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So, Dems, what exactly are you hoping to get out of this in terms of gun control?

By Hassan_Rouhani following x   2017 Oct 3, 10:52am 8,275 views   126 comments   watch   sfw   quote     share    


Realistically. (No loony shit, please.)

And what would you be willing to trade for it?

I have a proposal, but I'll hold on to it for now.

UPDATE: Please refrain from virtue signalling in this thread - we have plenty of that in other threads related to LV shooting already.

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63   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 7, 6:39am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

me123 says
TwoScoopsMcGee says
So: ~ 25-30% Larger Population, more Guns per capita, yet the Homicide Rate - AND the Firearm Homicide Rate - got cut just about in half.


Ya know, you're really going to make bobby and dan cry (or go all out on personal attack and call you a liar).


God I love right wingnut math. Looks like thunderlips has been taking math lessons from cic. Perfect.

The population size is irrelevant to the per capita rate dumbasses.

Why doesn't this table match up to CICs chart? The numbers are different even though it's supposed to be from the same source. OMG if we start at 1998 The murder rate only drops 20%. Start in 1999 and it only drops 5%.

Why was the magic year 1993 chosen by the wingnut/gun nut crowd I wonder? Let's look at a little bigger time frame say 1960 on.



http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Well look at that. The murder rate tripled while the number of guns was going up up up 1960 to 1993. But but but how can that be? The murder rate only goes down when the number of guns goes up. I will be waiting for an explanation from our 2 resident math geniuses on this. Not that anyone will ever see it.

Oh my more fun facts. At this point 3% of the people own over 50% of the guns. https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/ The number of households with guns has been dropping steadily since the magic 1993 date. But but but I was told murders went down because lots of people were buying guns to protect themselves. Bullshit. The big spike in gun ownership rate is actually a small number of people buying lots and lots of guns. Again an explanation from the calculus twins would be nice, but not going to happen.



The gun industry rakes in billions while saps like cic and thunderlips defend and promote them for free. If you look around the poker table and can't find the sucker it's you.
64   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 7, 10:37am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

bob2356 says
The population size is irrelevant to the per capita rate dumbasses.


hahahahahah.

Not only did the population increase, the guns per capita in private hands increased as well.

The Gun Ownership by household contradicts manufacturer reported arms sales. However, there are more divorced female households today than before, that generally don't have firearms like married people that used to be far more common.

bob2356 says
Well look at that. The murder rate tripled while the number of guns was going up up up 1960 to 1993. But but but how can that be? The murder rate only goes down when the number of guns goes up. I will be waiting for an explanation from our 2 resident math geniuses on this. Not that anyone will ever see it.

God Bob, you're a math denialist.

Gun Ownership began exploding in the 80s in reaction the Baby-Boomer crime wave. Since the early 90s, the homicide rate has been tanking while the number of civilian firearms sold continues to grow.

Starting in the 90s, concealed firearms laws expanded, by the end of the 90s, the Assault Weapons Ban expired and was not renewed. In the late 2000s gun sales hit all-time records, there was even a .22LR shortage not long ago.

There's absolutely no doubt that the US has the most civilian firearms in the World, and that guns per capita has expanded over the past 40 years, and much of it over the past 25 years as gun laws become more permissive and SCOTUS trims excessive anti-2A laws, like in DC. And yet, our homicide is half of what it was 25 years ago.

We're #1 in the world by far for firearms ownership but nowhere near #1 in homicide.
65   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 7, 10:40am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

bob2356 says
Why was the magic year 1993 chosen by the wingnut/gun nut crowd I wonder? Let's look at a little bigger time frame say 1960 on.


Why isn't the magic years of the 2000s chosen by gun control advocates? Is it because guns became even more plentiful, Concealed Carry laws even more permissive and widespread, yet homicides collapsed?
66   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 7, 11:26am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
bob2356 says
The population size is irrelevant to the per capita rate dumbasses.


hahahahahah.

Not only did the population increase, the guns per capita in private hands increased as well.

The Gun Ownership by household contradicts manufacturer reported arms sales. However, there are more divorced female households today than before, that generally don't have firearms like married people that used to be far more common.


Like I said the population increase is irrelevant to the per capita number. It's not a hard concept to grasp. Get another math lesson from CIC and I'm sure you will have it. Math concept that is beyond you number 2 is that the number of households can decrease while the guns per capita increases. It means fewer people are buying guns but buying more of them. This stuff really isn't hard. What is it about rate changes that is simply impossible for you and CIC to grasp.
67   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 7, 11:33am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
Gun Ownership began exploding in the 80s in reaction the Baby-Boomer crime wave. Since the early 90s, the homicide rate has been tanking while the number of civilian firearms sold continues to grow.

Starting in the 90s, concealed firearms laws expanded, by the end of the 90s, the Assault Weapons Ban expired and was not renewed. In the late 2000s gun sales hit all-time records, there was even a .22LR shortage not long ago.

There's absolutely no doubt that the US has the most civilian firearms in the World, and that guns per capita has expanded over the past 40 years, and much of it over the past 25 years as gun laws become more permissive and SCOTUS trims excessive anti-2A laws, like in DC. And yet, our homicide is half of what it was 25 years ago.

We're #1 in the world by far for firearms ownership but nowhere near #1 in homicide.


Show me where gun ownership exploded in the 80's. It's not in any of the charts anyone has posted. The charts show a nice steady climb. Lie number 1.
Show me where the assault ban made any difference in gun ownership rates. Lie number 2.

Let's summarize here. Guns sales and ownership rates have climbed steadily since the 40's. From the 60's to 1993 murder rates tripled. From 1993 to 2015 murder rates dropped by 50%. In your pink sky world that represent a correlation between gun ownership rates and murder rates. HaHaHaHaHa.
68   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 7, 11:43am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
bob2356 says
Why was the magic year 1993 chosen by the wingnut/gun nut crowd I wonder? Let's look at a little bigger time frame say 1960 on.


Why isn't the magic years of the 2000s chosen by gun control advocates? Is it because guns became even more plentiful, Concealed Carry laws even more permissive and widespread, yet homicides collapsed?


Murder rates went for 3.6 to 3.4 in the 2000's. A 5% decrease. This is your idea of collapsed? HaHaHaHa times 2. Go ahead, provide any evidence of any kind correlating concealed carry permits with the homicide rates. Grasping for anything at this point aren't you?

I don't favor gun control. Find anywhere I've posted in favor of gun control I just don't favor bullshit in defence of gun ownership. The only gun control I want is tracking of exactly were guns go from legal owner to a criminal. Then put the person who sold a gun to a criminal in jail. Why would any responsible gun owner (like CIC alleges he is) be opposed to that.? Any reason at that you can think of? Why would you oppose it?

Don't even bother to post the tired bullshit that criminals steal guns. It would just prove once again you have no credibility of any kind.
69   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 7, 1:01pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

BOOM.

.

That's growth. Here's the estimated number:


Tracking sales using Federal Background Checks:


How's that Homicide Rate doin' in comparison? In must be exploding with all these arms sales.


What would really be beneficial is if we could fix 60% of Homicides that are caused by 13% of the population, by getting that 13% closer to the homicide rate of the other 87%

Here's Gallup's Poll of Households... in contrast to the other one favored by the anti-2A Fake News:


No big moves here.

How is the Authoritarian Left doing convincing people guns are the problem?
70   MrMagic   ignore (9)   2017 Oct 7, 1:18pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
The Gun Ownership by household contradicts manufacturer reported arms sales.


Exactly, bobby thinks his chart of ownership is accurate, like people tell Gallup when they call how many guns they own.
71   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 7, 1:20pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Notice no Leftie has dared offer an opinion on HOW to effectively ban firearms, because they know short of warantless house-to-house searches, they really don't have any feasible solution.

And those most likely to voluntarily cooperate are also the least likely to have committed violent crime with those arms.

Don't expect the Jamals, Leroys, and Shaquans who commit 57% of the homicides in the US, to be lining up at 6AM the freezing Chicago morning of January 2nd of the year the law is effective to turn in their mostly stolen or black market .25 Autos and .38 Snub-Noses at the local Chicago PD Station.
72   MrMagic   ignore (9)   2017 Oct 7, 1:30pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
BOOM


Very nice job with those charts and data. Sadly bobby still won't understand.
73   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 7, 2:07pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says

How's that Homicide Rate doin' in comparison? In must be exploding with all these arms sales.


You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993. Gun sales go up, murders go up. Then gun sales go up, murders go down. Thunderlips says this is correlation. gallup poll more accurate? (the same gallup poll you called fake news so often, that gallup poll? but wait CIC says people lie to gallup. you guys really need to get the same page). Weasel much? What happened to you calling a 5% drop in murder rate a collapse? Crickets chirping on that one. Yearly growth? The yearly growth didn't pick up until 2010 which is 10 years after the murder rate dropped. Estimated by NCIS checks? Doesn't go up until 2008, 8 years after the murder rate drops. This is correlation somehow? You guys really are a joke

me123 says
please post the chart that shows how many legal gun owners are selling their guns to criminals.


Been posted time and time again. Been proven time and time again. You have forgotten time and time again. You will certainly be waiting a very long time if you can't remember anything. Sorry but there is nothing I can do about your Alzheimers getting worse and worse. The phrase you really need to know at this point is geriatric specialist.
74   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 8, 4:30am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

me123 says
bob2356 says
You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993. Gun sales go up, murders go up. Then gun sales go up, murders go down.


Oh bobby, so sad. Here's a hint, gun sales go up EVERY year and that adds to the cumulative total owned, which means more total available, and many of the past years have seen record additional sales annually. THE number of actual people killed annually has gone DOWN. What don't you understand about that data?
f

So sad. The number of actual people killed annually actually went UP for 25 years while gun sales went up EVERY year before the number of people killed annually started going down. What don't you understand about that data? Are the gun/god nuts now claiming the guns and gun murders didn't exist before 1993?

me123 says
but prove me wrong by reposting it.


Why bother you won't remember it tomorrow or even a couple hours from now.
75   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 8, 10:53am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

murder is illegal
mass shootings are illegal
machine guns are illegal

What else should we make illegal that will cause criminals to suddenly care about laws? That's a thing about the left, they mastered the skill of ignoring reality long ago. Only know how to pound their chests and make demands, but can never get anything figured out or done.
76   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 8, 1:55pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

bob2356 says

You are correct. Homicide rate exploded with all the arms sales 1970 to 1993

You have a chart for that? I don't. Only since 1986. Gun sale growth went up in the last few years of the homicide rate increase; the homicide rate nationally began increasing in the late 1960s.

The more Guns = more homicides is completely wrong for this century, especially.

What else happened in the 60s that might have led to more homicide?
77   TwoScoopsOfWompWomp   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 8, 2:14pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

Still no specifics from the Anti-2A crowd on how they would restrict firearms effectively.
78   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 8, 3:06pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
You have a chart for that? I don't. Only since 1986. Gun sale growth went up in the last few years of the homicide rate increase; the homicide rate nationally began increasing in the late 1960s.


You posted the chart of murders from 1960 on for christ sakes. Don't you know what you've posted? I posted the data also but in a list. Here is is again. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm . Murders tripled 1960 to 1993. Go look.Or look at your own frigging chart. The chart of the number of guns in the us since 1942 is already posted also. The number of guns went up up up during the period as did murders. Which makes you and dimbulbs claim that an increasing number guns drives down the murders total bullshit.

There was a small blip in 92/93 of less than 2 million new guns a year above the previous years added to the 250 million guns already in circulation at the time. Are you seriously suggesting that additional gun sales of 0.8% a year for a couple years drove the murder rate down? You want to ride that horse? Really? I know you guys absolutely suck at math but that's beyond absurd. Besides the murder rate was already decreasing by then. Gun sales actually started spiking in 2009-2010, 10 years after the murder rate flat lined. This is all from your own charts, don't you look at them?

Give it up, there is no way to support this turkey.
79   MrMagic   ignore (9)   2017 Oct 8, 8:06pm   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

me123 says
me123 says
please post the chart that shows how many legal gun owners are selling their guns to criminals.


Hey bobby boy, got that chart yet?
80   FortWayne   ignore (2)   2017 Oct 8, 8:23pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Democrats just want to use this tragedy for personal political gain of some sort. Nothing else to it, everything else is story for the gullible supporters of the Democratic party.
81   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 8, 8:37pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says

There is NO link between the increasing prevalence of firearms and the decreasing homicide rate.


Then why did you claim there was a link for so long? I was beginning to think you were the poster boy for the failings of the american educational system. Can you let ironman know this now?

TwoScoopsMcGee says

Bob, do you want more gun restrictions?


No I don't want more gun restrictions. Depending on what you define as restriction. But I don't want this bullshit about increasing numbers of guns reducing the murder rate used as a wedge for the NRA to destroy any type of rational rules about gun ownership. Look at Wisconsin. They proposed carry with the stipulation of needing to take a class. The NRA (aka the gun manufacturers) went apeshit and carpet bombed the state with a blitz of propaganda about how having to take a class was dismantling the second amendment. Absurd.

What I do want is to track guns. Strawmen buyers are providing criminals with the majority of their guns. They should be in jail as should the legit gun owner who sold a gun to them no questions asked. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html You and ironman can look up many more articles and studies that say the same thing. There is this really cool new program called google.com. Check it out. Just type where do criminals get their guns and lots of stuff to read comes up. Really it's true.
83   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Oct 11, 9:09am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

My house is gun free as well, and I guarantee if one of you sissy fucking Betas came around here looking for shit, you’d get tossed out on your ass with a mouthful. That sign is dumb.
84   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2017 Oct 11, 11:49am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

If all of us and our wives were sitting in our parlors and kitchens with a can of Jack Daniels behind M134 through the night and into the dawn, crime would disappear overnight.

The only things that separate us from perfect tranquility is belt-fed ordnance and the will to be fucking fatal at all times, for any reason or no reason, exactly as the Founding Fathers commanded.
85   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 11:55am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (2)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
But yeah, I'm a brain damaged liar who denies the reality that Democrats don't want to ban guns.


Yes, God forbid that a hunter can't go out and kill a deer with an assault rifle. Just how the Founding Fathers intended.
86   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2017 Oct 11, 12:04pm   ↑ like (3)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The Founding Fathers demanded we take out deer and tyrannical advocates of flu vaccines with RPGs and tactical nukes.

Everyone knows that.
87   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 2:13pm   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

me123 says
What exactly is a "assault rifle"? Can you explain what it is for me?


There is no set definition per se. Congress defined it in the 1994 ban as this:



Others have other definitions such as this:

"The technical definition of an assault rifle consists of four requirements:
1 It is a shoulder mounted weapon
2. It is magazine fed.
3. It is intermediate power.
4. It is selective fire."

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-definition-of-assault-rifle
88   jazz_music   ignore (4)   2017 Oct 11, 3:56pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

I never owned a rifle until a couple years ago. I shot other people's rifles, better than mine too. I always had an ACP or two for home protection and fun plinking on rare occasion. Probably a 38 revolver would have been a more optimal choice. --so simple! My brother always had more guns and I would sometimes tag along with him.

I got a really cheap AR-15 new at a gun show from a dealer who assembles parts and sells. Extra magazines, padded stock, lanyard for carrying hands-free, iron sites and red dot site. I nice canvas bag to hold most of the stuff and a cleaning kit. I returned the high-powered scope I bought because someone convinced me that my barrel is not that good so it makes no sense.

It seems like a lot of crap but it was very cost effective. I could even go and buy a better barrel for it if the standard one proves to be too bad. I think AR-15's are cool: All this modular design makes it versatile, easy to clean, lubricate and upgrade. As a toy I have thought of getting the bump-stock but I don't really care to have such a "bullet-wasting testosterone demonstration unit." --bang bang wahoo, fuck all that, there's more important things to do.

Only problem is I just assembled, cleaned and lubricated the whole thing and there it sits. Never been shot. I just don't care about guns that much to go out and bang bang wahoo! --I realize that I should get acquainted with the weapon anyways and make adjustments, and then clean and lube again.

If we lose civil society after the next black swan event or tax cut, I am more or less all set to ward off home invaders, maybe shoot animals for dinner, but I would have to learn how to strip down a carcass, I know my wife isn't going to touch that kind of work, so I better go get a better hunting knife too just in case. --more crap I don't really want.

A neighbor came into my place looking for his girlfriend, then kneeled down and shot himself in the head with a 357 magnum revolver in front of everybody one time 35 years ago.

Just sayin'

Yeah, fear of restrictive laws influenced my decision to buy the AR-15.

Fear fear fear, welcome to America!
89   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 6:26pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

TwoScoopsMcGee says
How about the 2016 Dem platform?
"To build on the success of the lifesaving Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act, we will expand and strengthen background checks and close dangerous loopholes in our current laws; repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) to revoke the dangerous legal immunity protections gun makers and sellers now enjoy; and keep weapons of war—such as assault weapons and large capacity ammunition magazines (LCAM's)—off our streets."

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf (Page 39)
When the Assault Rifle ban expired, did the homicide rate go up or down?

But yeah, I'm a brain damaged liar who denies the reality that Democrats don't want to ban guns.


Waw, waw, waw. Those bad democrats want to ban ar-15's and ak-47's. That's awful. They are such great hunting rifles. Plus, how can I hunt deer without a 30 round clip and bump stock? Dont' forget a silencer, wouldn't want hearing damage.

It's good that you recognize you are a brain damaged liar. Admitting to a problem is the first step to a cure.
90   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Oct 11, 6:59pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

The same way they were banned in the past. You make a definition when you write the law.
91   anonymous   ignore (null)   2017 Oct 11, 8:36pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

There are intelligent right wingers out there. .But they are mighty dishonest too, if they thought Trump was a safer bet than Clinton.
92   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 11, 8:45pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

me123 says

As an aside, an”assault weapon” is a phrase made up by the anti-gun crowd to confuse the issue of what a weapon actually is.


Pretty amazing that the federal government was able to have an assault weapon ban when cic says there isn't any assault weapons. How did they do that?
93   bob2356   ignore (1)   2017 Oct 12, 5:08am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

me123 says
bob2356 says
me123 says

As an aside, an”assault weapon” is a phrase made up by the anti-gun crowd to confuse the issue of what a weapon actually is.


Pretty amazing that the federal government was able to have an assault weapon ban when cic says there isn't any assault weapons. How did they do that?


and did you see the YYUUGGEE number of decreased homicides because of it. Worked well, didn't it?


So now you are saying there is such a thing as an assault weapon. First there isn't now there is.
96   Rew   ignore (0)   2017 Oct 24, 10:49pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

To OP ... seems very clear what the majority of the population is asking for:
http://news.gallup.com/poll/220637/americans-widely-support-tighter-regulations-gun-sales.aspx
99   joeyjojojunior   ignore (1)   2017 Nov 6, 10:46am   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (1)   quote        

It's pretty simple zzyyxx:

Dems want to close the loopholes by which such shooters can very easily obtain guns.
100   APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch   ignore (32)   2017 Nov 6, 10:50am   ↑ like (2)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Open carry should be mandatory for everyone over the age of 3 or younger if the CITIZEN! can lift M134.
101   Hassan_Rouhani   ignore (3)   2017 Nov 6, 11:00am   ↑ like (1)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

Rew says
To OP ... seems very clear what the majority of the population is asking for:
http://news.gallup.com/poll/220637/americans-widely-support-tighter-regulations-gun-sales.aspx


Finally a semblance of a wishlist.

Now, to the second part: what are you going to offer in return? How about national shall-issue CCW permits in exchange for #1 on the list?
102   MrMagic   ignore (9)   2017 Nov 6, 12:02pm   ↑ like (0)   ↓ dislike (0)   quote        

joeyjojojunior says
It's pretty simple zzyyxx:

Dems want to close the loopholes by which such shooters can very easily obtain guns.


So tell us, Joey, where did this guy buy his evil "assault weapon"?

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