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So, Dems, what exactly are you hoping to get out of this in terms of gun control?

By KimJongUn following x   2017 Oct 3, 10:52am 1,312 views   143 comments   watch   quote     share  

Realistically. (No loony shit, please.)

And what would you be willing to trade for it?

I have a proposal, but I'll hold on to it for now.

UPDATE: Please refrain from virtue signalling in this thread - we have plenty of that in other threads related to LV shooting already.

Comments 1 - 40 of 143     Next »     Last »

1 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 3, 11:05am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Although I find the current interpretation of the 2nd amendment to be ridiculous, I wouldn't be willing to trade anything for gun control. If that's the hill that conservatives want to die on, let them.
2 APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE   2017 Oct 3, 11:09am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
The 2nd Amendment clearly states that everyone packing belt-fed ordnance everywhere is not only a birthright but an obligation of every white man.

Had every white male at that concert observed the original intent of the 2nd Amendment as imagined and endorsed by the Founding Fathers and Jesus, the 32nd floor of the attackers hotel would have been vaporized after he got off the first shot.
3 HEY YOU   2017 Oct 3, 11:17am   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
If that's the hill that conservatives want to die on, let them.


The more the better as long as it's by gunfire.
4 me123   2017 Oct 3, 11:22am   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
Although I find the current interpretation of the 2nd amendment to be ridiculous,


Be specific, what exactly do you have a problem with?
5 iwog   2017 Oct 3, 11:45am   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
I like guns. I own guns, even handguns.

However gun ownership has been driven into an unhealthy fetish by the NRA. If anyone doubts this, take a look a any gun enthusiast magazine complete with centerfolds of the latest sexy hunk of iron. It's gun porn for people who may not be able to buy a nice house or afford a nice car but a $500 Sig Sauer P250 is well within reach. It's power for the powerless. It's artificial importance for the marginalized. It's not healthy.
6 jazz_music   2017 Oct 3, 12:18pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
I admit to having 4 guns, and ammo in preparation for home invasion or loss of society.

Also a nice CO2 BB hand gun for varmint suppression.

I'm fighting the urge to buy a fully automatic kit before they take them off the market They aren't expensive at all.

What should society do? I dunno. I don't want to be the one to say. How about free access to compassionate mental health care? It's not surprising that so many people freak out given our lives. Maybe stiffer requirements on buyers to acquire guns?
7 jazz_music   2017 Oct 3, 12:27pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
I will vote against Democrats if given a better choice but the way things are rest assured that I can discern the difference between an imperfect friend and a mortal enemy.

I even volunteered for Ross Perot even though I didn't agree with all his proposed policies.

The Republican party/Koch brothers AGENDA must be defeated. The agenda is indecent, oppressive to all and despicable as well. Many rich families want to be taxed at a higher rate to avoid further destroying high quality of life in America and poisoning the land, air, and seas.

To this day I am ashamed of falling for Reagan's pitch the first time.
8 me123   2017 Oct 3, 2:18pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
iwog says
However gun ownership has been driven into an unhealthy fetish by the NRA. If anyone doubts this, take a look a any gun enthusiast magazine complete with centerfolds of the latest sexy hunk of iron.


You saw that in a NRA magazine, did you? Which issue?
9 me123   2017 Oct 3, 2:21pm   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
Notice all the known Libbies that have chimed into this thread haven't actually answered the question of the OP, so I'll sum up where they stand:

Guns are bad.... just because I was told they were.
12 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 3, 4:27pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
me123 says
Notice all the known Libbies that have chimed into this thread haven't actually answered the question of the OP, so I'll sum up where they stand:

Guns are bad.... just because I was told they were


After the incident in Vegas, you're not sure why people think guns are bad?

How many people would Paddock have killed from the Mandalay Bay with a knife?
14 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 3, 4:33pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
Booger says


Great movie. He looked like a Trump supporter for most of the movie too.
17 Fucking White Male   2017 Oct 3, 4:37pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Nationwide 15 year sentence for felons in possession of guns. It's gonna be mostly blacks. Cry me a river.

Make room in the jails by continuing to secure borders.

Fail to see how any true conservative or liberal would oppose.
21 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 3, 4:44pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
I love that Trumpcucks can't have a conversation. All they understand is memes.
22 errc   2017 Oct 3, 5:21pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
I love that Trumpcucks can't have a conversation. All they understand is memes.


You love it?

I find it rather pathetic. These people are borderline retarded.
23 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 3, 5:31pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
I love that Trumpcucks can't have a conversation. All they understand is memes.


The #AltLeft doesn't get Memes because they're from the current era, not from when Captain Beefheart was in the Charts.

However: "Cops are brutal and racist... but we don't need guns 'cuz we have cops" contradiction doesn't require a meme to answer.
24 me123   2017 Oct 3, 5:38pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
After the incident in Vegas, you're not sure why people think guns are bad?


I know why certain people think guns are bad, but those people are really ignorant? Are you one of them? I have yet to see a gun jump off of the table and shoot someone By itself. Have you?

joeyjojojunior says
How many people would Paddock have killed from the Mandalay Bay with a knife?


Actually more people are killed by knives each year than rifles, not that facts matter for your narrative.
25 me123   2017 Oct 3, 5:41pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
I love that Trumpcucks can't have a conversation. All they understand is memes.


I love how the libbies are anti gun, but all they can do is make snide comments and can't actually articulate WHY they are anti gun.
26 FortWayne   2017 Oct 3, 5:53pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Why would he use a knife, even if guns were suddenly outlawed.

You do realize that no law can prevent this? Terrorists never run out of cars, explosives, etc...

joeyjojojunior says
me123 says
Notice all the known Libbies that have chimed into this thread haven't actually answered the question of the OP, so I'll sum up where they stand:

Guns are bad.... just because I was told they were


After the incident in Vegas, you're not sure why people think guns are bad?

How many people would Paddock have killed from the Mandalay Bay with a knife?
27 me123   2017 Oct 3, 6:04pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
joeyjojojunior says
After the incident in Vegas, you're not sure why people think guns are bad?


There's been 2395 people shot and 498 killed right in your backyard of Chicago this year. That doesn't include all previous years.

Where is your outrage?
28 iwog   2017 Oct 3, 6:06pm   ↑ like (3)   ↑ dislike (3)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
The #AltLeft doesn't get Memes because they're from the current era, not from when Captain Beefheart was in the Charts.


Yeah lets look at the memes we're supposed to "get":

1. Firearms described as 'assault weapons' kill more people than knives!!

Reality: I don't really care if the number given, 252, is accurate or not because 11,208 people were murdered by firearms in 2015 with most of those resulting from handguns. However even this MASSIVELY understates the number of killings because it excludes accidents, suicides, and "undetermined" killings which put the number at well over 30,000. So over 30,000 people die every year from guns and 1544 people die from knives and GUN RIGHTS YO!!!!!!!! This meme while not being an outright lie is ONLY intended to deceive.

2. The gun debate leads to more gun and ammo sales.

Reality: While true, this doesn't contain any useful information. When fluorocarbons got banned in the 1980s, people rushed out and stockpiled as much of the stuff as they could because they knew the use was going to be grandfathered and new supplies would be unobtainable. The fact that ignorant NRA thugs who take over public land want to hoard a bunch of guns so they can have them post-regulations isn't an argument against gun regulation. It's an argument FOR regulation since most gun nuts are functionally retarded.

3. Honduras bans guns and they have the most murder!

Reality: This one is simply a lie. El Salvador has the highest murder rate in the world and guns are not only legal but being bought by citizens in record numbers. (I posted an article about this recently) Also Switzerland isn't even close to the lowest murder rate in the world. In 2015 they ranked 21st behind a large number of countries that ban guns outright including Japan! Again functionally retarded NRA gun nuts don't care about reality and just make shit up because they are too stupid to understand it when their beliefs are grossly misaligned with reality.

4. Cops are evil and racist and you don't need a gun because of police.

Reality: Essentially a lie since the VAST majority of gun control advocates, most of whom are typical Democrats neither believe the police are evil nor do they say we don't need guns because of police. In fact I've never in my life heard that argument made by anyone. Millions of Democrats not only own guns but hunt and keep guns for their home protection and clearly support their police departments. This is an example of a straw man turned into a meme for the consumption of people too stupid to know or care what is real or not.

5. You can't deport 11 million people and you can ban and confiscate 300 million guns.

Reality: This one is brain-numbingly stupid even for NRA people and are not views commonly held by the majority of gun control advocates. I have never in my life heard anyone claim that we need to confiscate 300 million guns. In fact almost all gun laws contain grandfather provisions allowing people to keep their guns which is why it's still legal for people to keep old fully automatic weapons. The other part is equally as stupid since no one including Donald Trump has any intention to ever deport 11 million people. You were lied to and despite clear evidence that this is the case, you go on believing Donald Trump is deporting all the illegals. That's YOUR horrible decision and has nothing to do with liberal gun control advocates. Finally they are totally non-sequitur and not connected in any way. Even presuming a law was passed to confiscate 300 million guns, only a blithering idiot NRA thug would make the claim that the government was going to confiscate all the guns. Anyone with a brain would presume that huge numbers would be hidden away and kept away from authorities.

Conclusion: Your memes are shit. They are full of lies, misinformation, non-sequitur arguments, and indefensible exaggerations. Whenever I see anti-gun people publish, which is pretty rare these days, at least they are giving accurate information about the United States as the gun violence leader in all the first world. This is TRUE. This is ACCURATE. They aren't blatantly lying like the right does. There's something wrong with Republicans and I'm still not quite sure what it is. You people are simply not capable of parsing reality from fiction even in the brilliant light of provable reality and I don't know why. I think y'all need to be studied in a lab.
29 joeyjojojunior   2017 Oct 3, 6:17pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
However: "Cops are brutal and racist... but we don't need guns 'cuz we have cops" contradiction doesn't require a meme to answer.


No kidding. This is my favorite--it appeals to the simple minded because they think they are clever.

Even the most cursory examination of this shows how ridiculous it is. Even assuming that liberals think cops are evil, the idea that an evil cop would back down when he sees someone with a gun is hilarious. A bad cop is excited to see someone with a gun--he has free reign to do whatever the hell he wants! A perp with a gun pretty much guarantees it will be viewed as a good shooting.

What I would prefer is making sure we get rid of the bad cops. I think that's preferable to the Wild West...
30 errc   2017 Oct 3, 6:39pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
joeyjojojunior says
I love that Trumpcucks can't have a conversation. All they understand is memes.


The #AltLeft doesn't get Memes because they're from the current era, not from when Captain Beefheart was in the Charts.

However: "Cops are brutal and racist... but we don't need guns 'cuz we have cops" contradiction doesn't require a meme to answer.


This doesn’t make any sense. I had to google Captain Beefheart, turns out he was a decade before I was born. So he was from the time of the Simple Simon Boomers who Cuck for Trump on the interwebs, but you seemed to try and insult by association of #AltLeft, as if they are the lonely angry old has beens, that nobody gives a shit about.

Bizarro World
31 KimJongUn   2017 Oct 3, 6:46pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
Fucking White Male says
Nationwide 15 year sentence for felons in possession of guns.


I believe this is a first answer to the subj question in the whole thread of 32 messages (and counting...)
33 jazz_music   2017 Oct 3, 7:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
errc says
I had to google Captain Beefheart,


He never really charted anything either. His music was unhinged as what TwoScoopsMcGee says.
34 errc   2017 Oct 3, 7:34pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
jazz_music says
errc says
I had to google Captain Beefheart,


He never really charted anything either. His music was unhinged as what TwoScoopsMcGee says.


That’s funny I picture Thunderlips as wierd Al Yankumvitch now
35 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 3, 8:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↑ dislike (2)     quote        
Over 60% of firearms deaths in the US are suicides. I view suicide as a human right, at least for adults, so it bothers me little. Besides, Sweden, South Korea, France, Japan, etc. all have higher rates of suicide without access to firearms. Cultural.

So, of the approximately 11,000 (in 2015) of 30,000+ "Gun Deaths" that were homicides, just under 4400 were Whites of both sexes, yet 6300 were Blacks and more than 5700 were Black Males alone, with the vast majority of perpetrators also being Black. That's right, more than half of all homicides were Black.

This massive discrepancy that the AltLeft, who normally LOVES to discuss race, wishes to brush under the rug, Blacks are only 13% of the US population, and Black Males aged 18-34 are only 2.2% of the entire US population. Whites were over 75% - more than 3/4 - of the US Population. Yet Blacks were 57% of Firearm Homicides.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045216
Source:CDC

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr65/nvsr65_04.pdf
Here is a comparison of the homicide rate, mostly from a source ("Gun Violence In...") inimical to Gun Freedom, the University of Sydney's Gun Project, which proudly announces they see it only as a health issue to be reduced.



If you took away 13% of the population that represents over 57% of homicides from the equation, I'd guesstimate conservatively that US would have a firearms homicide rate (based on the source-against-interest Sydney numbers above) just above Cyprus, below Argentina, and a point or so above Israel in firearms homicide. Factoring in that at least half of all US Households own firearms, with the highest firearms ownership rate in the world (a figure nobody disputes), a firearms homicide rate of about 1.8/100k would be pretty low.

Since firearms are the preferred murder weapon (roughly 2/3) in the USA, we'd have European-level homicide rates WHILE retaining the RKBA.

The Gun Banners should start by explaining how they intend to get a Firearms Ban to stick and work effectively, given the Drug War experience - never mind the politics about realistically repealing the 2nd Amendment.

A massively disproportionate chunk of the firearm homicide problem is concentrated in the same narrow population and geographic area that is devastated by drug use with the very stringent drug laws currently in play, and the immense incentives for law enforcement to concentrate on drug interdiction and prosecution. Chicago had more homicides than LA and NYC combined, both of which individually are larger in population size than Chicago.

Trivia: What big city mayor disbanded the Police Gang Unit in 2012?
36 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 3, 8:19pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
iwog says
Your memes are shit. They are full of lies, misinformation, non-sequitur arguments, and indefensible exaggerations.


Rubbish. On this very board, those most critical of the police are also the ones most in favor of Gun Control, even though one of them is an avid critic of the Drug War who doesn't realize the same arguments - based on practical experience - would also apply to Guns. Pointing out those who put forward the PoPo as the alternative to firearms possession as the primary means of defense are the same people who are the most critical of the Police is a valid contradiction to point out. It's no different than pointing out that Feminists are the least attracted to the kind of sweetie-poo, deferential men they otherwise promote as the new preferred Man.

The "YOU can't POSSIBLY deport 11M illegals, but let's round up firearms from ~150M households, no sweat." is in a similar vein. How come you can't do the former but the latter is believed practical, knowing that most people who support one of those clauses support the other.

We need to hear how Prohibitionists intend to enforce the Gun Ban, even if it's just a Pistol ban, aside from the political practicality of getting a ban in the first place.

For example, Drugs are a huge problem in the very same areas that Gun Violence is a big problem. Yet tons of drugs are transshipped internationally on a daily basis into those areas, despite stringent laws, massive incentives for enforcement (forfeiture, auctions, equipment grants), and decades of effort. Given that tons of heroin and coke arrive daily, how are pistols that weigh several pounds going to be stopped? Pistols are so enshrined in a certain culture, possession of one is almost a right of passage, the subject of songs, and using them on enemies too, hommie.
37 iwog   2017 Oct 3, 8:30pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
Rubbish.


I'll simply ask you another simple valid question that you will refuse to answer because your entire position is built on dishonesty.

Who has a lower murder rate, Japan or Switzerland, and which nation has by far the most strict gun laws? Also why do NRA zealots find it necessary to lie in their memes?

You see when I say your side is lying, I prove it. When you say "Rubbish", you prove nothing and refuse to even discuss the topic.
38 iwog   2017 Oct 3, 8:32pm   ↑ like (0)   ↑ dislike (0)     quote        
TwoScoopsMcGee says
We need to hear how Prohibitionists intend to enforce the Gun Ban, even if it's just a Pistol ban, aside from the political practicality of getting a ban in the first place.


Who has a nationwide handgun ban seriously on the table in congress? Do you even have one name?

Right now the next legislation regarding guns will be to make silencers legal and allow Texas small-dicked little fags to have their concealed carry rights anywhere they go.

Both will probably pass.
39 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 3, 8:40pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
iwog says
I'll simply ask you another simple valid question that you will refuse to answer because your entire position is built on dishonesty.


Sigh, another dishonesty allegation from Iwog, imagine that.

iwog says
Who has a lower murder rate, Japan or Switzerland, and which nation has by far the most strict gun laws? Also why do NRA zealots find it necessary to lie in their memes?


Japan, a nation of people whose common citizenry was banned by law from possessing firearms for 1000 years and had a enshrined warrior caste, has a marginally lower murder rate than Switzerland where the citizen militia was the key line of defense for centuries, and still is.

Both have murder rates below 1 per 100,000.

Happy?

The US has 3.6 per 100,000, but half that without the concentrated violence of one minority, yet the world's largest possessor of private firearms in the world by several country miles. I believe we have around a third of all private firearms but only about 5% of the population. Given the plentiful numbers of firearms and ease of access, that rate is pretty damn low, even when including the small but very violent sub-culture.



iwog says
You see when I say your side is lying, I prove it. When you say "Rubbish", you prove nothing and refuse to even discuss the topic.

Non-sequitur. I absolutely and clearly explained why contradictory points are just as viable in text as they are presented more humorously and graphically in a meme. Those who are suspicious and very critical of the Police are also those who want us give up our traditional self-defense via firearms to depend primarily upon Cops: a valid point to explore.
40 TwoScoopsMcGee   2017 Oct 3, 8:48pm   ↑ like (1)   ↑ dislike (1)     quote        
iwog says
Who has a nationwide handgun ban seriously on the table in congress? Do you even have one name?


So you don't want to ban even handguns, Iwog?

Like I said: bypassing the practical politics, how do Gun Control advocates plan on effectively policing Pistols, if not all Firearms?

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