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War Between North Korea and the United States Is Inevitable

By ohomen171 following x   2017 Sep 20, 4:34am 12,184 views   146 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


War Between The United States And North Korea Is Inevitable

I have been warning everyone for weeks that a miscalculation or a mistake is going to lead to a war between the US and North Korea that will result in the use of nuclear weapons in battle for the first time since 1945.
I promised myself that I would not watch the Ken Burns series Vietnam. After all, I had four friends killed there and some friends wounded. A Purple Heart certificate sits on the wall in my study. I broke the promise to myself. I watched the first two episode of the series yesterday. I focused on how four U.S. presidents saw Vietnam. Let me summarize what I saw:
President Eisenhower: He gave France hundreds of millions of dollars in support to keep them fighting in Vietnam. At one point, he was financing 80% of France’s costs to fight the war. France had over 100,000 casualties in Vietnam. President Eisenhower would not send US troops. He decided that the war was unwinnable.
President Kennedy: One quote in the show was most telling as follows:
“These people don’t like us. But if Vietnam falls to the Communists, I will lose the 1964 election.”
At the John F. Kennedy Library, I purchased a book: Vietnam Had Kennedy Lived. This is some heavy reading and quite scholarly. The conclusion is that Kennedy would have stayed in Vietnam until after the 1964 election and then started to wind down US involvement even if the North Vietnamese won.
President Johnson: Despite his humble background and education, Johnson’s biographer Doris Kearns Goodwin described him as a political genius. Johnson believed in The Domino Theory. In other words, if South Vietnam fell, Thailand, Cambodia, Malaysia, etc. would follow.
President Nixon: Alan Greenspan described Nixon as a dark and troubled man with a brilliant mind. President Nixon was a master of foreign affairs. He too believed in the Domino Theory.
With Johnson and Nixon strong believers in the Domino Theory, it was inevitable that Vietnam would be a long and a bloody war for the USA. North Vietnam won at the cost of some 3.25 million people killed. 20% of their territory is a “no man’s land” due to land mines and poisonous chemicals. After the Vietnam war ended in 1975, an additional 50,000 Vietnamese civilians were killed by land mines and unexploded ordinance.
Let us go to the present. Everyone thinks that Donald Trump is wild and irresponsible. Even if Hillary Clinton or Mike Pence were president, a war with North Korea would be inevitable. It would escalate to a nuclear conflict. The mindset is there as it was in Vietnam. It will start with some mistake or misunderstanding. It will quickly escalate into a nuclear exchange because that sort of firepower will be needed to destroy North Korea’s military capabilities.
Let me expose some fallacies as follows:
1) Kim Jung Un and his senior management team are phantoms hiding in heavily-fortified bunkers all the time. Wrong, they do appear in public. Rest assured that the following countries have “eyes on” Kim and his management team 24 hours a-day seven days a week:
The US
Japan
South Korea
China
Israel (Due to fear of North Korea sharing its nuclear technology with Iran.)
The dream of all these countries would be a stealth drone strike that would kill Kim Jung Un and his management team. If this happened the country would collapse.
2) Massive nuclear weapons will have to be employed with casualties in the range of 25 million plus. Nuclear weapons will be employed to “take out” military targets. My educated guess is one million casualties.
3) South Korea and Japan will be heavily damaged. There will be some casualties and damage in South Korea and Japan. China should be very concerned. When things get really irrational, North Korean nuclear weapons and poison gas might be used against China.
What will follow will be a temporary fall in world financial markets with a nasty recession to follow. Violent protests will erupt all over the world. These protests will make the Vietnam War protests seem pale in comparison.

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108   someone else   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 6:50pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
President Moon and the Koreans deserve the peace price if anyone does


I dunno. It certainly looks like Trump's actions over the past year helped break the Korean impasse that previous presidents could not.
109   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 7:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Not seeing the logic for putting Potus over Moon and for that matter Moon and Kim but then again since a underserving black guy got a prize, might as well give one to an underserving white guy and a stable genius as well.



Both Koreas vow to pursue Peace Deal by the end of the Year. That's pretty specific and unprecedented in nearly 70 years.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/27/world/asia/north-korea-south-kim-jong-un.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/koreas-sign-peace-deal-pursue-complete-denuclearisation-180427105506660.html

Doesn't stop "Some" from trying to downplay it. It's a joke now. It's worse than the "Saudi Arabia reforms are bogus" after ~40 years of nothing but the softest criticism in the Mainstream Press about Saudi domestic policy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/north-south-korea-peace-treaty/558932/

C'mon now, this position is looking damned silly and a bunch of sour grapes.
110   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 7:33pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
All Kim wants is luxury, riches, and pleasure. Give him a $100 million and let him retire with a harem in China. In no time his pretty wife, who was probably forced to sleep with him will dump him. he he he


With the exception of the harem in China (Russia might be more fitting) the description fits the Trump marriage to a "T".


LOL. Trump and Kim have something in common. Who'd have ever thunk it.
They should make a movie together...."Twins 2" It would be one helluva comedy thriller.
111   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 7:34pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Silly is trying to nominate Potus for a Nobel Peace prize. Sour grapes is still harping about the prize Obama got.


I posted above about how at least one Member of the Committee regretted the award. The article I posted is very interesting, he talks about people being moonstruck and not considering what would happen if Obama failed to live up to the award.

If the Korean Peace Treaty is signed, then Trump absolutely deserves the Peace Prize or the entire Prize is joke.

Feux Follets says
By the way how come we are allowed to have nukes and kill people at will or threaten them to do things our way but no one new can ? Please don't tell me we lead the world in morals.



Nope, I give you the realpolitik answer, which is the fewer nukes the better, and those that exist ought to be mostly in my country's hands.

Surely you don't think nukes are a safe thing for a country with a recent history of Cult-like Dictators to possess.
112   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 7:42pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

someone else says
I dunno. It certainly looks like Trump's actions over the past year helped break the Korean impasse that previous presidents could not.


He did exactly what he said he'd do - use China to put pressure on North Korea. Trump even acknowledged this:

Please do not forget the great help that my good friend, President Xi of China, has given to the United States, particularly at the Border of North Korea. Without him it would have been a much longer, tougher, process!— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 27, 2018




What a megalomaniac, to give others credit.

In our lifetime, or at least in mine, I have really only seen Neoliberal Manager types. We're seeing more and more real statesmen arise in world. Less Tony Blairs, Less Verhofstadts, Less Merkels, Less Bill Clintons, Less Kerrys, More Orbans, More Netanyahus, More King Salmans, More Trumps.

Frankly, I'm appalled I have to be rah-rah for this amazing breakthrough, that is a no-brainer big deal.

If Obama had done this, the Press would be having orgasms live on CNN over the Golden Child's brillance and leadership.

Palestine is the stretch goal. Kerry just came back from Palestine, after urging Abbas to REJECT any overture from the Trump Administration. Meanwhile, Salman pushed the Trump Plan on Abbas. Kerry gave Abbas the courage not to even read it. Think about what Kerry just did.
113   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 7:45pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
By the way how come we are allowed to have nukes and kill people at will or threaten them to do things our way but no one new can ? Please don't tell me we lead the world in morals.


We may not have the best morals, but the Dictators and Religious fanatics who are pursuing nukes have the worst morals on the planet. Nothing good can come to the world with these human rights abusers getting their hands on nukes. We need to stop them. Eventually, we want a world without dictators, kings, religious wackos, and nuclear weapons. First, we need to stop the spread of these nuclear weapons before we can eliminate ours.
114   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 7:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Wow - what a sane group holding the world hostage.



Iran?
North Korea?

oh, wait, it's okay if they get nukes. We shouldn't risk war to stop them. Just write another firm letter and hope for the best, and/or bribe them with cash or food, which has been the previous policies.
115   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 7:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Feux Follets says
Wow - what a sane group holding the world hostage.



Iran?
North Korea?

oh, wait, it's okay if they get nukes. We shouldn't risk war to stop them. Just write another firm letter and hope for the best, and/or bribe them with cash or food, which has been the previous policies.


Japan has all the technology and a mountain of plutonium they could use to develop nukes within two months. If they decided to have nuclear weapons I may not support it, but I would not lose sleep over it. NK and Iran are the ones who worry me, because I dont trust these wackos. I trust democracies.
116   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 7:57pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Reads like a rouges gallery of narcistic "deal makers". Real "statesmen" ? OFMG


ISIS is the JV Team.
We Came, We Saw, He Died.
Reset Button.
Red Line.

The Obama Admin not only failed to do shit on Korea, made a shitty deal with Iran, put half of Libya and Syria in the hands of Islamists, and oversaw the emergence of the Coldest relationship between the US and Russia, including during much of the Cold War. And unlike the others on your list, only one had thousands of nuke warheads.


Probably the Worst Administration for Foreign Relations in a century, maybe ever.

Instead of another 8 years of Failure or even Armageddon, we got a North Korean Peace Deal. Thank God that Bruja lost.
117   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:04pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says

When was the last time North Korea invaded a sovereign country under false pretenses ?

They don't have to invade anyone not to be trusted. The NK regime is only interested in their perpetual survival at the expense of tens of millions of innocent people they control.
Why are you OK with that?

Feux Follets says
Are you including the "religious fanatics" in this country aka the evangelicals ?

The evangelicals are not included even though they can be fanatics, because they are not in control the way Iran's mullahs are in control of Iran.

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
Eventually, we want a world without dictators, kings, religious wackos, and nuclear weapons.


You just described a good portion of the western world - the good guys. Boy are we fucked.

The West is all democracy. The people vote. No one rules for ever. Freedoms are respected.
I don't understand why you have an issue on this.
118   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:09pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
The Obama Admin not only failed to do shit on Korea, made a shitty deal with Iran, put half of Libya and Syria in the hands of Islamists, and oversaw the emergence of the Coldest relationship between the US and Russia, including during much of the Cold War.


I will never forgive Obama for allowing the rise of ISIS right before his eyes, and the consequential genocide, rape, murder, slavery of the Yazidis. Obama should be ashamed of himself. I even voted for Obama the second time. I apologize to the Yazidis and the world for voting for a man like him. I am truly sorry.
119   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:12pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Armageddon - a bit dramatic this evening but sounds pretty scary - maybe the administration can use it.

If there is a military action in Asia (i.e. the Koreas etc.) any bets who is going to start something they can't finish ?


No one is gonna start anything. We will keep tightening the noose around Kim, until he decides to take his riches and run away.
120   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:16pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
They don't have to invade anyone not to be trusted. The NK regime is only interested in their perpetual survival at the expense of tens of millions of innocent people they control.
Why are you OK with that?


Sound just like the U.S. - absolutely no different. Don't do things our way - we will threaten you. Don't give in - we will bomb you.

Our track record for keeping our word on treaties, pacts etc. is not exactly something you want to write home about - kind of like admitting to your first born they are the reason you got married in the first place.


What track record does NK have in sticking to agreements? They won't be given any choices, and carrots, or any concessions, until after they denuclearize to our satisfaction. Why is that bad?
121   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:18pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
The West is all democracy


Stand up comedy now ? Glad I stayed up for a bit.


The West is the most democratic. Prove me wrong.
122   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 8:19pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Armageddon - a bit dramatic this evening but sounds pretty scary - maybe the administration can use it.



Everybody with a brain, from Kissinger to Mearsheimer to Kennan understood the difference between what the enemy considers an existential threat, versus a little loss of prestige. Churchill would have understood it. But not the Kerrys, Powers, Merkels, and Verhofstadts.

The shit in Syria now is just an Old Bear trying to hold on to it's last remaining overseas bases and influence for prestige. It's not an existential threat to the Bear Cave. NATO membership for Ukraine, like Mexico or Canada joing a Chinese or Russian alliance/mutual defense pact, IS an existential threat.

Trump's policy of just ignoring the Russians and doing whatever is necessary in Syria is working great. Putin is actually losing face for the first time in his career but it's not an existential threat to lose access to Latakia. The annihilation of the mercenaries, who were probably a front group of real Russian special forces, was a real downer, on top of all the threats about shooting down missiles that were ignored and not followed through. But Latakia is not nuke worthy.
123   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:20pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
TwoScoopsPlissken says
ISIS is the JV Team.
We Came, We Saw, He Died.
Reset Button.
Red Line.


And ISIS came about because - go ahead - BUSHII and the other guy with the mustache - Jim something, last names starts with a "B" and it seems he is somewhere in government again..


ISIS rose to power because of Obama only.
124   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 8:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Are we going to denuclearize to their satisfaction ? When they say Korean "peninsula" that means both ends - all of it


Yep. But that's no biggy. It ain't 1951 no more. The ROK army then was an untrained shambles. Today it's a highly effective fighting force that's quantitatively equal, but vastly qualitatively superior, to North Korea.
125   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:24pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
They won't be given any choices, and carrots, or any concessions, until after they denuclearize to our satisfaction


Wanna bet ? They have already got more than they could have ever imagined and it will pay dividends for years to come.

Are we going to denuclearize to their satisfaction ? When they say Korean "peninsula" that means both ends - all of it


Does not matter what NK says. They will denuclearize completely, because Kim and his regime cannot win.
126   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:25pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
The West is the most democratic.


That was not the original statement therefore not playing that game. The original statement was the west is all democracy.


The West is all democracy. No one comes even close.
127   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 8:26pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Remember Folks, CNN said the Iraqi Army was the 4th Largest in the World in 1991. Seems silly today, but I remember watching Desert Storm night after night as a kid on CNN, back when it was a serious news channel.

So many talking heads bleating about how it was gonna be the struggle of titans, when it turned out to be the most one-sided battle in History.
128   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Strategist says
They will denuclearize completely, because Kim and his regime cannot win


They had already won - a significant victory just by getting major street cred for being recognized as a world threat and player in the nuclear world.


LOL. If you call Kim reaching out to eliminate their nukes after Trump's threats, as a significant victory for Kim, I am truly amazed.
Can we aim for even more success for Kim? It seems we have a formula to make everyone happy.
129   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:55pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsPlissken says
Remember Folks, CNN said the Iraqi Army was the 4th Largest in the World in 1991. Seems silly today, but I remember watching the telly as a kid.

So many talking heads bleating about how it was gonna be the struggle of titans, when it turned out to be the most one-sided battle in History.


ROFL. I remember that Aziz guy saying......"This is not Grenada, this is not Panama, this is Iraq"
HA ha ha ha ha. Do you remember the videos of the powerful Iraqi army kissing the hands of American soldiers?
It was so funny. Now they say the same crap about NK, Iran, Syria, and what not.
My question is......will they ever learn? ROFL ROFL.
130   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 Apr 27, 8:58pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
By the way what is the expected time line for this denuclearization, how will it be verified, how will it be maintained - what's to stop China and or Russia from exerting influence and or placing a few military weapons in the country prior to any reunification.


Relax. They will work that out. Step at a time.
131   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 Apr 27, 9:23pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
My question is......will they ever learn? ROFL ROFL.


No. It's part of their fundamental worldview. The Left-Islamic alliance WANTS the West (esp. the USA) to fail. They would love a meeting like this:
132   TrumpingTits   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 27, 9:36pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        





This doesn't look like WW3 to me:

134   just_dregalicious   ignore (0)   2018 Apr 29, 8:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Booger yours are the best!
135   Goran_K   ignore (1)   2018 May 1, 8:24am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Man this thread did NOT age well.
136   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 May 2, 2:31pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Aging even worse, now:

North Korea has freed three U.S. citizens detained for years in the communist country, bowing to another demand of President Trump ahead of his planned meeting with Kim Jong-un.

The three Americans — Kim Dong Chul, Kim Hak-song and Kim Sang Duk, also known as Tony Kim — were released from a North Korean labor camp and sent to Pyongyang for medical treatment, the Financial Times reported.

Though out of the brutal labor camp, the men remain in the grasp of Mr. Kim’s regime.

They currently are believed to be convalescing in a hotel outside Pyongyang.

“We believe that Mr. Trump can take them back on the day of the U.S.-North Korea summit, or he can send an envoy to take them back to the U.S. before the summit,” said Choi Sung-ryong, an activist pursuing release of North Korea’s political prisoners.

The release of the three Americans marked another significant victory for the Trump administration, which also won North Korea’s agreement to discuss giving up its nuclear weapon program as a prerequisite for the talks.

National Security Adviser John R. Bolton had called for the release of the detainees, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo reportedly raised the issue during secret face-to-face talks with Mr. Kim last month in Pyongyang.

Kim Hak-song and Kim Sang Duk worked at the Pyongyang University of Science and Technology. Kim Dong Chul is the president of a company involved in international trade and hotel services. He was sentenced to 10 years on espionage charges.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/2/north-korea-releases-us-detainees-bows-another-tru/
137   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 May 2, 4:34pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
Why the US’s 1994 deal with North Korea failed – and what Trump can learn from it.

After more than two decades of testing, North Korea finally has a missile that is powerful enough to deliver a nuclear warhead to US territory – that is, to Alaska and/or Hawaii, if estimates are to be believed. This is an extremely dangerous development, and if the Trump administration is to avoid spiralling into a nuclear confrontation with North Korea, it needs to understand what North Korea wants and why it behaves the way it does.


Trump knows exactly why past Presidents failed. They need to learn why Trump succeeded so much in such a short period of time, even though NK already has the nuclear bomb.
I would also suggest those who worked in past administrations, not give advise to Trump on Iran. They had their chance. Now get out of the way.
138   Strategist   ignore (1)   2018 May 2, 4:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Strategist says
Now get out of the way.


In other words.......Fuck Off
139   mell   ignore (2)   2018 May 18, 5:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Any minute
140   Patrick   ignore (0)   2018 May 18, 6:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says
TwoScoopsPlissken says
ISIS is the JV Team.
We Came, We Saw, He Died.
Reset Button.
Red Line.


And ISIS came about because - go ahead - BUSHII and the other guy with the mustache - Jim something, last names starts with a "B" and it seems he is somewhere in government again..


ISIS is just an extension of Saudi Arabia.

Exact same philosophy, just unrestrained by official connection to oil export, which limits what the official Saudi government policy can be.

If there were no threat of boycott or expropriation of Saudi assets, the Saudis would publicly behave exactly the same.
141   DASKAA   ignore (3)   2018 May 19, 7:47am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Any update from the trenches?
142   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 May 19, 11:59am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

The North Koreans haven't cancelled Singapore meeting, despite the hope of Lefties who want Trump to fail more than they want Peace and Denuclearization.

The North Koreans whinged, Trump pulled out a B-52 out of the 100s of aircraft in an exercise as a goodwill gesture. Everything is headed towards Singapore in June.
143   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 May 19, 12:00pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Feux Follets says

Does the South Korean government really believe that Trump’s “maximum pressure” policy is the force driving North Korea to consider bargaining away its nuclear weapons? As South Korean officials handle the heavy lifting through constant rounds of shuttle diplomacy, do they really think it is all thanks to Trump?

Among academics and experts there are still conflicting answers to this question.


Nice smear. Not one quote or interview or other point of evidence is provided. Rather, South Korea officials have warmly thanked Trump for his moves with North Korea.
144   TwoScoopsOfSpaceForce   ignore (4)   2018 May 19, 4:22pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

Yep, it's a bit hard. Previous Admins would just put Rustbelt Americans out on the street without a second thought.

Trump has to balance many issues. Not to worry though, the Chinese and US just had a joint announcement about buying more US Stuff, because it's not just about us buying less from them, but about them buying more from us.
145   Kakistocracy   ignore (0)   2018 May 20, 4:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote   flag        

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
Trump has to balance many issues


Potus really should consult with a mental health professional on a regular basis, say daily.

TwoScoopsOfDragonEnergy says
Previous Admins would just put Rustbelt Americans out on the street without a second thought


And this has what to do exactly with what is going on in North Korea ?

Since Potus is somehow managing to get a second thought now and then, what is he doing to help get those Rustbelt Americans off the street since the policies coming out from the administration are anything but helpful to the down and out.

It must be all those jobs that pay a living wage with benefits that is turning the tide huh ? It that why the homeless population is growing along with more people falling out of the middle class and into the lower classes ?

But again - all of this fluff about trade, Rustbelt families etc. has what to do exactly with Korea, Bolton and Potus threats ?

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