Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever
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Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever

By iwog following x   2017 Sep 11, 3:53pm 1,584 views   70 comments   watch   quote     share  


This is a learning moment for some of you Trump people who were convinced that Donald Trump was cutting down on waste and saving us money. I said I'd bump the thread but I'll just make this new one instead.

What actually happened is the debt ceiling forced the Treasury to use bookkeeping tricks to suppress the issuance of new debt and now that the ceiling has been lifted we're going to soar ever higher.

I tried explaining this but got nothing but empty arguments on how great Trump is so I ended up saying something like "Just wait, you'll see". Of course I was correct.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/350150-us-federal-debt-passes-20-trillion-for-first-time

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1 anotheraccount   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 4:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

Yep. no comment here, waiting for tpb, mell, strategist, thunderlips to tell us how great debt is and it's ok now that Trump made this great deal. 2011.
2 mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:15pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Don't like the debt increase, always been a Ron/Rand Paul guy. This is the direct consequence of the recent "deal" though and he is getting a lot of praise from bipartisan authors. He still needs to work much harder at racking up debt if he wants to beat Obummer's record. Now what is DT, a dealmaker or a fundamentalist?
3 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

mell says
He still needs to work much harder at racking up debt if he wants to beat Obummer's record. Now what is DT, a dealmaker or a fundamentalist?


Well if he does what Obama did, he wont do anything to add to the debt. Unfortunately projections of his tax cuts has the Trump administration deficit spending more than any administration in history.

The last significant increase to the national debt with Obama's signature on it is early 2010.
4 Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 4:18pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

7 months later, a grossly unfair media smear campaign, mass rioting urged and supported by entrenched Democrats, and a neutered administration... and Trump hasn't reformed government finances yet.

Were you hoping for a shut down? I'm confused.
5 Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

The entire economy depends on the continued deficit. The best that can be done is reduce it slowly during the business cycle upside - at the cost of growth.
That's until the next recession, when the deficit will explode again, regardless of who is in the white house.

Since Reagan the average national debt growth was 9% a year, i.e. doubling every 8 years on average:

- Bush 2: 5T -> 10T
- Obama: 10T -> 20T

I see no reason this will change.
6 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Quigley says
7 months later, a grossly unfair media smear campaign, mass rioting urged and supported by entrenched Democrats, and a neutered administration... and Trump hasn't reformed government finances yet.

Were you hoping for a shut down? I'm confused.


Why don't you and your friends just admit you were wrong on this one? That would be a good start.

Like Obama, Donald Trump hasn't been allowed to do anything with regards to spending. Our current budget is still almost entirely spending bills passed in 2010 and prior. Little has been cut and little has been added.

The difference here is that y'all don't have a fucking clue where spending came from under Obama so you blamed him for it. Now all the same spending will occur under Donald Trump and you be all like "GEE!!!! I don't think Trump spent this money! He's a fiscal conservative!" and other nonsense. Utterly ridiculous.
7 anotheraccount   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 4:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Quigley says
Were you hoping for a shut down? I'm confused.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/88617765589630976?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthinkprogress.org%2Fone-letter-exposes-trumps-breathtaking-hypocrisy-on-the-debt-limit-dc9d07d813d9%2F
Trump from 2011:

Congress is back.TIME TO CUT, CAP AND BALANCE.There is no revenue problem.The Debt Limit cannot be raised until Obama spending is contained.
8 mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Heraclitusstudent says
Since Reagan the average national debt growth was 9% a year, i.e. doubling every 8 years on average:

- Bush 2: 5T -> 10T
- Obama: 10T -> 20T

I see no reason this will change.


Another issue is that even if there are emergency situations like spending for Harvey and Irma a fast response needed will always be earmarked or negotiated to contain other spending. A government shutdown during Hurricane season would probably not have gone over well with a populace in need. He'd need to budget hard now. I agree on the trajectory but think he can and should at least beat the 9%.
9 CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Yes @iwog you were right. Please explain how the fuck this is possible? Hiding 300 billion w accounting tricks? Wtf?!
10 anotheraccount   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 4:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Heraclitusstudent says
Since Reagan the average national debt growth was 9% a year, i.e. doubling every 8 years on average:

- Bush 2: 5T -> 10T
- Obama: 10T -> 20T

I see no reason this will change.


Most of the debt increase is going into corporate and super rich pockets. Part of the reason why interest rates are moving down since the money has to be parked somewhere.
11 Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

mell says
I agree on the trajectory but think he can and should at least beat the 9%.

Lower than 9% means slower growth.
This is not what he campaigned for and I doubt very much he has appetite for it.
12 FortWayne   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 4:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

We are still on Obama budget
13 mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:41pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Heraclitusstudent says
Lower than 9% means slower growth.
This is not what he campaigned for and I doubt very much he has appetite for it.


Very possible, interest rates seem to indicate no end to deficit spending.

FortWayne says
We are still on Obama budget


True, but with a debt ceiling a (partial) shutdown would allow to default on many due bills. You're just suddenly very unpopular if it happens under your watch.
14 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:46pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says
We are still on Obama budget


If you want to go there, it's not Obama's budget. It's a budget written by congressional Republicans in 2015.

What's it going to take to convince you people that congress controls spending?
15 FortWayne   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 4:51pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

What this has to do with Trump?
It can't be Trump, if it wasn't Obama
iwog says
FortWayne says
We are still on Obama budget


If you want to go there, it's not Obama's budget. It's a budget written by congressional Republicans in 2015.

What's it going to take to convince you people that congress controls spending?
16 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 4:54pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says
What this has to do with Trump?
It can't be Trump, if it wasn't Obama


Seriously?

Why don't you ask yourself that question since you've blamed Obama for a broken budget for 8 fucking years? Why don't YOU explain that since it was Obama's fault, this must be Trump's fault? How dare you ask me to justify YOUR FUCKING LOGIC!
17 YesYNot   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 5:09pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

CBOEtrader says
Please explain how the fuck this is possible?

link
18 HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Sep 11, 5:10pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Does anyone understand that Republicans & Democrats are the only ones to allow the debt to grow to this point?
I'm such a silly boy.
Debt never has any affect once the borrower has the money in their hands.
Everyone knows that debt disappears at that moment & that no one has lost a dime or homes,vehicles,etc. due to debt.
J. Wellington Wimpy: "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

Got some Wimpys around. I can't pay cash.I'm good for it.
My immediate gratification must be satiated.

Merriam-Webster.com:
"satiety: the quality or state of being fed or gratified to or beyond capacity"

On someone else's dollar.
19 APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 5:11pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

TRUMPLIGULA! has straws betting all sorts of money on exchange-traded funds against US Treasuries. He may be the Senescent Precedent but he knows how to run a cheesy scam with the best of them.

He'll run up debt like no one's ever seen and put on a little show in 2018 with Ryan 'holding the line against MARXIST HOOLIGANISM! RUN WILD!' and default on the bonds, netting him billions on his contracts and crushing a number of funds in San Marino, Vanuatu and Lichtenstein which will sue, citing collusive tortious interference and conspiracy to defraud.

TRUMPLIGULA! will wire part of the billions his straws were able to collect to banks in Russia. The Joint Chiefs of Staff will indict TRUMPLIGULA! in a Courts Martial for treason while acting nominally as Commander in Chief. TRUMPLIGULA! will attempt to dismiss them and a 23 year old US Secret Service agent will arrest TRUMPLIGULA! after Ivanka shoots her abusive husband in the face and holds her father captive at gun point while the USSS agent arrest him and reads him the warrant requiring him to hand TRUMPLIGULA! over to the Military Police. Famously, Ivanka will be screaming, "Worthless CUNT!, grab your own fucking pussy! You're no president! You're Putin's fucking CUNT!"

CNN will capture TRUMPLIGULA! being dragged away weeping 'it's no fair! Mommee! Donnie make MOO! It's no fair!' as Ivanka faces the camera and announces, "Justice makes me FUCKING! WET!" and pulls the USSS agent's face to her snatch and machine gun fire breaks out when a Russian special forces team recalled from Chechnya takes out the White House protective services detail and kidnaps TRUMPLIGULA!

The Russians and TRUMPLIGULA! escape on a small submarine in the Potomac.

Putin installs TRUMPLIGULA! as his 'consort' in the Kremlin where, resplendent in a Edwardian era wedding dress, TRUMPLIGULA! hold court with her man and icon, Vladimir Putin. Financial crimes experts opine that Putin was using TRUMPLIGULA! and his straws as straws to launder the 80 billion he needed to repatriate and launder.
20 FortWayne   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 5:16pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Because it's still Obamas budget, Trump hasn't passed one yet.
Funny how you ignore that fact.

iwog says
FortWayne says
What this has to do with Trump?
It can't be Trump, if it wasn't Obama


Seriously?

Why don't you ask yourself that question since you've blamed Obama for a broken budget for 8 fucking years? Why don't YOU explain that since it was Obama's fault, this must be Trump's fault? How dare you ask me to justify YOUR FUCKING LOGIC!
21 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 5:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says
Because it's still Obamas budget, Trump hasn't passed one yet.
Funny how you ignore that fact.


For the last damn time, it's a REPUBLICAN budget signed by president Obama under threat of shutting down the government again.

Do you understand how ridiculously hypocritical you are?? When we revisit this topic next year and the national debt is skyrocketing, will you call it Trump's budget?

My guess is there isn't a snowball's chance in hell and you are going to completely flip flop and either blame congress or Obama again. You have no tether to reality. You're an infant just reacting to basic stimuli.
22 Ernie   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 5:38pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
When we revisit this topic next year and the national debt is skyrocketing, will you call it Trump's budget?

It will still be Obama's fault because.
23 FortWayne   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 5:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Keep ignoring reality Iwog, but this budget was signed by Obama. I know your party is like infants, huge appetite and zero responsibility.

iwog says
FortWayne says
Because it's still Obamas budget, Trump hasn't passed one yet.
Funny how you ignore that fact.


For the last damn time, it's a REPUBLICAN budget signed by president Obama under threat of shutting down the government again.

Do you understand how ridiculously hypocritical you are?? When we revisit this topic next year and the national debt is skyrocketing, will you call it Trump's budget?

My guess is there isn't a snowball's chance in hell and you are going to completely flip flop and either blame congress or Obama again. You have no tether to reality. You're an infant just reacting to basic stimuli.
24 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 6:03pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

FortWayne says
Keep ignoring reality Iwog, but this budget was signed by Obama. I know your party is like infants, huge appetite and zero responsibility.


Did you know that it's in the constitution that only congress can spend money?

I bet you didn't know that and you call yourself an American?
25 Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 6:07pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

It's not Obamas budget but its Trump's budget, even if he never signed on it! The wogster had spoken!!!!
26 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 6:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Quigley says
It's not Obamas budget but its Trump's budget, even if he never signed on it! The wogster had spoken!!!!


I'm not a hypocrite. The huge vast majority of current spending is Bush's spending and the Republican congress under Bush. I know this because I checked. Y'all don't know that because you don't care about reality.

Where do you see me blaming Trump for this?
27 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 6:55pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
For the last damn time, it's a REPUBLICAN budget signed by president Obama


See the operative word you typed "signed"? Until Obama signs it, it means nothing and isn't law.

Obama owns the $20 T, that debt is 100% on him. Please try again.
28 iwog   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

null says
Obama owns the $20 T, that debt is 100% on him. Please try again.


Whatever floats your boat Mr. "I'm too scared to go on record" anonymous.

However your bullshit narrative is going to implode next year when the Republicans set a new record for deficit spending and it's Donald Trump signing the budget this time.

Anyway for those of us who aren't bloody fucking stupid and know how money is spend by the federal government, the huge majority of that $20 trillion has Republican fingerprints all over it.
29 Bellingham Bill   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 7:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
I bet you didn't know that and you call yourself an American?


chances are these people you're communicating with are connecting to the internet from Kursk Oblast or somesuch.

Nobody could in good faith be this retarded about everything.
30 anonymous   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 7:23pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

IT's actually an alter ego of Patrick's, trying to keep things spicy.
31 Bellingham Bill   ignore (5)   2017 Sep 11, 7:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

null says
Obama owns the $20 T, that debt is 100% on him. Please try again.


https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TREAST
$2.5T is held by the Fed, neither here nor there.

$5.5T is intragovernmental, by itself totally "good" debt

https://treasurydirect.gov/NP/debt/current
So that $20T is down to $12T of non-Fed debt held by the public.

Non-Fed debt held by the public was $6.8T on 10/1/2009, so $5.2T of national debt was on Obama's watch.

Not a bad price to keep the rubber side down 2009-2013, when the world was in a deep crisis, a cusp of a 2nd Great Depression if fiscal and monetary policy wasn't adjusted.



shows how consumer debt went from ~$7T at the start of the dotcom recession to over $14T at the top of the cyclic credit peak.

To cushion the trillion-dollar crash gov't had to step in. Maybe they should have borrowed less and printed more!
32 CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:35pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)     quote        

null says
Please try again.


Is "anonymous" the same guy every time or different "anonymous" 's? Just curious
33 CBOEtrader   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
Republicans set a new record for deficit spending and it's Donald Trump signing the budget this time.


The budget always explodes when the congress and president are of the same party. The best govt disposition is gridlock. It is too bad the democrats have fallen apart and left the henhouse to the republican foxes. The establishment of both parties is a disaster.
34 mell   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 7:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Bellingham Bill says
Not a bad price to keep the rubber side down 2009-2013, when the world was in a deep crisis, a cusp of a 2nd Great Depression if fiscal and monetary policy wasn't adjusted.


How do you know? Plenty of countries riding on more austerity recovered fine as well. Maybe we shouldn't have re-stoked the bubble like this, the SF bay area is in a fucking lunatic frenzy again with like 100 companies now that deliver food to your door.

Bellingham Bill says
To cushion the trillion-dollar crash gov't had to step in. Maybe they should have borrowed less and printed more!


You are widening the gap with these band-aids. Sure, everybody within the 90% percentile of income or better and no significant credit-dings gets shit on again with zero percent credit card offers. It's great for me to max out 5-10 credit cards at any given point in time and let the money ride in the market, but the majority of those I know that are below the 80% percentile do not get these offers and can't make money for nothing. They can't save either of course so they just shop. And the gap keeps widening. But at least if you liked it under Obama you should like it under Trump as well. Keep printing and making debt.
35 Quigley   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

Ah, the wonders of fiat currency! Debt issued upon the strength of debt! The lies we tell ourselves grow truly staggering.
36 errc   ignore (2)   2017 Sep 11, 8:02pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says
TRUMPLIGULA! has straws betting all sorts of money on exchange-traded funds against US Treasuries. He may be the Senescent Precedent but he knows how to run a cheesy scam with the best of them.

He'll run up debt like no one's ever seen and put on a little show in 2018 with Ryan 'holding the line against MARXIST HOOLIGANISM! RUN WILD!' and default on the bonds, netting him billions on his contracts and crushing a number of funds in San Marino, Vanuatu and Lichtenstein which will sue, citing collusive tortious interference and conspiracy to defraud.

TRUMPLIGULA! will wire part of the billions his straws were able to collect to banks in Russia. The Joint Chiefs of Staff will indict TRUMPLIGULA! in a Courts Martial for treason while acting nominally as Commander in Chief. TRUMPLIGULA! will attempt to dismiss them and a 23 year old US Secret Service agent will arrest TRUMPLIGULA! after Ivanka shoots her abusive husband in the face and holds her father captive at gun point wh...


In a world drowning in #fakenews, it's refreshing to see someone speak the truth
37 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
This is a learning moment for some of you Trump people who were convinced that Donald Trump was cutting down on waste and saving us money. I said I'd bump the thread but I'll just make this new one instead.

What actually happened is the debt ceiling forced the Treasury to use bookkeeping tricks to suppress the issuance of new debt and now that the ceiling has been lifted we're going to soar ever higher.

I tried explaining this but got nothing but empty arguments on how great Trump is so I ended up saying something like "Just wait, you'll see". Of course I was correct.

Damn Trump...Spent $20 Trillion of our hard earned money in 8 months.

tr6 says

Yep. no comment here, waiting for tpb, mell, strategist, thunderlips to tell us how great debt is and it's ok now that Trump made this great deal. 2011.

Yup. Especially that asshole "Strategist" Strategist thinks $20 trillion in debt is perfectly affordable. Can you believe it?
38 steverbeaver   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 11, 8:11pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

I am very displeased that any more debt has been taken on. Maybe the excuse that his hands were tied is somewhat valid. I don't have time to explore it. I've also read that the RINOs wanted a much longer continued funding. I'll abstain from taking a firm position on Trump until he entirely owns the budget cycle. His first "fully owned" budget is coming up soon, as I understand it.
I will say this- there was enough money to be had with the current budget. Maybe he didn't want undue delay so as to at least keep up some morale for those who suffered damages from the hurricanes.
39 Strategist   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
FortWayne says
Because it's still Obamas budget, Trump hasn't passed one yet.
Funny how you ignore that fact.


For the last damn time, it's a REPUBLICAN budget signed by president Obama under threat of shutting down the government again.


Iwog, you are much to biased. If you want to be taken seriously, you really have to go more towards the center.
40 komputodo   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 11, 8:21pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)     quote        

iwog says
Federal debt passes 20 trillion for the first time ever


And in the future it will pass 30 million..There is no turning back. It's never going to get paid back. The people want to fight wars with Russia and NK, provide relief funds for hurricanes, continue funding govt pensions and handouts, etc. Now they talk about UBI. So why even think about it? The world is going to end soon anyways due to climate change, right? Have you always worried so much?

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