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PBS series: The Vietnam War

By justme following x   2017 Sep 28, 11:35am 1,932 views   29 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


I'm just wondering, are you all watching? I think tonight might be the last episode. I have found the series very enlightening, and it may serve as good antidote to the incessant war-mongering that has become the modus operandi of Washington ever since they left Vietnam in 1975.

At the time, I thought that the US would learn from their murderous mistakes, but very quickly they got back on track.

1   jazz_music   ignore (4)   2017 Sep 28, 11:38am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

justme says
but very quickly they got back on track.


... for more lucrative capital gains and emerging markets at the expense of taxpayer and lives of patriotic teenagers who don't see any good options after high school. (mostly from the south)
2   justme   ignore (0)   2017 Sep 28, 11:46am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

"In order to save the village (implied: from the communists), we had to destroy it"

Sounds a lot like the way we are busy saving cities all over Iraq and Syria. We destroy them, and kill 100s of thousands of people in the process. So that they can be saved.
3   jazz_music   ignore (4)   2017 Sep 28, 11:53am   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It's hard to watch for my generation. Many of us who recall those days are moved to tears on every episode and what's even worse is seeing how the set up was put in place for what this country has now become. Steadily creeping oligarchy and the primary instrument of world oppression. The countries we "help" we quietly bring to their knees using the bankers and our other forces.

We can all work towards a broader awakening so that the people take it back again. Great pain will be realized, but the people have the real power. Propaganda can be defeated. We still have the internet. What we don't have is the will to govern ourselves.
4   HEY YOU   ignore (7)   2017 Sep 28, 2:39pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

I've lived with the Stupid Republican & Democrat Vietnam & all the other military adventures.It was a weapon testing laboratory.
We've been in some war all my life.
I hope we get into nuclear conflagration & this warmongering country gets a taste of what America has done to other countries,where we have no right to be,but worse.
A few severe radiation burns on warmongers' children & grandchildren might get their attention.

Don't Die in WW3, suffer a long,painful,miserable life.
5   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 28, 2:42pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

In a world where there is a large industry complex selling weapons, generating profits and jobs, what is the chance that lasting peace will take place?
6   Heraclitusstudent   ignore (1)   2017 Sep 28, 2:43pm   ↑ like (4)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

It's like for profit medicine. We are using market forces to optimize for something we don't want.
7   MisterLefty   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 3:39am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The Red Menace. The USS Maddox!
8   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 May 8, 8:40am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
large numbers of Protestant leaders actively campaigned against U.S. military policy

This is something I really admire in some (unfortunately, too few) religious leaders. It is also mind-boggling how some Christians can be for war and at the same time against abortion. Both of those should be MURDER to them as a book important to Christians says "You shall not kill". Apparently, one of Commandments has asterisks (do not KILL unless...) for some who think they are Christians.

10   socal2   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 10:04am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

drB6 says
This is something I really admire in some (unfortunately, too few) religious leaders. It is also mind-boggling how some Christians can be for war and at the same time against abortion. Both of those should be MURDER to them as a book important to Christians says "You shall not kill". Apparently, one of Commandments has asterisks (do not KILL unless...) for some who think they are Christians.


Do you really think it is this binary or black and white? All Christians need to be pacifists or STFU?

Are pro-life Christians being hypocritical when they fought against Nazi Germany to liberate Europe?

Anyway, the Catholics have put some thought into this issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory
11   HeadSet   ignore (1)   2018 May 8, 10:40am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Heraclitusstudent says
In a world where there is a large industry complex selling weapons, generating profits and jobs, what is the chance that lasting peace will take place?


War is a part of humanity and has been going on long before industry and profits.

If you founded a primitive agriculture group that cleared land and planted crops, you would have to defend that land at harvest time from people who would rather raid than farm. Such raiders cannot be reasoned with and will use justifications like "the land and rain belong to all of us" or "you need to pay a tax or tribute." Or maybe even the Comanche approach that if you have something, and I am strong enough to take it, it is morally mine. The only method to protect your land, people, and produce is to destroy the raiders.

Want to stay out of war? Then follow the example of the Swiss - stay neutral and never start a war, and be so militarily strong that no one will attack you.
12   Tenpoundbass   ignore (10)   2018 May 8, 10:42am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Marxist Jews are mother fuckers.
13   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 8, 11:04am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Read about Hamburger Hill. Sums up the war as good as anything else.
14   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 May 8, 11:08am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

socal2 says
Do you really think it is this binary or black and white? All Christians need to be pacifists or STFU?


It is not black and white, and thank you for the link, it is very informative. Catholic considerations are reasonable and logical:

the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
there must be serious prospects of success;
the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated (the power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition).

None of that applies to Vietnam or Iraq wars, which conscientious Christians should have opposed. Many of them supported these wars. Furthermore, the religious right appears to be rather belligerent these days. I am not saying that left is better - Ms. Clinton is an example of a belligerent supposedly leftie, but religious people should have been in arms against US adventures abroad in last 20 years.
15   Quigley   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 11:14am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

As bad as War is, capitulation to evil (man’s intentional infliction of suffering on man) is even worse.
Auschwitz in germany and Unit 731 (Japanese medical research camp in China) prove this.
Evil must not be allowed to flourish, or humanity will reap a harvest of increased suffering.
16   socal2   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 11:15am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

drB6 says
but religious people should have been in arms against US adventures abroad in last 20 years.


Really - Christians should be up in arms for knocking the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan (with very little loss of life on both sides) and allowing women and girls to go to school?

It may not be worth American wealth and treasure, but our actions are not immoral to the average non-Taliban Afghani.
17   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 11:16am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HeadSet says
War is a part of humanity and has been going on long before industry and profits
The left fell in love with Marxism in the 30's and never looked back. It was understood that Marxism was the way of the future and the West just had to get used to it and knuckle under at each advance, any defensive action on our part was overwhelmingly condemned as being provocative and unreasonable. Then Reagan came along and had a different idea--we win, they lose and they did.
18   P N Dr Lo R   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 11:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

HeadSet says
Then follow the example of the Swiss - stay neutral and never start a war
and live in the Alps.
19   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 8, 11:19am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

P N Dr Lo R says
Then follow the example of the Swiss - stay neutral and never start a war
and live in the Alps.




And teach every man in your country how to defend it, including issuing them a military grade rifle they keep for life.
20   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 May 8, 12:06pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

socal2 says
Really - Christians should be up in arms for knocking the Taliban out of power in Afghanistan (with very little loss of life on both sides) and allowing women and girls to go to school?

It may not be worth American wealth and treasure, but our actions are not immoral to the average non-Taliban Afghani.


Afghanistan was probably an exception. They harbored Bin Laden, so there was casus belli. In the case of Iraq, Vietnam, not so much. Religious Right (Pat Robertson) supported Iraq war, at least in 2003. Ten years later he said that it was a mistake.
21   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2018 May 8, 12:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

NuttBoxer says
P N Dr Lo R says
Then follow the example of the Swiss - stay neutral and never start a war
and live in the Alps.




And teach every man in your country how to defend it, including issuing them a military grade rifle they keep for life.


And don't plant military in with innocent civilians so that you can win the media war

US would learn from their murderous mistakes? It was the Viet Cong backed by communist China and Russia whose soilders embedded with civilian populations.

Justme, why doesnt your point of view talk about that?

The "murderous" US would be VERY happy to avoid any civilian casualties...just look at our rules of engagement where we handicap our soldiers....


We don't do this. But sure as hell our enemies do, including the asshole communists you adore and support.
22   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 May 8, 12:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CovfefeButDeadly says
US would learn from their murderous mistakes? It was the Viet Cong backed by communist China and Russia whose soilders embedded with civilian populations.

That is 100% sure. However, it would have been better to NOT be involved in Vietnam at all. It was a brilliant French idea and subsequent French failure, followed by US trying to save French ass and wasting a lot of money/soldiers on it.

Ho Chi Minh was fairly pro-US in late 1940's. Without war there perhaps would be another very pro-US country in SE Asia.
23   socal2   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 12:17pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

drB6 says
Without war there perhaps would be another very pro-US country in SE Asia.


Vietnam is currently one of the most pro-American countries in SE Asia.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/llewellyn-king/vietnam-welcomes-america-_b_6289478.html
24   dr6B   ignore (1)   2018 May 8, 12:25pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

socal2 says
Vietnam is currently one of the most pro-American countries in SE Asia

Immigrants from VN are also among the most patriotic Americans I have ever met.

25   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2018 May 8, 12:31pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

drB6 says
socal2 says
Vietnam is currently one of the most pro-American countries in SE Asia

Immigrants from VN are also among the most patriotic Americans I have ever met.



This is very true.
26   CovfefeButDeadly   ignore (4)   2018 May 8, 12:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
drB6 says
Immigrants from VN are also among the most patriotic Americans I have ever met.


That can be changed as well - give them enough time here. Time can fix anything and boy do does the U.S. know how to "fix" things.

Better yet start deporting them in numbers because we changed our mind about them really be political refugees.


Not as long as they remember Jane Fonda and other treasonous individuals who supported the Viet Cong. The people that came here weren't from the North.
27   NuttBoxer   ignore (2)   2018 May 8, 12:52pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CovfefeButDeadly says
It was the Viet Cong backed by communist China and Russia whose soilders embedded with civilian populations.


Doesn't matter, because we never should have been there. Citizens of Vietnam were routinely brutalized by both sides. And that's the real legacy of war. The people suffer so the banks can practice their usury on a government scale.
28   justme   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 1:00pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

CovfefeButDeadly says
US would learn from their murderous mistakes? It was the Viet Cong backed by communist China and Russia whose soilders embedded with civilian populations.


What balderdash. Do you REALLY expect soldiers of any army to line up to be slaughtered by an overwhelming enemy force, on some "clean" and civilian-free battlefield, in the name of avoiding harm to civilian population? Nobody is that dumb, and demanding it is unreasonable.

I don't see the US Military delivering bombs on foot to Syria. Why are they embedding themselves in the clouds with a safe stealth-technology bomber airplane?
29   socal2   ignore (0)   2018 May 8, 1:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Feux Follets says
Your children or grandchildren ready to head off and fight the "yellow man " ?


No need to.

America defeated Communism through the Cold War which included fighting Communists in Vietnam, Korea and various Marxist insurgencies in South/Central America and Africa. Let alone protecting Western Europe for half a century.

The world is a much better place with less war, famine, poverty and violence thanks to the US being a bulwark against the Communists and their puppet states.




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