more!
32 CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

null says
Please try again.


Is "anonymous" the same guy every time or different "anonymous" 's? Just curious
33 CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
Republicans set a new record for deficit spending and it's Donald Trump signing the budget this time.


The budget always explodes when the congress and president are of the same party. The best govt disposition is gridlock. It is too bad the democrats have fallen apart and left the henhouse to the republican foxes. The establishment of both parties is a disaster.
34 mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Bellingham Bill says
Not a bad price to keep the rubber side down 2009-2013, when the world was in a deep crisis, a cusp of a 2nd Great Depression if fiscal and monetary policy wasn't adjusted.


How do you know? Plenty of countries riding on more austerity recovered fine as well. Maybe we shouldn't have re-stoked the bubble like this, the SF bay area is in a fucking lunatic frenzy again with like 100 companies now that deliver food to your door.

Bellingham Bill says
To cushion the trillion-dollar crash gov't had to step in. Maybe they should have borrowed less and printed more!


You are widening the gap with these band-aids. Sure, everybody within the 90% percentile of income or better and no significant credit-dings gets shit on again with zero percent credit card offers. It's great for me to max out 5-10 credit cards at any given point in time and let the money ride in the market, but the majority of those I know that are below the 80% percentile do not get these offers and can't make money for nothing. They can't save either of course so they just shop. And the gap keeps widening. But at least if you liked it under Obama you should like it under Trump as well. Keep printing and making debt.
35 Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Ah, the wonders of fiat currency! Debt issued upon the strength of debt! The lies we tell ourselves grow truly staggering.
36 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 11, 8:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says
TRUMPLIGULA! has straws betting all sorts of money on exchange-traded funds against US Treasuries. He may be the Senescent Precedent but he knows how to run a cheesy scam with the best of them.

He'll run up debt like no one's ever seen and put on a little show in 2018 with Ryan 'holding the line against MARXIST HOOLIGANISM! RUN WILD!' and default on the bonds, netting him billions on his contracts and crushing a number of funds in San Marino, Vanuatu and Lichtenstein which will sue, citing collusive tortious interference and conspiracy to defraud.

TRUMPLIGULA! will wire part of the billions his straws were able to collect to banks in Russia. The Joint Chiefs of Staff will indict TRUMPLIGULA! in a Courts Martial for treason while acting nominally as Commander in Chief. TRUMPLIGULA! will attempt to dismiss them and a 23 year old US Secret Service agent will arrest TRUMPLIGULA! after Ivanka shoots her abusive husband in the face and holds her father captive at gun point wh...


In a world drowning in #fakenews, it's refreshing to see someone speak the truth
37 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
This is a learning moment for some of you Trump people who were convinced that Donald Trump was cutting down on waste and saving us money. I said I'd bump the thread but I'll just make this new one instead.

What actually happened is the debt ceiling forced the Treasury to use bookkeeping tricks to suppress the issuance of new debt and now that the ceiling has been lifted we're going to soar ever higher.

I tried explaining this but got nothing but empty arguments on how great Trump is so I ended up saying something like "Just wait, you'll see". Of course I was correct.

Damn Trump...Spent $20 Trillion of our hard earned money in 8 months.

tr6 says

Yep. no comment here, waiting for tpb, mell, strategist, thunderlips to tell us how great debt is and it's ok now that Trump made this great deal. 2011.

Yup. Especially that asshole "Strategist" Strategist thinks $20 trillion in debt is perfectly affordable. Can you believe it?
38 steverbeaver   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 8:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I am very displeased that any more debt has been taken on. Maybe the excuse that his hands were tied is somewhat valid. I don't have time to explore it. I've also read that the RINOs wanted a much longer continued funding. I'll abstain from taking a firm position on Trump until he entirely owns the budget cycle. His first "fully owned" budget is coming up soon, as I understand it.
I will say this- there was enough money to be had with the current budget. Maybe he didn't want undue delay so as to at least keep up some morale for those who suffered damages from the hurricanes.
39 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
FortWayne says
Because it's still Obamas budget, Trump hasn't passed one yet.
Funny how you ignore that fact.


For the last damn time, it's a REPUBLICAN budget signed by president Obama under threat of shutting down the government again.


Iwog, you are much to biased. If you want to be taken seriously, you really have to go more towards the center.
40 komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever


And in the future it will pass 30 million..There is no turning back. It's never going to get paid back. The people want to fight wars with Russia and NK, provide relief funds for hurricanes, continue funding govt pensions and handouts, etc. Now they talk about UBI. So why even think about it? The world is going to end soon anyways due to climate change, right? Have you always worried so much?
41 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 8:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
$20 trillion has Republican fingerprints all over it.


Can you please make up your mind with the TDS rants. You started blaming Trump for the $20T (which we know 1/2 of that belongs to Obama himself). Now you've jumped to Republicans. Please stay on your original topic.
42 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 8:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
FortWayne says
Keep ignoring reality Iwog, but this budget was signed by Obama. I know your party is like infants, huge appetite and zero responsibility.


Did you know that it's in the constitution that only congress can spend money?

I bet you didn't know that and you call yourself an American?


did you know it's president who makes up the budget proposal for congress? and after congress finishes changes, it's the president who signs it? you think you are very American?
43 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 8:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
the huge majority of that $20 trillion has Republican fingerprints all over it.


Let's see, trying to follow your logic. First you blamed Trump for the $20T, then it was the republicans, then you said Obama signed the spending bils.

Which is it?
44 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anonymous says
iwog says
the huge majority of that $20 trillion has Republican fingerprints all over it.


Let's see, trying to follow your logic. First you blamed Trump for the $20T, then it was the republicans, then you said Obama signed the spending bils.

Which is it?


He will stick with blaming Trump and Republicans. Just wait and see.
45 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 8:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

mell says
Plenty of countries riding on more austerity recovered fine as well


Name one.

anonymous says
Let's see, trying to follow your logic. First you blamed Trump for the $20T


I did no such thing.

Try reading threads before you comment in them.
46 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 8:57pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anonymous says
did you know it's president who makes up the budget proposal for congress?


All presidential budgets submitted to congress are DOA. They actually use that term, dead on arrival.

The president preparing a budget is an odd little custom that has never meant anything and congress flushes it down the toilet anyway so why are you bringing it up??
47 Bellingham Bill   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 9:43pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

steverbeaver says
there was enough money to be had with the current budget.


Not with the debt limit stopping all issuance of new debt. Can't spend it if it isn't in the Treasury.
48 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 10:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says
For the last damn time, it's a REPUBLICAN budget signed by president Obama under threat of shutting down the government again.


Iwog, you are much to biased. If you want to be taken seriously, you really have to go more towards the center.


Did I say something you disagree with?
49 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 12, 7:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Fisted Cuckservatives are ready for a nap. We're tired of all the Winning!
50 zzyzzx   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 12, 7:50am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It's all Obama's fault!!!

Trump has gone through ZERO budget cycles yet, and even you understand this.
51 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 12, 7:58am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

zzyzzx says
Trump has gone through ZERO budget cycles yet, and even you understand this.


You're so lost.

This thread was created in response to multiple Trump supporters who claimed Trump had already drastically reduced deficit spending.

How many fucking ways do you think you want this?

http://www.patrick.net/post/1309744/it-s-called-the-pelosi-schumer-trump-deal-for-raising-the-debt-ceiling-and-funding-the-government
52 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 12, 8:18am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Trump gets credit for Obamas economy, even before he took office

Trump gets credit for Obamas immigration numbers

Trump gets to blame everyone else for the debt

Winning!
53 FortWayne   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 12, 8:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Who proposes and signs the budget?
You sure love to ignore reality Iwog, this is still mess left by 8 years of Obama policies and Obama budgets.

iwog says
FortWayne says
Keep ignoring reality Iwog, but this budget was signed by Obama. I know your party is like infants, huge appetite and zero responsibility.


Did you know that it's in the constitution that only congress can spend money?

I bet you didn't know that and you call yourself an American?
54 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 12, 8:27am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says
You sure love to ignore reality Iwog, this is still mess left by 8 years of Obama policies and Obama budgets.


You're a very very poor American. You don't have the slightest idea how government works yet you still vote??

The President and those acting under executive authority can spend only what Congress permits them to spend. ... The Appropriations Clause is the cornerstone of Congress's “power of the purse.” It assigns to Congress the role of final arbiter of the use of public funds.


Why do you hate the constitution so much?
55 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 12, 1:53pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

CBOEtrader says
Is anonymous the same


Sometimes.
I am going to sign my messagages 'a1323' to distinguish from other anonymous posters.
56 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 12, 1:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

FortWayne says
Who proposes and signs the budget?
You sure love to ignore reality Iwog, this is still mess left by 8 years of Obama policies and Obama budgets.


Iwog just keeps jumping over this "small" detail. That Obama has to sign the spending bill, otherwisw the funds go nowhere.

Expect him to ignore that basic fact and he'll just continue to blame congress (or Trump).
57 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 12, 2:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

anonymous says
Expect him to ignore that basic fact and he'll just continue to blame congress (or Trump).


Well I'm going to prove you wrong yet again by not ignoring that fact. First you should admit you're wrong. Second you should admit you're scared for not being willing to go on record so you're posting in a way that you wont have to own your words. Coward.

Obama has a pass/fail job with regards to the budget. He cannot edit it, change it, or propose amendments to it. All he can do is sign it or not sign it.

The consequences for not signing it are that the government stops operating. Social Security recipients stop getting their checks. No more medicare. No more FBI. No more military pension payouts. The list goes on forever. That is why in the real world and not the Republican fantasy land, the president on VERY rarely plays politics with his signature.

Obama went to the mat to force Republicans to allow extending the lower and middle class tax cuts passed under Bush however insisted that people who make over $400,000 continue to pay the highest tax rate. He considered it an honorable reason to shut down the government and in the end, he won that battle. It was the only concession he received. Every other line item of the thousands of pages of the federal budget were written into the budget law by Republicans.

What you're claiming here is fucking stupid, asinine beyond belief, and I'm afraid far too typical of Republican voters. You wrongly insist Obama is responsible for a budget entirely written and passed by Republicans. The sentence I just wrote isn't fake. It's not bullshit. It's reality.
59 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 12, 9:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

iwog says
You wrongly insist Obama is responsible for a budget entirely written and passed by Republicans.


Here we go again, if Obama doesn't sign it, it doesn't become law. Doesn't matter which party passes it. He could insist on changes, but he decided to sign it. He OWNS it. Which part of that fact don't you understand?
60 Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 12, 10:47pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

No no, see, When Obama signs a budget into law the Republicans own it, but when Trump extends the debt ceiling to pay for that budget Obama signed, then HE owns it! Simple Leftist logic!
61 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 12, 11:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Quigley says
but when Trump extends the debt ceiling to pay for that budget Obama signed, then HE owns it! Simple Leftist logic!


No one said that. Y'all are desperately flailing but it's not going to work.

I don't think like you do.
62 Dan8267   ignore (3)   2017 Sep 13, 7:44am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever


With Republicans controlling all three branches of government including both chambers of Congress! Republicans are tax, spend, and go in debt welfare queens.
63 Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 13, 7:48am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
I don't think like you do.


Well that much is clear. But on the other hand, if we all did think alike, what would we argue about all day?
64 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Sep 13, 8:22am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Go to line: US Total Interest Paid
Remember to borrow & owe more than you borrowed.
Economic Pretzel Logic can justify 2.5 trillion interest.
I know,I know that's the way Free Market Capitalism works &
it makes perfect sense.
You owe $7,710. Foreclosure & confiscation includes failure to pay any part of debt.
FMTT

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
65 freespeak   ignore (6)   2017 Oct 15, 7:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
66 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 7:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

freespeak says
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.


Our debt may be $20 trillion, but most of it is owed to ourselves. Besides, with a net worth of $100 trillion, we can afford it.
67 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 8:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says
Our debt may be $20 trillion, but most of it is owed to ourselves. Besides, with a net worth of $100 trillion, we can afford it.


Debt is no problem when Republicans are President. Everyone knows that.
68 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 15, 8:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

joeyjojojunior says
Strategist says
Our debt may be $20 trillion, but most of it is owed to ourselves. Besides, with a net worth of $100 trillion, we can afford it.


Debt is no problem when Republican's are President. Everyone knows that.


Debt is only a problem when you have to borrow money, just so you can give it away to freeloaders, who can, but will not work.
69 joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 15, 8:08pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Strategist says
Debt is only a problem when you have to borrow money, just so you can give it away to freeloaders, who can, but will not work.


That's exactly what Trump is proposing. Giving it all away to the 0.01% who have never worked a day in their life.

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